2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[rumrokh]

I watched some old Blues games. 8-9 years ago. The league has changed towards speed, so I don't think guys are as bulked up as they were back then. But it was nice seeing Blues players decisively win puck battles.

I think a lot of us remember Hitchcock hockey well, but it's interesting seeing it fresh again. One forward almost always playing high to prevent odd-man rushes. But when that third forward got beaten, the defensemen were on the puck carrier in the offensive zone. One defenseman pressuring the puck, the other moving in perfect tandem to support and clean up pucks behind his partner.

Defense always on their toes, pinching to keep the puck in the offensive zone, stepping up at every line. And that high forward making east-west passes really difficult as the opposition comes through the neutral zone.

I know the Blues aren't built for that style. And, again, the league has changed some. But I can't help but want to see a bit more of that. Because even though Blues forwards had better defensive sticks and reads than their overall forward crew does now, the defensemen's pressure and structure made the forwards' jobs simpler. The defense helped the forwards help them.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

I watched some old Blues games. 8-9 years ago. The league has changed towards speed, so I don't think guys are as bulked up as they were back then. But it was nice seeing Blues players decisively win puck battles.

I think a lot of us remember Hitchcock hockey well, but it's interesting seeing it fresh again. One forward almost always playing high to prevent odd-man rushes. But when that third forward got beaten, the defensemen were on the puck carrier in the offensive zone. One defenseman pressuring the puck, the other moving in perfect tandem to support and clean up pucks behind his partner.

Defense always on their toes, pinching to keep the puck in the offensive zone, stepping up at every line. And that high forward making east-west passes really difficult as the opposition comes through the neutral zone.

I know the Blues aren't built for that style. And, again, the league has changed some. But I can't help but want to see a bit more of that. Because even though Blues forwards had better defensive sticks and reads than their overall forward crew does now, the defensemen's pressure and structure made the forwards' jobs simpler. The defense helped the forwards help them.

I think that's a big reason I think the Blues started moving to a transition based team. Just looking at the defenseman joining the league right now. A lot of the good ones are 6ft and under offensive players. Just for example Fox is under 6ft offensive player, Makar is under 6ft offensive player, Morrissey is 6ft offensive, Q. Hughes is under 6ft offensive.

The issue is that they are still transitioning.

 

[rumrokh]

I think that's a big reason I think the Blues started moving to a transition based team. Just looking at the defenseman joining the league right now. A lot of the good ones are 6ft and under offensive players. Just for example Fox is under 6ft offensive player, Makar is under 6ft offensive player, Morrissey is 6ft offensive, Q. Hughes is under 6ft offensive.

The issue is that they are still transitioning.

I mean, at that time, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, and Polak were all excellent skaters. Pietro was not a burner, but was notably quick back then. And Shatty was pretty good in transition. Jackman wasn't fast, but he wasn't a slouch. He didn't get beaten to the outside as severely as the Blues' D does now and, even if he did, he didn't miss checking guys in the crease the way the Blues' D does now - and he was calm in transition.

And you can say basically the same thing about the Cup team. Edmundson and Bortuzzo were the weakest all around guys, but Pietro, Bouw, Parayko, and Dunn were all over the ice.

So it's not like they're trying to morph from a non-transition-oriented defense to a transition-oriented one. It's just that they lost quality. We all know that.

But I think they've lost structure/strategy, too. They might have to deliberately play a forward higher in the zone, but if their defense pressured the puck carrier more, the forwards would have more time to provide defensive support and would have clearer assignments.
Half the time when somebody misses an assignment on the Blues here in 2023, it's not super clear whose guy it really was. Sure, a forward might have been the closest guy, but should he have been? You can run it back and nitpick and any one defender didn't necessarily do something obviously bad; but because of that, you can see why the forwards struggle at times.

As much as the league is enamored with The Next Makar, give me a lineup of D who, even if they aren't identical quality, are stylistically more like Toews, Slavin, Dobson, young Pietrangelo, and last year's Faulk. Or Morrissey. Dude's offensive explosion this year at age 27 is unusual. He's never been a high octane offensive guy, he's been sound defensively first.

 

[joe galiba]

I mean, at that time, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, and Polak were all excellent skaters. Pietro was not a burner, but was notably quick back then. And Shatty was pretty good in transition. Jackman wasn't fast, but he wasn't a slouch. He didn't get beaten to the outside as severely as the Blues' D does now and, even if he did, he didn't miss checking guys in the crease the way the Blues' D does now - and he was calm in transition.

And you can say basically the same thing about the Cup team. Edmundson and Bortuzzo were the weakest all around guys, but Pietro, Bouw, Parayko, and Dunn were all over the ice.

So it's not like they're trying to morph from a non-transition-oriented defense to a transition-oriented one. It's just that they lost quality. We all know that.

But I think they've lost structure/strategy, too. They might have to deliberately play a forward higher in the zone, but if their defense pressured the puck carrier more, the forwards would have more time to provide defensive support and would have clearer assignments.
Half the time when somebody misses an assignment on the Blues here in 2023, it's not super clear whose guy it really was. Sure, a forward might have been the closest guy, but should he have been? You can run it back and nitpick and any one defender didn't necessarily do something obviously bad; but because of that, you can see why the forwards struggle at times.

As much as the league is enamored with The Next Makar, give me a lineup of D who, even if they aren't identical quality, are stylistically more like Toews, Slavin, Dobson, young Pietrangelo, and last year's Faulk. Or Morrissey. Dude's offensive explosion this year at age 27 is unusual. He's never been a high octane offensive guy, he's been sound defensively first.

To your point, a few games ago we had Kyrou attempting to block a pass to the slot to the right of the goal and three guys to the left of the goal puck watching and a guy wide open in front

players don't make it to this level by being puck watchers, which means everyone was unsure of where they were supposed to be, that is 100% a coaching issue

I seem to recall something in the offseason about changing the centers defensive responsibilities in our own zone, whatever changes they made clearly have not worked, and it is really difficult to change during the season with no practice time, as you do not get enough reps to make it habit, so now players are thinking instead of acting and reacting

our D is clearly not what it was talent wise, but just as glaring is the whole teams lack of structure, the Blues x's & o's suck
that is coaching, coaching, coaching

 

[PJJJP]

To your point, a few games ago we had Kyrou attempting to block a pass to the slot to the right of the goal and three guys to the left of the goal puck watching and a guy wide open in front

players don't make it to this level by being puck watchers, which means everyone was unsure of where they were supposed to be, that is 100% a coaching issue

I seem to recall something in the offseason about changing the centers defensive responsibilities in our own zone, whatever changes they made clearly have not worked, and it is really difficult to change during the season with no practice time, as you do not get enough reps to make it habit, so now players are thinking instead of acting and reacting

our D is clearly not what it was talent wise, but just as glaring is the whole teams lack of structure, the Blues x's & o's suck
that is coaching, coaching, coaching

With our defense I don't expect it to be the second worst defense in the league. I'm not expecting it to be amazing but I think it should be in the 13-16th range in all honesty. To me the coaching has the players running around like headless chickens. So many players losing their man and that's why teams can have so many shots in the slot against us

 

[LGB]

This won't hold up over a large sample, but Rosen has been insanely productive so far this year.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

I doubt he keeps it up, but there’s no doubt Rosen deserves an expanded role for the near future.

 

[bleedblue1223]

He has a PDO of 107.1, with an on-ice shooting% of 13.8. Let him see if he can carve out a 3rd pair role here, but I wouldn't get too excited for it.

 

[LGB]

I doubt he keeps it up, but there’s no doubt Rosen deserves an expanded role for the near future.

He has a PDO of 107.1, with an on-ice shooting% of 13.8. Let him see if he can carve out a 3rd pair role here, but I wouldn't get too excited for it.

I think he's a third pairing guy, but he seems to be a pretty good one for the time being. Leads Blues defensemen in on-ice xG share by a large margin as well. One of the few Blues defensemen that can actually create some offense.

 

[joe galiba]

I think he's a third pairing guy, but he seems to be a pretty good one for the time being. Leads Blues defensemen in on-ice xG share by a large margin as well. One of the few Blues defensemen that can actually create some offense.

he seems to be where he is supposed to be on the defensive side as well

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

The only Oiler-Blues trade I can remember working out is when we got Doug Weight

Getting Barbashev from an Oilers' pick has certainly worked out well. (Perron coming back 3 years after the trade certainly helps as well)


I'd love to see Rosen get a bump from the 14:50 TOI he's been getting this season, he's certainly earned it with his play thus far this season, and I think he'd be a great option to keep for the bottom pairing going into next season.

 

[oPlaiD]

he seems to be where he is supposed to be on the defensive side as well

He hasn't had enough time for the coaching staff to work their magic on him yet.

 

[PocketNines]

I watched some old Blues games. 8-9 years ago. The league has changed towards speed, so I don't think guys are as bulked up as they were back then. But it was nice seeing Blues players decisively win puck battles.

I think a lot of us remember Hitchcock hockey well, but it's interesting seeing it fresh again. One forward almost always playing high to prevent odd-man rushes. But when that third forward got beaten, the defensemen were on the puck carrier in the offensive zone. One defenseman pressuring the puck, the other moving in perfect tandem to support and clean up pucks behind his partner.

Defense always on their toes, pinching to keep the puck in the offensive zone, stepping up at every line. And that high forward making east-west passes really difficult as the opposition comes through the neutral zone.

I know the Blues aren't built for that style. And, again, the league has changed some. But I can't help but want to see a bit more of that. Because even though Blues forwards had better defensive sticks and reads than their overall forward crew does now, the defensemen's pressure and structure made the forwards' jobs simpler. The defense helped the forwards help them.

Excellent post. I really miss the very high rate of disruption of opponent entries and I miss having someone who could get the puck in the defensive corners 3 out of 4 times and get it out of danger. The Blues need an elite play-killer. Parayko is more solution than problem in this respect but it's a serious drop down from the previous era and it shows every night on the ice.

 

[Brian39]

A couple wins this week has kept us in the playoff hunt, but the reality is that we still aren't all that close.

We're only 2 points back of Calgary (who sits in the WC2 spot) with the same number of games played. Passing them in the standings is reasonable. It is also very likely necessary in order to make the playoffs. However, passing them isn't the only thing we need to do in order to make the playoffs. We also need to jump one of Colorado, Edmonton, Minnesota, or one of the 3 teams currently sitting 1-3 in the Pacific.

We're tied in points with Colorado and they have 3 games in hand. The Avs are starting to get healthier and have won 3 straight. We each have 5 games left in January and go head to head in Colorado next Saturday. We pretty much have to keep pace with them over the next 10 days. This isn't a team I'm thrilled about fighting with for a playoff spot and they have a big advantage with 3 games in hand. They will still have 3 games in hand when the calendar turns to February, so we can't lose any ground to them between now and then. I don't see a path to catching them if we can't pull the same number of points out of the next 5 games as they do.

We trail Minnesota by 5 points and they have 2 games in hand. That's a tall order.

We trail Edmonton by 6 points but we have 1 game in hand.

The 1-3 group in the Pacific is all bunched up, but they all have a big gap on us. We trail each of them by 7+ points. I think LA is the best bet to falter, but they've banked a lot of points.

Catching any of these 6 teams is going to be a tough task, but that is what it will take to make the playoffs. We play Chicago and Arizona in the next week. They feel very close to must-win games because we have too little slack to give away points to awful teams.

 

[PocketNines]

If they put on a 12-3 burst before the deadline we'd be talking about the potential for home ice advantage. It's such a weird year in the West.

 

[mk80]

A couple wins this week has kept us in the playoff hunt, but the reality is that we still aren't all that close.

We're only 2 points back of Calgary (who sits in the WC2 spot) with the same number of games played. Passing them in the standings is reasonable. It is also very likely necessary in order to make the playoffs. However, passing them isn't the only thing we need to do in order to make the playoffs. We also need to jump one of Colorado, Edmonton, Minnesota, or one of the 3 teams currently sitting 1-3 in the Pacific.

We're tied in points with Colorado and they have 3 games in hand. The Avs are starting to get healthier and have won 3 straight. We each have 5 games left in January and go head to head in Colorado next Saturday. We pretty much have to keep pace with them over the next 10 days. This isn't a team I'm thrilled about fighting with for a playoff spot and they have a big advantage with 3 games in hand. They will still have 3 games in hand when the calendar turns to February, so we can't lose any ground to them between now and then. I don't see a path to catching them if we can't pull the same number of points out of the next 5 games as they do.

We trail Minnesota by 5 points and they have 2 games in hand. That's a tall order.

We trail Edmonton by 6 points but we have 1 game in hand.

The 1-3 group in the Pacific is all bunched up, but they all have a big gap on us. We trail each of them by 7+ points. I think LA is the best bet to falter, but they've banked a lot of points.

Catching any of these 6 teams is going to be a tough task, but that is what it will take to make the playoffs. We play Chicago and Arizona in the next week. They feel very close to must-win games because we have too little slack to give away points to awful teams.

I think we're in a position where not only do we need to continue keeping pace by picking up points. We've put ourselves in a position where we need help from other teams to beat the teams we're chasing/around us

 

[Xerloris]

I think we're in a position where not only do we need to continue keeping pace by picking up points. We've put ourselves in a position where we need help from other teams to beat the teams we're chasing/around us

If I knew for sure Armstrong would trade ROR/Barbie and Tarasenko no matter what I would be rooting for wins but he has a tendancy to hold onto players for a playoff push and I think if we lose all those guys without compensation than we're royally f***ed.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

If I knew for sure Armstrong would trade ROR/Barbie and Tarasenko no matter what I would be rooting for wins but he has a tendancy to hold onto players for a playoff push and I think if we lose all those guys without compensation than we're royally f***ed.

He also has a history of trading UFAs if he doesn't think we have a chance. I'd be highly surprised if he doesn't trade both Tarasenko and RoR unless teams are only offering us a bag of pucks.

Barbashev, Acciari, Mikkola and the other Lesser UFAs are the question marks that I think Army would hold on to.

 

[Meatball]

Speaking of old Blues games, a random memory popped into my head and has been bothering me for a while.

During the Hitchcock years, I would often see shifts where they would maintain possession in the offensive zone for long stretches of time, but in typical Bluesy fashion, they wouldn't finish. They would look dominant in the offensive zone and do everything but score.

All that to ask, does anyone remember a game from a while back (I'm almost certain it was the cup year), where the Blues had this absolutely dominant offensive possession, but it didn't end in typical Bluesy fashion and they finally broke through and scored?

In this particular shift, they did everything in the offensive zone but score for a long period of time and it was shaping up to be a typical dominant, Bluesy possession...only they actually finished with a goal, and the opposing team looked crushed. Pretty sure we went on to win.

I remember JK sounding exhausted, and when they finally scored he sounded relieved.

I can't remember the particular game, but all I remember was how smooth Petro looked (yeah, I know) during the possession.

I just randomly thought of old Blues games and wondered if anyone could help me out, or if anyone had similar memories.

Again, fairly certain it was from the Cup year, the regular season. Maybe against the Hawks?

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

Speaking of old Blues games, a random memory popped into my head and has been bothering me for a while.

During the Hitchcock years, I would often see shifts where they would maintain possession in the offensive zone for long stretches of time, but in typical Bluesy fashion, they wouldn't finish. They would look dominant in the offensive zone and do everything but score.

All that to ask, does anyone remember a game from a while back (I'm almost certain it was the cup year), where the Blues had this absolutely dominant offensive possession, but it didn't end in typical Bluesy fashion and they finally broke through and scored?

In this particular shift, they did everything in the offensive zone but score for a long period of time and it was shaping up to be a typical dominant, Bluesy possession...only they actually finished with a goal, and the opposing team looked crushed. Pretty sure we went on to win.

I remember JK sounding exhausted, and when they finally scored he sounded relieved.

I can't remember the particular game, but all I remember was how smooth Petro looked (yeah, I know) during the possession.

I just randomly thought of old Blues games and wondered if anyone could help me out, or if anyone had similar memories.

Again, fairly certain it was from the Cup year, the regular season. Maybe against the Hawks?

from the cup year, but vs DAL, game 7

iirc, that whole game was pretty much dominated by STL only to have Benn almost steal it very late in the game

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Speaking of old Blues games, a random memory popped into my head and has been bothering me for a while.

During the Hitchcock years, I would often see shifts where they would maintain possession in the offensive zone for long stretches of time, but in typical Bluesy fashion, they wouldn't finish. They would look dominant in the offensive zone and do everything but score.

All that to ask, does anyone remember a game from a while back (I'm almost certain it was the cup year), where the Blues had this absolutely dominant offensive possession, but it didn't end in typical Bluesy fashion and they finally broke through and scored?

In this particular shift, they did everything in the offensive zone but score for a long period of time and it was shaping up to be a typical dominant, Bluesy possession...only they actually finished with a goal, and the opposing team looked crushed. Pretty sure we went on to win.

I remember JK sounding exhausted, and when they finally scored he sounded relieved.

I can't remember the particular game, but all I remember was how smooth Petro looked (yeah, I know) during the possession.

I just randomly thought of old Blues games and wondered if anyone could help me out, or if anyone had similar memories.

Again, fairly certain it was from the Cup year, the regular season. Maybe against the Hawks?

I remember a game in Montreal where Backes single-handedly followed the defender behind the net and pressured him before Montreal could transition. He checked the guy into the boards and took the puck from him, Steen was reading the play and darted from the slot toward the front of the net just as Backes blindly flipped the puck there. Bang, goal.

It was a game won by a commitment to a physically aggressive checking style that Hitchcock teams had.

 

[simon IC]

I would welcome Hitchcock-style hockey right now.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

I would welcome Hitchcock-style hockey right now.

THIS kind of lineup screams Hitch.. but a talented one? notsomuch

 

[simon IC]

THIS kind of lineup screams Hitch.. but a talented one? notsomuch

I see your point. I guess I am just old school. I want a return to a commitment to team defense with an emphasis on playing a 200 ft game as a five-man unit. I realize this sounds like a cliche, but I honestly feel it is what is needed right now. I would love a guy like Barry Trotz behind the bench or even the aforementioned Hitchcock.
This team needs to get back to basics. There is nothing I dislike more in hockey than one-dimensional offense-minded players that want to do it all themselves, and this is what I am seeing.

 

[Moose and Squirrel]

I see your point. I guess I am just old school. I want a return to a commitment to team defense with an emphasis on playing a 200 ft game as a five-man unit. I realize this sounds like a cliche, but I honestly feel it is what is needed right now. I would love a guy like Barry Trotz behind the bench or even the aforementioned Hitchcock.
This team needs to get back to basics. There is nothing I dislike more in hockey than one-dimensional offense-minded players that want to do it all themselves, and this is what I am seeing.

welcome to todays hockey baby!

and agree on Trotz! altho I love Berube, don't get me wrong