Rumor: 2022-2023 Free Agency and Trade Rumors: STILL searching for a 2C

[henchman21]

Agreed but I think this roster falls into that category. I also think in general it's rare/hard to win a cup and you likely need all the required pieces combined with some luck. If the Avs added say Henrique/a good scoring 3rd line winger than if they managed to stay reasonable healthy I think we have the star power/defense to potentially win a cup if things go right and we the needed luck. Just won't be like last year where we were still beating teams deep into the playoffs with JTC at 2C and dominating them with Kadri.

I think if you add a fringe 2C + another decent player than the Avs will have like the 3rd-6th best odds at the cup assuming were relatively healthy which seems like a pipedream at this point.

Personally I don’t see how you think this team is that deep with the 5v5 play they’ve shown this year.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Agreed but I think this roster falls into that category. I also think in general it's rare/hard to win a cup and you likely need all the required pieces combined with some luck. If the Avs added say Henrique/a good scoring 3rd line winger than if they managed to stay reasonable healthy I think we have the star power/defense to potentially win a cup if things go right and we the needed luck. Just won't be like last year where we were still beating teams deep into the playoffs with JTC at 2C and dominating them with Kadri.

I think if you add a fringe 2C + another decent player than the Avs will have like the 3rd-6th best odds at the cup assuming were relatively healthy which seems like a pipedream at this point.

The roster last year I'd agree that an average 2C would've been fine. But this teams depth is pretty awful this year, an average 2C doesn't move the needle as much.

 

[ANewHope]

Personally I don’t see how you think this team is that deep with the 5v5 play they’ve shown this year.

You'd be adding say Hayes + Landeskog/another 3rd liner in this situation so right away that pushes multiple guys down the lineup. You'd also have the defense playing together which hasn't happened often. I'd guess that would improve the 5 vs 5 play. Just speculation on my part but I think for chunks of the year there's absolutely been a cup hangover and IMO I think certain players will look better come playoff time.

When this team is healthy I think there missing a 2C/probably another 3rd line scoring winger. The quality of those pieces determine just how much luck you'd need. You get a Henrique/ROR/Toews and your hoping for some serious luck and your on the bottom end of contending in the West. You get a Hayes/Jenner and I think your odds are much better.

Montreal/Dallas have literally made the finals in recent years. Tampa got smoked by Columbus. Toronto/Florida disappoint every year and the Avs were similar before last season. It's not a science but a healthy Avs team + 2 solid additions absolutely has potential to make noise.

Also think Georgiev is a massive X-Factor. If he plays well and gives you better goaltending than Kuemper that'll be a big win and can offset some things. If he falls apart than yeah unless you grab Larkin this team isn't overcoming what Keumper did in the playoffs last year.

 

[BobRossColton]

How about picking up both Domi+Lafferty? Just build up our middle six.

 

[ANewHope]

The roster last year I'd agree that an average 2C would've been fine. But this teams depth is pretty awful this year, an average 2C doesn't move the needle as much.

Depth looks alot worse due to the injuries I think. If you add Landy and he can get back to 80% of what he was last year + 2 deadline players than all of a sudden the depth isn't that bad offensively and the defense is still the defense.

Honestly the biggest thing is the injuries. Who knows what the injuries will look like. If Nuke looks like this Nuke all year, Landy comes back nowhere close to what he was, Byram pulls a Byram, and you add a Makar setback and than forget winning a cup your just hoping you didn't give away a lottery pick at the deadline.

 

[Avsboy]

He who shall not be named has the Avs in on Bonino since Monahan is still out. Bonino is another player I put in the washed category, but whatever I guess.

Thought you meant Dater

 

[Pokecheque]

Can't speak for others but I think it's because you don't need a legit 2C to have a chance at a cup with this roster IMO. Like yeah that would be ideal and if you got one you become the run away favorites in the West again but it's not just not realistic. I accepted the days of domination were done last year .. were not going to waltz to a cup with zero worry of losing. You won't win a cup losing 4 games. We'd need to add a Larkin/Barza/Petey etc. for that to happen and it's not realistic at all.

If the Avs can get healthy and can get someone who can be potentially serviceable at 2C with our wingers like Henrique/Hayes than I think they'll have a good shot to win the West again. Even guys like Toews/ROR if they could turn back the clock abit.

To me the biggest question mark will be health. Byram is Byram, who knows what Landeskog looks like, and Nuke likely won't look right the rest of the season/playoffs and that's far more concerning. We can add a Henrique/try and get another depth winger .. but won't mean much if the roster can't stay healthy.

To paraphrase Henchy, you can get away with a low-end 2C if you have a high end 3C. JTC has been pretty remarkable this season but he’s not that. Guys like Bonino (back in his PIT days), Eller, and Gourde fit that bill. If the Avs settle for the lower-tier 2C, a lot will have to go right in order for them to have a long playoff run.

 

[shadow1]

How about picking up both Domi+Lafferty? Just build up our middle six.

Personally don't want Domi, but I think Chicago could get a decent amount for Lafferty and Raddysh (both of whom are signed next season too).

 

[Azrael89]

Thought you meant Dater

Other one. Eklund. Lol

 

[henchman21]

You'd be adding say Hayes + Landeskog/another 3rd liner in this situation so right away that pushes multiple guys down the lineup. You'd also have the defense playing together which hasn't happened often. I'd guess that would improve the 5 vs 5 play. Just speculation on my part but I think for chunks of the year there's absolutely been a cup hangover and IMO I think certain players will look better come playoff time.

When this team is healthy I think there missing a 2C/probably another 3rd line scoring winger. The quality of those pieces determine just how much luck you'd need. You get a Henrique/ROR/Toews and your hoping for some serious luck and your on the bottom end of contending in the West. You get a Hayes/Jenner and I think your odds are much better.

Montreal/Dallas have literally made the finals in recent years. Tampa got smoked by Columbus. Toronto/Florida disappoint every year and the Avs were similar before last season. It's not a science but a healthy Avs team + 2 solid additions absolutely has potential to make noise.

Also think Georgiev is a massive X-Factor. If he plays well and gives you better goaltending than Kuemper that'll be a big win and can offset some things. If he falls apart than yeah unless you grab Larkin this team isn't overcoming what Keumper did in the playoffs last year.

We tend to go round and round on things, so I’ll keep this short. We don’t really agree (and that’s fine). This team looks real bad 5v5 that needs to get fixed. They aren’t just below average, they verge on bad. It’ll take some really good pieces. Add to that, health is something that is unlikely this year.

IMO Avs need a good 2C (I love Hayes and he may not be enough), middle 6 winger who can score goals at a good clip (a legit 20-25g guy), complete health, and goaltending to hold up. That’s a lot of things to go right and even then, it may not be enough.

I’ll add that even if you can’t get it perfect, they need to still push. There isn’t enough cap space in the future and time is not on the Avs side. Imperfect and better is better than just giving in.

 

[nammerus]

Depth looks alot worse due to the injuries I think. If you add Landy and he can get back to 80% of what he was last year + 2 deadline players than all of a sudden the depth isn't that bad offensively and the defense is still the defense.

Honestly the biggest thing is the injuries. Who knows what the injuries will look like. If Nuke looks like this Nuke all year, Landy comes back nowhere close to what he was, Byram pulls a Byram, and you add a Makar setback and than forget winning a cup your just hoping you didn't give away a lottery pick at the deadline.

This team is 28th in the league for 5v5 goals. I don't think you understand how awful that is. They're around some teams that are actively tanking with rosters significantly worse then the Avs even with all the injuries. Landy coming back will not fix that, despite what some of the starry-eyed fans like to think.

 

[ANewHope]

This team is 28th in the league for 5v5 goals. I don't think you understand how awful that is. They're around some teams that are actively tanking with rosters significantly worse then the Avs even with all the injuries. Landy coming back will not fix that, despite what some of the starry-eyed fans like to think.

Where did I say just Landy tho? .. Landeskog/fringe 2C/3rd liner. That pushes down 3 players. That completely changes the depth of this team. Especially considering the entire conversation was based on the team being healthy which for most of the season hasn't been the case and has absolutely affected the numbers. Your basically talking about an entire line + a healthier roster.

 

[shadow1]

This team is 28th in the league for 5v5 goals. I don't think you understand how awful that is. They're around some teams that are actively tanking with rosters significantly worse then the Avs even with all the injuries. Landy coming back will not fix that, despite what some of the starry-eyed fans like to think.

That ranking is a bit skewed by injuries.

Not saying the Avalanche don't have 5v5 issues, but since 1/1/23 the team is 14th in 5v5 goals with 40 (in 18 GP). For sake of comparison, Tampa Bay is 5th with 44 in that same time period (in 19 GP).

In other words, aside from Seattle (and somewhat Florida) who are way better than everyone else at even strength, Colorado has been right in there in terms of even strength production for the better part of two months. I think Landeskog and any deadline additions would definitely make a sizable impact.

 

[ANewHope]

To paraphrase Henchy, you can get away with a low-end 2C if you have a high end 3C. JTC has been pretty remarkable this season but he’s not that. Guys like Bonino (back in his PIT days), Eller, and Gourde fit that bill. If the Avs settle for the lower-tier 2C, a lot will have to go right in order for them to have a long playoff run.

I mean we literally just won a cup with JTC filling in for Kadri deep into the playoffs. We didn't just win a cup either we basically bulldozed are way there. I'm not talking about winning like that. You'd obviously need to upset somebody in the East combined with actually starting the playoffs in round 1 and having a dogfight in the conference finals.

Yeah alot has to go right for any team. It's the playoffs. Which is why teams like Florida/Toronto constantly disappoint. It's why teams like Dallas/Montreal make the finals when Colorado couldn't get out of the 2nd round with a loaded roster. If you added Hayes/Gourde to the roster I'm not sure a sports book would exist that didn't have Colorado as the favorites to win the West .. with ease. That's just not realistic.

 

[ANewHope]

Add to that, health is something that is unlikely this year.

This I can agree with and makes me nervous about moving the 1st. Obviously injuries happen and guys get banged but for the sake of this argument I'm assuming we get a somewhat healthy roster and guys like Nuke/Landy look even 80% close to what they did last year because if they don't than obviously than changes things and likely doesn't matter what we do at the deadline. If Byram goes down again or Makar has a setback than the 2C won't really matter because were not going deep anyways.

 

[Pokecheque]

I mean we literally just won a cup with JTC filling in for Kadri deep into the playoffs. We didn't just win a cup either we basically bulldozed are way there. I'm not talking about winning like that. You'd obviously need to upset somebody in the East combined with actually starting the playoffs in round 1 and having a dogfight in the conference finals.

Yeah alot has to go right for any team. It's the playoffs. Which is why teams like Florida/Toronto constantly disappoint. It's why teams like Dallas/Montreal make the finals when Colorado couldn't get out of the 2nd round with a loaded roster. If you added Hayes/Gourde to the roster I'm not sure a sports book would exist that didn't have Colorado as the favorites to win the West .. with ease. That's just not realistic.

You make it sound like JTC filled in for Naz for a huge number of games when that wasn’t the case at all. He missed games 3 and 4 of the WCF, and the first four games of the Final. He promptly returned and literally scored the game-winning OT goal in his first game back.

 

[nammerus]

That ranking is a bit skewed by injuries.

Not saying the Avalanche don't have 5v5 issues, but since 1/1/23 the team is 14th in 5v5 goals with 40 (in 18 GP). For sake of comparison, Tampa Bay is 5th with 44 in that same time period (in 19 GP).

In other words, aside from Seattle (and somewhat Florida) who are way better than everyone else at even strength, Colorado has been right in there in terms of even strength production for the better part of two months. I think Landeskog and any deadline additions would definitely make a sizable impact.

During that period, they're also 18th in CF%, 19th in xGF%, and 25th in HDCF% (Tampa's respectively 13th in CF%, 14th in xGF%, and 6th in HDCF% during that time period). They've been a terrible team 5v5 any way you look at it, during any time period. They haven't been able to drive play or possession, and when they've had chances, they're well below average in quality. A streak of playing mediocre teams with middling goaltending to pad their raw 5v5 stats doesn't really change it.

Will Landy make a difference? Sure, he's awesome. But no one outside of possibly McDavid can bridge the giant chasm between what the Avs can do 5v5 offensively vs. the true contenders.

 

[ANewHope]

You make it sound like JTC filled in for Naz for a huge number of games when that wasn’t the case at all. He missed games 3 and 4 of the WCF, and the first four games of the Final. He promptly returned and literally scored the game-winning OT goal in his first game back.

I'm not at all I just said we won a cup with JTC filling in for Kadri deep into the playoffs which is just what happened. I wouldn't call 5 games out of 20 insignificant tho and I think between last years playoffs/this year I think you can say as of right now JTC is a really good 3rd liner. I say that as someone who use to shit on him all the time.

If the Avs added basically an entirely new line with a 2C, Landy, solid 3rd liner .. JTC would be perfectly fine in that role if he keeps up how he's been playing lately. Yeah we won't destroy the West but it's certainly within reach.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

You make it sound like JTC filled in for Naz for a huge number of games when that wasn’t the case at all. He missed games 3 and 4 of the WCF, and the first four games of the Final. He promptly returned and literally scored the game-winning OT goal in his first game back.

You might as well add game #2 of the WCF. He got hurt right at the beginning of the game. So total that's 7 of the 20 games we played. That is a pretty good number of games. Not that I agree we should just go with JTC. Just like everybody else I would love a real 2C.

 

[The Merchant]

Cross another one off the list.

 

[Muffin]

Cross another one off the list.

So much for ROR not costing a 1st...

 

[Avs_19]

Didn’t want him anyways.

That’s a pretty good deal for the BLose.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

The Blues are going to end up with 4-5 1sts in a deep draft aren’t they?

 

[dahrougem2]

Looks like three picks for O'Reilly and one for Acciari to me.



Abramov stinks and Gaudette is a minor leaguer.

 

[The Merchant]

Wow Minny ate that contract