Czechboy
Náš f*cken barák!
- Apr 15, 2018
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I wasn't arguing that Canada is dominant. The opposite actually. They are the best but it's not a slaughter by any means.
U18: 2021 WJC18
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VictorLustig
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- Feb 8, 2012
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I actually was not disagreeing with you. Nor am I suggesting that Canada doesn't win its fair share of tournaments. But statistically, there is no evidence of dominance. In my opinion, that is kind of surprising when you consider the level of investment Canada makes in comparison to other countries.
Canada isn't directly investing all of this money with the sole purpose of winning these international tournaments. The better gauge in regards to investment dollar recovery would be the players produced by each country - I would still consider Canada "dominant" in producing the largest volume of NHL caliber talent and the highest end talent.
Hockey is a sport with some of the highest levels of variance and judging the results of a single elimination tournament when gauging a nation's success can be misleading. All it could take is an elite goaltender, or just a goalie who got hot at the right time, to win a tournament and skew the results if using the standings to measure a country. There is a legit possibility that if Canada sent two teams to all the international tournaments that the 2nd team could outperform the 1st over a sample timeframe.
Saying that, the people who say that any best on best tournament would be a cakewalk for Canada are either idiots or trolling - either way it's bad karma and we don't need to be jinxed! Canada would no doubt be the favorite to win most best on best tourneys but with the amount of talent being produced outside of Canada nothing is a guaranteed. I am just happy enjoying the next couple months while we are still the reigning Olympic champs before I have to live in constant fear of losing it!
Czechboy
Náš f*cken barák!
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It's definitely a big deal in Canada. Most the best Canadian athletes go into hockey. Heck, most kids do too and it is very common. Parents are happy to pay small fortunes to get their kids to the NHL. I mean, it's a big deal for sure.
A few Olympics back I would've argued they're not even the best but I think they've won the last 3 best on best? World Cup (which I think is a bullshit tournament) and last 2 Pro Olympics. So I have no problem with the fans saying they are the best in the world right now. That doesn't bug me at all and it's well deserved.
When I start reading about how they just dominate everything and destroy everyone whenever they have their best players, I get a bit annoyed (this thread is full of those comments) because I really don't think the difference is that huge between them and the other 4 nations. Eg. the 2022 Olympics should be pro on pro. For sure I think Canada is the favourite but I don't think it'll be easy for them.
To use a tennis analogy. they are Federerer but they just entered the olympics with Djokovic, Murray and Nadal and all 4 are near their prime. Sorry, I can't think of a 5th player that was a threat for those guys in their primes.lol
I agree with everything you say. Canada is a very wealthy country with a lot of extra money to invest in youth sports, most of which is funneled into their national sport, hockey. They were certainly dominant until the 1960's when the game started to catch on in other countries, particularly European countries like (then) Czechoslovakia, Sweden, Finland and the USSR. And of course, the USA, which made its impact on World hockey in the 1960 and 1980 Olympics. The USSR caught up to Canada by the 1970's by developing their own unique strategies, tactics, and innovative training regimes. At that point, as you have said, Canada would still often win tournaments, but they would typically win thrilling games by very narrow margins. They also started losing tournaments as well. The rest of the world simply caught up.
Hahaha I love this.
QC would of have some top talent on this team, that was a heck of a game.
Couple of things:
seeing the whole WJC, I think USA played the better game and deserved it, I don’t think they had the better team and they wouldn’t have won a best of 7 IMO, but one off tourneys require you to show up at the right time. They did, I can’t say they deserved to lose and you just don’t win a game based on 1 period.
Canada does not have its best team right now let’s make something clear, the Quebec 2003’s are on record as better than the Ontario crop, look no further than the 2019 winter games. Zach L’Heuruex who scored the OT winner would be on this team, as would James Malatesta and more.
Other countries, notably the USA don’t have their best group, but I do know the USA usually brings its best here.
the reality is that most top countries have a top 25 that can can compete with Canada, if you can compete in a 1 off you can win and history will say X thing. Doesn’t really matter who’s better in a 1 off, just matter who shows up and gets the luck.
seeing the whole WJC, I think USA played the better game and deserved it, I don’t think they had the better team and they wouldn’t have won a best of 7 IMO, but one off tourneys require you to show up at the right time. They did, I can’t say they deserved to lose and you just don’t win a game based on 1 period.
Canada does not have its best team right now let’s make something clear, the Quebec 2003’s are on record as better than the Ontario crop, look no further than the 2019 winter games. Zach L’Heuruex who scored the OT winner would be on this team, as would James Malatesta and more.
Other countries, notably the USA don’t have their best group, but I do know the USA usually brings its best here.
the reality is that most top countries have a top 25 that can can compete with Canada, if you can compete in a 1 off you can win and history will say X thing. Doesn’t really matter who’s better in a 1 off, just matter who shows up and gets the luck.
Both teams seemed unuually weak, but we're used to Keller, Matthews, Wahlstrom, Hughes dominating the tourney. USA doesn't have 1 star like that, usually they bring 2-3 stars when they win gold. No Luke Hughes, I wish they played Ty Murchison, the only LD with size.
Sweden seemed relatively weak as well. Edvinsson didn't impress me as much, but it's just a short tournament. Rosen, Stromgren, Robertsson were as advertised, future NHLers here. Elias seemed gritty, high IQ, and patient player. I think their goalie is good enough to beat any team except Canada.
Gold Standard
Registered User
- Sep 7, 2018
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I guess we got the early dinner time game. I guess it will have to be skip the dishes and order in...
should be a doozy. 4-2 Canada.
should be a doozy. 4-2 Canada.
Good place to end this and get back to u18 semi discussion.
I agree with everything you say.
My point was that Canada are no 1 right now for sure in hockey in general but the other top nations can certainly compete with them and challenge them for gold at tournaments at every level. Even best on best. They could even compete best of seven with Canada. Its not luck. Its playing a better team game each night you play them and lots of effort. Luck has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I think the thing what is annoying is the comments by some Canadian fans (not you sir) on here that it's a walk if Canada brings its best team. Which is nonsense.
I also dislike discrediting tournament wins by other nations because x y z was missing for Canada. Other teams were missing x y z too. Teams send the best they can and that's it. The players you sent represent Canada and their results count just like everyone else's.
Now finally to my main point I want to make on this comment,
Who's playing the final boys? To watch my team Finland I have an early night, then going to get up to watch it and then go back to sleep with work in the morning. These time zones are killing me. Killing me I tell you.
IceHockeyDude
Registered User
Same here, that's why I've skipped all Finland games. Couldn't have worse luck when it comes to the schedule.
Canada's best statistical record of success in so-called best on best was in the Olympics in 2002, 2010 and 2014, all of which were single elimination tournaments in which they didn't play all of the best teams. Once players get past the youth level, after Soviet hockey disappeared from the scene, there was no real competition in international hockey. The fact that the NHL is a Canadian corporation that operates in Canada and the USA exclusively has the effect of basically eliminating the possibility of equal competition. Unless Europeans are markedly better than Canadian or Americans, jobs are going to go to the local boys. That is just human nature. It is too hard for other teams to develop the depth needed to excel.
goldenbladz1
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- Feb 11, 2015
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Ya I agree with you. I don't like the comments that we are gonna destroy everyone and every nation. The fact still remains that Canada has more elite players and depth and could send multiple teams to complete. I guess it's no different in other sports where the Americans were so dominant in baseball and basketball and still do have the most depth and elite players but Canada now has enough great baseball and basketball players that can make a single unit to challenge where as before it would be a laugher to play the US.
theslatcher
Registered User
All I want from Sweden against Canada is everybody to finally play up to at least their par. Lineup decisions, and coaching, screw with that, yes, but, Just do it.
I think sometimes luck is a factor, I’m not referring to that final. When we won 5 WJC in a row, we had some bounces and luck, I’d argue we haven’t gotten it now and that’s why the results look poor.
for the WJC, would Dach have changed the outcome ? I don’t think so, the whole team didn’t show. Knight was Brilliant as was Zegras, in some years old I’ll back the whole walk through the tournament thing, but in others it’s just not the case, people forget that.
you don’t walk through a tourney at will, literally everything goes your way and you’re playing at your maximum.
I couldn't disagree more - NHL teams are taking the best players, period. The bias that you are referring to is the fact that the NHL plays a NA style which obviously makes the transition for NA players easy, since they've played it their whole life. Skilled Europeans have to be "markedly better" to make NHL teams if they are not willing or capable of adapting to this style of hockey - i.e) if a player isn't good enough to play in the top 6 but doesn't have the tools necessary to play in the bottom 6 then he is useless... but that goes for players from any country, it's just that NA players are probably more likely to have the tools to play a grinder role in the bottom 6 in the NHL.
Is there that much bona fide NHL level talent playing outside the NHL? Not saying there is none but you see a guy like Nigel Dawes, who couldn't stick in the NHL, tearing apart the KHL and it's hard to imagine that there are that many guys that could walk on to an NHL team and have a huge impact - other than the young prospects who are developing en route to the NHL. (how many times can someone say NHL in one sentence.... I know)
Canada can't control who they play in those tournaments. If the best teams are getting eliminated by teams that Canada is beating then it seems like that would make Canada the best team at the tournament, no?
VictorLustig
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theslatcher
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theslatcher
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