2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[PocketNines]

The value would be fine if we were getting last year's Jordan Kyrou for the next 8-years. But he got paid by stomping the other team's bottom lines while in a 3rd line ,16-minute per night sheltered role. Now he's being asked to play 19-minutes per game against the best players in the world who are focused on shutting him down, and he clearly looks not ready.

If he were making $2M/year this performance would be bad...but to have him get paid top money AND get smashed in the process makes Army look bad. If you're going to invest heavily in a 'face of the franchise', you'd be wise to put the money into someone who you KNOW is capable of performing at the level to warrant the investment. Kyrou has basically been gifted all-star money and a 1st line role because the Blues were so deep and so talented up front that he could pile up points in favorable matchups. Those conditions have been drastically altered. And I have no doubt that the veterans aren't happy about what they're seeing from Kyrou, and that the summer's business left a lot of players unhappy and tainted the morale of the workplace.

I also think Kyrou will become a better first liner and more closely resemble the player he was last year versus the player he's showing to be this year. But it may take some time to work through some more growing pains. It's not like Thomas is killing it as the new 1C either. We just better hope they can figure it out while the deals are still fresh. The club is now in a self-imposed transition period that was created in a perfect-storm of (1) a league-wide offensive surge, (2) a flat salary-cap from pandemic (3) unprecedented franchise forward depth (4) ill-timed breakouts corresponding to contract-years, (5) the widely accepted belief that youth is a better investment than a veteran. Army became a victim of circumstance and had no choice but to pay Kyrou or trade him. And one of those options is now off the table.

I agree with your post but as for the bolded Armstrong could have waited until this year played out to hand out the money. He did it early because he truly believed this year Kyrou would put up production that would take his contract higher. He was afraid he would not be able to get Kyrou at 65 million. That is Doug Armstrong making a judgment call and biffing it spectacularly.

 

[Stealth JD]

I agree with your post but as for the bolded Armstrong could have waited until this year played out to hand out the money. He did it early because he truly believed this year Kyrou would put up production that would take his contract higher. He was afraid he would not be able to get Kyrou at 65 million. That is Doug Armstrong making a judgment call and biffing it spectacularly.

Yep - that's true; though Army does love offering contracts sooner than necessary like with Allen. You'd think he'd stop doing this at some point considering the results haven't been spectacular.

 

[joe galiba]

I kind of feel like there is some "leave Britney alone" level overreaction going on here

 

[BlueOil]

If he were making $2M/year this performance would be bad...but to have him get paid top money AND get smashed in the process makes Army look bad. If you're going to invest heavily in a 'face of the franchise', you'd be wise to put the money into someone who you KNOW is capable of performing at the level to warrant the investment. Kyrou has basically been gifted all-star money and a 1st line role because the Blues were so deep and so talented up front that he could pile up points in favorable matchups. Those conditions have been drastically altered. And I have no doubt that the veterans aren't happy about what they're seeing from Kyrou, and that the summer's business left a lot of players unhappy and tainted the morale of the workplace.

to the first bolded line: it doesn't need to be an "if" statement, Kyrou IS making $2.8 million this season. his big extension starts next season, not this season. same with Thomas. now, 4 pts and -15 in 10 games for his ice time and spot in the line up is still very disappointing, regardless of his contract status, i'm not trying to argue he hasn't been disappointing based on his talent and previous trajectory, but i think there's a slight disconnect on this forum in people seeing the big dollar signing and not understanding when it actually kicks in. not singling you out specifically, more the general assumptions on this board this season that drive the Kyrou narratives.

to the second bolded line: i don't really buy it and it's a weak argument to me. seems like the only way that makes sense is to mistake when his extension starts. holding him accountable for his poor play? please do, but if they're really fighting over the "summer's business" in the locker room then the team's vets should be just as bothered, if not even more bothered, by Leddy's signing keeping Perron away and no one's floating that around here. Kyrou's extension doesn't prevent Perron from being on the team this season, Leddy's does. now, Perron may have wanted multiple years and then Kyrou's extension comes into play quite easily, but it still doesn't make much sense there's a mix of signed and UFA players getting upset about next year's contracts during this season. 90, 91, and 49 don't have much of a leg to stand on if they're complaining or upset about Kyrou's extension since they may not even be on the team next season. the narrative just stinks and only seems to kind of make sense if you think Kyrou's making $8 million this season.

i take issue with the "gifted all-star money line" too, feels like that's in the vein of assuming he's already getting paid $8+ million this year too, but i've made that point (poorly) enough already so no need to repeat it again.

 

[Stealth JD]

to the first bolded line: it doesn't need to be an "if" statement, Kyrou IS making $2.8 million this season. his big extension starts next season, not this season. same with Thomas. now, 4 pts and -15 in 10 games for his ice time and spot in the line up is still very disappointing, regardless of his contract status, i'm not trying to argue he hasn't been disappointing based on his talent and previous trajectory, but i think there's a slight disconnect on this forum in people seeing the big dollar signing and not understanding when it actually kicks in. not singling you out specifically, more the general assumptions on this board this season that drive the Kyrou narratives.

to the second bolded line: i don't really buy it and it's a weak argument to me. seems like the only way that makes sense is to mistake when his extension starts. holding him accountable for his poor play? please do, but if they're really fighting over the "summer's business" in the locker room then the team's vets should be just as bothered, if not even more bothered, by Leddy's signing keeping Perron away and no one's floating that around here. Kyrou's extension doesn't prevent Perron from being on the team this season, Leddy's does. now, Perron may have wanted multiple years and then Kyrou's extension comes into play quite easily, but it still doesn't make much sense there's a mix of signed and UFA players getting upset about next year's contracts during this season. 90, 91, and 49 don't have much of a leg to stand on if they're complaining or upset about Kyrou's extension since they may not even be on the team next season. the narrative just stinks and only seems to kind of make sense if you think Kyrou's making $8 million this season.

i take issue with the "gifted all-star money line" too, feels like that's in the vein of assuming he's already getting paid $8+ million this year too, but i've made that point (poorly) enough already so no need to repeat it again.

I've absolutely seen it in the business world where a younger person is promoted and paid more than their peers, and the resentment that it can cause; fairly or unfairly. Positions aren't equal and there is only so much to go around. Don't tell me that folks don't give a little side-eye when they think somebody isn't deserving of what they were given. Rewarding one year of nice offense with a franchise-player designation, which for all intents and purposes is what it was, might seem questionable (at best) or disloyal (at worst) after squeezing a guy who busted his ass more than Kyrou ever has off of the roster over $1M/yr. That's not to even say it was the wrong choice, but there's definitely a human element to the equation that you'd be naïve to overlook.

 

[Brockon]

Hold the damn gate on the panic train here... The whole team is in a funk, general consensus is that multiple players can't move the puck efficiently, ROR isn't looking like himself and Kyrou isn't playing like a top paid player...

Kyrou ISN'T a top paid player this year. He's been pulled from what previous posters have identified as a sheltered role, and placed on our shutdown line with another player struggling to adapt to the line changes in ROR (who clearly misses Perron).

I'm seeing complaints about Kyrou's ability to play the cycle game a good portion of this team excels at - that's legitimate criticism. People harping on Kyrou for never backchecking... I know for a fact that last season he was lauded by posters and commentators alike during games for using his speed to catch up and strip the puck from the opposition.

Kyrou's mistakes to me seem more like someone trying to be in a position he doesn't understand, compounding on his less than stellar defensive play last year - so he's even further back in the offensive zone, trying to be in a position to cycle with his linemates, effectively cutting himself off from the play when the puck is turned over. The NHL isn't the place to learn how to effectively be part of a cycle line for a rush player - but Kyrou isn't waiver exempt, so it's what we have.

Kyrou has under 200 NHL games played. He isn't a finished product, despite being 24. In fantasy talk, this is supposed to be his breakthrough threshold season, where he should see his production uptick as he settles into a top role, increased ice time and responsibilities. He hasn't. Not by a long shot this year. With the contract extension he signed this summer, we'd better hope he figures it out by the time his raise comes into effect - or the pair of Thomas/Kyrou extensions will have anchored us to a rebuild, as opposed to letting us move onto the future unfettered.

 

[Stealth JD]

For all we know, ROR's shit play could be a result of contract negotiations not being successful over the summer, and watching his GM give two kids the contract that he and his camp thinks he deserves. Afterall, neither one of those guys won a Conn Smythe for the club or played through broken ribs in the playoffs. But surely emotions can't impact anyone's performance. Doesn't happen.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

For all we know, ROR's shit play could be a result of contract negotiations not being successful over the summer, and watching his GM give two kids the contract that he and his camp thinks he deserves. Afterall, neither one of those guys won a Conn Smythe for the club or played through broken ribs in the playoffs. But surely emotions can't impact anyone's performance. Doesn't happen.

I bet he got covid again.

 

[Xerloris]

Hold the damn gate on the panic train here... The whole team is in a funk, general consensus is that multiple players can't move the puck efficiently, ROR isn't looking like himself and Kyrou isn't playing like a top paid player...

View attachment 605126

Kyrou ISN'T a top paid player this year. He's been pulled from what previous posters have identified as a sheltered role, and placed on our shutdown line with another player struggling to adapt to the line changes in ROR (who clearly misses Perron).

I'm seeing complaints about Kyrou's ability to play the cycle game a good portion of this team excels at - that's legitimate criticism. People harping on Kyrou for never backchecking... I know for a fact that last season he was lauded by posters and commentators alike during games for using his speed to catch up and strip the puck from the opposition.

Kyrou's mistakes to me seem more like someone trying to be in a position he doesn't understand, compounding on his less than stellar defensive play last year - so he's even further back in the offensive zone, trying to be in a position to cycle with his linemates, effectively cutting himself off from the play when the puck is turned over. The NHL isn't the place to learn how to effectively be part of a cycle line for a rush player - but Kyrou isn't waiver exempt, so it's what we have.

Kyrou has under 200 NHL games played. He isn't a finished product, despite being 24. In fantasy talk, this is supposed to be his breakthrough threshold season, where he should see his production uptick as he settles into a top role, increased ice time and responsibilities. He hasn't. Not by a long shot this year. With the contract extension he signed this summer, we'd better hope he figures it out by the time his raise comes into effect - or the pair of Thomas/Kyrou extensions will have anchored us to a rebuild, as opposed to letting us move onto the future unfettered.

I harp on Kyrou a lot but that's out of annoyance for what I see as laziness. If he would just play 75% every shift instead of only trying to use his speed when it's already to late things would be different. He should already be at speed when getting the pass, not trying to accelerate once defense close in on him. It's a learning curve I guess.

 

[BlueOil]

I've absolutely seen it in the business world where a younger person is promoted and paid more than their peers, and the resentment that it can cause; fairly or unfairly. Positions aren't equal and there is only so much to go around. Don't tell me that folks don't give a little side-eye when they think somebody isn't deserving of what they were given. Rewarding one year of nice offense with a franchise-player designation, which for all intents and purposes is what it was, might seem questionable (at best) or disloyal (at worst) after squeezing a guy who busted his ass more than Kyrou ever has off of the roster over $1M/yr. That's not to even say it was the wrong choice, but there's definitely a human element to the equation that you'd be naïve to overlook.

i'm not denying it's possible, i've seen that play out as well and it's definitely a real thing.

...but playing this theory out, two guys got promotions here, not just one. the first guy is already getting paid his new contract and expected to do his new role, the second guy is going to be promoted next year but is already doing his new role as well. the latter usually gets a lot more slack than then former in my experience in the business world, but in this case, the latter is the only one getting the heat and the former is somehow not getting any of it from the fans.

so again, while it could make sense, not all of it fits without some assumptions or motivated thinking. Leddy's new contract is still a bigger impediment to Perron being on the team this year than Kyrou's new contract so I have a hard time believing the internal drama is focused on Kyrou. i'm sure his play has come up from the coaches, his line mates, and himself, but if the locker room is somehow locked into this old forward vs. new forward drama, then leadership is a far bigger problem than expected.

 

[Brockon]

I harp on Kyrou a lot but that's out of annoyance for what I see as laziness. If he would just play 75% every shift instead of only trying to use his speed when it's already to late things would be different. He should already be at speed when getting the pass, not trying to accelerate once defense close in on him. It's a learning curve I guess.

I'd be less inclined to harp exclusively on Kyrou than to look at a massively underperforming Barbashev.

I harp on Kyrou a lot but that's out of annoyance for what I see as laziness. If he would just play 75% every shift instead of only trying to use his speed when it's already to late things would be different. He should already be at speed when getting the pass, not trying to accelerate once defense close in on him. It's a learning curve I guess.

I'll admit I've only been able to watch 3 of the games so far this season, because I'm seemingly working every night we play...

With all of the criticism on Kyrou - what's your take on the another major regressing player on the team? Barby is sitting at 10gp 1-2-3p and currently pacing for 25p in 82gp... After a 81gp 24-36-60p season filling a Schwartz-eque role in his 2nd last contract season with us...

Barby is likely a pretty upset to see Kyrou signed long term when he was trending upwards, and he's now in a UFA pending year while regressing. Unlike ROR, Barby doesn't have millions in the bank - he's much more likely to harbour resentment at being passed over than a vet.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

 

[Xerloris]

This team f***ing sucks and I hate that that I still watch them.

- what's your take on the another major regressing player on the team? Barby is sitting at 10gp 1-2-3p and currently pacing for 25p in 82gp... After a 81gp 24-36-60p season filling a Schwartz-eque role in his 2nd last contract season with us...

I'm not really concerned about Barbie considering last year was such an outlier and most people including myself expected him to not repeat that performance.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

 

[Oberyn]

8 game losing streak and no end in sight when I look at our schedule. Maybe we beat the Sharks tomorrow but I can see Karlsson lighting us up with a hat trick within 8 minutes in the second period.

Just a few notes on some players that I've observed through the first 11 games:

Kyrou - He's been the talk of the town and while his numbers look pretty atrocious, he's been one of the most consistent Blues when it comes to generating scoring chances from my perspective. He needs to be way better, but he's at least been noticeable and is trying to do things with the puck unlike most other Blues who just dump pucks in and nothing else.

Schenn - In my eyes, he's been our best forward by far. His contract likely won't age well but is still a very effective player who can play up and down the lineup.

Thomas - I expected an emergence from Thomas but so far he's been quite mild in all facets. He needs to get tougher and have more urgency for the puck. The Blues are leaning heavily on him with the downswing of ROR and so far he hasn't lived up to it.

ROR - He had a solid game in Philly but overall he's been a mess, both offensively and defensively. He's never been fast, and if his technical abilities begin to falter then I don't see him being a very effective player in this league aside from in the bottom six.

Toropchenko - I was never high on him due to his lack of offensive ability and he's certainly proved me right so far. The puck literally dies on his stick every time he touches it and his forechecking is shockingly terrible despite his speed and size. Not sure how long the Blues can justify keeping him up, I'd rather have Pitlick in his spot.

Krug - Small stature, not a great skater, and constantly making dumb decisions with the puck. Not a great combination for a defenseman making $6.5M/year.

Parayko - If he knew how to make an outlet pass he could be a top 15 defender in the league.

Mikkola - Speaking of outlet passes, pretty sure I haven't seen MIkkola make a tape to tape pass from the defensive zone since last February.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

For all we know, ROR's shit play could be a result of contract negotiations not being successful over the summer, and watching his GM give two kids the contract that he and his camp thinks he deserves. Afterall, neither one of those guys won a Conn Smythe for the club or played through broken ribs in the playoffs. But surely emotions can't impact anyone's performance. Doesn't happen.

That's what I've been wondering. I don't think O'Reilly is the type of player to intentionally sabotage anything, but I do think he's an emotional guy whose play may be affected by something like that. If I was O'Reilly and watched Perron leave without resistance from the GM and I didn't get very far in contract negotiations in the same offseason, I would imagine the thought of being next to go and having to uproot for the third time would weigh on me.

 

[Oberyn]

Alexandrov and Leivo called up, Neighbours sent down, Brown to IR.

Neighbours has been pretty ineffective and needs seasoning in the AHL so I'm completely on board with this.

Brown has basically just been a target dummy out there so no big deal.

Leivo is meh but better than Neighbours so I'll take it.

Alexandrov likely won't made a huge difference but doesn't hurt to see what he can do against NHL competition.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Alexandrov and Leivo called up. Brown to IR, Neighbours sent to Springfield.

 

[izzy]

Bring in Frk to score the powerplay goals in place of Perron

Guy has one of the best shots in hockey

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Neighbours simply wasn't ready. Hopefully he can gain some confidence down there. I'm intrigued by Alexandrov.

 

[PJJJP]

That's what I've been wondering. I don't think O'Reilly is the type of player to intentionally sabotage anything, but I do think he's an emotional guy whose play may be affected by something like that. If I was O'Reilly and watched Perron leave without resistance from the GM and I didn't get very far in contract negotiations in the same offseason, I would imagine the thought of being next to go and having to uproot for the third time would weigh on me.

Well if that's the case he isn't making it easier for himself to get a big contract from the blues or any other team. IF he thinks he deserves a certain contract, his play this season is making it less likely he does get that contract. He is going to have to get out of his own head and start playing better

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Well if that's the case he isn't making it easier for himself to get a big contract from the blues or any other team. IF he thinks he deserves a certain contract, his play this season is making it less likely he does get that contract. He is going to have to get out of his own head and start playing better

Definitely true. He's losing himself a lot of money by the game right now.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Alexandrov and Leivo called up, Neighbours sent down, Brown to IR.

Neighbours has been pretty ineffective and needs seasoning in the AHL so I'm completely on board with this.

Brown has basically just been a target dummy out there so no big deal.

Leivo is meh but better than Neighbours so I'll take it.

Alexandrov likely won't made a huge difference but doesn't hurt to see what he can do against NHL competition.

I’m going to tomorrow night’s game against the Sharks. I guess I’ll look forward to Alexandrov’s NHL debut? Oh, and his couple of solo laps they’ll make him do by himself right before the game. That’ll be worth it…

But the moves make sense. They don’t really address the core, underlying issue but I’m sure Neighbours could use some time in Springfield to find his game and adjust to pro hockey. And Alexandrov has definitely earned the call-up.

Hopefully Brown isn’t too injured but he’s also been far from a difference maker. I wonder if he re-injured the left shoulder.

 

[Allens Five Hole]

Toropchenko - I was never high on him due to his lack of offensive ability and he's certainly proved me right so far. The puck literally dies on his stick every time he touches it and his forechecking is shockingly terrible despite his speed and size. Not sure how long the Blues can justify keeping him up, I'd rather have Pitlick in his spot.

I agree with this wholeheartedly and I am surprised I haven't seen more of this on here. Maybe I am just missing it but I have really hated his game all year long. Think he came up last year and was a breath of fresh air but he does not look NHL quality to me at all.

 

[ValHaller]

I would not be shocked to see the Blues make an attempt at claiming Zaitsev.