2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[bleedblue1223]

It'll be interesting to see how the season plays out. Last season, it seemed we always had a line that performed at crazy rates, entire lines over ppg+, and it would rotate, which each line carried the team for portions of the season. Is the start of this season the opposite where we are going to have lines in funks at the same time? Are we genuinely not good this season for reasons we've already discussed?

I think our seller status is essentially confirmed at this point unless we go on some crazy winning streak that offsets our losing streak, so Army needs to evaluate what pieces are best to keep for a re-tool. It sucks that we don't have our 2nd round pick this year considering it would probably be in the top 45, so hopefully we can add a 1st or 2 and a 2nd or 2.

Hofer and Zherenko are looking pretty good in the minors, so I'm fairly confident in say that we'll have solid enough goaltending for the future. Thomas and Kyrou are young, and we have Bolduc, Snuggs, and Neighbours. Add in another forward or 2 from this upcoming draft and we likely have a pretty solid forward core in a few years.

The one big thing is defense. The rest of the team would be fine in a re-tool over the course over a couple seasons, but our current defense might not look that great by that time. I think this is where Army needs to get creative to try and revamp it.

 

[ezcreepin]

It'll be interesting to see how the season plays out. Last season, it seemed we always had a line that performed at crazy rates, entire lines over ppg+, and it would rotate, which each line carried the team for portions of the season. Is the start of this season the opposite where we are going to have lines in funks at the same time? Are we genuinely not good this season for reasons we've already discussed?

I think our seller status is essentially confirmed at this point unless we go on some crazy winning streak that offsets our losing streak, so Army needs to evaluate what pieces are best to keep for a re-tool. It sucks that we don't have our 2nd round pick this year considering it would probably be in the top 45, so hopefully we can add a 1st or 2 and a 2nd or 2.

Hofer and Zherenko are looking pretty good in the minors, so I'm fairly confident in say that we'll have solid enough goaltending for the future. Thomas and Kyrou are young, and we have Bolduc, Snuggs, and Neighbours. Add in another forward or 2 from this upcoming draft and we likely have a pretty solid forward core in a few years.

The one big thing is defense. The rest of the team would be fine in a re-tool over the course over a couple seasons, but our current defense might not look that great by that time. I think this is where Army needs to get creative to try and revamp it.

I'm really really interested to see where the defense shakes up in our farm system. We have a lot of middling defensive prospects that are playing quite well this year, but there's no clear 1st or 2nd pairing defenseman; a lot of 5 and 6th defenseman in the system.

My hope is that IF we tank and get a really nice pick, we either get a game-breaking forward OR if we happen to lose out on a top 5 draft pick, we will have our choice of very good defensive prospects. It's kinda hard to evaluate which side would be preferred if we have a choice since we wouldn't know who Army would trade, but my guess is we'd probably draft a RH defeseman since we are stacked on lefties at the moment, even despite their potential or lack thereof.

On the goaltending side of things, I'm kinda reluctant at the moment to shove Hofer or Zherenko in a backup role on the Blues since they're imploding at the moment. Obviously a lot can change in a year, but with how things are going right now, the defense looks like it's not gonna be good for awhile. I'd much rather them keep playing good hockey even if they aren't winning necessarily because at least Springfield is competitive. Blues have done a pretty good job at managing goalies and not throwing them to the wolves like Carter Hart was, but it seems likely one of them will take that role next year.

Blues are gonna need to do a lot this year to stay relevant or retool quickly seeing as our structure is terrible at the moment. Lots of bad passes out of the defensive zone, awful offensive chances or 1-and-done's, pretty pathetic play I'd say. It's clear from looking at advanced stats in a vacuum that the Blues just don't know what kind of team they are. Firstly, they aren't scoring as many goals as they should while they're letting in a more than expected. They're middle of the pack in terms of shots against, but they are bottom of the league in shots for. They don't really let people shoot from high danger areas compared to the rest of the league and they're upper middle in terms of blocked shots, yet they let in the most rebound goals in the league (not sure on the high danger goals).

They're bottom half in the league in throwing hits (supposed to be heavy?) and they also take some of the least amount of hits (fast team, transition team?). They just have no identity. They aren't a defensive stalwart anymore. They are trying to play as fast, but once they get in the zone, they pretend to be this physical, wear you down kind of team with their cycle game. What this has caused is lots of skilled forwards are being cucked into not using their speed/passing game and when we have some pressure or time and space, no one is even shooting or getting the puck on net (also just bad passing too). They have some of the highest missed-goal shots in the league, not to mention the lowest shots on goal in general, so even when we do have a chance, they throw is 10 feet above the net.

Oh also, not that this should surprise anyone but the Blues have the 2nd highest percentage of giveaways in their own zone soooooooo, yea. What I would like is a change in philosophy about how this team should play defensively and offensively. Clearly this group of forwards aren't gelling like we hoped, the defense has been suspect for some years now; I just want a new scheme. Cmon Chief let's see somethin.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I'm really really interested to see where the defense shakes up in our farm system. We have a lot of middling defensive prospects that are playing quite well this year, but there's no clear 1st or 2nd pairing defenseman; a lot of 5 and 6th defenseman in the system.

Me too.

Kessel is our only RD prospect.

Buchinger is going to juniors for at least one more season.

Gaudet (came out of nowhere) will eligible for another season in the Q.

I think Galloway will be eligible for one more season in juniors, but I think he needs to jump to the A next season.

 

[oPlaiD]

It'll be interesting to see how the season plays out. Last season, it seemed we always had a line that performed at crazy rates, entire lines over ppg+, and it would rotate, which each line carried the team for portions of the season. Is the start of this season the opposite where we are going to have lines in funks at the same time? Are we genuinely not good this season for reasons we've already discussed?

I think our seller status is essentially confirmed at this point unless we go on some crazy winning streak that offsets our losing streak, so Army needs to evaluate what pieces are best to keep for a re-tool. It sucks that we don't have our 2nd round pick this year considering it would probably be in the top 45, so hopefully we can add a 1st or 2 and a 2nd or 2.

Hofer and Zherenko are looking pretty good in the minors, so I'm fairly confident in say that we'll have solid enough goaltending for the future. Thomas and Kyrou are young, and we have Bolduc, Snuggs, and Neighbours. Add in another forward or 2 from this upcoming draft and we likely have a pretty solid forward core in a few years.

The one big thing is defense. The rest of the team would be fine in a re-tool over the course over a couple seasons, but our current defense might not look that great by that time. I think this is where Army needs to get creative to try and revamp it.

It really would be great if there was a surefire #1 d-man we could luck into drafting this season since that's really the primary thing missing from us looking like a contender after a retool for a couple years, but even if we end up picking in the top 5 it doesn't look like that happens this year.

Oh also, not that this should surprise anyone but the Blues have the 2nd highest percentage of giveaways in their own zone soooooooo, yea. What I would like is a change in philosophy about how this team should play defensively and offensively. Clearly this group of forwards aren't gelling like we hoped, the defense has been suspect for some years now; I just want a new scheme. Cmon Chief let's see somethin.

Mikkola has an uncanny and unique ability to, when he has the puck on his stick, find the one play out of five that will turn it over to the other team.

 

[Majorityof1]

Mikkola has an uncanny and unique ability to, when he has the puck on his stick, find the one play out of five that will turn it over to the other team.

This is another one of those ridiculous exaggerations that people harp on so much it takes on a life of its own, even though its not true. Mikkola turns the puck over too much but it really isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

This season he averages 2.44 Giveaways per 60 minutes of 5v5 ice time. That is better than Rosen and within 1 giveaway of every other D on the team per 60 minutes (or every 3+ games for Mikkola). Last season he averaged 1.66 Giveaway/60 which was better than Rosen, Scandella, Parayko, Walman, and Leddy, It was only .6 giveaway per 60 minutes of 5v5 worse than the best D on the team.

So yes, he could do with giving the puck away less. But to act like he gives it away every time he touches the puck is just ridiculous. As it is ridiculous to blame only him for our team turning it over too much

 

[PJJJP]

The 2024 draft is where all the defensemen are. In his rankings for 2024, Pronman has 6 D prospects in the top 10.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

This is another one of those ridiculous exaggerations that people harp on so much it takes on a life of its own, even though its not true. Mikkola turns the puck over too much but it really isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

This season he averages 2.44 Giveaways per 60 minutes of 5v5 ice time. That is better than Rosen and within 1 giveaway of every other D on the team per 60 minutes (or every 3+ games for Mikkola). Last season he averaged 1.66 Giveaway/60 which was better than Rosen, Scandella, Parayko, Walman, and Leddy, It was only .6 giveaway per 60 minutes of 5v5 worse than the best D on the team.

So yes, he could do with giving the puck away less. But to act like he gives it away every time he touches the puck is just ridiculous. As it is ridiculous to blame only him for our team turning it over too much

Need to look at it holistically. It’s not just giveaways. Does he ever exit zone with us having possession?

 

[oPlaiD]

This is another one of those ridiculous exaggerations that people harp on so much it takes on a life of its own, even though its not true. Mikkola turns the puck over too much but it really isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.

This season he averages 2.44 Giveaways per 60 minutes of 5v5 ice time. That is better than Rosen and within 1 giveaway of every other D on the team per 60 minutes (or every 3+ games for Mikkola). Last season he averaged 1.66 Giveaway/60 which was better than Rosen, Scandella, Parayko, Walman, and Leddy, It was only .6 giveaway per 60 minutes of 5v5 worse than the best D on the team.

So yes, he could do with giving the puck away less. But to act like he gives it away every time he touches the puck is just ridiculous. As it is ridiculous to blame only him for our team turning it over too much

A subjectively measures stat like giveaways is pretty meaningless but I'll give you that since I originally replied to someone who referenced it.

I would wager that the positive outcomes off of Mikkola's stick are much rarer than off Rosen's or any of our other defensemen, but I hate saying that because I don't have any real evidence to back it up. I'm not sure where to find useful transition stats or anything much else than the basic stuff these days.

Not exactly relevant to this argument, but randomly looking at the giveaway and takeaway stats, Mikkola has zero takeaways this year so he's deep in the hole on that puck possession +/- compared to our other defensemen. Not that I think that means much.

 

[AVictoryDive]

Noah

Me too.

Kessel is our only RD prospect.

Buchinger is going to juniors for at least one more season.

Gaudet (came out of nowhere) will eligible for another season in the Q.

I think Galloway will be eligible for one more season in juniors, but I think he needs to jump to the A next season.

Beck is also right handed. He’s in college still putting up respecranked #s but might be a 6-7 if that.

 

[Majorityof1]

Need to look at it holistically. It’s not just giveaways. Does he ever exit zone with us having possession?

Yes. He has at least one time in his 46 NHL games had a controlled zone exit. You are generally an Armstrong supporter. How bad would he have to be at his job if we continued to have a guy on the NHL roster who has never exited the zone with control? Forget Mikkola. Armstrong, our coaching staff, our analystics guy, everyone is involved in creating the line up in the smallest way would need to be fired if we had a D who never had a controlled zone exit in 40+ games averaging 14+ minutes a game.

A subjectively measures stat like giveaways is pretty meaningless but I'll give you that since I originally replied to someone who referenced it.

I would wager that the positive outcomes off of Mikkola's stick are much rarer than off Rosen's or any of our other defensemen, but I hate saying that because I don't have any real evidence to back it up. I'm not sure where to find useful transition stats or anything much else than the basic stuff these days.

Not exactly relevant to this argument, but randomly looking at the giveaway and takeaway stats, Mikkola has zero takeaways this year so he's deep in the hole on that puck possession +/- compared to our other defensemen. Not that I think that means much.

I agree. I'd like a better stat. Unfortunately, stats have become a business. A lot of the best stat sites have either closed because the person who ran it was hired away, or put up a paywall. I don't blame them, but it sucks. Natural stat trick is the only decent one left I know of, and it doesn't track zone exit/entry info.

That said, giveaways is a decent stat. It is subjective, and it probably underestimates turnovers for everyone. But it is something. I doubt there is a huge conspiracy in whoever counts the stats to hide the fact that Mikkola gives the puck away every single time he touches it as both you and Blueston seem to think.

As for takeaways, that isn't really his game. He leads the team in shot blocks, he is our best D at keeping the crease clear and clearing away rebounds. That is why I like him in the lineup. I'll take a few extra giveaways and a few less takeaways in exchange for those skills vs how the rest of our team has fared in those areas this year.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Yes. He has at least one time in his 46 NHL games had a controlled zone exit. You are generally an Armstrong supporter. How bad would he have to be at his job if we continued to have a guy on the NHL roster who has never exited the zone with control? Forget Mikkola. Armstrong, our coaching staff, our analystics guy, everyone is involved in creating the line up in the smallest way would need to be fired if we had a D who never had a controlled zone exit in 40+ games averaging 14+ minutes a game.

Funny. But you know what I mean. Eye test says he has about worst control zone exit percentage on team, but would like to see data on it.

And I am Armstrong supporter. He has been great for franchise and has been one of best GM in league. But he isn’t perfect. And he created the team that is disaster right now. That is on him absolutely. I admit, I thought we would be much, much better. Perhaps last season was a mirage and we aren’t that good. Maybe we were but couple small changes set us back more than I thought. But with several looming UFA and limited cap space next year feels like our window has been slammed shut.

that said, given his long record of success here, I have a level of confidence in Army to make moves to turn us around (although I don’t expect us to make playoffs at this point). My biggest worry would be whether he will be aggressive enough in the retool but I think he will. Should be interesting. More interesting than the games have been this year.

 

[ezcreepin]

Yes. He has at least one time in his 46 NHL games had a controlled zone exit. You are generally an Armstrong supporter. How bad would he have to be at his job if we continued to have a guy on the NHL roster who has never exited the zone with control? Forget Mikkola. Armstrong, our coaching staff, our analystics guy, everyone is involved in creating the line up in the smallest way would need to be fired if we had a D who never had a controlled zone exit in 40+ games averaging 14+ minutes a game.



I agree. I'd like a better stat. Unfortunately, stats have become a business. A lot of the best stat sites have either closed because the person who ran it was hired away, or put up a paywall. I don't blame them, but it sucks. Natural stat trick is the only decent one left I know of, and it doesn't track zone exit/entry info.

That said, giveaways is a decent stat. It is subjective, and it probably underestimates turnovers for everyone. But it is something. I doubt there is a huge conspiracy in whoever counts the stats to hide the fact that Mikkola gives the puck away every single time he touches it as both you and Blueston seem to think.

As for takeaways, that isn't really his game. He leads the team in shot blocks, he is our best D at keeping the crease clear and clearing away rebounds. That is why I like him in the lineup. I'll take a few extra giveaways and a few less takeaways in exchange for those skills vs how the rest of our team has fared in those areas this year.

I think there is a lot of over and under exaggeration about the play of Mikkola. On paper, he is exactly what you're looking for in a new-NHL style defensive defenseman. He skates really well, he hits, blocks shots, clears the crease; the only issue, and the issue we have been outlining for some time here on the boards is that he handles the puck pretty poorly. I'm not asking for outlet passes or anything crazy, but you'd think after being on the NHL roster for like 3 years now that he'd have developed a decent ability to exit the zone or handle the puck (this is just based off the eye test though so take it with a grain of salt).

He kinda plays like a very poor-man's Bouwmeester in that his passes seem to be off mark or they aren't crisp passes, and Mikkola has this tendency as a LH shot to go on his off wing and try to get the puck out. What does this mean? He is always on his backhand trying to get the puck out of the zone and lets face it, he can't clear the puck out like Petro could on his backhand. I could be crazy, but I see Mikkola trying to get the puck out a lot in this way and this is why I think he has a reputation of being a bad puck handler despite what some stats have to say.

 

[shpongle falls]

Mikkola definitely struugles with outlet passes and transitioning the puck but I love everything else about his game, defends pretty well.

 

[Majorityof1]

I think there is a lot of over and under exaggeration about the play of Mikkola. On paper, he is exactly what you're looking for in a new-NHL style defensive defenseman. He skates really well, he hits, blocks shots, clears the crease; the only issue, and the issue we have been outlining for some time here on the boards is that he handles the puck pretty poorly. I'm not asking for outlet passes or anything crazy, but you'd think after being on the NHL roster for like 3 years now that he'd have developed a decent ability to exit the zone or handle the puck (this is just based off the eye test though so take it with a grain of salt).

He kinda plays like a very poor-man's Bouwmeester in that his passes seem to be off mark or they aren't crisp passes, and Mikkola has this tendency as a LH shot to go on his off wing and try to get the puck out. What does this mean? He is always on his backhand trying to get the puck out of the zone and lets face it, he can't clear the puck out like Petro could on his backhand. I could be crazy, but I see Mikkola trying to get the puck out a lot in this way and this is why I think he has a reputation of being a bad puck handler despite what some stats have to say.

Being on his backhand may be in part because he has been asked to be on his offside when Bortuzzo is out. It may be just some weird habit of his that doesn't work if he defaults to it even when playing LD.

There is no doubt he is bad at handling the puck. However, I think the board way over exaggerates the extent of it, just like they do with a lot of players weaknesses (or sometimes not even weaknesses, but just typical things players sometimes do). Some do so as a joke. But things like this really start to take hold and they really cloud the discussion about players. How can you have a discussion about players when they other side thinks Mikkola turns the puck over every time he touches it, or even if they don't believe it, that's what they argue.

 

[Xerloris]

He kinda plays like a very poor-man's Bouwmeester

Comparing Mikkola to Jbo in anyway what so ever is f***ing insulting.

 

[ezcreepin]

Being on his backhand may be in part because he has been asked to be on his offside when Bortuzzo is out. It may be just some weird habit of his that doesn't work if he defaults to it even when playing LD.

There is no doubt he is bad at handling the puck. However, I think the board way over exaggerates the extent of it, just like they do with a lot of players weaknesses (or sometimes not even weaknesses, but just typical things players sometimes do). Some do so as a joke. But things like this really start to take hold and they really cloud the discussion about players. How can you have a discussion about players when they other side thinks Mikkola turns the puck over every time he touches it, or even if they don't believe it, that's what they argue.

True, I just noticed last night he was playing on his off side so I can cut him some slack in that regard. I think for the most part, he had a good game and I didn't see the Blues committing a lot of the mistakes that screwed them over at the beginning of this season and during the covid shortened season. I think I would agree with people mudding the waters about Mikkola in general, but if you're going to build a narrative about a player or players then I need some kind of proof to get me thinking about it. So usually I only engage with people I think are actually going to substantiate their claims, otherwise I just ignore the other posts. I think we can identify a few posters who aren't concerned about having good faith discussions.

Comparing Mikkola to Jbo in anyway what so ever is f***ing insulting.

I think you're ignoring the like 3 year period where Bouw was banged up and played like garbage, not his first year in St Louis or after his hip surgery.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Being on his backhand may be in part because he has been asked to be on his offside when Bortuzzo is out. It may be just some weird habit of his that doesn't work if he defaults to it even when playing LD.

There is no doubt he is bad at handling the puck. However, I think the board way over exaggerates the extent of it, just like they do with a lot of players weaknesses (or sometimes not even weaknesses, but just typical things players sometimes do). Some do so as a joke. But things like this really start to take hold and they really cloud the discussion about players. How can you have a discussion about players when they other side thinks Mikkola turns the puck over every time he touches it, or even if they don't believe it, that's what they argue.

Big part of problem with Miko is how he has been used. He needs to be with someone who is better with puck (not Borts or Scandella or Parayko) so he can do what he does well and not have to do as much of what he doesn't. He's looked good with Rosen and i've liked him with Faulk in past. So while he is objectively bad with puck, in certrain deployments his other strengths can outweigh that.

 

[Reality Czech]

I think there is a lot of over and under exaggeration about the play of Mikkola. On paper, he is exactly what you're looking for in a new-NHL style defensive defenseman. He skates really well, he hits, blocks shots, clears the crease; the only issue, and the issue we have been outlining for some time here on the boards is that he handles the puck pretty poorly. I'm not asking for outlet passes or anything crazy, but you'd think after being on the NHL roster for like 3 years now that he'd have developed a decent ability to exit the zone or handle the puck (this is just based off the eye test though so take it with a grain of salt).

He kinda plays like a very poor-man's Bouwmeester in that his passes seem to be off mark or they aren't crisp passes, and Mikkola has this tendency as a LH shot to go on his off wing and try to get the puck out. What does this mean? He is always on his backhand trying to get the puck out of the zone and lets face it, he can't clear the puck out like Petro could on his backhand. I could be crazy, but I see Mikkola trying to get the puck out a lot in this way and this is why I think he has a reputation of being a bad puck handler despite what some stats have to say.

Mikkola is more like a poor man's Scandella. He's a homeless man's Bouwmeester. He always seems to be trying to keep up with the play and often fails to do so. That being said, he can be fine with limited ice time on the 3rd pair but if he's not on the team next year I won't mind one bit.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Here's an example of why I don't really like analysis of most national writers/analysts/etc. Instead of taking a moment to critically think about the position, or watch the tape, it's about dunking and reinforcing your previously held beliefs.

 

[bleedblue1223]

And to simply show how Wysh is wrong, you can look at Binnington's quality start %, basically any start with a sv% above the league average, 60% is considered good, and he's at 63.6%. The only other time that Binnington has been above 56% was in 18/19 when he was at 66.7%.

It's absolutely still early, but Binnington has been very good, and the poor stats are more reflective of the poor team play than his individual play.

 

[TK 421]

Wyshynski must be Polish for 'stat watching idiot with an agenda'.

 

[PocketNines]

Here's an example of why I don't really like analysis of most national writers/analysts/etc. Instead of taking a moment to critically think about the position, or watch the tape, it's about dunking and reinforcing your previously held beliefs.

Wyshnicki is a human being who thinks Kyrou is the next Mike Modano. He doesn't really know hockey very well. It's so embarrassing Emily Kaplan has to treat him as an equal.

 

[Mike Liut]

Comparing Mikkola to Jbo in anyway what so ever is f***ing insulting.

they both have about the same amount of offense ability, which is close to zero. Mikkola‘s defensive game is pretty good. As a bottom pairing Dman, I have no problem with him.

 

[joe galiba]

they both have about the same amount of offense ability, which is close to zero. Mikkola‘s defensive game is pretty good. As a bottom pairing Dman, I have no problem with him.

actually jbo was a very good passer and made very good decisions with the puck
he has a high of 46 points
at his current rate, Mikkola would need to play about 10 years for his career points to match jbo’s best year

 

[BlueDream]

actually jbo was a very good passer and made very good decisions with the puck
he has a high of 46 points
at his current rate, Mikkola would need to play about 10 years for his career points to match jbo’s best year

That was earlier in his career. Bouwmeester over his last few years as a Blue was absolutely not good with the puck. He would just rim it up the boards every time.

Mikkola is more like a poor man's Scandella. He's a homeless man's Bouwmeester. He always seems to be trying to keep up with the play and often fails to do so. That being said, he can be fine with limited ice time on the 3rd pair but if he's not on the team next year I won't mind one bit.

Nobody is a poor man’s Scandella, he’s not that good. Mikkola is on the same level as him.