2021 Training Camp

[Majorityof1]

Honestly I don't think he was. He got a lot of opportunities with the puck in the offensive end, but a lot of it was overthought and led to turnovers in the offensive end. He was with NHL players against an AHL roster and I don't think what he showed is enough against NHL talent IMO. I missed the first game, so just thoughts on last night, but Pernovich was a clear step up from him.

I concur on Neighbours. Not on Perunovich though (I shared my thoughts on the GDT so I won't reiterate here). Neighbours had a lot of chances, which is good for him, but he did absolutely nothing with them, missing the net or jamming into the goalie. Smarts can only take you so far. You need finish as well. He earned continued looks, but at some point he needs to do something with his chances. And we need to see if he can get those chances against stronger competition.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Neighbors may be in line to get the Perron treatment. No need for him to waste a season if he can’t progress in Juniors.
Training camp has some interesting plot lines this year. Throw a Tarasenko trade in there and it goes to eleven. (I totally don’t expect that.)

 

[TK 421]

I was the one guy thrilled we picked Neighbours and I just don't see how we could justify keeping him up this year when we already have tremendous depth at forward that's more experienced.

Let him continue on his current trajectory which has him on track to make the team out of camp next year.

 

[Thallis]

I concur on Neighbours. Not on Perunovich though (I shared my thoughts on the GDT so I won't reiterate here). Neighbours had a lot of chances, which is good for him, but he did absolutely nothing with them, missing the net or jamming into the goalie. Smarts can only take you so far. You need finish as well. He earned continued looks, but at some point he needs to do something with his chances. And we need to see if he can get those chances against stronger competition.

Yeah, I missed the first trying to get my stream to work, so I didn't catch the plays you mentioned with Perunovich.

 

[Celtic Note]

I was the one guy thrilled we picked Neighbours and I just don't see how we could justify keeping him up this year when we already have tremendous depth at forward that's more experienced.

Let him continue on his current trajectory which has him on track to make the team out of camp next year.

Honestly, I would really like to see him develop his offensive game before he makes the jump. We may hamstring him if he is rushed. I would rather see his potential be in the middle 6 range than rush him just because he looks like an NHL player that can handle 4th line minutes and cap his potential to the bottom 6 range.

He looks like he could very well be an energy guy today. But, I would hope we can develop him into more than that.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Honestly, I would really like to see him develop his offensive game before he makes the jump. We may hamstring him if he is rushed. I would rather see his potential be in the middle 6 range than rush him just because he looks like an NHL player that can handle 4th line minutes and cap his potential to the bottom 6 range.

He looks like he could very well be an energy guy today. But, I would hope we can develop him into more than that.

I think you can do both in the NHL, it's what we did with Schwartz in his rookie season.

For the most part or even completely, I think we've done a good job at determining when a young player is ready. Thompson was forced up because of injuries. Are there any other examples of young guys we clearly brought up too early that wasn't forced by injuries, or guys that we kept down too long? Goalies not included, since there is a lot of nuance in those decisions.

 

[TK 421]

Honestly, I would really like to see him develop his offensive game before he makes the jump. We may hamstring him if he is rushed. I would rather see his potential be in the middle 6 range than rush him just because he looks like an NHL player that can handle 4th line minutes and cap his potential to the bottom 6 range.

He looks like he could very well be an energy guy today. But, I would hope we can develop him into more than that.

Exactly.

One thing I think gets overlooked at times is that when players change leagues or quality of competition it requires an adjustment period that changes their trajectory in terms of both what they'll actually be capable of and how soon they'll actually be able to do it. Or as rumrokh mentioned, how does their conditioning hold up over an entire season? That's very often THE deciding factor.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I think you can do both in the NHL, it's what we did with Schwartz in his rookie season.

For the most part or even completely, I think we've done a good job at determining when a young player is ready. Thompson was forced up because of injuries. Are there any other examples of young guys we clearly brought up too early that wasn't forced by injuries, or guys that we kept down too long? Goalies not included, since there is a lot of nuance in those decisions.

Agreed. And if he is even close to ready seems like his game is more advanced by being here than going down to WHL to dominate. Would like to see him get 9 games between now and WJC and then we can determine whether he should go back at that point. Unless he clearly isn't ready, sending him down now seems detrimental to his development.

 

[WeWentBlues]

Is there a scenario where Neighbors could remain with the NHL club but not be on 23 man active roster?

If he returns to juniors, he won't be with the NHL club until after April 3, 2022 at the earliest or longer depending on postseason.
If he makes the NHL team, he can't be reassigned to the AHL until March 29, 2022 when he turns 20.

With an already crowded forward group, I don't see any way he's making the team unless he can be with the NHL club but not on the active 23 man roster. However, I don't think that's an option.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Is there a scenario where Neighbors could remain with the NHL club but not be on 23 man active roster?

If he returns to juniors, he won't be with the NHL club until after April 3, 2022 at the earliest or longer depending on postseason.
If he makes the NHL team, he can't be reassigned to the AHL until March 29, 2022 when he turns 20.

With an already crowded forward group, I don't see any way he's making the team unless he can be with the NHL club but not on the active 23 man roster. However, I don't think that's an option.

Think the only way that can happen is if he is injured.

 

[MissouriMook]

Think the only way that can happen is if he is injured.

 

[Celtic Note]

I think you can do both in the NHL, it's what we did with Schwartz in his rookie season.

For the most part or even completely, I think we've done a good job at determining when a young player is ready. Thompson was forced up because of injuries. Are there any other examples of young guys we clearly brought up too early that wasn't forced by injuries, or guys that we kept down too long? Goalies not included, since there is a lot of nuance in those decisions.

Schwartz played under 10 games his first season. He then played half a season in the AHL and then come up.

Schwartz was also more polished offensively. He didn’t have one very good junior year like Neighbours, but multiple ones in the NCAA. Schwartz was clearly a better prospect at the same stage in their respective careers.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Schwartz played under 10 games his first season. He then played half a season in the AHL and then come up.

Schwartz was also more polished offensively. He didn’t have one very good junior year like Neighbours, but multiple ones in the NCAA. Schwartz was clearly a better prospect at the same stage in their respective careers.

I'm talking about his first full season, which was shortened because of a lockout. I'm not denying that Schwartz was a better prospect, just that you can develop someone that has top 6/9 aspirations on the 4th line to start. Schwartz that year did all the little things, but wasn't quite there on the production. If Neighbours can be a puck hound in a similar way on the 4th line, I think that can benefit his development more than being in juniors, similar to how it was with Schwartz. I remember watching him play in Peoria during the work stoppage, and even there his production didn't match his talent, but it was pretty clear he was the best player on the ice and he didn't have much to gain there.

I'm not saying Neighbours is that right now, just that the idea that we could have him play on the 4th line, wouldn't limit him to not being able to develop his offensive game while playing those minutes.

 

[67Blues]

Think the only way that can happen is if he is injured.

Calling Tonya Harding, Jeff Gillooly and Company.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Calling Tonya Harding, Jeff Gillooly and Company.

That’s not Tonya Harding,

 

[ezcreepin]

They need to change the rules for AHL eligibility for North American born players.

100% this. I don't think Neighbors is quite NHL ready, but I do think he's at the point where another season in juniors isn't going to do much for him.

I mean this would be a pointless maneuver to do, but could the Blues keep him up till he turns 20 (in late March....) and then send him down to play in the AHL?

 

[MissouriMook]

I mean this would be a pointless maneuver to do, but could the Blues keep him up till he turns 20 (in late March....) and then send him down to play in the AHL?

I don't think so. I think the rule specifically states that AHL assignment while the junior team's season is still ongoing is only for players who turn 20 on or before December 31 of that season.

 

[Brian39]

Neighbours looks good enough to play in the NHL. The big question is how good he'll look against full NHL squads at full NHL intensity. And then, how long can he keep that up and in what role? Those are huge questions it's very difficult if not impossible for fans to answer. Some players are ready in all ways other than conditioning and it's not worth risking the player's health. I'm looking forward to how he continues to look and what the coaching staff says as he survives roster cuts.

My first impressions are that he is not yet good enough to hang with full NHL squads at regular season intensity and actually contribute positively for any length of time. But I have very little confidence in that assessment.

However, even if I could guarantee that I'm right, I think I want him here as part of the opening day 23 man roster. Even if we never dress him in a regular season game, I'd like for him to get a month or so of time working with our trainers, working with our coaches, and seeing first hand what it means to be a pro. This will get him valuable experience and allow our staff to tailor an in-season plan for him after picking apart his game with a fine tooth comb. That route should maximize what he can get out of his junior season. Given our depth and the potential of signing Neal, I'm comfortable prioritizing the development of Neighbours over the risk of losing guys like Clifford/Mac to waivers.

The NHL and the CHL need to change their agreement. My suggestions:

1: The current restriction only applies to players in their draft +1 season.
2: Each team gets an exception to the existing rule. So each year, one of the kids who would normally get sent back to junior can go to the AHL.
3: Same as suggestion 2, but only every other year.
4: Exclude 1st round picks from the existing rule.
5: A combination of suggestion #1 and #4. The existing rule still applies, except 1st round picks can go to the AHL in their draft +2 season even if they are 19

I think any of the above suggestions is a decent compromise. None of them would destroy the talent pool of the CHL and some of them are so restrictive that only 10 or so guys each year could qualify to go the AHL. I totally get the CHL wanting to protect the talent level of their league and I get the NHL/AHL interest in preventing an influx of dozens of teenagers. There are a lot of 18 and 19 year olds not ready for the current AHL and I like the AHL as a "man's league" rather than a young prospect league that sacrifices overall quality so that NHL teams can keep a closer eye on their prospects. But I would really like to see some of these tweeners given a chance to get AHL time.

 

[Celtic Note]

I like the idea of giving Neighbours the trial and sending him back. But, what is the opportunity cost? Will we have to lose anyone significant to make that happen?

 

[67Blues]

That’s not Tonya Harding,

Those were the henchmen who planned and carried out the crime, thus the "Company"

 

[Ranksu]

At this stage I don't mind losing Clifford. He is expendable.

 

[Brian39]

I like the idea of giving Neighbours the trial and sending him back. But, what is the opportunity cost? Will we have to lose anyone significant to make that happen?

ROR, Perron, Schenn, Tarasenko, Buch, Saad, Thomas, Kyrou, and Bozak are all locks to make the opening roster barring a trade. Barby is almost certainly a lock as well, which brings us to 10 forwards. That leaves 4 more openings. Sunny is a lock if healthy, but I think he at least starts the year on IR (if not LTIR). So I'm assuming that we have 4 open spots out of camp (and if Neighbors gets his tryout it could end when Sunny is ready). If Sunny is ready to go for opening night then there are only 3 roster spots up for grabs.

Kostin, Clifford, MacMac, Neighbors, Neal, Frolik, Walker, Joshua and Brown are the guys I'd say have any shot at those roster spots. Of that group:

Kostin, Joshua, and Neighbours do not have to pass through waivers if they don't make the 23 man roster. If Neighbors doesn't make the 23 man roster he can only go back to junior and he would have to stay there all season. Kostin and Joshua would go to the AHL and could be recalled to the NHL whenever.

Clifford, MacMac, Brown and Walker all need to pass through waivers if they don't make the 23 man roster. All 3 would go to the AHL if sent down.

Neal and Frolik are on PTOs, which means that they are currently free to sign with any NHL team. If they sign with us and don't make the 23 man roster, they would need to clear waivers in order to be sent to the AHL.

 

[Celtic Note]

ROR, Perron, Schenn, Tarasenko, Buch, Saad, Thomas, Kyrou, and Bozak are all locks to make the opening roster barring a trade. Barby is almost certainly a lock as well, which brings us to 10 forwards. That leaves 4 more openings. Sunny is a lock if healthy, but I think he at least starts the year on IR (if not LTIR). So I'm assuming that we have 4 open spots out of camp (and if Neighbors gets his tryout it could end when Sunny is ready). If Sunny is ready to go for opening night then there are only 3 roster spots up for grabs.

Kostin, Clifford, MacMac, Neighbors, Neal, Frolik, Walker, Joshua and Brown are the guys I'd say have any shot at those roster spots. Of that group:

Kostin, Joshua, and Neighbours do not have to pass through waivers if they don't make the 23 man roster. If Neighbors doesn't make the 23 man roster he can only go back to junior and he would have to stay there all season. Kostin and Joshua would go to the AHL and could be recalled to the NHL whenever.

Clifford, MacMac, Brown and Walker all need to pass through waivers if they don't make the 23 man roster. All 3 would go to the AHL if sent down.

Neal and Frolik are on PTOs, which means that they are currently free to sign with any NHL team. If they sign with us and don't make the 23 man roster, they would need to clear waivers in order to be sent to the AHL.

Thanks for the breakdown. It seems to me that given your info we could easily accommodate holding Neighbours temporarily.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

I can't remember a season where I had less certainty about who was likely to get cut or make the final roster out of training camp. And that's not even including the twist that Tarasenko's situation introduces. This is a pretty fun off-season and will provide an interesting team no matter how cuts shake out. There will be new players and young guys trying to make a name for themselves in some combination of: Kostin, Perunovich, Neighbors, Brown, Walman, Mikkola, or PTO guys trying to hang on for one more year as an NHL player.

 

[jura]

Blues assign Dickinson to OHL

by Chris Pinkert / St. Louis Blues
September 28, 2021

The St. Louis Blues have assigned Tanner Dickinson to the Sault Ste. Marie Greyhounds of the Ontario Hockey League.
Dickinson, the Blues' fourth-round pick (No. 119 overall) in the 2020 NHL Draft, played 12 minutes and 55 seconds in Monday's 2-1 overtime win against the Dallas Stars.

The Blues' training camp roster is now at 52 players