Prospect Info: 2021 2nd Rd Pick (#57 OA) - Matthew Knies (LW) - Tri-City (USHL)

[zeke]

I think that's a little optimistic about what you can get with later picks.

Because I'm a geek I looked this up. The number of players with more points than JVR outside of the 2007 first round: One. (Jamie Benn). Wayne Simmonds is close, and PK Subban isn't that far off and is a defenceman. Actually, Wayne Simmonds would be a great result for our prospect.

Sticking with surrounding draft years:
2005 Draft - Three (Paul Stastny, James Neal, Keith Yandle)
2006 Draft - Two (Brad Marchand, Milan Lucic)
2008 Draft - Zero.
2009 Draft - One (Ryan O'Reilly).

O'Reilly and Neal were very early 2nd rounders so I'm not sure they should be included. Lucic isn't ahead by much.

Obviously points is not the sole criteria to evaluate with but it's an important one and the fastest one.

Anyway, moral of the story: JVR would be a very good result even if we were talking about a mid first-rounder. For a second rounder it's outstanding. A better JVR wouldn't just be a home run, it would be a grand slam.

welll...2nd overall picks get a lot more opportunity to put up points early on!

anywyas, non-1st round pick guys with my half-assed opinion of being as good or better than JVR:

2005: Neal #33, Vlasic #35, Stastny #44, Letang #62, Quick #72, Bishop #85, Yandle #105, Hjalmarsson #108, Stralman #216, Hornqvist #230
2006: Petry #45, Lucic #50, Marchand #71, Reimer #99
2007: Subban #43, Simmonds #61, Dadonov #71, Killorn #77, Martinez #95, Benn #129, Muzzin #141
2008: Markstrom #31, Josi #38, Stepan #51, Hamonic #53, Henrique #82, Brodie #114, Spurgeon #156, Atkinson #157
2009: O'Reilly #33, Lehner #46, Dumoulin #51, Orlov #55, Tatar #60, Barrie #64, Smith #69, Ekholm #102, Hoffman #130, Lee #152, Kuemper #161



For me, a 2nd round pick turning into JVR would be a very nice result, of course, but not at the "steal of the draft" level. There are plenty of guys as good or better than JVR picked well below the #2 slot every year.

 

[saltming]

Well, 2nd overall or not, in the end JVR ended up as a one dimensional 30/60 type guy.

I'm sure there will be a number of mid round picks in the draft that end up better than that.

Jvr did ok and I think there is a good argument that he was the right puck at 2. There are a couple names I would have chosen before him but that's in hindsight.
Either way if knies puts up 30/60 every year without being physical, it's a Damn good pick

 

[zeke]

Jvr did ok and I think there is a good argument that he was the right puck at 2. There are a couple names I would have chosen before him but that's in hindsight.
Either way if knies puts up 30/60 every year without being physical, it's a Damn good pick
View attachment 497237

wow what a terrible draft!

 

[Marmoset]

welll...2nd overall picks get a lot more opportunity to put up points early on!

anywyas, non-1st round pick guys with my half-assed opinion of being as good or better than JVR:

2005: Neal #33, Vlasic #35, Stastny #44, Letang #62, Quick #72, Bishop #85, Yandle #105, Hjalmarsson #108, Stralman #216, Hornqvist #230
2006: Petry #45, Lucic #50, Marchand #71, Reimer #99
2007: Subban #43, Simmonds #61, Dadonov #71, Killorn #77, Martinez #95, Benn #129, Muzzin #141
2008: Markstrom #31, Josi #38, Stepan #51, Hamonic #53, Henrique #82, Brodie #114, Spurgeon #156, Atkinson #157
2009: O'Reilly #33, Lehner #46, Dumoulin #51, Orlov #55, Tatar #60, Barrie #64, Smith #69, Ekholm #102, Hoffman #130, Lee #152, Kuemper #161

For me, a 2nd round pick turning into JVR would be a very nice result, of course, but not at the "steal of the draft" level. There are plenty of guys as good or better than JVR picked well below the #2 slot every year.

The "as good" part makes a big difference! My list was obviously very simple and missed out on the goalies and defence-first defenceman. You have a few guys I would leave out but it's subjective after all.

Anyways, I think we agree on the general sentiment that if you get a JVR outside of the first round you should be very happy.

Instead, we got him for Luke Schenn.

 

[ZEBROA]

Matthews Knees would probably be better then most players on this team.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

a great video breakdown of Knies. Definitely worth a watch

 

[hockeywiz542]

Shane Doan comments on Matthew Knies.

Q&A: Team Canada GM Shane Doan rates Olympic hockey hopefuls — and one Leafs prospect to watch | The Star

Q On another topic, Hayley Wickenheiser told me that Leafs prospect Matt Knies — who will be on Team USA — plays the game like you and has skated with you. What do you think of him?

A So, I’ve known Mattie since he was six. He and my son (Josh) played together their whole life. He’s an unbelievable player. I’ve been teased about liking him too much. I think he’s incredible ... Toronto stole him in the position that they took him. Like, stole him (57th overall in 2021) ... He’s on the U.S. national team. Couldn’t be happier for him. Unbelievable kid — six-foot-three, 215 pounds and just ripped. He’s capable of playing a power game. When he’s good, he gets his confidence from his size and his strength, but sometimes tries to get his confidence from his hands. But if he gets it from his size, he’s elite. He’s got serious skill and I’m a huge fan.

 

[Fonzieleaf]

Jvr did ok and I think there is a good argument that he was the right puck at 2. There are a couple names I would have chosen before him but that's in hindsight.
Either way if knies puts up 30/60 every year without being physical, it's a Damn good pick
View attachment 497237

Is that the year we traded the #9 pick for Toskala? Lol

 

[ULF_55]

Shane Doan comments on Matthew Knies.

Q&A: Team Canada GM Shane Doan rates Olympic hockey hopefuls — and one Leafs prospect to watch | The Star

Q On another topic, Hayley Wickenheiser told me that Leafs prospect Matt Knies — who will be on Team USA — plays the game like you and has skated with you. What do you think of him?

A So, I’ve known Mattie since he was six. He and my son (Josh) played together their whole life. He’s an unbelievable player. I’ve been teased about liking him too much. I think he’s incredible ... Toronto stole him in the position that they took him. Like, stole him (57th overall in 2021) ... He’s on the U.S. national team. Couldn’t be happier for him. Unbelievable kid — six-foot-three, 215 pounds and just ripped. He’s capable of playing a power game. When he’s good, he gets his confidence from his size and his strength, but sometimes tries to get his confidence from his hands. But if he gets it from his size, he’s elite. He’s got serious skill and I’m a huge fan.

Does not sound like a player who stays in the NCAA for much more than a year. Two years tops!

 

[hockeywiz542]

Is that the year we traded the #9 pick for Toskala? Lol

Maple Leafs acquire Vesa Toskala and Mark Bell from San Jose Sharks - The Hockey News

June 22, 2007

One year after trading with the Boston Bruins for Andrew Raycroft, the Toronto Maple Leafs GM made another splash Friday, reeling in Vesa Toskala from the San Jose Sharks - by far the most attractive goalie available on the trade market this off-season.

Forward Mark Bell also comes in the deal for Toronto's 2007 or '08 first-round pick (that's San Jose's option), a 2007 second-round pick and a 2009 fourth-round selection. The Leafs went into Friday night's draft with the 13th overall selection.

Toskala, 30, has one year remaining on a contract that pays him only US$1.375 million. Sources told The Canadian Press that Ferguson was already working on signing him to an extension.

Ferguson has been under immense pressure in Toronto to make a big move and he made a solid one Friday. Toskala, 26-10-1 with a 2.35 goals-against average and .908 save percentage last season. has long been viewed as a capable No. 1 goalie but had to share the net with Evgeni Nabokov in San Jose. That Sharks GM Doug Wilson didn't receive any roster players in exchange suggests he will be busy come the July 1 opening of free agency.

The Boston Bruins, according to a source, were also heavily involved in trying to land Toskala. But it might have cost them having to pick up Bell, who disappointed this past season in San Jose and has $4.5 million left on his deal over the next two seasons.

 

[saltming]

Is that the year we traded the #9 pick for Toskala? Lol

I have a mental block of that which you speak of Hahaha
I'm so very angry at that

 

[AvroArrow]

Is that the year we traded the #9 pick for Toskala? Lol

2000s leafs management was such a shit show..Toskala has given me PTSD. 200ft goals, there was another game where the puck was going well wide he tried to glove it and somehow let the puck in. Another game was a shot from the red line, complete side of the net, again tried to grab it and got scored on. How different the team and league would have been lol. Then there's the Rask for Raycroft deal. Happy that new management doesn't piss away picks and top prospects.

 

[hockeywiz542]

2000s leafs management was such a shit show..Toskala has given me PTSD. 200ft goals, there was another game where the puck was going well wide he tried to glove it and somehow let the puck in. Another game was a shot from the red line, complete side of the net, again tried to grab it and got scored on. How different the team and league would have been lol. Then there's the Rask for Raycroft deal. Happy that new management doesn't piss away picks and top prospects.

Unlucky Bounce: Vesa Toskala lets one in from 200 feet

October 8, 2013

NHL

Toronto Maple Leafs goaltender Vesa Toskala lets a 200 foot slap shot get by him. Check out some of wackiest goals scored in National Hockey League history.

 

[7even]

a great video breakdown of Knies. Definitely worth a watch

That loose hand stick deflection was pretty brilliant. He really does look like he attended the Auston Matthews school of puck protection.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

The Leafs went into Friday night's draft with the 13th overall selection.

I have a mental block of that which you speak of Hahaha
I'm so very angry at that

the pick we traded was 13th (Lars Eller went with our pick). SJ traded up from 13 to 9.

 

[supermann_98]

Jvr did ok and I think there is a good argument that he was the right puck at 2. There are a couple names I would have chosen before him but that's in hindsight.
Either way if knies puts up 30/60 every year without being physical, it's a Damn good pick
View attachment 497237

JVR put up 30/60 every year playing with Bozak, like he’d be tough to stop at his prime on either of our top 2 lines

 

[WTFMAN99]

JVR put up 30/60 every year playing with Bozak, like he’d be tough to stop at his prime on either of our top 2 lines

I remember sporadic shifts where they put JVR on Matthews wing and they were dominant just because of their size/skill.

I imagine a couple years from now Knies-Matthews would be an absolute load to handle.

 

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

Not many Leafs prospects or players for the matter play this style.

 

[kb]

When I hear the Rask name I remember we kept pogge instead and
View attachment 498627

 

[saltming]

View attachment 500611

I like that one for when we beat the bruins hahahaha

 

[kb]

I like that one for when we beat the bruins hahahaha

I literally laugh out loud each time I watch it. LOL

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Word from Friedman is the Leafs are planning to give Knies NHL time this season... if that's true it's been an insane year for a guy drafted 57th in his D+1. It's no wonder they're very hesitant to move him when they seem to think he's ready to contribute to this team in the very near future.

 

[Smif]

Word from Friedman is the Leafs are planning to give Knies NHL time this season... if that's true it's been an insane year for a guy drafted 57th in his D+1. It's no wonder they're very hesitant to move him when they seem to think he's ready to contribute to this team in the very near future.

Just another reason to not trade away our 1st & 2nd Rd picks.

 

[ponder]

Word from Friedman is the Leafs are planning to give Knies NHL time this season... if that's true it's been an insane year for a guy drafted 57th in his D+1. It's no wonder they're very hesitant to move him when they seem to think he's ready to contribute to this team in the very near future.

He’s looked SO good this year. He’s a perfect fit for our high skill, puck possession style - he’s excellent at protecting and controlling the puck. Uses his size so well, very good hands, high IQ, and a good motor. I’m definitely in favour of getting him some games this years.

He’s become my favourite Leafs prospect (FWIW I consider Sandin and Liljegren to have graduated).

 

[Morgs]

Word from Friedman is the Leafs are planning to give Knies NHL time this season... if that's true it's been an insane year for a guy drafted 57th in his D+1. It's no wonder they're very hesitant to move him when they seem to think he's ready to contribute to this team in the very near future.

He wasn't drafted in his D1, he's just an October birthday.

Should be fun to see if Him/Abruzzese/Holmberg can come over an make an immediate impact at the NHL level.