Prospect Info: 2021 2nd Rd Pick (#57 OA) - Matthew Knies (LW) - Tri-City (USHL)

[Stephen]

Is it that he is “important” or that he is simply a unicorn? How many teams in the league have a player that fits the potential attributes that Knies does? Very, very few. It’s ultimately why you don’t/can’t make it a model for your drafting. It is almost nonexistent and the majority drafted around those characteristics fail expectations.

There are many programs around the league that excel in identifying, selecting and developing player types throughout the Dallas is big in multiple positions because they value size and those players and draft them regularly outside the first round. They also have time for guys like Stankoven and Bourque.

Detroit values big project players with long reach and that’s why they have guys like Wallindrr, Buium and Soderblom in their system.

Given that McMann, Holmberg and Knies are likely the prospects getting extended looks or will get extended looks above all else, it just makes sense that you draft with a focus that one day your big team could call them up and use them in a real role. That’s really not the case with a good number of kids they’ve picked in 2018-2020.

 

[Dekes For Days]

His size lets him do things that a similarly skilled smaller prospect couldn’t, it’s silly to ignore such a major part of his game. Knowing how to use his size to open up more opportunities for his skill to take over is big.

Except those attributes are a factor in why he has success. Skill involves knowing how to use your physical advantages and traits to your benefit.

Yes, size can be a useful tool, used properly, that lets your skill flourish, but Knies is not being brought in to crash and bang and drop elbows from the top rope - which is what some people seem to think his size means. He's being brought in because he's a highly skilled player who can provide complimentary or depth scoring for incredibly cheap.

 

[Peace Frog]

Yes, size can be a useful tool, used properly, that lets your skill flourish, but Knies is not being brought in to crash and bang and drop elbows from the top rope - which is what some people seem to think his size means. He's being brought in because he's a highly skilled player who can provide complimentary or depth scoring for incredibly cheap.

I’m sure the Leafs organization wouldn’t be too disappointed if he were to come in and crash and bang and pot a few as well. There’s no doubt that they will want him to use his size to his advantage.

Being big and strong and being aggressive on the forecheck, wears opponents defence down. That’s a part of his skill set, just as much as his hands are.

 

[1specter]

Yes, size can be a useful tool, used properly, that lets your skill flourish, but Knies is not being brought in to crash and bang and drop elbows from the top rope - which is what some people seem to think his size means. He's being brought in because he's a highly skilled player who can provide complimentary or depth scoring for incredibly cheap.

I haven't seen people suggesting that he's going to be coming in and getting nasty with other teams. There is an element to his size / physicality though where it helps get separation in playoffs as time and space are reduced and more obstruction gets allowed. I don't expect him to go around fighting guys or laying out big hits, but to use his size effectively to gain more separation and be a net front presence similar to how JVR did. Tom Wilson for example was one of Washington's best secondary players in their Cup run a few years ago.

 

[Stephen]

He's likely to make it because his skills appear to be NHL quality, and he can provide value to the team at a really cheap price. You may like his size, but if he was 3 inches shorter, 20 lbs lighter ,and not particularly physical, he'd be in the same position because it's his skills that are driving him. I don't know why that's so bad to admit for some.

So why isn’t SDA getting penciled into the upcoming Lightning series? Isn’t he 3 inches shorter, 20 pounds lighter and pretty good at the hockey thing?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I’m sure the Leafs organization wouldn’t be too disappointed if he were to come in and crash and bang and pot a few as well. There’s no doubt that they will want him to use his size to his advantage.

I'm sure he will use his size to his advantage. It's just that that doesn't mean what a lot of people want it to mean, and the idea that our team is devoid of people who do that is false.

So why isn’t SDA getting penciled into the upcoming Lightning series? Isn’t he 3 inches shorter, 20 pounds lighter and pretty good at the hockey thing?

Because SDA isn't as good as Knies. He was always a project, and he's currently doing well in the AHL at age 22.
Why isn't Rasanen? Why isn't Korshkov? You're trying to make this a referendum on size when it's nothing of the sort.

 

[ACC1224]

I’m sure the Leafs organization wouldn’t be too disappointed if he were to come in and crash and bang and pot a few as well. There’s no doubt that they will want him to use his size to his advantage.

Being big and strong and being aggressive on the forecheck, wears opponents defence down. That’s a part of his skill set, just as much as his hands are.

Unfortunately that is a foreign concept to some.

 

[Stephen]

I'm sure he will use his size to his advantage. It's just that that doesn't mean what a lot of people want it to mean, and the idea that our team is devoid of people who do that is false.

Because SDA isn't as good as Knies. He was always a project, and he's currently doing well in the AHL at age 22.
Why isn't Rasanen? Why isn't Korshkov? You're trying to make this a referendum on size when it's nothing of the sort.

What makes Knies better than SDA at hockey, could it be size and strength?

 

[francis246]

So why isn’t SDA getting penciled into the upcoming Lightning series? Isn’t he 3 inches shorter, 20 pounds lighter and pretty good at the hockey thing?

Exactly, people who are acting like Knies’ size isn’t apart of what makes him so intriguing baffle me.

Also don’t wanna spend too much time on your other comments cause it’s a Knies thread. But I understand what you are trying to say. Tampa Bay, Boston, St. Louis for example don’t keep producing high end two way players or players with snarl by accident. It’s something they specifically target and believe in as an organization. That’s why they are able to churn so many of them out. I think the leafs should adapt that approach as well. Because you are right, it is too much of the same. A lot of the high end skilled guys are not going to become quality 4th liners and our top 6 is too crowded. So now we have a surplus of players that we cannot use. Look for more Matthew Knies, Zach Hyman, Conor Brown type players. Players with high skill and size combination.

 

[hotpaws]

You should have included the bolded.

i guess i should include the bolded with everyone of my posts , lol

 

[Dekes For Days]

What makes Knies better than SDA at hockey, could it be size and strength?

There are more differences between SDA and Knies than size, and it's really unfortunate that size is the only thing you seem to see.
Maybe instead of just asking questions, maybe you could try answering one of the ones you keep ignoring?

 

[Stephen]

Unfortunately that is a foreign concept to some.

I’m not sure why there’s a pushback on the idea of drafting for more size or that size is a positive attribute and what makes our best prospect our best prospect…

 

[francis246]

There are more differences between SDA and Knies than size, and it's really unfortunate that size is the only thing you seem to see.
Maybe instead of just asking questions, maybe you could try answering one of the ones you keep ignoring?

But you’re the one who keeps ignoring the fact that size plays a critical role in what makes Matthew Knies, Matthew Knies. His size is what allows him to create space in front of the net and be a such an effective net front player. His forechecking ability is what allows him to jump on loose pucks and create offensive opportunities. His size allows him to take other players off the puck with his body and then transition to making highly skilled offensive plays. It’s the whole combination is what makes him so wanted. There aren’t many players in the league that can do what he can do and that has to do with the fact that he uses his size to his advantage combined with the fact that he is a highly skilled player.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Look for more Matthew Knies, Zach Hyman, Conor Brown type players. Players with high skill and size combination.

Brown was drafted 5'10" and 160 lbs...

But you’re the one who keeps ignoring the fact that size plays a critical role in what makes Matthew Knies, Matthew Knies.

I'm not ignoring that at all. I'm just recognizing that there's a lot, lot more to him than that, and that his size is primarily utilized in ways that we already see a lot of that goes wildly unappreciated, so if you're expecting him to come in and be a player you haven't seen in 10+ years, your expectations are off and you don't understand why he's so valued.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Brown was drafted 5'10" and 160 lbs...

we need more physically dominant freaks like him and Holmberg lol. That side doesn't even know what they want and are just making things up as they go along

 

[Stephen]

There are more differences between SDA and Knies than size, and it's really unfortunate that size is the only thing you seem to see.
Maybe instead of just asking questions, maybe you could try answering one of the ones you keep ignoring?

So what are the key non physical differences between Knies and SDA based on your scouting of the two players? What did you and Wes Clark and Kyle Dubas identify as key ingredients that didn’t come down to a 6’3” 220 frame that could thrive in a playoff series?

And based on those differences, what is the end game in even developing an SDA?

 

[tmlms13]

I see so much in here about how important the banging and crashing role players are, even if they lack skill because it wears people down.

If it's so important why not go get some Practice Squad NFL Middle Linebacker or Defensive End, they're usually in the 6'4 240 range and pretty good at hitting people lol, just gotta spend a bit of time learning to skate a bit.

If you're up or down a few goals send him in there to take out the other team's D men for the next game in the series.

 

[Petrus]

Yes I do think Knies brings a new element. As I mentioned, it’s not just his skill. It’s the fact that he is a prospect that has a unique combination of skill and size. And he actually plays with some physicality. And if you think that skill alone is why Knies is making this roster you’re pretty delusional. He’s making it 1. because it’s the only place he can play when he does sign. 2. Because he’s exactly the type of forward Leafs have been trying to identify at the deadline and we don’t have to spend assets to trade for one if we finally have one in the system who can play. Top 6 two way forward who can play physical. Why is that so bad to admit?



Do any of those guys have the skill of Knies while also having that size? If not it proves my point. Knies wasn’t just some big guy pick. He’s hyped up because he’s a skilled guy who is big. Not because he’s a big guy.

Agreed. The ones I posted were projects and needed significant development.

Knies is uniquely positioned amongst our top prospects given his combination of skill and physical attributes.

 

[Stephen]

I see so much in here about how important the banging and crashing role players are, even if they lack skill because it wears people down.

If it's so important why not go get some Practice Squad NFL Middle Linebacker or Defensive End, they're usually in the 6'4 240 range and pretty good at hitting people lol, just gotta spend a bit of time learning to skate a bit.

If you're up or down a few goals send him in there to take out the other team's D men for the next game in the series.

There’s a time and a place for every kind of player of different size and skill level. And a guy like Knies looks like he can be valuable in all situations because of his unique size and skill ratio.

 

[Dekes For Days]

So what are the key non physical differences between Knies and SDA based on your scouting of the two players?

Well for one, SDA's biggest obstacle has always been his shot and goal-scoring. That's a strength for Knies.
These prospects have nothing to do with each other. There are many differences between them other than size.
You've cherry picked a long-term project who hasn't yet made it (despite tracking well), and a higher drafted player who exploded post-draft, and are trying to turn this into a referendum on size, while ignoring all of other differences and the countless examples we have of bigger players busting outright, long before getting to where SDA is now.
I also notice a continued lack of response to my posts and questions, so not sure why I'm even bothering responding to you.

 

[ULF_55]

Pretty good company, 3rd. and 23rd. overall teammates.

Is it a better team this year?

 

[Dekes For Days]

I see so much in here about how important the banging and crashing role players are, even if they lack skill because it wears people down.

Funniest part is being good at hockey, making opponents defend, chase pucks, scramble, etc. wears players down infinitely more than getting hit with an extra 10-20 lbs on the forecheck.

 

[Stephen]

Well for one, SDA's biggest obstacle has always been his shot and goal-scoring. That's a strength for Knies.
These prospects have nothing to do with each other. There are many differences between them other than size.
You've cherry picked a long-term project who hasn't yet made it (despite tracking well), and a higher drafted player who exploded post-draft, and are trying to turn this into a referendum on size, while ignoring all of other differences and the countless examples we have of bigger players busting outright, long before getting to where SDA is now.
I also notice a continued lack of response to my posts and questions, so not sure why I'm even bothering responding to you.

This isn’t a referendum on size. It’s comment that they should pick a more balanced draft class with a more diverse mix of big players. Your attempt to deny the size factor with Knies is really the odd take here. He’s power forward. Why wouldn’t size be a factor? Why wouldn’t size be a factor with SDA not getting promoted as a project pick?

 

[Dekes For Days]

This isn’t a referendum on size.

It's not, but you've spent multiple pages in a Knies draft pick thread trying to create one.

It’s comment that they should pick a more balanced draft class with a more diverse mix of big players.

And as I showed, in the post you ignored and refused to respond to, that we have drafted a diverse mix of prospects.

Over the past 5 drafts, we've drafted 10 centers, 10 wingers, 11 defensemen, and 4 goalies.
Height has ranged from 5'8" to 6'5".
Weight has ranged from 147 to 210 lbs.
Age has ranged from 17 to 20+.

We've also been leaning bigger more recently, as the older big prospects aged out as failures.

The problem is that you seem to only appreciate one kind of pick, and arbitrarily write off others that don't fit a specific profile.

 

[Kiwi]

Size can be useful but if you don't have a base level of other skills size isn't going to make up for that

We picked a ton of big defenseman in the draft under Hunter and none of them were any good. They lacked basic puck skills and couldn't skate so they busted

Knies looks like he's going to be a player because he has the attributes you look for with the added bonus of size

There aren't many guys around like that so it's not really something you can draft for, big guys who have skills and can skate don't get out of the first round very often