Prospect Info: 2021 NHL Draft Thread

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FirstRowUpperDeck

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May 20, 2014
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I think we draft a forward and in order of who might be available I really like Lucius, Sillinger, McTavish, Lysell, and Raty. Any of those guys and I’ll be excited.

I am always impressed with how much time some of you guys spend scouting the draft. I just cross my fingers, read a few top 50 lists and pray.

I'm with you on forward for the first round 1 pick, although somewhat worried that since they drafted so much "skilled forwards" last year, they may go another way, or take BPA.

I also wonder if the lack of games will push them towards players who made an impact (i.e., measurable results) in a big time program, or push them to players who have flashed skill, despite limited experience. I could see it going both ways.
 

Johno

Deserved it Tour - the sloppy seconds
Oct 30, 2013
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I am always impressed with how much time some of you guys spend scouting the draft. I just cross my fingers, read a few top 50 lists and pray.

I'm with you on forward for the first round 1 pick, although somewhat worried that since they drafted so much "skilled forwards" last year, they may go another way, or take BPA.

I also wonder if the lack of games will push them towards players who made an impact (i.e., measurable results) in a big time program, or push them to players who have flashed skill, despite limited experience. I could see it going both ways.

It’s a fun exercise and you really can get sucked into it. Can spend hours researching and comparing without even noticing!
 

Zapp

Owner of Fellas Club
Mar 14, 2016
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I am always impressed with how much time some of you guys spend scouting the draft. I just cross my fingers, read a few top 50 lists and pray.

I'm with you on forward for the first round 1 pick, although somewhat worried that since they drafted so much "skilled forwards" last year, they may go another way, or take BPA.

I also wonder if the lack of games will push them towards players who made an impact (i.e., measurable results) in a big time program, or push them to players who have flashed skill, despite limited experience. I could see it going both ways.



some of us just watch too much hokej

Seriously though prepare for a lot of wrong

this year has sucked for scouting and the OHL didn’t play at all. That’s a lot of talent that didn’t get looked at properly.

Rounds 1-3 are going to be more interesting than ever, with a lot of potential for later round steals
 
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Kcb12345

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Who are the best skaters/puck controllers who could be available around our pick? That's who I want
 

JeffP

had meat hello
Nov 30, 2010
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some of us just watch too much hokej

Seriously though prepare for a lot of wrong

this year has sucked for scouting and the OHL didn’t play at all. That’s a lot of talent that didn’t get looked at properly.

Rounds 1-3 are going to be more interesting than ever, with a lot of potential for later round steals

This draft kind of suits our ability to blow early picks and luck out in the later rounds
Revenue aside, this was the best season to bubble and miss

I too read the top 50 lists and have no idea wtf im looking at :D
 
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Magic Mittens

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Nov 2, 2006
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Could be a lot of interesting forwards at our pick.

Lysell
Raty
McTavish
Lucius
Robertsson
Tuomaala
Svechkov
Chibrikov
Sillinger

Raty could be interesting if he’s there. Once considered a top pick, but didn’t have the greatest year and was buried on the depth chart

Starting to get excited for both drafts this offseason. Hurry up playoffs
 

Johno

Deserved it Tour - the sloppy seconds
Oct 30, 2013
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Could be a lot of interesting forwards at our pick.

Lysell
Raty
McTavish
Lucius
Robertsson
Tuomaala
Svechkov
Chibrikov
Sillinger

Raty could be interesting if he’s there. Once considered a top pick, but didn’t have the greatest year and was buried on the depth chart

Starting to get excited for both drafts this offseason. Hurry up playoffs

I'd add Coronato as an interesting pick to that as well. Perhaps could be traded down for as well.
But yeah give me McTavish, Sillinger, Raty and I'm quite happy!

Raty does indeed have that possibility of being the value pick of the top 15 !
 
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FirstRowUpperDeck

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Watching that American team at the WC. Think we should draft those Roberston and Ottinger kids!

More seriously, for everyone who knocks our drafting as something below average, I keep looking at the Oil, who got two world class players in the last ten years (3, with Taylor Hall if you go back 11 years) and not a lot else. Have won only one playoff round since Nill got here.

Here's hoping we do well with whatever picks we get.
 

M88K

irreverent
May 24, 2014
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Watching that American team at the WC. Think we should draft those Roberston and Ottinger kids!

More seriously, for everyone who knocks our drafting as something below average, I keep looking at the Oil, who got two world class players in the last ten years (3, with Taylor Hall if you go back 11 years) and not a lot else. Have won only one playoff round since Nill got here.

Here's hoping we do well with whatever picks we get.
Yes the barometer for nills success is the failures of other organizations.
Hey at least we're not buffalo...
Who cares how much better this team would be if you gave any idiot a predraft list from basically anyone, but let's say McKenzie, and told them to go in that order.
I mean who needs a larkin, a barzal and a farabee. We're doing just fine barely making/missing the playoffs without them
 
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ZeHockeyFan

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Apr 9, 2014
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Yes the barometer for nills success is the failures of other organizations.
Hey at least we're not buffalo...
Who cares how much better this team would be if you gave any idiot a predraft list from basically anyone, but let's say McKenzie, and told them to go in that order.
I mean who needs a larkin, a barzal and a farabee. We're doing just fine barely making/missing the playoffs without them

Don't bother. If he/she is still whinging about this all over again, despite having this explained quite clearly, then it's useless at this juncture.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

Registered User
May 20, 2014
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Don't bother. If he/she is still whinging about this all over again, despite having this explained quite clearly, then it's useless at this juncture.

Ummm, it's you two who typify the whiny fan. And the ones who need continuing explaining as to reality.

Specifically, and to be fair, I am attributing some positions commonly found here that may not have come from you, but the typical, over emotional, under hockey educated fan, tends to think in black and white, as in, "Fire the GM", "Fire the Coach," Get rid of our top players," and "Rebuild the bottom six". No amount of data is going to sway you from your opinions. And, it is never that easy. A whole bunch of factors go into the success of a season.

If you were TG, and paying the bills, the reality of the situation is that Nill is a top 7 (or to you, as low as maybe 12) GM, certainly in the upper half of the league, probably top third. The real world question when considering replacing him is whether you will get that top 3 all time GM, or actually get one that may be up to significantly worse. Of course, any Hockey News ranking is skewed, but an ESPN list of possible GM candidates, with no experience, is golden.

I believe the chances are that the GM quality will go down if Nill is replaced, but we won't know, of course, until it happens. I also believe the solution is in tweaking the weak spots, which they have recently done recently, promoting Pevs and adding a scout. Whether those are the right moves, only time will tell.

The short version is of course you compare Nill to other GMs when determining how to move forward. It is you that is comparing him to some mythical, all-time great GM who never blew a draft pick, and won Stanley Cups nearly every year. His results have been top 10 based on wins, SC performance, and many other measures of success. Even if you think his early drafts and later trade results (which admittedly have been less dramatic now that they are a cap strapped team and can't take advantage of other teams with cap issues.) In other words, his performance is about what you would expect it to be if you considered all the facts, other than your whiny emotions as a fan.

Ditto, Bones. A thread on another section of this forum asks who are the worst coaches. (Given how enthralled you are with fan opinion, I think you would endorse these) and Bones did not get a vote or mention when I last looked at the thread. He may be a middling coach, but he is also one that took us to the finals with our supposed crap roster built by Nill, but of course, to you, that was merely dumb luck. While I know coaches have gotten fired after even a Cup win (Boudreau, but I think salary had something to do with that) it sure isn't typical. Bones probably hasn't forgotten anything. He had to deal with injuries, and yes, got back to being conservative, which is a time tested way to compete when other teams have better and healthier rosters.

As to the bottom six, the proper way to rebuild that is to add a top six forward and demote everyone down a line where they compete against lesser players. As to getting rid of top players, the contracts are what they are. I am sure we can go back and find some of us supporting signing Benn and Seguin, and others who realized that the final few years of each would be poor value. That said, if you are TG, and trying to sell tickets, it is hard to let your few recognizable stars go, and looking at teams that continually do it, how do they fare, a la, Buffalo or Ottowa, which seem to be in perpetual blow it up state. Is Buffalo going to be better without Eichel?

As I have said many times, it's easy to propose firing eveyrone, especially since internet fans have no responsibility for results of the change. If you are going to promote total blowups, you really should have a better (and realistic) replacement in mind.

As always, just MHO. You are certainly entitled to bitch, as a fan, but I will continue to point out when and where I think it is over the top unrealistic. Of course, the minute I post this, the Stars will announce that Nill and Bones have been let go, and you would be able to have a laugh at my expense.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

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May 20, 2014
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Arlington, TX
Interesting article from the Athletic today, called "The perfect off season for the Stars." I don't think all of these points can happen, nor do I think they are any surprise to anyone here, but here goes the short version:

1. Get healthy
2. Special point - Get Bishop healthy
3. Ensure Sea takes Dobby
4. Affordably sign all RFA, like Miro for a bridge deal
5. Re-sign Jamie O
6. Affordably extend John Klingberg
7. Have your prospects make the jump, i.e., Harley, Delly, and maybe Masherin and Damiani for scoring.
8. Sign a scoring FW, like Taylor Hall, if possible
9. Barring that, sign affordable depth like Blake Coleman.

Some of us will say it's nothing but a best case scenario, hopeful at best, not a real plan. Others will see it as just simple reality, as in we need at least 6 of those 9 possibilities to occur to be a true competitor. That said, historically, Cup winners probably have more players in their primes (a las 99 Stars) rather than a bunch too old and too young, but it seems Cup winners are getting younger all the time, so maybe.

Our prime years players are Hintz, Guri, Faksa, Miro, Klinger, JO, Lindell, Dickenson (lower impact and if here)
Our pre-prime players would be Ottinger, Delly, Robertson (on the cusp) and a host of our rotating forwards like Camano.
Our probably past prime players ( by varying degrees) include Seguin, Benn, Rads, Bishop, and (if here) Dobby, Comeau, Cogs, Dowling, Kero, etc.

Compare to '99, where Mo, Lehts, Hull, Niewy, Langebrunner, 5 of 6 D (Ludwig was past prime), Belfour, and a few others were in their prime. Guy, Keane, and a few top 9 forwards past their prime but still effective. Or, about 17 players playing near their prime, vs 8-12 next year for us.
 

ZeHockeyFan

Registered User
Apr 9, 2014
2,261
510
Ummm, it's you two who typify the whiny fan. And the ones who need continuing explaining as to reality.

Specifically, and to be fair, I am attributing some positions commonly found here that may not have come from you, but the typical, over emotional, under hockey educated fan, tends to think in black and white, as in, "Fire the GM", "Fire the Coach," Get rid of our top players," and "Rebuild the bottom six". No amount of data is going to sway you from your opinions. And, it is never that easy. A whole bunch of factors go into the success of a season.

If you were TG, and paying the bills, the reality of the situation is that Nill is a top 7 (or to you, as low as maybe 12) GM, certainly in the upper half of the league, probably top third. The real world question when considering replacing him is whether you will get that top 3 all time GM, or actually get one that may be up to significantly worse. Of course, any Hockey News ranking is skewed, but an ESPN list of possible GM candidates, with no experience, is golden.

I believe the chances are that the GM quality will go down if Nill is replaced, but we won't know, of course, until it happens. I also believe the solution is in tweaking the weak spots, which they have recently done recently, promoting Pevs and adding a scout. Whether those are the right moves, only time will tell.

The short version is of course you compare Nill to other GMs when determining how to move forward. It is you that is comparing him to some mythical, all-time great GM who never blew a draft pick, and won Stanley Cups nearly every year. His results have been top 10 based on wins, SC performance, and many other measures of success. Even if you think his early drafts and later trade results (which admittedly have been less dramatic now that they are a cap strapped team and can't take advantage of other teams with cap issues.) In other words, his performance is about what you would expect it to be if you considered all the facts, other than your whiny emotions as a fan.

Ditto, Bones. A thread on another section of this forum asks who are the worst coaches. (Given how enthralled you are with fan opinion, I think you would endorse these) and Bones did not get a vote or mention when I last looked at the thread. He may be a middling coach, but he is also one that took us to the finals with our supposed crap roster built by Nill, but of course, to you, that was merely dumb luck. While I know coaches have gotten fired after even a Cup win (Boudreau, but I think salary had something to do with that) it sure isn't typical. Bones probably hasn't forgotten anything. He had to deal with injuries, and yes, got back to being conservative, which is a time tested way to compete when other teams have better and healthier rosters.

As to the bottom six, the proper way to rebuild that is to add a top six forward and demote everyone down a line where they compete against lesser players. As to getting rid of top players, the contracts are what they are. I am sure we can go back and find some of us supporting signing Benn and Seguin, and others who realized that the final few years of each would be poor value. That said, if you are TG, and trying to sell tickets, it is hard to let your few recognizable stars go, and looking at teams that continually do it, how do they fare, a la, Buffalo or Ottowa, which seem to be in perpetual blow it up state. Is Buffalo going to be better without Eichel?

As I have said many times, it's easy to propose firing eveyrone, especially since internet fans have no responsibility for results of the change. If you are going to promote total blowups, you really should have a better (and realistic) replacement in mind.

As always, just MHO. You are certainly entitled to bitch, as a fan, but I will continue to point out when and where I think it is over the top unrealistic. Of course, the minute I post this, the Stars will announce that Nill and Bones have been let go, and you would be able to have a laugh at my expense.


More whinging.

For once, stop writing and start reading....especially your own posts that tend to contradict themselves in the span of 2-3 pages.
 

FirstRowUpperDeck

Registered User
May 20, 2014
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Arlington, TX
I'm not whining, you're whining!:(

I don't care what contradictions you think you see, but I believe I am realistically pointing out that statistically, things aren't as bad as some fans think they are, and starting over in a rebuild for the Stars at this moment is a statistically untenable situation, less likely to yield results. i.e., changing GM's has about a 1% chance of improving the team, even if it has a 99% chance of making certain parts of the fan base feel great. Yes, at some point, if things continue to go badly and he loses confidence of the Owner, he will be replaced.

That's not even factoring in the financial side of things, where TG isn't likely to pay Bones and Nill and a new GM and coach. I am sure that due to their age, at the end of the contract, TG will assess whether it's time to bring them back Nill will be 64 next year. And, it might very well be time for a younger, fresher, model.

Or, factoring in a list of actual GM's who would be available to the Stars. Sure, fans throw out names of folks they would like to get in here, but even that isn't so easy. The list of "Up and Comers" someone posted is nice, but no guarantee. The list of existing GM's that might be available, are to me, retreads. The good ones just won't come available very often.

In short, I am sort of saying to be careful what you wish for. As in the first PP, I see a small chance of getting better, and a large chance of getting on a GM treadmill close to the coaching treadmill that was sort of forced on Nill - i.e., owner's decision on Hitch, and then Monty having to be dismissed.

Of course, none of us has a crystal ball, so as always, I could be wrong and time will tell.
 

Morry83

14-90-91
Mar 16, 2013
2,261
452
Although I dont miss subscribing to the athletic

I’ll probably drop mine soon. I enjoy the Cowboys, Mavericks and Rangers content and especially Scott Wheeler’s prospect stuff, but Shapiro is why I subscribed in the first place and I find Saad’s content to be severely lacking.
 
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account deactivated

Finns > Swedes
Feb 28, 2008
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I’ll probably drop mine soon. I enjoy the Cowboys, Mavericks and Rangers content and especially Scott Wheeler’s prospect stuff, but Shapiro is why I subscribed in the first place and I find Saad’s content to be severely lacking.

Yeah, I don't like/follow any other sports nut hockey, so it's really not doing it for me anymore.

I like Saad, but following Shapiro (who I didn't always agree with, but pumped out content like crazy) was a tough spot to step into in the first place.
 

WhoahNow

WhatsApp lead the way
Sep 7, 2011
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Shapiro was god tier for the stars on the athletic so its a tough to go up after him, but yeah Shapiro himself was 100% worth the subscription for me
 

Captain Awesome

Registered User
Mar 29, 2008
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I'd just say give him another year. This is not exactly the best year to start a beat. He can't even talk to the players face to face, makes it really difficult to pump out content. It is crazy the difference in the amount of pieces that came out under both, but I never really thought Shapiro was great at actual hockey analysis (especially his talent evaluation), but he was definitely a content making machine, and I still liked quite a bit of it. Then again, I like the league-wide coverage even more than the Dallas stuff and always have. Hockey is full of garbage reporting, so I'm very happy to pay for the Athletic's coverage. At the very least it's interesting to see all the advanced stat stuff, and you get to read all the DGB articles.

As for firing Nill, I'm all for it. He's had enough time to build something, we're about where we were when we hired him, maybe slightly better off. It's hard to compare GMs in the NHL, It's harder to suggest a name for replacement. There are no names to suggest because no one wants the same retreads that aren't good for anything. Chances are, the best hire is probably someone who hasn't been a GM before. The NHL is an old boys' club, everyone in the NHL is constantly failing up.

Ken Holland has a great run as wings GM, but basically is terrible for several years and runs the team absolutely into the ground. Rightfully, he gets fired, and somehow ends up getting handed the keys to Connor f***ing Mcdavid and the Edmonton Oilers. Chuck Fletcher gets a decade with the Wild, who are maybe the most milquetoast, unmemorable franchise in the entire league. Finally, he gets canned, and somehow immediately gets a job being the GM of the Flyers. Benning, Treliving, Bergevin, Doug Wilson... the list of guys who have had tons of time and have done less than nothing with it in the NHL is endless. I don't think I have time to try and list absolute dud coaching appointments that you knew would fail the second you heard the name. Considering how dumb most NHL clubs are, I'd be willing to bet there's a lot of great talent that has been overlooked. Maybe start with someone who could employ an analytics department!
 
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Kcb12345

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Jun 6, 2017
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The Stars get brutal local coverage, just a bunch of writers that are new to the sport. Hockey isn't rocket science but Yousuf often fails to scratch the surface.

I get the impression he doesn't even want to be writing about hockey, don't think he really cares for the sport that much.

Feels like he did this job to get closer to the Mavs
 
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