2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Mike Liut]

You think we suck now, just wait until next year without ROR, Tarasenko and Barbs

 

[PJJJP]

You think we suck now, just wait until next year without ROR, Tarasenko and Barbs

But with Bedard

 

[Brian39]

When has Thomas carried the Blues when the rest of the roster is struggling? Did you read that key qualifier? Obviously there have been times where Thomas was outproducing ROR in points, that isn't at all what I said though.

ROR has carried a struggling Blues roster before, so we expect him to do it. (He clearly expects it of himself.) I am saying it's never been Thomas' job to carry a struggling Blues roster until possibly now. That's where you can really identify on ice leadership. Is it not?

In both of those instances.

The team dropped 5 of 6 before going on that 14-0-2 run. They were 3-6-3 in the 12 games leading up to it. Then Thomas started shooting the puck more, catches fire and we start winning a ton of games. The other 3 lines didn't start having more success than they were having during the 12 game slump. Schenn, Perron and ROR were all negative players at 5 on 5 during the 16 game point streak. 9 forwards played 14+ games in that 16 game stretch. Here is the breakdown of 5 on 5 goal differential among those 9 players:

O'Reilly and Perron we -2 at 5 on 5

Schenn was -1 at 5 on 5

Walker was even at 5 on 5

Barby and Saad were +1 at 5 on 5

Tarasenko, Thomas, and Buch were +12, +16, and +16

If you slide the cutoff to 12 games played, you saw Kyrou with a nice +4 at 5 on 5 and Logan Brown with a +2 (albeit in limited minutes. He was on the ice for 4 GF and 2 GA). Torpo was a disastrous -7.

With the exception of the Thomas line, our forwards were a combined 'even' at 5 on 5 in this 16 game stretch coming off a 3-6-3 losing skid. 9 of the 16 teams we played during this stretch were non-playoff teams and only 3 of the games were against any of the 8 teams that finished ahead of us in the standings (Minnesota, Minnesota, and Calgary). 6 of the games were against teams who failed to reach the 80 point mark. The roster was mightily struggling heading into this stretch, we faced a relatively easy schedule and the entire rest of the forward group failed to outplay their opposition. The Thomas line went a combined +44 and carried a struggling roster.

If this stretch doesn't constitute carrying a struggling roster, then I don't believe ROR has ever done it either. I don't think you are going to find prolonged samples where an entire team completely fully and disappears, but 1 forward carries them to a decent record. Even when the Oilers were at their absolute worst periods of no depth, their supporting cast was still able to account for 50% or more of the forward goals scored. And they weren't all deep minuses in the years/stretches where the team had a winning record.

 

[The Note]

It would be pretty funny if the Blues fell ass backwards into Bedard while the Blackhawks stated goal was to tank, only for them to make the playoffs and get stomped. Not a bad consolation prize if the season goes the way it's looking like it might.

 

[PocketNines]

In both of those instances.

The team dropped 5 of 6 before going on that 14-0-2 run. They were 3-6-3 in the 12 games leading up to it. Then Thomas started shooting the puck more, catches fire and we start winning a ton of games. The other 3 lines didn't start having more success than they were having during the 12 game slump. Schenn, Perron and ROR were all negative players at 5 on 5 during the 16 game point streak. 9 forwards played 14+ games in that 16 game stretch. Here is the breakdown of 5 on 5 goal differential among those 9 players:

O'Reilly and Perron we -2 at 5 on 5

Schenn was -1 at 5 on 5

Walker was even at 5 on 5

Barby and Saad were +1 at 5 on 5

Tarasenko, Thomas, and Buch were +12, +16, and +16

If you slide the cutoff to 12 games played, you saw Kyrou with a nice +4 at 5 on 5 and Logan Brown with a +2 (albeit in limited minutes. He was on the ice for 4 GF and 2 GA). Torpo was a disastrous -7.

With the exception of the Thomas line, our forwards were a combined 'even' at 5 on 5 in this 16 game stretch coming off a 3-6-3 losing skid. 9 of the 16 teams we played during this stretch were non-playoff teams and only 3 of the games were against any of the 8 teams that finished ahead of us in the standings (Minnesota, Minnesota, and Calgary). 6 of the games were against teams who failed to reach the 80 point mark. The roster was mightily struggling heading into this stretch, we faced a relatively easy schedule and the entire rest of the forward group failed to outplay their opposition. The Thomas line went a combined +44 and carried a struggling roster.

If this stretch doesn't constitute carrying a struggling roster, then I don't believe ROR has ever done it either.

I really can't believe you are pressing forward with this. Your reply isn't even internally logical. You are pointing literally to one three week stretch of a 109-point season with historically great offense where Thomas was among three forwards to lead the team in points. You have not cited any time when Robert Thomas carried the whole team when the rest of the roster was struggling. They were 32-14-6 when they hit a small skid you're citing. If you'll recall, Jordan Kyrou flat out sucked during this stretch and it was costing the team. It This was a team that knew it was good and could score. There were no inner struggles or doubts about that. Comparing a 32-14-6 team full of confidence and self-understanding to the one that started the 18-19 season is beneath intelligent conversation. I am in disbelief you are doing this.

 

[Majorityof1]

It would be pretty funny if the Blues fell ass backwards into Bedard while the Blackhawks stated goal was to tank, only for them to make the playoffs and get stomped. Not a bad consolation prize if the season goes the way it's looking like it might.

Blues won't get Bedard. We won't be that bad. And even if we are, we won't win the lottery. And even if we did, we'd draft someone else because height.

 

[bleedblue1223]

It's sort of semantics. Sure, back in 18/19, ROR carried the team while they were playing like crap, but since hockey is a team game, no one line or player can simply carry an under-performing team into the playoffs. What ROR did during that stretch was amazing, and if he didn't do it, maybe the hole would've been even bigger, but we still needed a new coach and Binnington to really get the season turned around.

And with Thomas last season, or a few different lines, they absolutely had stretches of carrying the team while the other lines weren't scoring to the same type of level that they were capable of, it's just those dips weren't near as bad as 18/19 or this season.

And with our current situation, there's no one player or line that can carry this group. The entire group just simply has to be better.

Blues won't get Bedard. We won't be that bad. And even if we are, we won't win the lottery. And even if we did, we'd draft someone else because height.

Fantilli is dominating in college right now, so I'd be fine with him too. His hockeydb pic is pretty freaky lol.

 

[The Note]

Blues won't get Bedard. We won't be that bad. And even if we are, we won't win the lottery. And even if we did, we'd draft someone else because height.

(I don't think they'll be bad enough either, just a funny thought)

 

[PocketNines]

It's sort of semantics. Sure, back in 18/19, ROR carried the team while they were playing like crap, but since hockey is a team game, no one line or player can simply carry an under-performing team into the playoffs. What ROR did during that stretch was amazing, and if he didn't do it, maybe the hole would've been even bigger, but we still needed a new coach and Binnington to really get the season turned around.

And with Thomas last season, or a few different lines, they absolutely had stretches of carrying the team while the other lines weren't scoring to the same type of level that they were capable of, it's just those dips weren't near as bad as 18/19 or this season.

And with our current situation, there's no one player or line that can carry this group. The entire group just simply has to be better.

I disagree. "When the rest of the roster is struggling" is a pretty clear thing to understand, actually.

It refers to times when the rest of the roster is struggling, not when they are 32-14-6 and some of the roster is struggling for a couple weeks.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I disagree. "When the rest of the roster is struggling" is a pretty clear thing to understand, actually.

It refers to times when the rest of the roster is struggling, not when they are 32-14-6 and some of the roster is struggling for a couple weeks.

I understand your distinction, I just don't think it matters that much.

 

[PocketNines]

I understand your distinction, I just don't think it matters that much.

The relevance is that right now is a "rest of the roster is struggling" situation, not a "some of the roster is struggling" situation.

 

[Majorityof1]

Fantilli is dominating in college right now, so I'd be fine with him too. His hockeydb pic is pretty freaky lol.

I'd rather have Bedard, but yea, Fantilli would be an awesome player to have. He is big and fast to boot. He is probably faster than Bedard. Heck Michkov as the probable 3OA is probably better than the #1 OAs most years as well. He just has issues with being Russian in these uncertain times.

 

[Brian39]

I really can't believe you are pressing forward with this. Your reply isn't even internally logical. You are pointing literally to one three week stretch of a 109-point season with historically great offense where Thomas was among three forwards to lead the team in points. You have not cited any time when Robert Thomas carried the whole team when the rest of the roster was struggling. They were 32-14-6 when they hit a small skid you're citing. If you'll recall, Jordan Kyrou flat out sucked during this stretch and it was costing the team. It This was a team that knew it was good and could score. There were no inner struggles or doubts about that. Comparing a 32-14-6 team full of confidence and self-understanding to the one that started the 18-19 season is beneath intelligent conversation. I am in disbelief you are doing this.

I think you and I have very different definitions of what it means to carry a team. You seem to be defining it as 'being the clear best player on a team that sucks' while my definition is based on dragging your team to a much better record than the team deserves based on overall play.

I don't think anyone is carrying this team right now. Tarasenko is playing great. Faulk has been very good. I wouldn't say either is carrying this team, because it is in full blown free fall.

Ryan O'Reilly carried a struggling Blues team at the start of 2018/19 to a fired coach. We were 7-9-3 when we fired Yeo. Then we went 9-10-1 until we gave the net to Binner. Prior to Binner coming in to stabilize the net, the team's record was 16-19-4. ROR was one of the few players on the team playing well and he was awesome that season. He was easily the team's best player in the first half of the season when they were struggling. But he didn't carry that struggling team to anywhere besides being bottom 5-10 in the league.

 

[Stealth JD]

They did it! Grabbed a share of overall last place so that they can repeat the narrative of worst-to-first. Twice in a half decade!

 

[Brian39]

I disagree. "When the rest of the roster is struggling" is a pretty clear thing to understand, actually.

It refers to times when the rest of the roster is struggling, not when they are 32-14-6 and some of the roster is struggling for a couple weeks.

I don't understand what the hell you mean by 'when the rest of the roster is struggling' if it doesn't include month-long stretches where the team plays at a 61 point pace and it doesn't include stretches where every player not on the ice with the player in question simply treads water.

A team having a good record from October-February can still struggle in March and April. The Blues very much struggled in March last year. Then 1 line played incredible in April while the rest of the roster continued to contribute very little to outplaying the opponent.

 

[ValHaller]

I didn't think this board could get much more pedantic and toxic, but I guess all it takes is the team being shit lmao

 

[TK 421]

I didn't think this board could get much more pedantic and toxic, but I guess all it takes is the team being shit lmao

Lol yes.

(whisper voice)- "Susie get back in your room! Mom and Dad are fighting again."

 

[PocketNines]

I think you and I have very different definitions of what it means to carry a team. You seem to be defining it as 'being the clear best player on a team that sucks' while my definition is based on dragging your team to a much better record than the team deserves based on overall play.

I don't think anyone is carrying this team right now. Tarasenko is playing great. Faulk has been very good. I wouldn't say either is carrying this team, because it is in full blown free fall.

Ryan O'Reilly carried a struggling Blues team at the start of 2018/19 to a fired coach. We were 7-9-3 when we fired Yeo. Then we went 9-10-1 until we gave the net to Binner. Prior to Binner coming in to stabilize the net, the team's record was 16-19-4. ROR was one of the few players on the team playing well and he was awesome that season. He was easily the team's best player in the first half of the season when they were struggling. But he didn't carry that struggling team to anywhere besides being bottom 5-10 in the league.

I am talking about competitive leadership that encompasses not only times of playing well along with everyone else playing well, but critically being rock solid consistent in performance so that your teammates – who are in turbulence from their own play – can use your play to elevate themselves, follow, emulate. That is what carrying a team is to me. It is being consistent in the details of the game shift in and shift out, regardless of points (though points generally follow such play). Doing a significant disproportional share of the lifting. Being the center beam. One player can't produce wins alone, that's the nature of hockey. But one player can be a rock of calm and solid performance in chaos at a time when your teammates are suffering and struggling.

ed: At the end of the day, I am saying we have seen ROR prove this level in the past. And we have not from Robert Thomas because this is his first real opportunity to be that rock in the storm. And you take issue with that. It's inexplicable that this is not only a dispute but that it's carried over when it should have ended yesterday.

No my definition is not "being the best player on a team that sucks." That is trite and simplistic.

The bolded sentence. Yep, new arrival ROR carried the 18-19 team to a fired coach, great argument. Just a great argument.

 

[MissouriMook]

It's sort of semantics. Sure, back in 18/19, ROR carried the team while they were playing like crap, but since hockey is a team game, no one line or player can simply carry an under-performing team into the playoffs. What ROR did during that stretch was amazing, and if he didn't do it, maybe the hole would've been even bigger, but we still needed a new coach and Binnington to really get the season turned around.

And with Thomas last season, or a few different lines, they absolutely had stretches of carrying the team while the other lines weren't scoring to the same type of level that they were capable of, it's just those dips weren't near as bad as 18/19 or this season.

And with our current situation, there's no one player or line that can carry this group. The entire group just simply has to be better.


Fantilli is dominating in college right now, so I'd be fine with him too. His hockeydb pic is pretty freaky lol.

Looks like someone is a Brandon Tanev fan.

 

[Louie the Blue]

On a scale of 1-10 on panic levels, I'm a 3 right now, where 10 is everyone should be fired and traded.

I'm moderately concerned, but need to see how they play over the next month or 2 before I feel any action needs to be taken.

 

[Mike Liut]

We could be entering year one of a 3 yr unintentional rebuild. If we suck bad enough, Army has been known to trade UFA‘s at the TDL. And that puts the next couple years at risk too with ROR, Tarasenko, Barbs, Mikkola all being UFA’s.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

At least the Blues picked a good year to suck. Normal first round draft talent will fall to early 2nd round. Tarasenko and RoR should still receive a 1st rounder plus. Barbie can probably get 2 2nds, and we might be able to trick some poor GM into giving a 2nd or 3rd for Mikkola.

 

[Mike Liut]

At least the Blues picked a good year to suck. Normal first round draft talent will fall to early 2nd round. Tarasenko and RoR should still receive a 1st rounder plus. Barbie can probably get 2 2nds, and we might be able to trick some poor GM into giving a 2nd or 3rd for Mikkola.

If we are going to suck, I hope we really suck. No half ass sucking.

 

[The Note]

It would really take some doing to out-suck teams who have been clear in their intent to suck shit this year (Sharks, Montreal, Chicago, Phoenix). Plus teams like Philly, Seattle, and CBJ who are going to be down there too. But, they are doing a hell of a job of it so far.

 

[TheDizee]

If we are going to suck, I hope we really suck. No half ass sucking.

they will find a way they f*** that up as well