Speculation: 2021-22 Trade Thread VI : Who's your Dadonov?

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ADHB

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Gibby wasn't good the last two months of the season, but people saying Stolarz outperformed him by a wide margin over that span need to look at the opponents. Any time the team faced a poor, non-contending team, it was usually Stolarz in net. Not a surprise he looked a lot better.
 

tomd

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I'll still be surprised if Gibson isn't traded. At best, next year's team is going to be only marginally better than the post TDL team last year. Thinking that Gibson's mindset will be able to handle that is just too optimistic. Biggest decision of Verbeek's young tenure here in Anaheim.
 

DavidBL

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I'll still be surprised if Gibson isn't traded. At best, next year's team is going to be only marginally better than the post TDL team last year. Thinking that Gibson's mindset will be able to handle that is just too optimistic. Biggest decision of Verbeek's young tenure here in Anaheim.
My hot take will be that we are in the playoff race by TDL next season. Unless of course he does continue to sell what's left of the core vets.
 
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tomd

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My hot take will be that we are in the playoff race by TDL next season. Unless of course he does continue to sell what's left of the core vets.
You keep saying that but provide no clue as to how all this improvement is going to happen. The Ducks had 3 forwards over 40 points last year. Who is going to come in and make it 6 or 7 forwards over 40 points? Who is going to replace Lindholm and Manson on D? Who is going to replace Getzlaf's leadership? Who is going to provide toughness in the lineup on a regular basis? How is Gibson going to survive another season with the absolutely horrid D corp he will have in front of him?
 

DavidBL

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You keep saying that but provide no clue as to how all this improvement is going to happen. The Ducks had 3 forwards over 40 points last year. Who is going to come in and make it 6 or 7 forwards over 40 points? Who is going to replace Lindholm and Manson on D? Who is going to replace Getzlaf's leadership? Who is going to provide toughness in the lineup on a regular basis? How is Gibson going to survive another season with the absolutely horrid D corp he will have in front of him?
I don't have all the answers for you. Kind why its a Hot take.
 

tomd

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I don't have all the answers for you. Kind why its a Hot take.
No problem. Just trying to point out the very large mountain this team needs to climb. The current roster is on par with Arizona. If you don't believe me do a side-by-side comparison.
 

DavidBL

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No problem. Just trying to point out the very large mountain this team needs to climb. The current roster is on par with Arizona. If you don't believe me do a side-by-side comparison.
I've been pretty open about my belief that I think PV will be very active this summer and I don't expect a team any where near as bad as Post TDL but closer to the start of the season team. I know you feel like there will be less building more more deconstructing and there very well could be. I am hoping for the former, Maybe he doesn't get there in one summer but I hope he makes strides towards that goal.
 
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MMC

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I do not feel strongly one way or another on keeping or trading Gibson, however, if he's upset because he wants to win, and wants to win here, he needs to take some responsibility for why that hasn't happened. I'm not blaming the team's cratering on him by any means, but how many teams win with a goaltender with a .904 SV%?
 
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tomd

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I've been pretty open about my belief that I think PV will be very active this summer and I don't expect a team any where near as bad as Post TDL but closer to the start of the season team. I know you feel like there will be less building more more deconstructing and there very well could be. I am hoping for the former, Maybe he doesn't get there in one summer but I hope he makes strides towards that goal.
I think Verbeek will make progress this summer towards making the team better. But the better will start happening 2-3 years from now. The next two seasons are going to be painful. Verbeek has asked for patience. Give it to him.
 

Leonardo87

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I think Verbeek will make progress this summer towards making the team better. But the better will start happening 2-3 years from now. The next two seasons are going to be painful. Verbeek has asked for patience. Give it to him.

I think if a lot of things go well, like player development, Vets aging well, and the ideal off-season acquisitions work out well, could be shooting for a playoff spot or on the bubble in 2 years. I agree on next year will be rough but it will be all about player development and taking the right steps forward.
 

KyleJRM

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You keep saying that but provide no clue as to how all this improvement is going to happen. The Ducks had 3 forwards over 40 points last year. Who is going to come in and make it 6 or 7 forwards over 40 points? Who is going to replace Lindholm and Manson on D? Who is going to replace Getzlaf's leadership? Who is going to provide toughness in the lineup on a regular basis? How is Gibson going to survive another season with the absolutely horrid D corp he will have in front of him?

We have to add significant amounts of NHL talent just to make the cap floor, and we have aot of young players who should be on the upswing
 

DavidBL

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I think Verbeek will make progress this summer towards making the team better. But the better will start happening 2-3 years from now. The next two seasons are going to be painful. Verbeek has asked for patience. Give it to him.
See I dont see the guys we have making us markedly better in 2-3 years, or anyone we could get in this year's draft save maybe the top 10 pick. Assuming we hit and not get Ritchie or worse. I've asked this before what is he asking patience for? To start seeing improvement or to being a Cup contender? They're 2 very different things. I'm not expecting to be in the finals next year or even a guarantee to make the playoffs. Just challenging for it. Doesn't seem like too much to ask IMO.
 

bsu

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We will be no where near playoffs next season.
 

tomd

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See I dont see the guys we have making us markedly better in 2-3 years, or anyone we could get in this year's draft save maybe the top 10 pick. Assuming we hit and not get Ritchie or worse. I've asked this before what is he asking patience for? To start seeing improvement or to being a Cup contender? They're 2 very different things. I'm not expecting to be in the finals next year or even a guarantee to make the playoffs. Just challenging for it. Doesn't seem like too much to ask IMO.
Verbeek is building this team through the draft. He has admitted as much. It takes time even under the best of situations.

The problem with your approach is that you make it sound so easy but you can't articulate a strategy to implement it. If you were GM for a day, how would you go about it?
 

DavidBL

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Verbeek is building this team through the draft. He has admitted as much. It takes time even under the best of situations.

The problem with your approach is that you make it sound so easy but you can't articulate a strategy to implement it. If you were GM for a day, how would you go about it?
Building through the draft isnt exactly articulating a strategy any more than saying g target Specifc UFAs or trade targets. You do see that right? You ask for a strategy but there are so many different ways ways to get to the finish line it's kind of pointless to pinpoint a single way. "Build through the draft" is a catch all that doesn't require your articulated strategy either. Further I'd argue that we've been building through the draft for 3+ years. We've always. But now we have 4 top 10 picks. How many do you think is necessary?
 

WhatTheDuck

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I do not feel strongly one way or another on keeping or trading Gibson, however, if he's upset because he wants to win, and wants to win here, he needs to take some responsibility for why that hasn't happened. I'm not blaming the team's cratering on him by any means, but how many teams win with a goaltender with a .904 SV%?

Avs have a legit shot of winning this Cup with a sub .900 goalie
 

tomd

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Building through the draft isnt exactly articulating a strategy any more than saying g target Specifc UFAs or trade targets. You do see that right? You ask for a strategy but there are so many different ways ways to get to the finish line it's kind of pointless to pinpoint a single way. "Build through the draft" is a catch all that doesn't require your articulated strategy either. Further I'd argue that we've been building through the draft for 3+ years. We've always. But now we have 4 top 10 picks. How many do you think is necessary?
Building through the draft is absolutely a strategy. Look at the two teams in the SC Finals. Where did the majority of their best players come from? Yup, the draft. So we'll agree to disagree on that. How long does it take? Depends on if the team makes the right picks and gets some luck with the lottery balls.

If you don't build through the draft you have the trade/free agency options. Free agents typically don't come to California and have to be overpaid if they do. So that's not a reliable way to get your best players especially with a salary cap. Trades can work as long as you have assets to trade. But what assets do the Ducks have left to trade? Gibson for sure. Their '23 1st rounder for sure. Not much else is going to return the type of player you are expecting to receive. Sure, you can get a 2nd liner for a couple of 2nd's like LA did with Arvidsson last year. But he's 29 years old...how are you building a team with 29 year olds? You want to trade this year's 1st? ok. What will you get for it? Maybe a down payment on Fiala or Chychrun or some other mid/late 20s 2nd liner. But you'll need to throw in more and at the end of the day you have just build a team that on their best day might make a run at the playoffs...but that's about it. I hope Verbeek is here to build a SC champion...like Colorado and TB have done.
 

Anaheim4ever

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Gibson will probably be facing 50 shots a game since there no longer is Lindholm and Manson. Of course he'd be open to being traded. It's not fun to face 50 shots a night and give up 4 to 6 goals depending on if he decides to play hard or not.
 

robbieboy3686

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Some of you are so clueless. I would bet my right arm against $1000 that with the cap space and draft capital we have acquired ( and guys in the system alreAsy that PV might not like due to being small( zellwegger etc ) that we go out and sign lindholm and manson replacements as well a a very solid bottom pairing dman. And we add a fíala type. PV will just trade prospects alreAsy in the system and picks added at the deadline to add young guys and over pay for the defensive large vets I mention. I can almost guarantee you, that the pandemic of little guys like fowler and drsdale not being able to clear the front of the net. Will not be a problem anymore, with the new guys we have coming in. A guy like Zellwegger is 100% on the table in a trade for an age and salary appropriate guy like chychuryn. We will be the surpise team of the nhl next season. Boook that ( and I’m someone who’s alwAys been more of a pessimist ) just that in this scenario, you guys are reading way to much into our trades at the deadline. We never got it done with raks and manson and lindholm as our core guys ( they also were often hurt ) PV simply wants to bring in guys he loves. And he has the cap space , and the draft capital to do so.
 

Bergey37

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Some of you are so clueless. I would bet my right arm against $1000 that with the cap space and draft capital we have acquired ( and guys in the system alreAsy that PV might not like due to being small( zellwegger etc ) that we go out and sign lindholm and manson replacements as well a a very solid bottom pairing dman. And we add a fíala type. PV will just trade prospects alreAsy in the system and picks added at the deadline to add young guys and over pay for the defensive large vets I mention. I can almost guarantee you, that the pandemic of little guys like fowler and drsdale not being able to clear the front of the net. Will not be a problem anymore, with the new guys we have coming in. A guy like Zellwegger is 100% on the table in a trade for an age and salary appropriate guy like chychuryn. We will be the surpise team of the nhl next season. Boook that ( and I’m someone who’s alwAys been more of a pessimist ) just that in this scenario, you guys are reading way to much into our trades at the deadline. We never got it done with raks and manson and lindholm as our core guys ( they also were often hurt ) PV simply wants to bring in guys he loves. And he has the cap space , and the draft capital to do so.
Seems perfectly obvious, doesn’t it? Perhaps adding talent that you like is a way of “making the team in your own image” as well.
 
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DavidBL

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Building through the draft is absolutely a strategy. Look at the two teams in the SC Finals. Where did the majority of their best players come from? Yup, the draft. So we'll agree to disagree on that. How long does it take? Depends on if the team makes the right picks and gets some luck with the lottery balls.

If you don't build through the draft you have the trade/free agency options. Free agents typically don't come to California and have to be overpaid if they do. So that's not a reliable way to get your best players especially with a salary cap. Trades can work as long as you have assets to trade. But what assets do the Ducks have left to trade? Gibson for sure. Their '23 1st rounder for sure. Not much else is going to return the type of player you are expecting to receive. Sure, you can get a 2nd liner for a couple of 2nd's like LA did with Arvidsson last year. But he's 29 years old...how are you building a team with 29 year olds? You want to trade this year's 1st? ok. What will you get for it? Maybe a down payment on Fiala or Chychrun or some other mid/late 20s 2nd liner. But you'll need to throw in more and at the end of the day you have just build a team that on their best day might make a run at the playoffs...but that's about it. I hope Verbeek is here to build a SC champion...like Colorado and TB have done.
I said it wasn't articulating a strategy. Like saying trade for players and sign UFAs isn't in your articulating a strategy. More than 50% of Tampa wasn't drafted actually. Only a SINGLE D is. Know how many of those top players were actually drafted top 10? Stamkos and Hedmen. Kucherov, point Cirelli all 2nd or 3rd rounders.
As for the strategy we have 2 firsts? Are you saying we couldn't put together a package for a decent forward without both? I have no interest in Chychrun. Not sure why he keeps coming up. I've also never advocated signing a top UFA Ala Giroux Malkin, Gudreau or Forsberg. I've always suggest second their guys like Palat or Burakovsky. What I have suggested is that we should try and get a top young player if we can. I do t think we should include any of Z, T, D, or M. But the 10th if we keep 23 I don't think should be off limits. We're not likely to get a player as good as most of the proposed targets there anyway. I have ALWAYS stated it depends on the cost. But we have what 3 pretty high end LD prospects. We have a number of forward prospects. Not to mention what 4 extra picks we've gotten already for the next 2 drafts.
 

tomd

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I said it wasn't articulating a strategy. Like saying trade for players and sign UFAs isn't in your articulating a strategy. More than 50% of Tampa wasn't drafted actually. Only a SINGLE D is. Know how many of those top players were actually drafted top 10? Stamkos and Hedmen. Kucherov, point Cirelli all 2nd or 3rd rounders.
As for the strategy we have 2 firsts? Are you saying we couldn't put together a package for a decent forward without both? I have no interest in Chychrun. Not sure why he keeps coming up. I've also never advocated signing a top UFA Ala Giroux Malkin, Gudreau or Forsberg. I've always suggest second their guys like Palat or Burakovsky. What I have suggested is that we should try and get a top young player if we can. I do t think we should include any of Z, T, D, or M. But the 10th if we keep 23 I don't think should be off limits. We're not likely to get a player as good as most of the proposed targets there anyway. I have ALWAYS stated it depends on the cost. But we have what 3 pretty high end LD prospects. We have a number of forward prospects. Not to mention what 4 extra picks we've gotten already for the next 2 drafts.
LIke politics, we're never going to find common ground so we can just agree to disagree. Maybe I'll be wrong but I don't think the team that breaks camp in October will be materially better than the team right now. Some small additions and not much else. And potentially without Gibson as well. I also believe it is part of Verbeek's longer term strategy for the team to be bad next year. We'll see if I'm right.
 

Bergey37

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LIke politics, we're never going to find common ground so we can just agree to disagree. Maybe I'll be wrong but I don't think the team that breaks camp in October will be materially better than the team right now. Some small additions and not much else. And potentially without Gibson as well. I also believe it is part of Verbeek's longer term strategy for the team to be bad next year. We'll see if I'm right.
I don’t believe that for a minute.
 
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