Prospect Info: 2021 NHL Draft: The Home Stretch, Draft July 23-24

[golffuul]

No

They both skate with the tendency towards their inside edges. The only noticeable difference, aside from 4 year age difference, is that Makar will shift to his outside edges when he gets below the circles and around the goal. Plenty of video on youtube to show the same "knock kneed" stride.

To be honest, this whole thing with Clarke sounds like the "Couch Scouts" have so little film to look at for other prospects that they've over-analyzed every "available" player.

 

[RabidBadger]

I’m interested in what they decide to do with all this draft capital.
Are they really going to pick 12 players?
Are they going to target a large number of college players… so they have extra years to sign them ?

I’m kind of hoping they move up a couple times and really plant their flag on some prospects and show the fans they made sure to get ‘their’ guy.

Moving up from pick 22 could definitely be an option.

I alluded to that in a different thread. With the number of picks and cap space, the Wings are poised to make some moves this draft. I'm curious if any teams with bad contracts have incentive to trade down this year?

 

[jkutswings]

Is it draft day yet?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

They both skate with the tendency towards their inside edges. The only noticeable difference, aside from 4 year age difference, is that Makar will shift to his outside edges when he gets below the circles and around the goal. Plenty of video on youtube to show the same "knock kneed" stride.

To be honest, this whole thing with Clarke sounds like the "Couch Scouts" have so little film to look at for other prospects that they've over-analyzed every "available" player.

There is a reason everyone says his skating is bad and worrying except Clarke himself. I mean yeah couch scouts say that, you know who else is saying that? The real professionally paid scouts and the people that have connections to people from NHL organizations. I mean it is out there everywhere for a reason, so I rather people just think he can overcome it if they like him then trying to spin an angle on what is clearly his biggest issue.

Now if you want to fix his skating and if he is actually willing to, latest quote isn't great for that, then okay... But fix his skating is something he needs to do to be a #1 D-man. Without it, he projects to be a 3rd pairing PP guy more than likely. We will see, some scouts like him a lot, but even those guys admit the skating thing is a problem.

 

[Gniwder]

Believe it or not he even does a couple crossovers without face planting…

His knees cross over but his feet actually don't. Just go 30 seconds into the video you just posted and watch his feet, not his legs. He goes one foot in front of the other, but can't actually cross over.

His skating is so ugly I had to stop watching 3 minutes in. He's not going top 10 unless he does a 180 in his team interviews.

I still can't believe anyone can watch that video and say it's not an issue.

 

[Gniwder]

They both skate with the tendency towards their inside edges. The only noticeable difference, aside from 4 year age difference, is that Makar will shift to his outside edges when he gets below the circles and around the goal. Plenty of video on youtube to show the same "knock kneed" stride.

To be honest, this whole thing with Clarke sounds like the "Couch Scouts" have so little film to look at for other prospects that they've over-analyzed every "available" player.

LOL, no. Makar has like 100x more skating skills.

Makar will go knock kneed in certain circumstances, but he'll go bow legged too. He just likes a lot of edge angle. Watch the video below, certainly knock kneed on the second goal, but a lot of edge angles on the other 4.

Top 5 Cale Makar Plays from 2019-20 | NHL - YouTube

 

[jfrank21]

His knees cross over but his feet actually don't. Just go 30 seconds into the video you just posted and watch his feet, not his legs. He goes one foot in front of the other, but can't actually cross over.

His skating is so ugly I had to stop watching 3 minutes in. He's not going top 10 unless he does a 180 in his team interviews.

I still can't believe anyone can watch that video and say it's not an issue.

While not to that extreme, I had the same gut reaction when I turned on the first u18 game for Canada. I was like "Oh boy, cant wait to see how good this Clarke kid looks!" and within the first few minutes of watching, I was like "Oh god, what's wrong with his legs?!" Lol, I kept watching him and watching him thinking that something was wrong with my eyes, it just made me uncomfortable to watch him get around the ice.

 

[Hen Kolland]

His knees cross over but his feet actually don't. Just go 30 seconds into the video you just posted and watch his feet, not his legs. He goes one foot in front of the other, but can't actually cross over.

His skating is so ugly I had to stop watching 3 minutes in. He's not going top 10 unless he does a 180 in his team interviews.

I still can't believe anyone can watch that video and say it's not an issue.

Your exaggerations can get way too dramatic at times.

Clarke is going top 10 regardless of his interviews. Everything outside of the skating looks to be NHL caliber. He’s not undersized, his defensive play is better than most offensive minded D, the mind for the game is fantastic, the offensive skill set and instincts are very good.

Again, we don’t know what is being said in interviews with NHL front offices. If he’s telling the media that he’s confident in his ability to play with his current skating, and telling teams that he’s open and willing to work on mechanics, it’s a non issue. If he’s receptive to coaching, it’s a non issue.

 

[NickH8]

delete

 

[Gniwder]

Your exaggerations can get way too dramatic at times.

Clarke is going top 10 regardless of his interviews. Everything outside of the skating looks to be NHL caliber. He’s not undersized, his defensive play is better than most offensive minded D, the mind for the game is fantastic, the offensive skill set and instincts are very good.

Again, we don’t know what is being said in interviews with NHL front offices. If he’s telling the media that he’s confident in his ability to play with his current skating, and telling teams that he’s open and willing to work on mechanics, it’s a non issue. If he’s receptive to coaching, it’s a non issue.

His skating will make him a defensive liability. He won't look nearly as good offensively against NHLers, we've seen much better skaters struggle to make the transition.

I said his draft position will depend on his interviews, and obviously nobody here knows what he's saying. Would not surprise me at all if he goes in the teens or even later. GMs will lock into an issue and skip a player in the first round, we saw that with Mantha.

 

[deca guard]

delete posted in wrong thread

 

[Hen Kolland]

His skating will make him a defensive liability. He won't look nearly as good offensively against NHLers, we've seen much better skaters struggle to make the transition.

I said his draft position will depend on his interviews, and obviously nobody here knows what he's saying. Would not surprise me at all if he goes in the teens or even later. GMs will lock into an issue and skip a player in the first round, we saw that with Mantha.

I think we need to give more credit to what smart offensive RHD with NHL size means to a lot of teams. His skating might put him in a position where he has to be sheltered defensively, but he shouldn’t have too much issue put up numbers offensively. He isn’t presently putting up a ton of points based on his skating ability, it’s the other tools that drive the performance

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

His skating will make him a defensive liability. He won't look nearly as good offensively against NHLers, we've seen much better skaters struggle to make the transition.

I said his draft position will depend on his interviews, and obviously nobody here knows what he's saying. Would not surprise me at all if he goes in the teens or even later. GMs will lock into an issue and skip a player in the first round, we saw that with Mantha.

We have also seen much worse skaters become exceptional players. How? Even with a skating deficiency they were smart and skilled enough to compensate and become great players through other means.

I remember watching Larry Murphy and thinking (knowing) that I was a better skater than him when I was midget playing with Little Caesers. But Murph could slow the game down to his pace, draw in the other team and make a play at center ice or at Detroit's blueline with 2 opposing players attacking his position and it would spring a forward on our team up ice into the offensive zone. And despite his speed Murphy was one of the all time best defensemen at holding the offensive blueline. The guy's hand-eye coordination was unreal.

My point is that talent finds a way, and Clarke does a lot of things better than any other defenseman in this draft class. If Clarke is talented and smart enough he's going to be a good player in spite of his skating style. And if he can work on it and improve the mechanics then he'll be even better.

 

[jkutswings]

My point is that talent finds a way, and Clarke does a lot of things better than any other defenseman in this draft class. If Clarke is talented and smart enough he's going to be a good player in spite of his skating style. And if he can work on it and improve the mechanics then he'll be even better.

Agreed. But I still hope the kid has (or gains) the mentality to improve everything he can, to hopefully maximize his potential. Clarke could become a really fun NHL player to watch, and I don't want any notion of "no, I got this" to stand in the way.

 

[Winger98]

Agreed. But I still hope the kid has (or gains) the mentality to improve everything he can, to hopefully maximize his potential. Clarke could become a really fun NHL player to watch, and I don't want any notion of "no, I got this" to stand in the way.

Which is why his comments about his game being fine is so troubling. And while we don't know what he's saying in interviews with different teams, they know he said this. The moment he talks about he strikes a different tune in a 1-on-1 interview the obvious follow up is, "then why did you say this in the interview you had?"

Yeah, he might have just gotten defensive and ran his mouth a bit but it looks really bad. And if he has a crap attitude about something that is clearly a weak spot in his game, how likely do teams think he would take coaching elsewhere? Is he likely to buy in to what a team is doing or is he going to do what he wants to do because it worked in the U18s?

Someone threw out a comparison to mantha earlier, I'd throw out Athanasiou, too. Talented guys, NHLers, but some question marks between the ears that will almost certainly turn teams off.

 

[jkutswings]

Which is why his comments about his game being fine is so troubling. And while we don't know what he's saying in interviews with different teams, they know he said this. The moment he talks about he strikes a different tune in a 1-on-1 interview the obvious follow up is, "then why did you say this in the interview you had?"

Yeah, he might have just gotten defensive and ran his mouth a bit but it looks really bad. And if he has a crap attitude about something that is clearly a weak spot in his game, how likely do teams think he would take coaching elsewhere? Is he likely to buy in to what a team is doing or is he going to do what he wants to do because it worked in the U18s?

Someone threw out a comparison to mantha earlier, I'd throw out Athanasiou, too. Talented guys, NHLers, but some question marks between the ears that will almost certainly turn teams off.

Yeah, AA was the first guy I thought of, but in a, "I hope this doesn't foreshadow an Athanasiou situation" kinda way.

Honestly, I'm hoping a good amount of negative feedback from this finds its way back to Clarke. And that he takes it to heart.

 

[Winger98]

Yeah, AA was the first guy I thought of, but in a, "I hope this doesn't foreshadow an Athanasiou situation" kinda way.

Honestly, I'm hoping a good amount of negative feedback from this finds its way back to Clarke. And that he takes it to heart.

and that he slips to us at 22 or in the 2nd round.

 

[newfy]

Maybe I'm naive but I don't mind those comments from Clarke. I don't really read that as a kid who is unwilling to put the work in to improve, I read it more as a kid who stands by his ability and his track record as a good junior player.

I won't pretend that I have no concerns about the way he skates, it is kind of bizarre how reliant he seems to be on his inner edges. But at the same time I'm not totally convinced that it's going to be a serious hindrance at the next level. Clarke might not be my very favorite prospect this draft, but I would say I'm a believer in his skill set.

I agree and I really dont think hes wrong either. Hes not an elite skater, but he moves around the ice fine out there. He isnt a "bad" skater at all and it hasnt hurt him. A bunch of people watch him and say hes got a weird stride which he admits in that quote. He does get around the ice fine and I wouldnt consider his skating speed or agility as weak at all. Now, I wouldnt call him an elite guy or say its even one of his strengths but hes right that hes always in the right spot as well.

I think that quote comes off as a kid that is extremely self aware and is vouching for himself. There were a bunch of people in the last thread talking about how easily he'll get hurt by skating the way he does with no real basis for saying that. Hes probably annoyed at how dominant hes been and people cant look past the weird stride despite how dominant hes been.

 

[Ed Ned and Leddy]

I agree and I really dont think hes wrong either. Hes not an elite skater, but he moves around the ice fine out there. He isnt a "bad" skater at all and it hasnt hurt him. A bunch of people watch him and say hes got a weird stride which he admits in that quote. He does get around the ice fine and I wouldnt consider his skating speed or agility as weak at all. Now, I wouldnt call him an elite guy or say its even one of his strengths but hes right that hes always in the right spot as well.

I think that quote comes off as a kid that is extremely self aware and is vouching for himself. There were a bunch of people in the last thread talking about how easily he'll get hurt by skating the way he does with no real basis for saying that. Hes probably annoyed at how dominant hes been and people cant look past the weird stride despite how dominant hes been.

Yeah I agree 100%. His stride is a bit strange, and I won't pretend I have absolutely zero concerns about it. But I also haven't been convinced that it is this big problem where he needs to like totally uproot his skating mechanics. I don't see him routinely getting burned by opposition forwards, looking bad in transition, etc.



I think this clip shows that his top speed in transition, while maybe not exceptional, isn't necessarily a liability. I think he's somewhat justified in saying that riding his inner edges allows him to move east west more quickly.

I would like to see him make skating improvements for sure. But I'm not convinced that he has to like totally restructure his skating mechanics, and I don't think he's out of line for sticking up for himself in that regard.

I think everyone to some extent has a "type" of player they prefer, and generally I favor these mobile young defensemen who can navigate really effectively in transitions (Hughes, Drysdale, etc.) That said, I think one of the best ways to make up for not being the world's smoothest skater is when you have a great hockey iq, which I think Brandt Clarke absolutely has. I think he makes great decisions with the puck, I like his passing arsenal a lot, and despite the lack of high-end speed he can at times force his way through the neutral zone. I also think he's much better defensively than people give him credit for. All in all Clarke is a player who the more I've watched the more I've grown to believe in his game, and I don't think he's out of line with these comments.

 

[deca guard]

THE RED WING'S DRAFT ZONE :

heres whats on the docket today as red wing brass are probably
huddled in ozzys ' ice house ' planning draft day strategy .

- are clarkes legs strong and coordinated enough to skate normal
- can mc't skate or is he a frankenstein
- is edvinsson another ken holland slow thinking dman
- is johnson rugged and strong enough motored for the bigs

1 - power
2 - beniers
3 - hughes
4 - guenther
5 - eklund
6 - ?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

They both skate with the tendency towards their inside edges. The only noticeable difference, aside from 4 year age difference, is that Makar will shift to his outside edges when he gets below the circles and around the goal. Plenty of video on youtube to show the same "knock kneed" stride.

To be honest, this whole thing with Clarke sounds like the "Couch Scouts" have so little film to look at for other prospects that they've over-analyzed every "available" player.

A. literally all players spend more time on their inside edges than their outside edges. Welcome to hockey.
B. while Makar frequently uses his inside edges to explode laterally and has the ankle flexibility and groin strength to mohawk around frozen players, his general posture and stance his much more neutral and athletic than Clarke's. He naturally keep his feet under his hips and shoulders which facilitates his quick edge-to-edge movement. He also pivots much better from front to back because of this and actually uses his outside edges a ton while skating forward.
C. you are free to set yourself up to be disappointed as much as you like.

In my mind the skating isn't really the issue. The issue is that he told a reporter that he doesn't think he needs to improve it. There is zero doubt that this is the biggest weakness of his game. People were talking about this in his OHL draft year. This is nothing knew unless you just started following the kid yesterday. Furthermore, everyone has weaknesses. It is part of life, especially at 18. NHL teams aren't expecting perfect players. Hell, even McDavid has weaknesses. If he isn't willing to work on his weaknesses, I don't know what exactly he is willing to work on.

If you think that your shit doesn't stink, the least you can do is to have the sense to act otherwise.

He still plays in the NHL without technical improvement to his skating, but you won't see him too far up the lineup in my judgement.

 

[Gniwder]

We have also seen much worse skaters become exceptional players. How? Even with a skating deficiency they were smart and skilled enough to compensate and become great players through other means.

I remember watching Larry Murphy and thinking (knowing) that I was a better skater than him when I was midget playing with Little Caesers. But Murph could slow the game down to his pace, draw in the other team and make a play at center ice or at Detroit's blueline with 2 opposing players attacking his position and it would spring a forward on our team up ice into the offensive zone. And despite his speed Murphy was one of the all time best defensemen at holding the offensive blueline. The guy's hand-eye coordination was unreal.

My point is that talent finds a way, and Clarke does a lot of things better than any other defenseman in this draft class. If Clarke is talented and smart enough he's going to be a good player in spite of his skating style. And if he can work on it and improve the mechanics then he'll be even better.

The NHL is a much faster game now. I can't imagine Murphy playing against guys like McDavid or MacKinnon.

Even then, Murphy and Lidstrom had ridiculous hand-eye coordination where they can knock the puck out of the air seemingly without thinking. Clarke hasn't shown that he is at the same level where it's enough to compensate for his skating.

I wondered why he hasn't fixed his skating by now, and the interview explains it. Where he goes in this draft will depend entirely on his team interview. If he insists that his skating isn't an issue, then I can see him dropping in the draft and getting stuck in the AHL for a while. I can see a lot of teams wanting to avoid that headache. I'd be surprised if he goes top ten at this point.

 

[Dotter]

Datsyuk was an unconventional skater also.

 

[Winger98]

Datsyuk was an unconventional skater also.

datsyuk's legs also appeared to fit comfortably around a whiskey barrel.

 

[Dotter]

datsyuk's legs also appeared to fit comfortably around a whiskey barrel.

Exactly, bodies are different and you have to do what works for you.