2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Brian39]

It's an ESPN interview with Army. He sounds okay with "taking a step back to take 2 forward", but a full rebuild isn't in his plans at all. I think he used a similar phrase when describing the Stastny trade a few years ago.

That is almost exactly the language used when he talked about moving on from Backes, Brouwer and Elliott in 2016 to turn the group over to the newer/younger core.

“Can they do it in September? Or does it take them a year? There’s certainly a faith that over time, they’re going to pick it up without any issue. Obviously you want them to pick it up as quickly as possible. We don’t want to take any backwards movement in our organization. But sometimes you do expose yourself to maybe taking half a step back to take a couple steps forward."

My memory tells me that he used similar (or the same) language between then and the summer of 2018 whenever he would discuss not doing a full rebuild, but I can't find any articles about it (him using the language now means most the google results are skewed toward his recent comments). Maybe I've just attributed that single quote to his actions over those years because his moves matched a retool rather than a rebuild.

I'm not surprised that he doesn't intend to do a full tear-it-down rebuild. On-ice strategy aside, I'm not convinced that this market can put 12,000+ fans a night into the Enterprise Center through 4-5 years of bottom 5-10 finishes. And I think that Thomas, Kyrou, Faulk, Parayko, Neighbours, Snugg, and Bolduc is a good enough group to choose retool instead of a full blown rebuild.

 

[bleedblue1223]

That is almost exactly the language used when he talked about moving on from Backes, Brouwer and Elliott in 2016 to turn the group over to the newer/younger core.

“Can they do it in September? Or does it take them a year? There’s certainly a faith that over time, they’re going to pick it up without any issue. Obviously you want them to pick it up as quickly as possible. We don’t want to take any backwards movement in our organization. But sometimes you do expose yourself to maybe taking half a step back to take a couple steps forward."

My memory tells me that he used similar (or the same) language between then and the summer of 2018 whenever he would discuss not doing a full rebuild, but I can't find any articles about it (him using the language now means most the google results are skewed toward his recent comments). Maybe I've just attributed that single quote to his actions over those years because his moves matched a retool rather than a rebuild.

I'm not surprised that he doesn't intend to do a full tear-it-down rebuild. On-ice strategy aside, I'm not convinced that this market can put 12,000+ fans a night into the Enterprise Center through 4-5 years of bottom 5-10 finishes. And I think that Thomas, Kyrou, Faulk, Parayko, Neighbours, Snugg, and Bolduc is a good enough group to choose retool instead of a full blown rebuild.

And ultimately, we are not bad enough to do a full rebuild. We have enough talent, where we'll never be able to out tank the true tankers, and talent that would either be stupid to move, just to tank, or talent that would be pretty difficult to move. And you can't really do a full rebuild picking around 10 every year for 3-4 years. Make some smart moves along the way and hope our scouts out draft our positions, and our picks in the 10-20 range end up like top 10 picks, which is pretty reasonable.

We basically need the 20-23 drafts to be like our 16-17 drafts at the top. In the 16 and 17 drafts, 3 of our 4 picks are producing like a top 10 pick, Thompson isn't with us, but he netted us O'Reilly. If we can hit 50%+ Neighbours, Bolduc, Snuggerud, and whoever we get this year, we'll be in good shape. Even if they aren't all top 10 like producers, but we have the potential for a good top 6 that we can build around. If just one of the guys we already drafted can develop into a 1st line talent and mesh with Thomas and Kyrou, then we are golden.

 

[bleedblue1223]

The one move that can really make a successful re-tool, is finding that right, cheap LHD. If we can acquire a partner for Faulk that forces Krug to the 3rd pair permanently, that'll go a long way in getting us back on track. I'm not sure if that means a youngish player/prospect, or someone that is just under appreciated. It's finding that Devon Toews that Colorado acquired. The defenseman version of Brayden Schenn. Or a prospect that for one reason or another isn't getting a chance, Siegenthaler is probably the example for that type.

 

[ValHaller]

I looked up Parayko's stat line and it hadn't quite dawned on me just how terrible he's been until I saw that he has 3 points in 19 games and is pacing for 13 points over an 82 game season (he's going to have fewer games).

 

[bleedblue1223]

His on ice shooting % is 5.4, and his career average is 9.8, so part of it is just the forwards in front of him aren't producing, as I imagine he's mostly with O'Reilly's line which was a blackhole offensively.

The Leddy/Parayko pair have an xGF of 11.69 during 5v5, but only 6 actual goals scored. Their play has been better than the end production.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

That is almost exactly the language used when he talked about moving on from Backes, Brouwer and Elliott in 2016 to turn the group over to the newer/younger core.

“Can they do it in September? Or does it take them a year? There’s certainly a faith that over time, they’re going to pick it up without any issue. Obviously you want them to pick it up as quickly as possible. We don’t want to take any backwards movement in our organization. But sometimes you do expose yourself to maybe taking half a step back to take a couple steps forward."

My memory tells me that he used similar (or the same) language between then and the summer of 2018 whenever he would discuss not doing a full rebuild, but I can't find any articles about it (him using the language now means most the google results are skewed toward his recent comments). Maybe I've just attributed that single quote to his actions over those years because his moves matched a retool rather than a rebuild.

I'm not surprised that he doesn't intend to do a full tear-it-down rebuild. On-ice strategy aside, I'm not convinced that this market can put 12,000+ fans a night into the Enterprise Center through 4-5 years of bottom 5-10 finishes. And I think that Thomas, Kyrou, Faulk, Parayko, Neighbours, Snugg, and Bolduc is a good enough group to choose retool instead of a full blown rebuild.

While I generally agree, I'd still like to see what Parayko could bring. He is super good in certain areas and limited in others and is under contract for a long, long, long time. When our new core is otherwise looking ready to contend in 2-4 years, is Parayko going to be asset to us or a liability?

Edit: to expand on this, Faulk and Schenn likely won't be as good in 3 years as they are today but seem like with their diverse skills they can play supporting roles as grizzly vets (and their contracts run out in '27 and '28 respectively). Parayko has 7 years remaining after this and if he loses his mobility he becomes big guy with limited puck skills owed boatload of money.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

While I generally agree, I'd still like to see what Parayko could bring. He is super good in certain areas and limited in others and is under contract for a long, long, long time. When our new core is otherwise looking ready to contend in 2-4 years, is Parayko going to be asset to us or a liability?

Edit: to expand on this, Faulk and Schenn likely won't be as good in 3 years as they are today but seem like with their diverse skills they can play supporting roles as grizzly vets (and their contracts run out in '27 and '28 respectively). Parayko has 7 years remaining after this and if he loses his mobility he becomes big guy with limited puck skills owed boatload of money.

IF that were to happen, you'd hope he'd adust his game accordingly. he has the frame to do that and still be effective.. and while I know I know.. he's not Pronger or Stevens physical, he HAS been more physical this year than some folks are willing to give him credit for

that being said for a rebuild, I just don't see this ownership doing that. I seem them staying as competitive as they can. 1) it's just seems to be in their DNA and 2) the team needs the revenue a competitive team provides.

yes, the ownership group is billionaires.. but so was Purina (well.. very deep pockets at least) and they tired of constantly being in the red. nobody likes losing money.. especially lots of it

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

I looked up Parayko's stat line and it hadn't quite dawned on me just how terrible he's been until I saw that he has 3 points in 19 games and is pacing for 13 points over an 82 game season (he's going to have fewer games).

He's not on the team to produce offense, no matter how many people fantasized about him being MacInnis-like as a rookie. His offensive production, whether high or low, should not be the basis of him being terrible or not. Nearly 70% of of his zone starts are in the defensive zone, compared to Faulk and Krug that start a majority in the offensive zone. Parayko has had his mistakes, I but feel he's underappreciate considering his usage and performance against top lines.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

IF that were to happen, you'd hope he'd adust his game accordingly. he has the frame to do that and still be effective.. and while I know I know.. he's not Pronger or Stevens physical, he HAS been more physical this year than some folks are willing to give him credit for

that being said for a rebuild, I just don't see this ownership doing that. I seem them staying as competitive as they can. 1) it's just seems to be in their DNA and 2) the team needs the revenue a competitive team provides.

yes, the ownership group is billionaires.. but so was Purina (well.. very deep pockets at least) and they tired of constantly being in the red. nobody likes losing money.. especially lots of it

He would likely adjust his game, but it's not likely he is going to gain puck sense or become great passer.

And as to a rebuild, or whatever you want to call it, one is coming. Soon. As Army says, sometimes need to take 1 step back for 2 forward. With ROR and Tank both in walk year and at least 1 (and likely both) not coming back, next year is our step back. What we don't want is for it to be 5 years, but even someone as optimistic as I doesn't see a likely path that we are contenders next year. The following year feels like a reach too, although we could be back in playoffs sooner. With that in mind, is why I think you keep Faulk and Schenn. But I still think we need to explore Parayko market, certainly this summer if not earlier.

 

[bleedblue1223]

He's not on the team to produce offense, no matter how many people fantasized about him being MacInnis-like as a rookie. His offensive production, whether high or low, should not be the basis of him being terrible or not. Nearly 70% of of his zone starts are in the defensive zone, compared to Faulk and Krug that start a majority in the offensive zone. Parayko has had his mistakes, I but feel he's underappreciate considering his usage and performance against top lines.

Sure, but I don't think we are grading him to the scale of Shea Weber, someone we hoped we'd become, it was comparing him to his 35ish point standard, he's well below that. It would be the same of being critical of O'Reilly's production. We don't need ROR to be a 70+ guy that he's capable of, but he at least needs to be a 50+ point guy.

 

[ValHaller]

He's not on the team to produce offense, no matter how many people fantasized about him being MacInnis-like as a rookie. His offensive production, whether high or low, should not be the basis of him being terrible or not. Nearly 70% of of his zone starts are in the defensive zone, compared to Faulk and Krug that start a majority in the offensive zone. Parayko has had his mistakes, I but feel he's underappreciate considering his usage and performance against top lines.

Okay. His career average point production prior to this season is 34 points per 82 games. He's terrible compared to his own standards.

 

[BlueDream]

He's not on the team to produce offense, no matter how many people fantasized about him being MacInnis-like as a rookie. His offensive production, whether high or low, should not be the basis of him being terrible or not. Nearly 70% of of his zone starts are in the defensive zone, compared to Faulk and Krug that start a majority in the offensive zone. Parayko has had his mistakes, I but feel he's underappreciate considering his usage and performance against top lines.

It’s absurd to say that a guy getting 23-24 minutes of ice time per game isn’t on the team to produce offense.

Playing shutdown D is obviously the #1 priority, but your top pairing d-man and guy the Blues billed as their #1 when they gave him that contract extension, has to produce just like everyone else.

 

[PocketNines]

Jay Bouwmeester was putting up Paraykoish points until he turned 30 and never hit 20 points again.

In Bouwmeester's Cup year he had 3G, 14A for 17pts in 78GP and was a -3 during the regular season.

They are both fast, tall defenders with limited physicality and offense, and they are useful if deployed the right way on a team, as we all know.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

Okay. His career average point production prior to this season is 34 points per 82 games. He's terrible compared to his own standards.

I’d argue that’s in part due to his career high in defensive zone starts and limited PP time. I’m a Parayko fan, so it’s very possible my view is clouded here. But I do think overall he’s been unfairly looked at due to unrealistic expectations and tough matchups.

 

[TheOrganist]

Y’all can break down the historical metrics better than I can but from the eye test Parayko has become more mistake prone as he’s aged and dealt with injuries…my biggest issue his decision-making. The delay of game penalty in Game 6 against Colorado being a prime example. Appreciate that he has a tough role but too many egregiously bad plays for my taste.

 

[TheOrganist]

I think we’d all agree that while Parayko always lacked offensive instincts and never has been able to fully leverage his bomb of a shot, he used to be more of a dynamic 200 foot defenseman by using his massive wingspan to rush the puck up the ice and be a one-man breakout. That created a lot of O-zone time in his prime.

 

[Celtic Note]

I think we’d all agree that while Parayko always lacked offensive instincts and never has been able to fully leverage his bomb of a shot, he used to be more of a dynamic 200 foot defenseman by using his massive wingspan to rush the puck up the ice and be a one-man breakout. That created a lot of O-zone time in his prime.

It seems like the back situation really wrecked his game. It was around that time that his play changed and not for the better (even after he healed).

 

[TheOrganist]

GWG last night. Perfect example of his idiotic decision making. He got called out by his coach in the post game presser.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

GWG last night. Perfect example of his idiotic decision making. He got called out by his coach in the post game presser.

Thought that was interesting. Criticized Thomas on first goal, tank and Parayko on gwg. Chief doesn’t usually do that. Also complaining about no call on acciari on 2nd goal is atypical. Is he feeling the heat?

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Thought that was interesting. Criticized Thomas on first goal, tank and Parayko on gwg. Chief doesn’t usually do that. Also complaining about no call on acciari on 2nd goal is atypical. Is he feeling the heat?

Maybe he is feeling some heat. I agree with @SanFranBluesFan that having your goaltender’s back is important. I just don’t think the would have been overturned.

 

[TheOrganist]

Thought that was interesting. Criticized Thomas on first goal, tank and Parayko on gwg. Chief doesn’t usually do that. Also complaining about no call on acciari on 2nd goal is atypical. Is he feeling the heat?

Frustration probably setting in. They played well in both the Dallas & Carolina games but aren't coming away with points. His players are making mistakes at crucial times (Mikkola in the Dallas game, Parayko/Tank in the Carolina game). I don't think Chief is going anywhere. The flawed roster has been well documented.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Thought that was interesting. Criticized Thomas on first goal, tank and Parayko on gwg. Chief doesn’t usually do that. Also complaining about no call on acciari on 2nd goal is atypical. Is he feeling the heat?

He's made comments about the refs, it's why opposing fans during the 2019 run and Avs fans get unhinged when he's brought up. With the players, I think it's just the next level that winning streak didn't magically get the guys back on track. It's those moments that make it seem like the season is going to be a lost cause. There's not much else Army and Berube can really do, a trade is unlikely until later in the season, so it's going to be public call outs and scratches.

 

[TheDizee]

why is neighbors on the team again? is there seriously nobody in the AHL that can do better than 1g 0a and a -10 in 13games?

He's made comments about the refs, it's why opposing fans during the 2019 run and Avs fans get unhinged when he's brought up. With the players, I think it's just the next level that winning streak didn't magically get the guys back on track. It's those moments that make it seem like the season is going to be a lost cause. There's not much else Army and Berube can really do, a trade is unlikely until later in the season, so it's going to be public call outs and scratches.

many of us on here even during the 7 game streak discussed at length how it was a mirage and the team was still playing crappy hockey. They should have lost at least 1 or 2 of those games due to their poor play. Goaltending stood on its head.

This team is just not a very good team and I blame Armstrong for that. Handed out too many overpriced contracts and the chickens are coming home to roost now.

 

[bleedblue1223]

why is neighbors on the team again? is there seriously nobody in the AHL that can do better than 1g 0a and a -10 in 13games?


many of us on here even during the 7 game streak discussed at length how it was a mirage and the team was still playing crappy hockey. They should have lost at least 1 or 2 of those games due to their poor play. Goaltending stood on its head.

This team is just not a very good team and I blame Armstrong for that. Handed out too many overpriced contracts and the chickens are coming home to roost now.

No, you can bring up Frk or Highmore, but they are nothing too.

 

[TheDizee]

No, you can bring up Frk or Highmore, but they are nothing too.

looks like the blues finally realized hes not even close to being ready. sad that it took them so long.