Patriots/NFL 2021 Season II: 1-2; Week 4 vs. TB

[CDJ]

Do we have any need for Jamie Collins? I feel like if we are elevating Bower from the PS there’s at least a little room for him here. Particularly if Hightower doesn’t fully come around

he’s very very available and Bill is seemingly the only guy that can get the most out of him

 

[DangleCity]

So he has the right to do what he did, but you don't like it? Got it. We're good here.

Seems like the issue is you don't like that I said he quit. Call it whatever you want, but he clearly wanted out

 

[DangleCity]

Do we have any need for Jamie Collins? I feel like if we are elevating Bower from the PS there’s at least a little room for him here. Particularly if Hightower doesn’t fully come around

he’s very very available and Bill is seemingly the only guy that can get the most out of him

I don't think there is huge need for him. They need run game players. I suppose though if they want to give him away the Patriots could use him as depth

 

[CDJ]

I don't think there is huge need for him. They need run game players. I suppose though if they want to give him away the Patriots could use him as depth

they'll probably end up cutting him from the sounds of it- they don’t exactly have a ton of leverage after coming out and saying he’s not going to play for them and Dan Campbell seems to have a lot of respect for him so they may just let him pick his next spot

 

[Smitty93]

Alex Guerrero: Bill Belichick treated Tom Brady like a 20-year-old kid, not a 40-year-old man

With Brady's dad doing press on this already and now this from Guerrero, this is setting up next week to be a real doozy...

So one general comment on this. I'm willing to bet that 99% of Brady-related leaks come from one of three people: Brady Sr., Don Yee, and Alex Guerrero. I can accept two of those.

With Brady Sr., we've known for years that he can't help himself when it comes to the media. I'm never going to blame a parent for speaking out and defending their kid. It's human nature. With Yee, he's literally paid to advocate for Brady. Where I have a problem is Guerrero.

Here's a guy who's made Brady his meal ticket. If you go look at the Boston Herald article, half of it basically a free advertisement for the TB12 health brand. I can't blame him alone though. We know Guerrero sucks (I don't think I need to go over his snake oil salesman history) and Karen Guregian and other local media have shamefully given him free publicity over and over again. That bothers me more than anything else.

 

[LSCII]

Seems like the issue is you don't like that I said he quit. Call it whatever you want, but he clearly wanted out

No, not at all. In fact, I love when you say he "quit" because it's amusing.

The issue I have is that you've continually avoided the question I've asked you hundreds of times now, including earlier today. I'll give it to you one more time since you keep avoiding it: Why does Rob Gronkowski owe this organization any loyalty when they've shown him zero in return? Because he has a contract is and has already been acknowledged by you as a strawman since you even said he had the right to retire. So why do you as a fan expect him to give loyalty when none came in return?

 

[DangleCity]

No, not at all. In fact, I love when you say he "quit" because it's amusing.

The issue I have is that you've continually avoided the question I've asked you hundreds of times now, including earlier today. I'll give it to you one more time since you keep avoiding it: Why does Rob Gronkowski owe this organization any loyalty when they've shown him zero in return? Because he has a contract is and has already been acknowledged by you as a strawman since you even said he had the right to retire. So why do you as a fan expect him to give loyalty when none came in return?

How were they not loyal. He was the highest paid TE for years. Is questioning his rehab equate to not being loyal? It seems pretty clear the issue was he was not having fun and the fact that Bill ran a tight ship. I don't see that as a failure on the Patriots end.

 

[LSCII]

How were they not loyal. He was the highest paid TE for years. Is questioning his rehab equate to not being loyal? It seems pretty clear the issue was he was not having fun and the fact that Bill ran a tight ship. I don't see that as a failure on the Patriots end.

Again, they tried to trade him. They made him undergo treatments that ended up injuring him further. Instead of just giving him more $ when it was clear he was underpaid, they made it into bonuses that were virtually impossible to collect on.

 

[CDJ]

Who cares? Honestly at this point it’s the same people making the same argument for the second year. Nobody is changing their minds

I’ve got no problem with Gronk

 

[DangleCity]

Again, they tried to trade him. They made him undergo treatments that ended up injuring him further. Instead of just giving him more $ when it was clear he was underpaid, they made it into bonuses that were virtually impossible to collect on.

It was never about his contract. He was more than fairly compensated here. He got plenty of raises and was the highest paid TE most years.

Pats' Gronk gets $4.3M raise, highest paid tight end in NFL

At the end of the day it came down to not wanting to play for Bill.

 

[DangleCity]

Who cares? Honestly at this point it’s the same people making the same argument for the second year. Nobody is changing their minds

I’ve got no problem with Gronk

I'll never be okay with how he left. He left the team in a bad spot. Plus the whole press conference and the crying just left a bad taste. Brady played out his final year. Gronk could have done the same

 

[CDJ]

I'll never be okay with how he left. He left the team in a bad spot. Plus the whole press conference and the crying just left a bad taste. Brady played out his final year. Gronk could have done the same

he could barely walk after making a super bowl winning catch, the team tried to trade him, it is what it is. If that offends you then that offends you but it’s a weird stance to take for somebody that helped the franchise so much

The crying to me leaves the opposite of a bad taste. This guys not winning any oscars, it speaks to how miserable he was. I was completely fine with him taking a year off, and I’m completely fine with us trading him so he could go play with the only QB he said he’d ever play with

 

[LSCII]

It was never about his contract. He was more than fairly compensated here. He got plenty of raises and was the highest paid TE most years.

Pats' Gronk gets $4.3M raise, highest paid tight end in NFL

At the end of the day it came down to not wanting to play for Bill.

Did you read more than the title? Because you're making my point for me. INCENTIVES. Not in guarantees. He had to earn them and most were not reachable. They did the same thing to Brady around the same time too. Saying you can earn up to $4.3 mill in a chance to be the highest paid TE does not mean he was or did. Spoiler alert, he didn't because most of the incentives were not attainable.

I mean shit, I could tell you I'll give you $50 million dollars if you reach various incentives, but if you have no realistic way to reach them, what did I really give you?

 

[DangleCity]

Did you read more than the title? Because you're making my point for me. INCENTIVES. Not in guarantees. He had to earn them and most were not reachable. They did the same thing to Brady around the same time too. Saying you can earn up to $4.3 mill in an chance to be the highest paid TE does not mean he was or did. Spoiler alert, he didn't because most of the incentives were not attainable.

I mean shit, I could tell you I'll give you $50 million dollars if you reach various incentives, but if you have no realistic way to reach them, what did I really give you?

The incentives were 1000 yards and 8 tds. (His stats from the year prior) How are those unattainable? They were basically tied to him being on the field. His base salary was $9 million with a chance to earn another $4.3. Seems like more than a fair contract.

 

[LSCII]

The incentives were 1000 yards and 8 tds. (His stats from the year prior) How are those unattainable? They were basically tied to him being on the field. His base salary was $9 million with a chance to earn another $4.3. Seems like more than a fair contract.

Not entirely accurate on your end, which I have to assume given our interactions was intentional.

From the article itself:

The nine-year veteran would receive incentives of $1.1 million for 70 catches, playing 80 percent of the offensive snaps, nine touchdown catches and 1,085 yards receiving. However, he can collect on no more than three incentives.
Gronkowski had 69 catches for 1,084 yards and eight touchdowns in 14 games last season.

 

[KrejciMVP]

The incentives were 1000 yards and 8 tds. (His stats from the year prior) How are those unattainable? They were basically tied to him being on the field. His base salary was $9 million with a chance to earn another $4.3. Seems like more than a fair contract.

Bill tried to trade him to one of the worst franchises in pro sports

 

[DangleCity]

Not entirely accurate on your end, which I have to assume given our interactions was intentional.

From the article itself:

The numbers are still not unattainable. Again contract was more than fair.

 

[DangleCity]

Bill tried to trade him to one of the worst franchises in pro sports

He should have been thrilled then since he apparently wanted out.

 

[KrejciMVP]

He should have been thrilled then since he apparently wanted out.

most athletes would want out after a trade attempt. sorry but Bill made his bed there

 

[CDJ]

Let’s do it

 

[DangleCity]

most athletes would want out after a trade attempt. sorry but Bill made his bed there

That's part of being a pro athlete. I get wanting out of NE because of Bill and the atmosphere and he has every right. Buts let's just call it what it is. The guy quit his last year here. Brady was out the door as well his last year, but he didn't sit at home.

 

[KrejciMVP]

That's part of being a pro athlete. I get wanting out of NE because of Bill and the atmosphere and he has every right. Buts let's just call it what it is. The guy quit his last year here. Brady was out the door as well his last year, but he didn't sit at home.

all hyperbole. Gronk announced his intentions right after the superbowl. he had no effect on 2019

 

[LSCII]

The numbers are still not unattainable. Again contract was more than fair.

Nah, but I don't expect you to grasp this concept. The numbers were all tied to his health. And he hadn't been healthy for years. Including that season where he was banged up going into it, and he barely played in the preseason because he was dinged up. And guess what? He missed time that year too. Shocking I know. Who would have imagined that a guy that only played the full season 2 times in his career, and at the very start of it too boot, playing one of the most physical positions for offensively skilled players, would get hurt? I mean his incentive was to catch 70 balls, but they only targeted him 72 times that year. And he was used in the blocking game a shit ton.

But again, the question is why would they leverage the guy when he'd been as productive as any TE in history? Why make it all incentive based, when they knew he would likely not reach them given his lack of health? Oh yeah, because they could say we gave him more money, he just had to earn it and didn't, with very little threat of having to pay a dime.

 

[CDJ]

Gronk was also clearly a shell of himself even despite that super bowl catch, to me it was clear he wasn’t physically right and needed to rest his body

The guy likely took years off of his life in the pursuit of winning Super Bowls here, I’ll give him a pass for wanting to go join his buddy in florida…where many New Englanders go to spend their winter

 

[DangleCity]

Nah, but I don't expect you to grasp this concept. The numbers were all tied to his health. And he hadn't been healthy for years. Including that season where he was banged up going into it, and he barely played in the preseason because he was dinged up. And guess what? He missed time that year too. Shocking I know. Who would have imagined that a guy that only played the full season 2 times in his career, and at the very start of it too boot, playing one of the most physical positions for offensively skilled players, would get hurt? I mean his incentive was to catch 70 balls, but they only targeted him 72 times that year. And he was used in the blocking game a shit ton.

But again, the question is why would they leverage the guy when he'd been as productive as any TE in history? Why make it all incentive based, when they knew he would likely not reach them given his lack of health? Oh yeah, because they could say we gave him more money, he just had to earn it and didn't, with very little threat of having to pay a dime.

Because, no one gets special treatment in NE. Gronk and Brady wanted special treatment. Ofcourse his contract was tied to his health, he had a long history of being banged up. That's how it works. His salary was right in line with his peers.