2022-2023 Blues Multi-Purpose Thread

[Louie the Blue]

Generally I’d agree, with one major exception. Petro was a primo pick. I know we drafted him 11 years before we won the cup, but he was the best player on this team for a decade.

Armstrong wasn’t GM yet when he was picked.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Sure, but Army still benefitted from that pick. We technically had 3 top 5 picks on our Cup team. Now, I think Schenn and Bouwmeester are kind of weak arguments in that aspect, but Petro 100% fits. Bruins are another team that did it with less.

Teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Tampa all needed more internal draft capital at the top to win their Cups.

 

[Brian39]

Sure, but Army still benefitted from that pick. We technically had 3 top 5 picks on our Cup team. Now, I think Schenn and Bouwmeester are kind of weak arguments in that aspect, but Petro 100% fits. Bruins are another team that did it with less.

Teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Tampa all needed more internal draft capital at the top to win their Cups.

Add Colorado to that list too. Their Cup core included MacKinnon (1st overall), Landeskog (2nd overall), and Makar (4th overall). Byram also played a big role in the 2022 playoffs and he was drafted 4th overall with the pick they got from Ottawa in the Duchene trade (who they drafted #3 overall).

 

[STL fan in MN]

Add Colorado to that list too. Their Cup core included MacKinnon (1st overall), Landeskog (2nd overall), and Makar (4th overall). Byram also played a big role in the 2022 playoffs and he was drafted 4th overall with the pick they got from Ottawa in the Duchene trade (who they drafted #3 overall).

And Rantanen - 10th overall. Not a top-5 pick but sure as heck should’ve been.

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Armstrong wasn’t GM yet when he was picked.

True. But my point is that he was a part of the roster who actually won the cup. And played a vital role at that. There’s no way we win the cup without him anchoring the top pairing.

 

[oPlaiD]

True. But my point is that he was a part of the roster who actually won the cup. And played a vital role at that. There’s no way we win the cup without him anchoring the top pairing.

I mean even EJ was part of what lead to acquiring Schenn, and without his draft pedigree we probably don't get the return we did when we moved him, so having that #1 pick, even as essentially a bust, was still important.

It's also not something you should take in a vacuum when you look at team building. The Blues managed to get one #1 defenseman out of their two top 5 selections. If we only had one top 5 pick, we may have just had EJ and no Cup.

Armstrong certainly did a better job building a solid team around that foundation than most of these other perennial loser franchises, but you can't ignore the foundation he had to build from.

And I'm not trying to put Armstrong down. I don't like almost anything Armstrong has done since we won the Cup outside of Buchnevich, but he's certainly had an impressive tenure here. It's actually crazy looking at lists of top 10 draft selections teams have made and realize that our #10 this season will be only the third time picking that high as a franchise since we took Jocelyn Lemieux at #10 in 1986. The Blues have certainly done a lot in the salary cap era without much in the way of draft capital.

 

[Louie the Blue]

True. But my point is that he was a part of the roster who actually won the cup. And played a vital role at that. There’s no way we win the cup without him anchoring the top pairing.

Sure, but it's not like Armstrong the benefit of having multiple (top 5) picks during his tenure in STL.

If anything, I'd say the Blues success or lack thereof post-lockout is more an indictment on JD/Pleau with the draft pick capital they had.

Sure, but Army still benefitted from that pick. We technically had 3 top 5 picks on our Cup team. Now, I think Schenn and Bouwmeester are kind of weak arguments in that aspect, but Petro 100% fits. Bruins are another team that did it with less.

Teams like Washington, Pittsburgh, Chicago, Tampa all needed more internal draft capital at the top to win their Cups.

Schenn and Bouwmeester were acquired 8 years and 10 years after they were drafted in the 1st round by other teams. That should be a point for Armstrong in terms of improving the roster without much draft capital.

I think Armstrong's made mistakes post SC. But to act like he was gifted a roster that was ready to compete and go deep (ala Stan Bowman after Tallon was pushed out) is not exactly accurate. There were some good foundational pieces that he inherited (Pietrangelo, Schwartz, Tarasenko) but he still had to do a lot of moves on his own.

The only teams that standout to me post lockout that didn't reap the rewards of multiple high draft picks from a tank are:

2007 Ducks
2008 Red Wings (all their core players were picked super late in the draft by the Wings at this point. Yzerman was gone)
2011 Bruins
2019 Blues

I guess the Kings would count as well (Doughty was really their only high pick that contributed to their Cups while Kopitar and Brown were picked outside the top 10 + Schenn was traded by that point).

 

[Vladys Gumption]

Sure, but it's not like Armstrong the benefit of having multiple (top 5) picks during his tenure in STL.

If anything, I'd say the Blues success or lack thereof post-lockout is more an indictment on JD/Pleau with the draft pick capital they had.


Schenn and Bouwmeester were acquired 8 years and 10 years after they were drafted in the 1st round by other teams. That should be a point for Armstrong in terms of improving the roster without much draft capital.

I think Armstrong's made mistakes post SC. But to act like he was gifted a roster that was ready to compete and go deep (ala Stan Bowman after Tallon was pushed out) is not exactly accurate. There were some good foundational pieces that he inherited (Pietrangelo, Schwartz, Tarasenko) but he still had to do a lot of moves on his own.

The only teams that standout to me post lockout that didn't reap the rewards of multiple high draft picks from a tank are:

2007 Ducks
2008 Red Wings (all their core players were picked super late in the draft by the Wings at this point. Yzerman was gone)
2011 Bruins
2019 Blues

I guess the Kings would count as well (Doughty was really their only high pick that contributed to their Cups while Kopitar and Brown were picked outside the top 10 + Schenn was traded by that point).

My point was that even though armstrong didn’t draft Petro, we still had a primo pick that played a prime role in our cup win. Without Petro we don’t win that cup.

 

[TK 421]

My point was that even though armstrong didn’t draft Petro, we still had a primo pick that played a prime role in our cup win. Without Petro we don’t win that cup.

I thought Petro was our best game to game player during the Cup run, not a chance we win without him.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Scott Perunovich and Team USA playing Germany right now on NHL Network.

 

[Xerloris]

Scott Perunovich and Team USA playing Germany right now on NHL Network.

Is he hurt yet?

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Is he hurt yet?

Still out there.

Jake Neighbours gets Canada on the board v. Slovakia.

 

[Reality Czech]

Perunovich just had a sweet assist on the PP to give USA the lead against Germany 3-2 late in the 3rd.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Perunovich just had a sweet assist on the PP to give USA the lead against Germany 3-2 late in the 3rd.

Sweet cross-ice against the grain pass. No points in the first game against the Finns but 1 assist in each of the last 2 games for Scotty. Americans now 3-0.

Germany has been surprisingly competitive so far…but have absolutely nothing to show for it. Lost 1-0 to Sweden, 4-3 to Finland and 3-2 to USA. All 3 required 3rd period game winners to beat the Germans. Germany even led 2-1 after 2 periods today. All super close but 3 regulation losses for the Germans. 0 points.

 

[Brian39]

And I'm not trying to put Armstrong down. I don't like almost anything Armstrong has done since we won the Cup outside of Buchnevich, but he's certainly had an impressive tenure here. It's actually crazy looking at lists of top 10 draft selections teams have made and realize that our #10 this season will be only the third time picking that high as a franchise since we took Jocelyn Lemieux at #10 in 1986. The Blues have certainly done a lot in the salary cap era without much in the way of draft capital.

As a whole, I don't like the team direction and decisions he's made since the Cup win. From a very macro level, my opinion of the organization immediately following the Cup parade was that we had been fortunate to win a Cup in year 1 of what looked like a 5 year Cup window (corresponding with the ROR and Tarasenko contracts). I was confident that ROR, Tarasenko, Petro and Parayko were the four pillars that would absolutely be here through 2023. I was confident that we would do whatever it took to keep Petro and Parayko as that 1-2 RD punch through those 5 years, even if it meant contracts that would age poorly. Thomas appeared to be a near-lock to be here for the whole window, although I would have said that was still slightly contingent on his development.

I really, really thought that the 5 year plan was to structure everything around having a ROR-Thomas battery down the middle, a Petro-Parayko battery on the right side, and a stud goal scoring RW in Tarasenko. Obviously Army deviated from that with the Petro negotiation (and the unexpected shoulder issues for Tarasenko). I thought that we drew the wrong line in the sand with Petro and I feel comfortable saying that this team is worse off for not caving to Petro's demands.

With that said, it hasn't been all bad and Army has done a lot that I've liked between the Cup and today. The Buch trade was by far my favorite, but there are others that I've been a fan of.

I am still a huge fan of both Thomas contracts signed during this window. The 2 year bridge at $2.8M was fantastic value for those seasons. And I'm still a huge fan of the extension that kicks in next season. As of today, he is set to be the 21st highest paid center in 2023/24. He will be low-end 1C money right off the bat, could be high end 2C money in the back half of the deal, and the contract expires at the conclusion of his age 31 season so you didn't have to purchase any years that are assumed to be ugly. The decade-long commitment to Thomas post-Cup win is fantastic.

I really like what we've done with our draft picks in since winning the Cup. I'd say the consensus is that we have a middle-of-the-pack prospect pool, which is pretty damn impressive considering the draft picks we've had. Since winning the Cup, we have only had 4 picks in the top 70: 62nd (2019), 26th (2020), 17th (2021), and 23rd (2022). Turning those picks into Alexandrov, Neighbours, Bolduc, and Snuggy is pretty impressive. Bolduc is the only one in that group that I'm worried might not become a legitimate NHL player, but he still has pretty damn good upside. Zherenko is looking as good as you can hope for a 7th rounder in his age 21 season and we've got a handful of intriguing mid-round D prospects (with limited upside). Pretty impressive given the picks we've had.

And I absolutely like the way Army has handled our draft picks form the last 4 drafts. Our 2019 1st and 2021 2nd were both moved to get ROR, so there is absolutely no complaints about moving those. The 2020 2nd was moved for Scandella in a season where we were fighting for the President's trophy and had a sudden/unexpected gaping hole in our top 4. The 2022 pick was moved for Buch, which was a complete no-brainer. We weren't just pissing away picks. We returned tangible NHL quality for these 2nds and the 1st. The only pick I'd complain about is the 2023 2nd moved in the Leddy deal. However, if we're expanding the view to upcoming drafts, then I have to praise Army in the aggregate. We picked up picks #26 and #76 in 2023, another late 1st that will either be pick #23 or #29-32 in 2023, a 2024 2nd, and a 2024 3rd.

Finally, I really like the Vrana/Kapanen acquisitions (Vrana more than Kapanen). Both bring tangible upside, both as potential medium-long term solutions or as potential assets to be flipped at next year's deadline. We had to fill middle 6 forward holes for next season and we weren't going to do better than these two in UFA for the combined $5.865M (especially without giving up term). These were both very good gambles that carry very little risk but pretty damn high reward. At worst, they cost us two draft slots. With Chicago suddenly in need of talent to surround Bedard (without committing term), I'd be surprised if either would still be available for free in the summer. Striking on these two at the deadline was a really good move.

All in all, I don't like the course Army struck post-Cup. Opting to change the composition/style of our blueline by not meeting Petro's demands led to a series of hole-plugging moves that have turned our biggest strength into a big weakness. However, I do think that there are a number of positives to take away from the last 4 years. We brought a damn good team to the table for our 2020 Cup defense and the 2022 team was as equipped to beat the eventual champs as anyone in the NHL. I will be forever convinced that we would have been going back to Colorado 2-2 with Binner in net. It's not like this team has been dogshit for years. The wheels really fell off this year, but I think Army's response to that so far has been excellent. There is a lot more work to do and this summer is massively important. But I'm happy with the decisions made in 2023.

 

[bleedblue1223]

COVID hurt our best chance at another deep run, and then the Petro negotiations happened. We don't need to talk about the Petro stuff again, we all know this team likes a true #1. COVID was really unfortunate, I agree with @Brian39 that we had what looked like a decent window, and it's those immediate years after 2019 that you have to make count, and COVID stopped us when we were rolling. The team was hot in mid-Feb through March, with Binnington in great form, and then the league stopped, some of the team got COVID before the bubble and it showed when play started up again.

We were humming in 21/22, but that was more of performing above expectations and underlying metrics than true sustainable play, but when Binnington was hot in the playoffs, it felt like lightning could strike twice. This past season was a wake up call, probably too harsh of one, but a reminder that we are more of a bubble team than a solid playoff team.

 

[STL fan in MN]

COVID hurt our best chance at another deep run, and then the Petro negotiations happened. We don't need to talk about the Petro stuff again, we all know this team likes a true #1. COVID was really unfortunate, I agree with @Brian39 that we had what looked like a decent window, and it's those immediate years after 2019 that you have to make count, and COVID stopped us when we were rolling. The team was hot in mid-Feb through March, with Binnington in great form, and then the league stopped, some of the team got COVID before the bubble and it showed when play started up again.

We were humming in 21/22, but that was more of performing above expectations and underlying metrics than true sustainable play, but when Binnington was hot in the playoffs, it felt like lightning could strike twice. This past season was a wake up call, probably too harsh of one, but a reminder that we are more of a bubble team than a solid playoff team.

Agree Covid really took the sails out of the Blues. They seemed like a shell of themselves when they showed up in the Edmonton bubble. But I’ll also say that missing Bouwmeester was also huge. Thankfully he didn’t die that day but his absence left a huge hole in the lineup. They traded for Scandella to try to plug the hole. No offense to Scandella but he’s no Bouwmeester.

Then in 2021, we had to figure out a new normal without both Petro and Bouw. IMO, the Cup window basically closed when Army signed Krug and Petro signed in Vegas. It also didn’t help that our regular season leading scorer, David Perron, missed the playoffs that year…because he had Covid.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Agree Covid really took the sails out of the Blues. They seemed like a shell of themselves when they showed up in the Edmonton bubble. But I’ll also say that missing Bouwmeester was also huge. Thankfully he didn’t die that day but his absence left a huge hole in the lineup. They traded for Scandella to try to plug the hole. No offense to Scandella but he’s no Bouwmeester.

Then in 2021, we had to figure out a new normal without both Petro and Bouw. IMO, the Cup window basically closed when Army signed Krug and Petro signed in Vegas. It also didn’t help that our regular season leading scorer, David Perron, missed the playoffs that year…because he had Covid.

True, losing Bouw was probably the real mark of the end beginning, even if COVID never happened. Was it Perron or someone else that basically said that recently?

Once we hired Berube and called up Binnington, everything seemed to go right. Once Bouwmeester got hurt, everything seemed to go wrong. That's sports though.

 

[Brian39]

But I’ll also say that missing Bouwmeester was also huge. Thankfully he didn’t die that day but his absence left a huge hole in the lineup. They traded for Scandella to try to plug the hole. No offense to Scandella but he’s no Bouwmeester.

Scandella is no Bo, but the limited sample-size of Scandella's play with Parayko in the 2019/20 regular season was extremely encouraging. All the underlying metrics were solid and the existence of Petro (and Faulk) on the blueline meant that we didn't have to shelter either of the other pairs.

Scandella wasn't going to be as good as Bo, but I think he could have plugged the hole adequately for a few years. I think that the loss of Bo could have been absorbed, but then the loss of Petro (and addition of Krug) made our other top 4 way less able to handle tough competition and led the staff to start asking Scandella/Parayko to do even more than Bo/Parayko had been asked to do. Scandella was absolutely never going to be an upgrade over Bo.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Scandella is no Bo, but the limited sample-size of Scandella's play with Parayko in the 2019/20 regular season was extremely encouraging. All the underlying metrics were solid and the existence of Petro (and Faulk) on the blueline meant that we didn't have to shelter either of the other pairs.

Scandella wasn't going to be as good as Bo, but I think he could have plugged the hole adequately for a few years. I think that the loss of Bo could have been absorbed, but then the loss of Petro (and addition of Krug) made our other top 4 way less able to handle tough competition and led the staff to start asking Scandella/Parayko to do even more than Bo/Parayko had been asked to do. Scandella was absolutely never going to be an upgrade over Bo.

Fair. Losing Bouw hurt but then also losing Petro was essentially ripping out the support beam for the house. The house didn’t immediately collapse, but it finally did this season.

 

[stl76]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Scandella was signed to be a Gunnarsson replacement NOT a Bouwmeester replacement.

 

[bleedblue1223]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: Scandella was signed to be a Gunnarsson replacement NOT a Bouwmeester replacement.

That may be what he was best designed for, but he was pretty obviously the Bouwmeester replacement that Army was forced into because of circumstance. The best available options at the time were Scandella or someone like Dillon.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Crap

 

[Mike Liut]

We need a physical shut down LD and more toughness in our top 9.

Who those players are, I have no idea

 

[Reality Czech]

We need a physical shut down LD and more toughness in our top 9.

Who those players are, I have no idea

I've said it before but someone like Adam Larsson would be perfect. I'm sure he's not available since he might have the best value contact in the entire league but that's exactly the kind of player we need.