Rumor: 2021-22 Trade Rumors and FA Part V: To Giroux or not to Giroux

[The Kingslayer]

Return seems pretty light for the Habs in this case

Fire sale time in Montreal

 

[Pokecheque]

The best center in the 2013 draft is playing on their 3rd line? On a serious note, good trade for CGY…I hate it.

Yeah, same.

 

[S E P H]

That's also not even true. Last year the Avs were 8th in the entire league at 51.6%.

I wonder how much of that was on divisional play in the worst division in hockey than Avs being a good FO team. I don't think FO's are necessarily important, but at times they have lead to goals against for us and weirdly quite a bit in the Vegas series last year. Avs don't need to go out and be a top five FO team, but they can't be in the bottom five to ten in anything.

 

[John Mandalorian]

I wonder how much of that was on divisional play in the worst division in hockey than Avs being a good FO team. I don't think FO's are necessarily important, but at times they have lead to goals against for us and weirdly quite a bit in the Vegas series last year. Avs don't need to go out and be a top five FO team, but they can't be in the bottom five to ten in anything.

So the "worst division in hockey" equals worst division at face offs?

 

[Pokecheque]

Return seems pretty light for the Habs in this case

I dunno, first rounder, legit prospect, and a okay-ish grinder (mostly for salary purposes) seems like a fine return. Toffoli's a really good player IMO but he's not a star.

Also, I wonder how much the Habs are hampered by their own salary cap situation.

 

[The Merchant]

Fully prepared for one of the Avs direct rivals (MIN or VGK) to swoop in and get Giroux. Then all the big outlets can say “Sakic was in, right until the end.”

Giroux's first interview as a Wild: "Yeah well I thought it was going to be Colorado for a while there, but I'm really excited to try and win a Cup with this group of guys."

 

[flyfysher]

So the "worst division in hockey" equals worst division at face offs?

If you phrase it as replace Jost/Compher then many more readers will be far more receptive to the idea that the Avs need someone that's more competent at taking FOs.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

So a guy with 2½ years left on his deal, at a good cap hit, that scored 28 goals last year, and is 29 years old fetched a low 1st, a 5th, a B prospect, and an expansion draft pick that was basically a cap dump?

I'd say that's probably good for everyone wanting to add, and not so good for teams selling. Certainly can't be good for Philly wanting to trade a guy 5 years older, who's a UFA, has a large cap hit, and has a full NMC and only willing to go to about 3-4 teams.

 

[flyfysher]

Giroux's first interview as a Wild: "Yeah well I thought it was going to be Colorado for a while there, but I'm really excited to try and win a Cup with this group of guys."

Aren't the Wild supposed to fall into cap hell in the next season or two? Aside from despising that team, I have to imagine if that's true then it's going to be tough for their fans in terms of tempering their expectations after having a taste of competitiveness now. Really, it should make us appreciate how Sakic has managed the cap for the Avs.

 

[S E P H]

So the "worst division in hockey" equals worst division at face offs?

Worst division hockey has the worst players in hockey. A lot of the really bad faceoff takers tend to be rookies or young players on rebuilding teams.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Worst division hockey has the worst players in hockey. A lot of the really bad faceoff takers tend to be rookies or young players on rebuilding teams.

Interesting take considering all the data that was shared indicating that, in the big picture, face offs are relatively meaningless.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I wonder how much of that was on divisional play in the worst division in hockey than Avs being a good FO team. I don't think FO's are necessarily important, but at times they have lead to goals against for us and weirdly quite a bit in the Vegas series last year. Avs don't need to go out and be a top five FO team, but they can't be in the bottom five to ten in anything.

I only care about faceoffs in the Ozone on a PP or with the goalie pulled. In the d zone always.

 

[S E P H]

Interesting take considering all the data that was shared indicating that, in the big picture, face offs are relatively meaningless.

FO's don't lead to wins, but sometimes they do lead to goals. It's more exacerbated in the playoffs as goals are harder to come by, thus the mistakes get amplified by fans and media (i.g. Graves shot block or Kadri losing his man in OT against the Stars).

 

[John Mandalorian]

FO's don't lead to wins, but sometimes they do lead to goals. It's more exacerbated in the playoffs as goals are harder to come by, thus the mistakes get amplified by fans and media (i.g. Graves shot block).

It's been pretty well established by the data presented that face off percentage has little to no impact on overall team success. Then here you come saying something completely different. LOL.

 

[Avaholic29]

Interesting take considering all the data that was shared indicating that, in the big picture, face offs are relatively meaningless.

They are meaningless until you lose 4 faceoffs in a row in the defensive zone and all of them lead to point shots that almost go in or do go in, which is often the case in the playoffs (Dallas and Vegas had a field day). Having a solid guy or two is pretty clutch.

 

[Ararana]

The best center in the 2013 draft is playing on their 3rd line? On a serious note, good trade for CGY…I hate it.

Calgary is probably our only shot at Vegas getting eliminated before the WCF. I hope Calgary stacks their roster.

 

[John Mandalorian]

They are meaningless until you lose 4 faceoffs in a row in the defensive zone and all of them lead to point shots that almost go in or do go in, which is often the case in the playoffs (Dallas and Vegas had a field day). Having a solid guy or two is pretty clutch.

The best teams will clearly be in trouble in all of these scenarios then since several of them are in the middle or near the bottom of FO%.

How do these teams ever win games?

 

[The Merchant]

Aren't the Wild supposed to fall into cap hell in the next season or two? Aside from despising that team, I have to imagine if that's true then it's going to be tough for their fans in terms of tempering their expectations after having a taste of competitiveness now. Really, it should make us appreciate how Sakic has managed the cap for the Avs.

Yep only about $15mill in dead cap for the next two seasons, which would lead one to believe they'd be even more all-in this year considering how good they are.

 

[Avaholic29]

The best teams will clearly be in trouble in all of these scenarios then since several of them are in the middle or near the bottom of FO%.

How do these teams ever win games?

losing crucial draws doesn’t always mean a loss, doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea to negate situations like I mentioned lol. Are you saying it’s not that big of a deal to get cooked in defensive zone draws that lead to scoring chances? It’s good to have a solid faceoff guy for situations.

 

[S E P H]

It's been pretty well established by the data presented that face off percentage has little to no impact on overall team success. Then here you come saying something completely different. LOL.

Which I mentioned in my last post, maybe you somehow missed it where I said that FO don't lead to wins? Not sure how someone who is component enough to respond to me with the English language missed that sentence? However, there are - small and few expectational times - that it does matter and context is important there. As @The Kingslayer wrote in his post, FO's can be important if a team loses them constantly on the PP, which then prevents them to properly setup in the opponents zone. This could potentially (key word is potentially) lead to a bad powerplay percentage, especially when it's more critical in the post-season when you have fewer games and plays to make an impact.

I am not sure how this discussion even got here, I was responding that Avs being 8th last season could be because of that division than Avs being a good faceoff team. Avs are 29th yet are first in the league, but you come in here quoting me for unknown reasons'.

 

[S E P H]

They are meaningless until you lose 4 faceoffs in a row in the defensive zone and all of them lead to point shots that almost go in or do go in, which is often the case in the playoffs (Dallas and Vegas had a field day). Having a solid guy or two is pretty clutch.

I am pretty sure one of Vegas' goals in game six came from like two or three straight faceoff losses if I remember right. But again, that's one of the more smaller exceptions than the actual norm in hockey.

 

[John Mandalorian]

losing crucial draws doesn’t always mean a loss, doesn’t mean it’s a bad idea to negate situations like I mentioned lol. Are you saying it’s not that big of a deal to get cooked in defensive zone draws that lead to scoring chances? It’s good to have a solid faceoff guy for situations.

I'm simply replying to the idea, which had been expressed, that bad divisions = bad teams = bad at faceoffs.

Quite honestly, this discussion (about the importance of FOs) had been fully discussed and was also being insufferably beaten to death before this comment.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Calgary is probably our only shot at Vegas getting eliminated before the WCF. I hope Calgary stacks their roster.

Could see the Avs getting goalied by Markstrom. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[flyfysher]

Yep only about $15mill in dead cap for the next two seasons, which would lead one to believe they'd be even more all-in this year considering how good they are.

 

[John Mandalorian]

Which I mentioned in my last post, maybe you somehow missed it where I said that FO don't lead to wins? Not sure how someone who is component enough to respond to me with the English language missed that sentence? However, there are - small and few expectational times - that it does matter and context is important there. As @The Kingslayer wrote in his post, FO's can be important if a team loses them constantly on the PP, which then prevents them to properly setup in the opponents zone. This could potentially (key word is potentially) lead to a bad powerplay percentage, especially when it's more critical in the post-season when you have fewer games and plays to make an impact.

I am not sure how this discussion even got here, I was responding that Avs being 8th last season could be because of that division than Avs being a good faceoff team. Avs are 29th yet are first in the league, but you come in here quoting me for unknown reasons'.

Well I don't speak English like a soccer hooligan, so maybe that's the reason for the disconnect?

You said the Avs face off % was buoyed by playing in the worst division. Because you felt it was necessary to make this comment, one has every reason to think that you believe it's somehow relevant, no?