WJC: 2021 Russia Roster Talk

[Statsy]

I thought I would never see a coach on a team Russia worse than Plyuschev but here it is - Igor Larionov. I remember reading Alyonka Larionov's comment how Igor commented once when she was very young something about her weight and how it affected her, when she grew up she had some major issues with eating disorders and I though he is a horrible father. Now I see he is also a horrible coach. At this point for U20 kids you need as much of a coach as a father figure - he is neither. No hope for this team because miracles do not happen in hockey at this level.

Well, I'm not going to comment on his fathering, but I disagree with your take on his coaching. In fact after the first game I would've said this team has been quite well coached. Obviously today was more of a struggle, but to be honest I think the offensive ability of this roster has been overrated from the start. If your team doesn't have the talent to finish, that's not something you are going to be able to coach into them in a short period (or ever really). Larionov has a different approach from Bragin and I don't just mean the on ice tactics. It's tempting for people to want to fly off the handle because of one bad game, but I really think the jury's out on this Russian team and we will have to wait and see how they respond to this setback.

 

[wings5]

I thought I would never see a coach on a team Russia worse than Plyuschev but here it is - Igor Larionov. I remember reading Alyonka Larionov's comment how Igor commented once when she was very young something about her weight and how it affected her, when she grew up she had some major issues with eating disorders and I though he is a horrible father. Now I see he is also a horrible coach. At this point for U20 kids you need as much of a coach as a father figure - he is neither. No hope for this team because miracles do not happen in hockey at this level.

Calm down, it's still early and none of the big teams have looked that great other than maybe Sweden

 

[Caser]

Larionov told that Abramov will get the chance Vs. Austria, so I guess some notable line changes are expected.

 

[Passionis]

I thought I would never see a coach on a team Russia worse than Plyuschev but here it is - Igor Larionov. I remember reading Alyonka Larionov's comment how Igor commented once when she was very young something about her weight and how it affected her, when she grew up she had some major issues with eating disorders and I though he is a horrible father. Now I see he is also a horrible coach. At this point for U20 kids you need as much of a coach as a father figure - he is neither. No hope for this team because miracles do not happen in hockey at this level.

There was hope on how team played before. But when Russia starts losing, that's when I see he doesn't have that Bragin factor of "wake the f*** up!" for his players.

 

[Passionis]

Well, I'm not going to comment on his fathering, but I disagree with your take on his coaching. In fact after the first game I would've said this team has been quite well coached. Obviously today was more of a struggle, but to be honest I think the offensive ability of this roster has been overrated from the start. If your team doesn't have the talent to finish, that's not something you are going to be able to coach into them in a short period (or ever really). Larionov has a different approach from Bragin and I don't just mean the on ice tactics. It's tempting for people to want to fly off the handle because of one bad game, but I really think the jury's out on this Russian team and we will have to wait and see how they respond to this setback.

Question is - is he the kind of coach than can turn his team around???

Does he have the balls to shake them up like Bragin did???

Because to win at WJC, coach that can inspire character in his players is huge, and THAT is where Bragin was awesome!

Good coaching is not just nice tactics and empowering skill, it's whatever it takes to win - and Larionov still has a lot to prove in that department. I'm NOT saying he can't, but he has stl to prove it and this game does not help- we will see!

 

[Passionis]

Also, how about that PP? Larionov was in charge of it last year and it was also shit. I have my concerns he's the common denominator here.

 

[Garl]

I thought I would never see a coach on a team Russia worse than Plyuschev but here it is - Igor Larionov. I remember reading Alyonka Larionov's comment how Igor commented once when she was very young something about her weight and how it affected her, when she grew up she had some major issues with eating disorders and I though he is a horrible father. Now I see he is also a horrible coach. At this point for U20 kids you need as much of a coach as a father figure - he is neither. No hope for this team because miracles do not happen in hockey at this level.

Plyuschev won WJC no? He was not very succesful on senior level, but he was succesful with young guys at some point. Couldnt repeat this, because his harsh methods were working on guys who grew up in the 90s, but not with the 2000s kids.

Now, on Larionov the "horrible father". You think he was harsh to his daughter?

 

[Passionis]

Plyuschev won WJC no? He was not very succesful on senior level, but he was succesful with young guys at some point. Couldnt repeat this, because his harsh methods were working on guys who grew up in the 90s, but not with the 2000s kids.

Now, on Larionov the "horrible father". You think he was harsh to his daughter?

I think the point is his coaching is very questionable still and despite some minor success there are pretty serious reasons for concern.

 

[VVP]

Plyuschev won WJC no? He was not very succesful on senior level, but he was succesful with young guys at some point. Couldnt repeat this, because his harsh methods were working on guys who grew up in the 90s, but not with the 2000s kids.

Now, on Larionov the "horrible father". You think he was harsh to his daughter?

Yes, he did. Sometimes you have great enough roster as well as some good bounces going your way and anybody can win. That was Plyuschev. It doesn't cancel the fact he was a bad coach and even worse human being.

As far Larionov being harsh to his daughter. I don't know that, all I know is he may have been one of the reasons his daughter struggled for years with the eating disorders. I assume he is just not that smart. You need to be an idiot putting so much pressure on his daughter like that.

 

[Garl]

Yes, he did. Sometimes you have great enough roster as well as some good bounces going your way and anybody can win. That was Plyuschev. It doesn't cancel the fact he was a bad coach and even worse human being.

As far Larionov being harsh to his daughter. I don't know that, all I know is he may have been one of the reasons his daughter struggled for years with the eating disorders. I assume he is just not that smart. You need to be an idiot putting so much pressure on his daughter like that.

How do you know if he put any pressure at ther at all?
Every person is autonomous and unique. Parents are not entirely responsible for everything that their children feel or think. Lots of people blame parents for some failures in life, when in fact they had very nice, caring and loving parents, while another person, who had rough and harsh upbringing loves his parents who were not that good to him actually.

Quite possible that it was another way around, and Igor actually spoiled his daughter, and she became too egocentric which led to her developing some unhealthy habits. I met such people, you can say it is bad parenting, but again, parents do not own their kids, and they are autonomous people with their own perception.

As for Plyuschev, I don't like him either, but he was a succesful junior coach. Again, I tend to think that his methods worked better with older age groups and quite possible, he degenerated himself as a coach.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Yes, he did. Sometimes you have great enough roster as well as some good bounces going your way and anybody can win. That was Plyuschev. It doesn't cancel the fact he was a bad coach and even worse human being.

As far Larionov being harsh to his daughter. I don't know that, all I know is he may have been one of the reasons his daughter struggled for years with the eating disorders. I assume he is just not that smart. You need to be an idiot putting so much pressure on his daughter like that.

Not that smart? He is a very intelligent and very cerebral person and player. I think, he is simply not that compassionate or affectionate, even with his children. He was a Soviet era robot raised and trained to play and win hockey games - I doubt that made it easy for him to be the most loving or supportive father.

There is a pretty good article about Alyonka Larionov from Katie Strang, one of my favorite writers for The Athletic (pay wall).
Alyonka Larionov, an "Untitled Female" no more

 

[Garl]

Btw, Alyonka is not a name. It is Alena. Alyonka is a derivative for little kids.

 

[stickty111]

Почему не играет Михаил Абрамов?
— Никто не застрахован от травм: посмотрим ситуацию после матча, кто как себя чувствует. Завтра примем решение. Планируется, что он сыграет с Австрией.
Taking from the Leafe board. Anyone know Russia can translate this? Google translated this to he is injured but you can't trust google though

 

[c9gunner]

Почему не играет Михаил Абрамов?
— Никто не застрахован от травм: посмотрим ситуацию после матча, кто как себя чувствует. Завтра примем решение. Планируется, что он сыграет с Австрией.

"Sometimes players get injured and we will check how everybody is doing after the game. We will make the final (roster) decision tomorrow. We are planning to dress him up against Austria" Larionov didn't really say whether Abramov was injured or not.

 

[Atas2000]

Btw, Alyonka is not a name. It is Alena. Alyonka is a derivative for little kids.

Shhhh! Leave us the great opportunity to make fun of foreigners

 

[Atas2000]

Not that smart? He is a very intelligent and very cerebral person and player. I think, he is simply not that compassionate or affectionate, even with his children. He was a Soviet era robot raised and trained to play and win hockey games - I doubt that made it easy for him to be the most loving or supportive father.

There is a pretty good article about Alyonka Larionov from Katie Strang, one of my favorite writers for The Athletic (pay wall).
Alyonka Larionov, an "Untitled Female" no more

You comments about how Larionov was supposedly raised rid me of any interest to read this. This is utter nonsense and full of modern day most perverted ideology.

Note that I am firmly in the anti-Larionov camp. But I like facts and love the truth.

 

[Atas2000]

I think the point is his coaching is very questionable still and despite some minor success there are pretty serious reasons for concern.

I dislike how we at nearly lightspeed enter the territory of monochromatic vision. It is not allowed to be concerned anymore. It is not allowed to talk about sample sizes and have successes and failures analyzed likewise.

Nobody is launching Larionov into the black hole just yet. But we have good reson to be concerned given what we saw.

 

[snipes]

You comments about how Larionov was supposedly raised rid me of any interest to read this. This is utter nonsense and full of modern day most perverted ideology.

Note that I am firmly in the anti-Larionov camp. But I like facts and love the truth.

Not the poster you quote but curious what makes you anti-Larionov? I’m genuinely curious, I’ve always thought Bragin was a fantastic coach. If he spoke English well, he’d be a great WHL coach with his style. The guy always got the absolute most out of his teams, they would block a puck with their face for Bragin.

This last game was a tough one for the Russians, I think they greatly underestimated the physicality and trap game that the Czechs played. The Czechs always play Russia tough though so it shouldn’t have been unexpected.

When the Russians were playing in previous games (in particular the 2nd period against the Yanks we saw that classic Russian counterattack style) their classic style it was beautiful hockey. I don’t think he had a plan to adapt to the trap though, he lacked the in game adjustments that Bragin was really good at making.

Give Larionov some time, it’s a systemic change needed for Russia to return to their more Soviet style of play. It needs to start at the grass roots levels for young players and work it’s way up. It’ll take time.

 

[ViD]

Team Russia vs Czechs is the worst Russian U20 team I have seen in years. No heart compared to Czech team.

Did you not watch last year’s world juniors ? That was the same outcome

 

[Yakushev72]

Any true Russian hockey fan yearns for the return of the Soviet school of beautiful and dominant hockey. It was almost like an art form, like the Bolshoi Ballet on ice, so beautiful to watch. But, as Larionov personally attested, being the loudest and most vocal critic of the Soviet hockey school back in the late 80's, it is an absolute bitch to train for. Soviet teams logged practice times, consistently, of 13-1400 hours of practice each year. The training was so grueling that Tretiak noted that "we pissed blood!" So you can't just throw 20 guys together who barely know each other and install that kind of intricate system for a 10-day youth tournament.

One of the hallmarks of the Soviet school was its focus on "muscle memory." In practice, everything was done at the fastest possible speed, even if passing was off the mark. In games, Soviet teams played at such a speed that it looked like opposing teams were standing still. In contrast, the Nutty Professor's system focuses everything on a slow build, constantly dropping backward passes to regroup. That made the Czechs job incredibly easy by allowing them to leisurely line up 5 defenders in the neutral zone, let the Russians play with the puck in their defensive zone as long as they wanted, but when they finally decided to come out, it took away any passing options and forced them to stickhandle through 5 defenders to get to the blueline. Now that the Nutty Professor's system is exposed, he faces the daunting task of trying to install changes with only two games left until the medal round.

So, is the attempt to revive the elements of the Soviet hockey school a lost cause? Not necessarily. They could do what Herb Brooks, USA coach of the Miracle on Ice did in advance of the 1980 Olympics. They could enter a Russian U20 National Team in the KHL or VHL for the full season, with the games counting in the standings, to avoid any "exhibition game" mentality. The boys would become men, and they would be tough to contend with in future WJC's.

 

[VVP]

Soviet era robot? That is the funniest thing I have read all day. How do people in the West come up with things like that? You can call Soviet raised people many things but robot? I haven't seen one Soviet raised person I could call that. In my opinion Soviets always had too many strong emotions compared to Westerners, but perhaps it is just me.

Bragin was the best U20 coach in the world because he always had his kids show up, win or lose. Movie called Coach Carter is what I think Bragin was for U20 team Russia for many years. Larionov is not, which would have been fine if he actually could build a team that played some kind of a system. In 2 games at the tournament I haven't seen anything that suggested that. Win against the US wasnt great in my book, could have easily been a loss if a couple of bounces didn't go Russia's way.

 

[CanuckistanFlyerfan]

Soviet era robot? That is the funniest thing I have read all day. How do people in the West come up with things like that? You can call Soviet raised people many things but robot? I haven't seen one Soviet raised person I could call that. In my opinion Soviets always had too many strong emotions compared to Westerners, but perhaps it is just me.

.

Then you are too young to have seen it. The Soviet teams were like a machine. They went out and operated the way they had trained thousands of times...and they damn well had better do it right.

When they scored, there was little to no emotion. Russian teams today are the exact opposite of that.

 

[c9gunner]

So far I have nothing to say against Larionov as the head coach. I noticed that he made some conceptual changes already and he is making some tweaks now. I'm ok with him as far as I see some progress. And honestly, I'm tired of Bragin and I don't think he was a good coach for the Junior Team. Yes, I remember 2011, but I think that Gold was more related to the overall talent level of that team than good coaching. After Buffalo Bragin was given 4 more chances to win Gold and he blew all of them. So, let's give Larionov some time before thrashing him.

 

[VVP]

Then you are too young to have seen it. The Soviet teams were like a machine. They went out and operated the way they had trained thousands of times...and they damn well had better do it right.

When they scored, there was little to no emotion. The "new" Russian teams are the exact opposite of that.

That is a pure non-sense somebody must have told you on your TV. Because all of you watch the same TV you get one dumb idea and then it gets re-translated so it becomes a one long urban legend you can't get rid of. How about you go and watch the clips of Soviet hockey teams instead. There is a plenty of it on Youtube. Find me a clip where Soviets scored goals and showed no emotion.

 

[c9gunner]

Just to clarify my post above - good coaching is not about winning Gold. In my books - good coaching is about exceeding expectations and bringing the team to a new level. I didn't see it with Bragin. He had some good teams, but he didn't make them great.