WJC: 2021 Russia Roster Talk

[TopC0rner]

I think Russia should have Knyazev on the first powerplay. That's where he shines the most.

 

[Atas2000]

Not the poster you quote but curious what makes you anti-Larionov? I’m genuinely curious, I’ve always thought Bragin was a fantastic coach. If he spoke English well, he’d be a great WHL coach with his style. The guy always got the absolute most out of his teams, they would block a puck with their face for Bragin.

This last game was a tough one for the Russians, I think they greatly underestimated the physicality and trap game that the Czechs played. The Czechs always play Russia tough though so it shouldn’t have been unexpected.

When the Russians were playing in previous games (in particular the 2nd period against the Yanks we saw that classic Russian counterattack style) their classic style it was beautiful hockey. I don’t think he had a plan to adapt to the trap though, he lacked the in game adjustments that Bragin was really good at making.

Give Larionov some time, it’s a systemic change needed for Russia to return to their more Soviet style of play. It needs to start at the grass roots levels for young players and work it’s way up. It’ll take time.

On the non-hockey side I dislike him as a person, to put it mildly. That does not mean I would not admit he could be a good or even great coach if he was that is.

And that brings me to the hockey side. First and foremost I think we have a Edmonton front-office situation from a couple of years ago all over here. Rotenberg Jr. obviously loves to have some past greats with big recognizable names around him(which is understandable as he is fairly young for his position). Then ffs give Larionov the best seat, invite him to some events with buffet and special guests. Giving him the reigns of the U20 NT right away without any track record and most importantly ahead of coaches who had to grind out all the way up the ladder is questionable at best and insulting to those coaches. Larionov literally had no time or opportunity to gather experience as head coach, go through victories AND losses, find out which of his ideas work or fail.

He looked completely lost for words in the presser yesterday. Mumbling something about "they blocked many shots". Grrreat! Maybe if he had more experience he would make the right simple move, just take all the blame, relieve pressure on the kids, avoid going into detail(we don't need to know(at least now) as we have no influence on what is happening in he locker room anyway).

That brings me to the personal level again a bit. It think he has huge ego. He is so entrenched in his self-perception as The Professor, that it would be hard for him to admit failure. I am worried he could put his ego ahead of team success, just to keep his fine vest on.

Back to hockey itself, as already mentioned in the thread he was given responsibility for the PP last year, it was horribad. His PP in this tournament is horribad. I see a pattern there.

Then you mention it, nothing about that czech game should have been unexpected. Not only was Larionov unprepared(his tactics were insanely blunt and simply not working), but never changed crap throughout the game. That is very concerning. Of course "they blocked many shots", but what did you do to avoid that?

There are basically two simple on paper ways to break up that czech defence. One is dump-ins. And while this is so not-russian some russian coaches did surprise and beat czech teams in the past when Russians started dumping it past the czech wall in the neutral zone and constantly just rushing in and fighting for pucks in the OZ.

Then there is the more russian approach of beating the trap through crisp passing in the neutral zone. It is helped by the very low forecheck by the Czechs. There literally was no czech forward forecheking beyond our blueline, so you'd have absolute freedom to start the breakout in the own zone without pressure. The big trick is you can't have extensive east-west passing in the neutral zone which is sort of a part of that soviet game Larionov wanted back. The passing in the neutral zone should be quick AND more north-south to try and send a guy in with the puck behind the trap. That also requires forwards to NOT go through the neutral zone at the same height. If they do, they just bump into the five czech guys completely clogging the neutral zone. It they attempt to pass to one another, there are three to five opponents between them. The problem yesterday was it happened all the time. Russians would try skating through the neutral zone at the same height. That left them without passing options as east-west passes were all well covered and resulted into them trying to bulldozer through czech defencemen at the boards and lose the puck mostly. It was like they never heard of shorter, faster cross-ice or north-south passes to put the puck behind the defensive line of Czechs.

Backpasses? They did try this when say Mukhamadullin would just beyond the own blue line majectically and slowly turn around completely to wait until everybody got his message he is going to pass it back to the accelerating guy behind him. Just too slow, too obvious and in the wrong place. That should have happened further up the ice, the drop passes should be shorter and the accelerating guy should be speeding like his life depends on it, not skating at average speed to give opposition time to adjust. It is again troubling as those drop passes were THE brand of soviet hockey Larionov is supposed to be a professor in.

The in-game adjustments. That is what experince gives you. Larionov does not have nearly enough of it as head coach. He should have been through dozens of games in which opponents try to play the trap against him. He wasn't.

I am willing to give it time and as I have already mentioned I have no problem with honoring good coaching from a guy I dislike on the personal level. But in my book then it should be like this: give Larionov a U16 team, or be superkind to him and give him the Michkov-Miroshnichenko team, let him work with them, go through some tournaments, learn the coaching trade. Just giving him the U20 right away looks pre-mature.

 

[stickty111]

"Sometimes players get injured and we will check how everybody is doing after the game. We will make the final (roster) decision tomorrow. We are planning to dress him up against Austria" Larionov didn't really say whether Abramov was injured or not.

Thanks.

 

[Yakushev72]

Soviet era robot? That is the funniest thing I have read all day. How do people in the West come up with things like that? You can call Soviet raised people many things but robot? I haven't seen one Soviet raised person I could call that. In my opinion Soviets always had too many strong emotions compared to Westerners, but perhaps it is just me.

Bragin was the best U20 coach in the world because he always had his kids show up, win or lose. Movie called Coach Carter is what I think Bragin was for U20 team Russia for many years. Larionov is not, which would have been fine if he actually could build a team that played some kind of a system. In 2 games at the tournament I haven't seen anything that suggested that. Win against the US wasnt great in my book, could have easily been a loss if a couple of bounces didn't go Russia's way.

Most of these "truisms" about Soviet hockey were formulated after the 1972 Series. The Canadian media had to have an explanation as to why the Soviets, who Canadian media predicted would be annihilated in 8 consecutive games, suddenly found themselves, after Game 5, within one win of annihilating the greatest pros in North America. What was particularly hard to explain, and justify, was how the highest paid players in the world seemed in many ways to be less skilled than these amateurs from the Soviet Union. In 1972, the NHL hockey manual published only 6 words: "Go Red Line, shoot puck in." Period. Having a strategy and system seemed inhuman to NHL fans of the time. NHL games were just an endless repetition of dump and chase. So when the Soviets came in, with their free-flowing passing networks and leaving their skating lanes, it seemed inhuman! Thus, the Soviet players were labeled as machines, not people.

 

[snipes]

On the non-hockey side I dislike him as a person, to put it mildly. That does not mean I would not admit he could be a good or even great coach if he was that is.

And that brings me to the hockey side. First and foremost I think we have a Edmonton front-office situation from a couple of years ago all over here. Rotenberg Jr. obviously loves to have some past greats with big recognizable names around him(which is understandable as he is fairly young for his position). Then ffs give him the best seat, invite him to some events with buffet and special guests. Giving him the reigns of the U20 NT right away without any track record and most importantly ahead of coaches who had to grind out all the way up the ladder is questionable at best and insulting to those coaches. Larionov literally had no time or opportunity to gather experience as head coach, go through victories AND losses, find out which of his ideas work or fail. He looked completely lost for words in the presser yesterday. Mumbling something about "they blocked many shots". Grrreat! Maybe if he had more experience he would make the right simple move, just take all the blame, relieve pressure on the kids, avoid going into detail(we don't need to know(at least now) as we have no influence on what is happening in he locker room anyway). That brings me to the personal level again a bit. It think he has huge ego. He is so entrenched in his self-perception as The Professor, that it would be hard for him to admit failure. I am worried he could put his ego ahead of team success, just to keep his fine vest on. Back to hockey itself, as already mentioned in the thread he was given responsibility for the PP last year, it was horribad. His PP in this tournament is horribad. I see a pattern there. Then you mention it, nothing about that czech game should have been unexpected. Not only was Larionov unprepared(his tactics were insanely blunt and simply not working), but never changed crap throughout the game. That is very concerning. Of course "they blocked many shots", but what did you do to avoid that? There are basically two simple on paper ways to break up that czech defence. One is dump-ins. And while this is so not-russian some russian coaches did surprise and beat czech teams in the past when Russians started dumping it past the czech wall in the neutral zone and constantly just rushing in and fighting for pucks in the OZ. Then there is the more russian approach of beating the trap through crisp npassing in the neutral zone. It is helped by the very low forecheck by the Czechs. There literally was no czech forward forecheking beyond out blueline, so you'd have absolute freedom to start the breakout in the own zone without pressure. The big trick is you can't have extensive east-west passing in the neutral zone which is sort of a part of that soviet game Larionov wanted back. The passing in the eutral zone should be quick AND more north-south to try and send a guy in with the puck behind the trap. That also requires forwards to NOT go through the neutral zone at the same height. If they do, they just bump into the five czech guys completely clogging the neutral zone. It they attempt to pass to one another, there are three to five opponents between them. The problem yesterday was it happened all the time. Russians would try skating through the neutral zone at the same height. That left them without passing options as east-west passes were all well covered and resulted into them trying to bulldozer through czech defnemen at the boards and lose the puck mostly. It was like they never heard of shorter, faster cross-ice or north-south passes to put the puck behind the defensive line of czechs. Backpasses? They did try this when say Mukhamadullin would just beyond the own blue line majectically and slowly turn around completely to wait until everybody got is message he is going to pass it back to the accelerating guy behind him. Just too slow, too obvious and in the wrong place. That should have happened further up the ice, te drop passes should be shorter and the accelerating guy should be speeding like his life depends on it, not skating at average speed to give opposition time to adjust. It is again troubling as those drop passes were THE brand of soviet hockey Larionov is supposed to be a professor in.

You also metion the in-game adjustments. That is what experince gives you. Larionov does not have nearly enough of it as head coach. He should have been thorugh dozens of games in which opponents try to play the trap against him. He wasn't.

I am willing to give it time and as I have already mentioned I have no problem with honoring good coaching from a guy I dislike on the personal level. But in my book then it should be like this: give Larionov a U16 team, or be superkind to him and give him the Michkov-Miroshnichenko team, let him work with them, go through some tournaments, learn the coaching trade. Just giving him the U20 right away looks pre-mature.

Thanks for information, that was a good post. I appreciate your insight into Russian hockey as usual.

I looked up some of that stuff with his daughter that I think you’re referring to for why you don’t like him as a person. Some interesting stuff there, but we’ll keep it just to hockey.

The thing is the Soviet looping style of counter attack isn’t new or foreign to teams like it was to Canada in 1972 and during the Soviet peak. The trap is how you can defend it, you can’t chase the puck under that classic Russian style.

I think Larionov will learn to make adjustments as he grows as a coach. Philosophically I do like that he’s returning to a more classic Russian style of hockey because when you guys are operating it properly, it’s one of the most beautiful styles of hockey to watch. It’s very different than the Canadian style of hockey, and that’s a good thing in my opinion.

It would be like if Canada tried to play a pure skill game, that’s not our style. The Canadian Way is a fast, heavy forechecking dumping the puck in and getting after the D men with suffocating in your face wave after wave pressure. That’s just our style of hockey and always has been, when we get away from the Canadian Way we don’t do well (see yesterday’s game — our forecheck was weak by our standards). Likewise, the same applies to the Russian style of hockey.

Even if it’s not Larionov at the helm, I do think you guys should keep trying to return to the classic Russian/Soviet style of hockey that made you guys the only other hockey Superpower besides Canada. We can learn and share lots from each others style of play. It’s going to take time to return to Tarasov’s classic approach, it’s going to have to start from the grass roots and young players trained in that system.

Likewise, Larionov is going to really need to learn in game adjustments. Bragin was excellent at that and motivating his guys to play a tough, physical game when needed. Larionov is a very intelligent guy, I’m sure he’ll learn from this. I expect Russia to bounce back from this game and finish their group play strong.

 

[Atas2000]

Thanks for information, that was a good post. I appreciate your insight into Russian hockey as usual.

I looked up some of that stuff with his daughter that I think you’re referring to for why you don’t like him as a person. Some interesting stuff there, but we’ll keep it just to hockey.

The thing is the Soviet looping style of counter attack isn’t new or foreign to teams like it was to Canada in 1972 and during the Soviet peak. The trap is how you can defend it, you can’t chase the puck under that classic Russian style.

I think Larionov will learn to make adjustments as he grows as a coach. Philosophically I do like that he’s returning to a more classic Russian style of hockey because when you guys are operating it properly, it’s one of the most beautiful styles of hockey to watch. It’s very different than the Canadian style of hockey, and that’s a good thing in my opinion.

It would be like if Canada tried to play a pure skill game, that’s not our style. The Canadian Way is a fast, heavy forechecking dumping the puck in and getting after the D men with suffocating in your face wave after wave pressure. That’s just our style of hockey and always has been, when we get away from the Canadian Way we don’t do well (see yesterday’s game — our forecheck was weak by our standards). Likewise, the same applies to the Russian style of hockey.

Even if it’s not Larionov at the helm, I do think you guys should keep trying to return to the classic Russian/Soviet style of hockey that made you guys the only other hockey Superpower besides Canada. We can learn and share lots from each others style of play. It’s going to take time to return to Tarasov’s classic approach, it’s going to have to start from the grass roots and young players trained in that system.

Likewise, Larionov is going to really need to learn in game adjustments. Bragin was excellent at that and motivating his guys to play a tough, physical game when needed. Larionov is a very intelligent guy, I’m sure he’ll learn from this. I expect Russia to bounce back from this game and finish their group play strong.

Yep, motivation is another point. Bragin is one of the greatest ever in that department. Larionov not so much so far.

And of course the more different approaches there are in hockey, the better. It makes the game intrguing and makes it grow and develop.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I thought Groshev stood out in a good way vs the Czechs. I wanted the Sens to draft him but they took a goalie I never heard of at 71

 

[snipes]

Yep, motivation is another point. Bragin is one of the greatest ever in that department. Larionov not so much so far.

And of course the more different approaches there are in hockey, the better. It makes the game intrguing and makes it grow and develop.

Canada and Russia need each other, we both push each other to be better as hockey nations. The classic Russian/Soviet style is so different than ours, and that’s why it makes for the best hockey. There is never a dull Canada v Russia game.

It’s an important kinship between our countries that I’m not sure our American neighbours fully appreciate the bond that Canada and Russia share through the hockey rivalry. Hockey is how Canadians express our culture and strength as a people, it’s extremely important to us and we regard Russian hockey and our competition against each other highly. You’re our greatest adversary in hockey.

I miss seeing Bragin behind the bench, I always looked forward to the November Super Series which generally overlapped on November 11th which is Remembrance Day (your equivalent of Victory Day in May). Hopefully it’s back next year.

I think Larionov just needs more experience and also a fundamental shift will take time to train young players at U-17 and under level in those systems. The modern game of hockey greatly benefited by the advancements the Soviets made, it improved the game overall and gave Canadians a new way to think about hockey.

This is all to say give it some time, it’s going to take substantial effort to fully implement this philosophical return to Soviet style of play. It’s not an easy style to just jump right into.

 

[Atas2000]

I thought Groshev stood out in a good way vs the Czechs. I wanted the Sens to draft him but they took a goalie I never heard of at 71

Yes, it is a bit of a surprise in a good and in a bad way that Larionov's bottom six looks really, really good out there, also in that game.

 

[Macman]

On the non-hockey side I dislike him as a person, to put it mildly. That does not mean I would not admit he could be a good or even great coach if he was that is.

Be honest. How much of your personal dislike for Larionov is based on the fact he's lived in North America for years and is also now a Canadian citizen?

 

[Tube Skates]

Most of these "truisms" about Soviet hockey were formulated after the 1972 Series. The Canadian media had to have an explanation as to why the Soviets, who Canadian media predicted would be annihilated in 8 consecutive games, suddenly found themselves, after Game 5, within one win of annihilating the greatest pros in North America. What was particularly hard to explain, and justify, was how the highest paid players in the world seemed in many ways to be less skilled than these amateurs from the Soviet Union. In 1972, the NHL hockey manual published only 6 words: "Go Red Line, shoot puck in." Period. Having a strategy and system seemed inhuman to NHL fans of the time. NHL games were just an endless repetition of dump and chase. So when the Soviets came in, with their free-flowing passing networks and leaving their skating lanes, it seemed inhuman! Thus, the Soviet players were labeled as machines, not people.

I remember this like it was yesterday. I was 10. All the children in my school were moved to the auditorium to watch hockey. It was awesome. The puck control of the Russia team was mesmerizing at that time. Tretiak was an acrobat. My Canadian hero’s frustrated and pulling their hair out trying to understand the circles being skated around them. Hacking slashing and the occasional submarine job was the only thing to slow the Red Machine down. Yakushev lived in my nightmares for years

 

[VVP]

I have been watching how teams are coached at different levels, Peewee, Bantam, Midget, U-18, U-20. For every truly talented coach there is 50 of average to mediocre coaches. While you can be a great skill development coach being a terrific team coach for junior to U-20 players is super rare. First of all almost none of these people have any education when it comes to dealing with kids. You have a school teacher who likely went into a university for years to be educated and hopefully learnt how to deal with young people and you have coaches who rarely have any sort of relevant higher education. That is why a great coach for any of these teams usually either a great parent or a super smart person who can analyze so many things. You need to have an ability to find triggers that will bring the best out of a kid in a shortest time possible. When I heard Larionov was talking to Canadian media about how he wants to introduce fun for the players to stick handle I was immediately alarmed. It is hard for me to admit it but while some practices can and should be fun there is no way "fun" should be the focus when you play against the best of your age. Did Czechs have any fun blocking gazzilion shots yesterday? Doubt it. It was all hard work (If I was the coach I would prepare kids to go to war to all of the games) followed by hard earned celebration after the game.

In all honesty I do not write this team completely off because I do believe it has enough talent to win the gold. I absolutely love Askarov, his energy that he brings to the game. I do like some other players a lot. But for this gold to happen a lot of things have to turn out right for team Russia and the most important is for Igor to wake up and make very serious adjustments.

 

[My3Sons]

On the non-hockey side I dislike him as a person, to put it mildly. That does not mean I would not admit he could be a good or even great coach if he was that is.

And that brings me to the hockey side. First and foremost I think we have a Edmonton front-office situation from a couple of years ago all over here. Rotenberg Jr. obviously loves to have some past greats with big recognizable names around him(which is understandable as he is fairly young for his position). Then ffs give Larionov the best seat, invite him to some events with buffet and special guests. Giving him the reigns of the U20 NT right away without any track record and most importantly ahead of coaches who had to grind out all the way up the ladder is questionable at best and insulting to those coaches. Larionov literally had no time or opportunity to gather experience as head coach, go through victories AND losses, find out which of his ideas work or fail.

He looked completely lost for words in the presser yesterday. Mumbling something about "they blocked many shots". Grrreat! Maybe if he had more experience he would make the right simple move, just take all the blame, relieve pressure on the kids, avoid going into detail(we don't need to know(at least now) as we have no influence on what is happening in he locker room anyway).

That brings me to the personal level again a bit. It think he has huge ego. He is so entrenched in his self-perception as The Professor, that it would be hard for him to admit failure. I am worried he could put his ego ahead of team success, just to keep his fine vest on.

Back to hockey itself, as already mentioned in the thread he was given responsibility for the PP last year, it was horribad. His PP in this tournament is horribad. I see a pattern there.

Then you mention it, nothing about that czech game should have been unexpected. Not only was Larionov unprepared(his tactics were insanely blunt and simply not working), but never changed crap throughout the game. That is very concerning. Of course "they blocked many shots", but what did you do to avoid that?

There are basically two simple on paper ways to break up that czech defence. One is dump-ins. And while this is so not-russian some russian coaches did surprise and beat czech teams in the past when Russians started dumping it past the czech wall in the neutral zone and constantly just rushing in and fighting for pucks in the OZ.

Then there is the more russian approach of beating the trap through crisp passing in the neutral zone. It is helped by the very low forecheck by the Czechs. There literally was no czech forward forecheking beyond our blueline, so you'd have absolute freedom to start the breakout in the own zone without pressure. The big trick is you can't have extensive east-west passing in the neutral zone which is sort of a part of that soviet game Larionov wanted back. The passing in the neutral zone should be quick AND more north-south to try and send a guy in with the puck behind the trap. That also requires forwards to NOT go through the neutral zone at the same height. If they do, they just bump into the five czech guys completely clogging the neutral zone. It they attempt to pass to one another, there are three to five opponents between them. The problem yesterday was it happened all the time. Russians would try skating through the neutral zone at the same height. That left them without passing options as east-west passes were all well covered and resulted into them trying to bulldozer through czech defnemen at the boards and lose the puck mostly. It was like they never heard of shorter, faster cross-ice or north-south passes to put the puck behind the defensive line of Czechs.

Backpasses? They did try this when say Mukhamadullin would just beyond the own blue line majectically and slowly turn around completely to wait until everybody got his message he is going to pass it back to the accelerating guy behind him. Just too slow, too obvious and in the wrong place. That should have happened further up the ice, the drop passes should be shorter and the accelerating guy should be speeding like his life depends on it, not skating at average speed to give opposition time to adjust. It is again troubling as those drop passes were THE brand of soviet hockey Larionov is supposed to be a professor in.

The in-game adjustments. That is what experince gives you. Larionov does not have nearly enough of it as head coach. He should have been thorugh dozens of games in which opponents try to play the trap against him. He wasn't.

I am willing to give it time and as I have already mentioned I have no problem with honoring good coaching from a guy I dislike on the personal level. But in my book then it should be like this: give Larionov a U16 team, or be superkind to him and give him the Michkov-Miroshnichenko team, let him work with them, go through some tournaments, learn the coaching trade. Just giving him the U20 right away looks pre-mature.

You make some excellent points here. It's unfortunate that a junior team is being asked to play yesterday's offense with no plan B. It's harder given that there was a short lead up to the tournament and only one exhibition game to get it right. The Russians also have something of a young team (Mukhamadullin is only 18 and is being asked to shoulder a substantial burden) with lots of guys just drafted on the roster. Hopefully for them Larionov can add some wrinkles to break the clogged blue line and create some defensive movement when on offense. The zone defense in hockey can be tough to beat but it isn't unbreakable if you have the right guys crossing the blue line (the speedy guys need to be given the puck with enough momentum that the defense has to back off). They have a bit of time to figure it out so presumably they will adjust somewhat.

 

[Passionis]

On the non-hockey side I dislike him as a person, to put it mildly. That does not mean I would not admit he could be a good or even great coach if he was that is.

And that brings me to the hockey side. First and foremost I think we have a Edmonton front-office situation from a couple of years ago all over here. Rotenberg Jr. obviously loves to have some past greats with big recognizable names around him(which is understandable as he is fairly young for his position). Then ffs give Larionov the best seat, invite him to some events with buffet and special guests. Giving him the reigns of the U20 NT right away without any track record and most importantly ahead of coaches who had to grind out all the way up the ladder is questionable at best and insulting to those coaches. Larionov literally had no time or opportunity to gather experience as head coach, go through victories AND losses, find out which of his ideas work or fail.

He looked completely lost for words in the presser yesterday. Mumbling something about "they blocked many shots". Grrreat! Maybe if he had more experience he would make the right simple move, just take all the blame, relieve pressure on the kids, avoid going into detail(we don't need to know(at least now) as we have no influence on what is happening in he locker room anyway).

That brings me to the personal level again a bit. It think he has huge ego. He is so entrenched in his self-perception as The Professor, that it would be hard for him to admit failure. I am worried he could put his ego ahead of team success, just to keep his fine vest on.

Back to hockey itself, as already mentioned in the thread he was given responsibility for the PP last year, it was horribad. His PP in this tournament is horribad. I see a pattern there.

Then you mention it, nothing about that czech game should have been unexpected. Not only was Larionov unprepared(his tactics were insanely blunt and simply not working), but never changed crap throughout the game. That is very concerning. Of course "they blocked many shots", but what did you do to avoid that?

There are basically two simple on paper ways to break up that czech defence. One is dump-ins. And while this is so not-russian some russian coaches did surprise and beat czech teams in the past when Russians started dumping it past the czech wall in the neutral zone and constantly just rushing in and fighting for pucks in the OZ.

Then there is the more russian approach of beating the trap through crisp passing in the neutral zone. It is helped by the very low forecheck by the Czechs. There literally was no czech forward forecheking beyond our blueline, so you'd have absolute freedom to start the breakout in the own zone without pressure. The big trick is you can't have extensive east-west passing in the neutral zone which is sort of a part of that soviet game Larionov wanted back. The passing in the neutral zone should be quick AND more north-south to try and send a guy in with the puck behind the trap. That also requires forwards to NOT go through the neutral zone at the same height. If they do, they just bump into the five czech guys completely clogging the neutral zone. It they attempt to pass to one another, there are three to five opponents between them. The problem yesterday was it happened all the time. Russians would try skating through the neutral zone at the same height. That left them without passing options as east-west passes were all well covered and resulted into them trying to bulldozer through czech defnemen at the boards and lose the puck mostly. It was like they never heard of shorter, faster cross-ice or north-south passes to put the puck behind the defensive line of Czechs.

Backpasses? They did try this when say Mukhamadullin would just beyond the own blue line majectically and slowly turn around completely to wait until everybody got his message he is going to pass it back to the accelerating guy behind him. Just too slow, too obvious and in the wrong place. That should have happened further up the ice, the drop passes should be shorter and the accelerating guy should be speeding like his life depends on it, not skating at average speed to give opposition time to adjust. It is again troubling as those drop passes were THE brand of soviet hockey Larionov is supposed to be a professor in.

The in-game adjustments. That is what experince gives you. Larionov does not have nearly enough of it as head coach. He should have been thorugh dozens of games in which opponents try to play the trap against him. He wasn't.

I am willing to give it time and as I have already mentioned I have no problem with honoring good coaching from a guy I dislike on the personal level. But in my book then it should be like this: give Larionov a U16 team, or be superkind to him and give him the Michkov-Miroshnichenko team, let him work with them, go through some tournaments, learn the coaching trade. Just giving him the U20 right away looks pre-mature.

Ye very accurate assessment here.

You could argue that him being a player in USSR then the NHL he would have a pretty good idea how to beat the trap, despite him not being a coach. Sadly I didn't see any adjustments yesterday or anything interesting at all to change the coarse of the game.

 

[Passionis]

You make some excellent points here. It's unfortunate that a junior team is being asked to play yesterday's offense with no plan B. It's harder given that there was a short lead up to the tournament and only one exhibition game to get it right. The Russians also have something of a young team (Mukhamadullin is only 18 and is being asked to shoulder a substantial burden) with lots of guys just drafted on the roster. Hopefully for them Larionov can add some wrinkles to break the clogged blue line and create some defensive movement when on offense. The zone defense in hockey can be tough to beat but it isn't unbreakable if you have the right guys crossing the blue line (the speedy guys need to be given the puck with enough momentum that the defense has to back off). They have a bit of time to figure it out so presumably they will adjust somewhat.

This team definitely does not get an excuse of a short camp, they've started earlier than everyone else, had good exposure in KHL and karjala cup and didn't take a 2 week break like team Canada.

I did think that it's not realistic to expect these guys to play anything remotely close to Soviet hockey - they already grew up in a different system, and on TOP of that he brought in a bunch of players who played in NA for last few years and already formed NA mentality. He's contradicting himself here.

Look at their passing, then go look at Soviet passing from 30 years ago - its not even close!

 

[My3Sons]

This team definitely does not get an excuse of a short camp, they've started earlier than everyone else, had good exposure in KHL and karjala cup and didn't take a 2 week break like team Canada.

I did think that it's not realistic to expect these guys to play anything remotely close to Soviet hockey - they already grew up in a different system, and on TOP of that he brought in a bunch of players who played in NA for last few years and already formed NA mentality. He's contradicting himself here.

Look at their passing, then go look at Soviet passing from 30 years ago - its not even close!

I think the short camp/prep issue plays into what you are saying though. The coach is asking for execution of a system that isn't very familiar to most of the players and it really requires some fine tuning to work. If Larionov has a long term plan that Russian hockey management buys into and it starts here with the goal of building towards something that all Russian national team players will know they have to execute it in future years, then ok, I get it. I'm not sure I agree but at least it's a plan with a purpose. Right now it just looks like the coach installed a complicated system that young players are struggling to adjust to in a short tournament under tough conditions against really good teams. That's not a good recipe for success to me. At least the players are listening to the coach and are all trying to play his system even if it isn't working very well yet. This suggests to me they will be receptive to adjustments and changes he might make which is better than the alternative.

 

[Atas2000]

You make some excellent points here. It's unfortunate that a junior team is being asked to play yesterday's offense with no plan B. It's harder given that there was a short lead up to the tournament and only one exhibition game to get it right. The Russians also have something of a young team (Mukhamadullin is only 18 and is being asked to shoulder a substantial burden) with lots of guys just drafted on the roster. Hopefully for them Larionov can add some wrinkles to break the clogged blue line and create some defensive movement when on offense. The zone defense in hockey can be tough to beat but it isn't unbreakable if you have the right guys crossing the blue line (the speedy guys need to be given the puck with enough momentum that the defense has to back off). They have a bit of time to figure it out so presumably they will adjust somewhat.

Both goals against yesterday were after mistakes by 18 year old defencemen(both very similar. First Mukhamadullin gave up the puck at the blueline resulting in a what should be a two on one and a half as Mukhammadullin was chasing the puck carrier to no avail. Funny enough though another 18 year old - Kuznetsov(who wasn't even playing with Mukhamadullin on the pairing) instead of taking the second guy who ultimately scored also chased the puck carrier. Then Chayka hastily decided to shoot as the last man back and an opponent right in front of him. Textbook situation. Blocked shot, breakaway.). You can go both ways: say that it is not all that bad, because they are young and it is okay to be mistake prone and ohterwise it would be an even game or just accept the reality of this D being on the weaker side no matter if it is because of lack of experience and not skill. They have to play the tournament with the roster they have. Those 18 year olds better mature fast as in learing to play safe in those situations.

And of course forwards need to score. I don't see Chinakhov or Amirov breaking through defences with speed and puck handling or Podkolzin outsmarting the defence as it was expected.

 

[LetsGoFlyers12]

Lost in the lackluster game plan, and lack of offensive results, has been the play of Askarov. We all know his potential is sky high, but he has looked very shaky and his rebound control has not been good. Is anyone else concerned with this?

 

[Atas2000]

Be honest. How much of your personal dislike for Larionov is based on the fact he's lived in North America for years and is also now a Canadian citizen?

1.He can live whereever he wants.
2.Taking another citizenship though is different to me. I don't understand people doing that(maybe except for athletes who do it to compete in international events). Yes, that makes me dislike a person. I maybe lived abroad longer than Larionov. It never was in question for me to take up a different citizenship. I am a Russian. That's how it is for me.
3.Larionov doing the stuff he is doing and saying the stuff he is saying is based on his personal views I strongly oppose. This is how the World is. People sometimes have opposing opinions and views.

I won't explain it further as it would be thoroughly off-topic.

 

[Atas2000]

Lost in the lackluster game plan, and lack of offensive results, has been the play of Askarov. We all know his potential is sky high, but he has looked very shaky and his rebound control has not been good. Is anyone else concerned with this?

Not at his age. He is still an underager there, remember? And very shaky is obviously overblowing it. He was rock solid mostly with a couple of bad rebounds, but also a couple of game changing saves. Looking at his overall progress I am not at all worried. And I expect him to be good to great throughout this tournament.

I also don't think Spencer Knight is a worse prospect than I thought of him before the Russia game.

 

[TeddyBare]

Couldn't point out one single positive from their last game

Their defense is absolutely brutal in the offensive zone.

 

[Passionis]

Actually I genuinely would like to know Larionovs motivation to stepping up to coaching Now? Why now? Why not before? Why do it at all?

With Bragin it was simple, he was relatively unknown and needed a job and FHR gave him a chance, and his motivations seemed much more genuine.

 

[c9gunner]

Couldn't point out one single positive from their last game

The single positive thing is that a loss in a round robin game is not really a big deal. Look at the last year game when Canada lost to Russia 6-0. I remember how the sky was falling among the Canadian fans. Somehow that loss didn't prevent the Canadian team from taking the Gold.

 

[majormajor]

Both goals against yesterday were after mistakes by 18 year old defencemen(both very similar. First Mukhamadullin gave up the puck at the blueline resulting in a what should be a two on one and a half as Mukhammadullin was chasing the puck carrier to no avail. Funny enough though another 18 year old - Kuznetsov(who wasn't even playin with Mukhamadullin on the pairing) instead of taking the second guy who ultimately scored also chased the puck carrier.

Watch again, Kuznetsov is not on the ice. Chistyakov is on the ice but not really in the play. Chinakhov is backchecking (I've been telling you, he is a good backchecker) and he has to cut off Rychlovsky, because Rychlovsky has Mukhamadullin cleanly beat. That is the right play. Mukhamadullin has a short window to switch over to Koffer, but he does not see him in time, and amazingly Rychlovsky found Koffer.

And of course forwards need to score. I don't see Chinakhov or Amirov breaking through defences with speed and puck handling or Podkolzin outsmarting the defence as it was expected.

As much as I have come to love Chinakhov I have low expectations of him weaving through the zone handling the puck. His transition game isn't that good. He is much better at pressuring D and winning pucks on the forecheck but Larionov's system does not utilize that. Amirov on the other hand is a great puckhandler. If even he can't gain the zone you have to wonder if Larionov's system is completely useless against a turtling defence, and it is time to give it up.

 

[Fantomas]

I have extremely low expectations for this year's team and my mind is already on next year.

We'll have real game-breaking talent with Chibrikov, Michkov, Miroshnichenko and Yurov. It's not fun to watch this year's scrubs.

I do think this year's team can medal though.