Speculation: 2021-22 Trade Thread VI : Who's your Dadonov?

[lwvs84]

Do the rebuild the right way and weaponize the cap space. Pick up short term, overpaid or cap dump vets for picks (like Dadonov) so you're not handing out spots to kids before they're ready, retain and trade them at the deadline for more picks, and add some veteran leadership and tough guys to insulate the youth. Virtually every Cup champion over the last 15 years was built around at least one top 2 pick, usually more than one. It'll require a lot of luck or (more likely) good drafting. Once more of the young guys start producing, then make trades to fill out the roster. It'll be a rough couple years but the foundation is there.

 

[DavidBL]

Tbh I’d be pretty surprised if Anaheim didn’t just go up to the podium and make a ton of draft picks this year and next.

I doubt Verbeek is able to pull the proverbial rabbit out of his hat and somehow turn the small batch of assets he got from Lindholm,Rakell, and Manson into meaningful players to get us back to even. Let alone improve the team from the first few months of this year.

And Trying to pull the rabbit out of the hat by going for players like Chychurun would likely just be compounding his mistakes.

I think sitting on those picks would be the worst thing he can do.

 

[bsu]

I think sitting on those picks would be the worst thing he can do.

Yep.... Either way you cut it losing Lindholm and them him signing that amazing deal was idiotic... We'll see what he makes of it.

 

[AngelDuck]

Yep.... Either way you cut it losing Lindholm and them him signing that amazing deal was idiotic... We'll see what he makes of it.

Lol

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Ducks don’t need an elite or Top #1 D, they need the best compliment pairings for Drysdale and Fowler for those two to be able to play their game, and then eventually for Zellweger. I would not trade Zellweger for Chychrun, who may even have a higher upside than him.

This will get some heat, I honestly don’t think Lindholm was the most ideal D partner for Drysdale.

Drysdale has #1 potential, get him the most ideal pairing where he can reach that potential. If the Ducks bottom pairing ends up being Vaak - Helleson, with players above them being better and in a higher tier, the Ducks will be in very good shape on D. If those two can reach their potential, it won’t sting at all when they need to fill in a Top 4 role due to injury, which has been the biggest issue the last 3 or so years.

Drysdale's best position would be 3rd pairing at his age and experience. Lindholm is at another level, but Lindholm was the safest pairing for Drysdale. Drysdale with Fowler means no one's winning pucks in the corners often and both will be pinching. Drysdale with Benoit or Mahura sounds as disastrous as sounding it out as that would be an all-rookie 3rd pairing. Drysdale (LD)-Shatty is something we saw last year and no... just no.

I used to think Drysdale had top pairing potential, but not #1D. Lindholm was NHL-established in his D+1 season where as Drysdale is still feeling his way around. Drysdale has a long way to go to improve his mass and endurance.

D+1 seasons

Lindholm (NHL): 78 games, 30 pts (6g +24), +29 (2nd highest on team, 1st highest for D-men)​

Drysdale (NHL): 70 games, 28 pts (4g +24), -20​

Heck, Lindholm left the team with +0 rating this season.

I'm not very optimistic that we'll have a great D next year. It's a growing pains year.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

Tbh I’d be pretty surprised if Anaheim didn’t just go up to the podium and make a ton of draft picks this year and next.

I doubt Verbeek is able to pull the proverbial rabbit out of his hat and somehow turn the small batch of assets he got from Lindholm,Rakell, and Manson into meaningful players to get us back to even. Let alone improve the team from the first few months of this year.

And Trying to pull the rabbit out of the hat by going for players like Chychurun would likely just be compounding his mistakes.

Direct from the source, Verbeek:

"We studied successful teams, then we found our own way to do it," Verbeek said. "In Tampa, we were fortunate because we had [Steven] Stamkos and [Victor] Hedman, two major pieces we could build around. That was a big advantage. We wanted draft picks. We wanted to throw as many darts at the board as we could. Then we need to make sure players develop. Those go hand-in-hand if you're going to build a team that can win in the cap era."​

Verbeek see the draft as a numbers game. The more you have, then the more you'll increase your chances of finding successful players. And Verbeek wants to be a young group.

Murray wasn't as extreme as Verbeek, but Murray has doubled dipped in the first round often (recently the 2016, 2019, and 2020 drafts). Also, Murray makes the most of what you have b/c we've been selecting in the 20's/late 20's often The scouting staff is amazing at finding NHL goaltending and defensemen. Finding success on forwards is a recent development by our scouts. heh Murray used a layered/insulation approach to rebuilding... errr rebuilding on the fly.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

We are signing kadri at 6 years.. Bank on it.. 8mil per year or so.. Gottta over pay to offset the taxes in CA

Jesus Christ no

 

[StarDucks]

Yep.... Either way you cut it losing Lindholm and them him signing that amazing deal was idiotic... We'll see what he makes of it.

I mean is spending 3 1sts (or whatever the ask is) to get Chychrun better? That alone would be more than we got for all three UFA’s combined.


Edit: Oops. Quoted wrong person. Meant to quote David

 

[Hey234]

I'll take a stab at it. Sign Palat, re-sign Getzlaf, sign UFA rhd, trade for Fiala, and trade for Chychrun. Steel and Comtois lost in trades.

Palat-Zegras-Fiala
Henrique-Lundestrom-Terry
McTavish-Getzlaf-Silfverberg
Jones-Grant-Carrick

Fowler-UFA
Chychrun-Drysdale
Vaakanainen-Shattenkirk

 

[Paul4587]

Yep.... Either way you cut it losing Lindholm and them him signing that amazing deal was idiotic... We'll see what he makes of it.

The back half of that deal will be a disaster for Boston. Verbeek 100% made the right call.

 

[Dryish]

The back half of that deal will be a disaster for Boston. Verbeek 100% made the right call.

I am inclined to agree. One thing we're not really discussing at all here is building sustained success. That's not what we'd necessarily have with Lindholm on the books.

We know Verbeek comes from Tampa where they literally took on the challenge of creating a team capable of winning several cups. I think it's safe to assume that's the plan here. Simultaneously we know that it's reasonable to assume that Lindholm's play will get worse 3-4 years into his new contract. Even with him in the roster, it takes about that long to get to a point where we have even a theoretical shot at cup competition.

Realistically, we'd have a year, possibly two, of being competitive with him around, and then it's another decline where we'd have to retool the D slightly to have the same shot. We all know how hard that is from previous experience.

Sure we'd be a massively better team for the first half of the contract, but is the tail end worth it? I don't necessarily think so. If we can sign a couple of decent stopgap D-men and avoid the Edmonton scenario, I think we come out on top.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I think sitting on those picks would be the worst thing he can do.

Why? I honestly have never understood this line of thinking. For some reason a lot of people on here DISlike having a ton of draft picks.

Draft and developing has evolved over the years. If you hoard a bunch of picks, you can increase your chances hitting on the right players.

 

[DavidBL]

I mean is spending 3 1sts (or whatever the ask is) to get Chychrun better? That alone would be more than we got for all three UFA’s combined.


Edit: Oops. Quoted wrong person. Meant to quote David

Sorry. Typing on my phone I get a lot of typos. I was saying I don't think Chychrun is actually the right target. We need guys who play D and PK. Rather spend what assets we have to get forward upgrades. If we sit on the picks we will literally be trash for 3-4 years and I can't support that.

 

[DavidBL]

Why? I honestly have never understood this line of thinking. For some reason a lot of people on here like having a ton of draft picks.

Draft and developing has evolved over the years. If you hoard a bunch of picks, you can increase your chances hitting on the right players.

And you also risk that none of them work out.... look at the 3 firsts that Boston had in a row. None of those players has really worked out for them. I don't understand why so many people are obsessed with picks. I don't want to horde them. Using them in the draft is holding them. I want us to package them to get players who WILL make us better then a some guys who MIGHT do that in 4 years.

 

[bsu]

And you also risk that none of them work out.... look at the 3 firsts that Boston had in a row. None of those players has really worked out for them. I don't understand why so many people are obsessed with picks. I don't want to horde them. Using them in the draft is holding them. I want us to package them to get players who WILL make us better then a some guys who MIGHT do that in 4 years.

Mystery box

 

[StarDucks]

And you also risk that none of them work out.... look at the 3 firsts that Boston had in a row. None of those players has really worked out for them. I don't understand why so many people are obsessed with picks. I don't want to horde them. Using them in the draft is holding them. I want us to package them to get players who WILL make us better then a some guys who MIGHT do that in 4 years.

Indeed, but as bad as the forwards are The defense is now probably worse. I’m not sure what the point of spending assets to improve the team upfront would be if the team is still only marginally better than trash because they can’t move the puck.

I’m pretty doubtful Verbeek is able to improve both the forwards and defense in unison quickly. The odds of us being trash either way( spending assets or not) for the next few years is pretty damn high

 

[StarDucks]

And you also risk that none of them work out.... look at the 3 firsts that Boston had in a row. None of those players has really worked out for them. I don't understand why so many people are obsessed with picks. I don't want to horde them. Using them in the draft is holding them. I want us to package them to get players who WILL make us better then a some guys who MIGHT do that in 4 years.

You’re not wrong. But it’s kind of like saying Arizona would be better off spending their mountain of picks for actual talent.

There are sooooo many holes to fill that chances are you just spent all your draft capital and still suck.

It’s funny right after the deadline I think my views more or less 100% lined up with yours regarding what they should do with the pics. But after thinking about it more, I just doubt they would be anything other than a fringe playoff contender even if they went out and nuked their whole prospect pool to improve the NHL team.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

You’re not wrong. But it’s kind of like saying Arizona would be better off spending their mountain of picks for actual talent.

There are sooooo many holes to fill that chances are you just spent all your draft capital and still suck.

It’s funny right after the deadline I think my views more or less 100% lined up with yours regarding what they should do with the pics. But after thinking about it more, I just doubt they would be anything other than a fringe playoff contender even if they went out and nuked their whole prospect pool to improve the NHL team.

If you have some corner stone pieces to build around and your just looking to fill out with a couple more star lvl players…. Why go draft and hope for it when you can just trade for it out right, or do a combo of the 2

 

[StarDucks]

If you have some corner stone pieces to build around and your just looking to fill out with a couple more star lvl players…. Why go draft and hope for it when you can just trade for it out right, or do a combo of the 2

I’d argue the team needs 3 top 4 defensemen(one of which is top pairing) and how many top 6 forwards? 4? At least one of which needs to be 1st line quality.

How are they filling all those holes?

 

[The Mighty Duck Man]

And you also risk that none of them work out.... look at the 3 firsts that Boston had in a row. None of those players has really worked out for them. I don't understand why so many people are obsessed with picks. I don't want to horde them. Using them in the draft is holding them. I want us to package them to get players who WILL make us better then a some guys who MIGHT do that in 4 years.

I think there are issues with having too many picks in too short of a time but there's plenty to love about draft picks. For starters, they're how you're going to build a winner. Everyone hates hearing it because it brings the least amount of instant gratification but it really is where the heavy lifting is done. Drafting a good player is significantly much preferable to trading for one too, given the drastic differences in cost. I don't think you need to horde and make every pick, but yeah, they're valuable.

I also don't think the Boston example really helps your point at all. Its the biggest draft failure of probably ever and its because the Bruins under Sweeney haven't been good at drafting. You put this scouting team or perhaps any other and the Bruins might've been a dynasty. That's one of the few drafting cases where it isn't just hindsight making it better.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

I think there are issues with having too many picks in too short of a time but there's plenty to love about draft picks. For starters, they're how you're going to build a winner. Everyone hates hearing it because it brings the least amount of instant gratification but it really is where the heavy lifting is done. Drafting a good player is significantly much preferable to trading for one too, given the drastic differences in cost. I don't think you need to horde and make every pick, but yeah, they're valuable.

I also don't think the Boston example really helps your point at all. Its the biggest draft failure of probably ever and its because the Bruins under Sweeney haven't been good at drafting. You put this scouting team or perhaps any other and the Bruins might've been a dynasty. That's one of the few drafting cases where it isn't just hindsight making it better.

I mean, just take a look at Arizona. If they hit on at least half of the picks they have accumulated in the coming drafts, they would be a threat in the coming years.

 

[KyleJRM]

Are a bunch of second round picks really going to get you much in trades anyway?

Our best resource for trades is our cap space

 

[DavidBL]

I’d argue the team needs 3 top 4 defensemen(one of which is top pairing) and how many top 6 forwards? 4? At least one of which needs to be 1st line quality.

How are they filling all those holes?

I think that may be a bit of an exaggeration. I have mention what I think the teams needs. 2 top 4 defensive D makes sense but more of a complimentary peice to Fowler and Drysdale. I think between Vaks and Drysdale we have 2 guys that are capable of handling those minutes. They may still not be reliable 100% of the time but we also need to let them grow into those roles. True number one would be nice and Drysdale is probably our best bet to get one. As for forwards we have 2 top in Terry and Zegras. 3 potentials in Rico, Milano and MC IMO. I agree we need 2 more and 1 should be a bonefied top liner which is why I've advocated throwing most of our assets at that. If we sit and wait for prospects we're are going to be cycling through guys every 4 years until we get lucky and get a generational talent that shoots up the timeline to break the 4 year cycle. Imo is a bad strategy and frankly as a fan not what I want to see.

 

[DavidBL]

I mean, just take a look at Arizona. If they hit on at least half of the picks they have accumulated in the coming drafts, they would be a threat in the coming years.

Statistics suggest they won't hit on half. Likely not even close.

 

[DavidBL]

Are a bunch of second round picks really going to get you much in trades anyway?

Our best resource for trades is our cap space

If second or later round picks aren't going to get much why are we taking cap dumps to add them? I'm so sick of hearing about more shots at the lottery that is the amateur draft. It's an import part of a successful franchise no doubt but it CANT be the sole source of building.