GDT: 2021-22 season LA Kings vs Pittsburgh Penguins @10:00AM 1/30/22

[Matt13]

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING –
I THINK THEY LOVE OUR CHROME DOMES
AND WHO THE F*** IS TREVOR MOORE!? EDITION

BlindWillyMcHurt : Feels like a pretty obvious loss incoming, huh?
Victor Z : No way. L.A. was on the ice less than 24 hours ago in Philly while the Pens are well-rested and that makes all the difference. Seriously, at least Jarry unexpectedly got a full game off on Friday so he actually should be fresh and perhaps can steal a win here.
BlindWillyMcHurt : Yeah I feel like they never win against the Kings. Plus the team just looks super flat right now.
Trade : LA punked us last time we played them. Hopefully we come back swingin.
Ugene Malkin : LA/lLAma. Punk'd was a lesser part of it. Though now, it makes a lot more sense thinking about it.
Peat : I swear to god hockey is the stupidest sport on the planet about the utility of giving athletes rest and the value of fresh legs, despite it being baked into the sport.
wgknestrick : LA really needs some tinted visers

Randy Butternubs : That's a lot of helmet polishing.
DatGuy : These helmets should be banned.
dogthateats : Their helmets are shiny! anyone notice?
Daeni10 : Those helmets are looking like those fake plastic rings you can get
Zirakzigil : Wait until you see the Kings and Knights play with them.
NewAgeOutlaw : Those helmets make it look like half of the Kings' players' heads are missing from a distance.
dogthateats : same helmets:

Randy Butternubs : I've not been skating in like 15 years. Might have to head to the armory sometime soon to try it out again.
AuroraBorealis : Maatta has as many playoff points as Rust, in a very similar number of games.
Our playoff results started getting worse when he wasn't available.
eXile3 : Maatta also played a lot for us during a time we were successful and Rust playing a lot during a period where the whole team is struggling in the playoffs. Context matters.
Ogrezilla : Kings, make the rest of the grey on your uniform shiny silver to match the helmets you cowards
wgknestrick : Malkin and Carter have the highest GA/60 of all regular forwards and by a significant margin.
dogthateats : That Danault line is winning a lot of puck battles and keeping possession, but not getting many shots on goal.
Andy99 : LA’s best line… the Kings are still a bad matchup for us….
Bnat66 : Figures the second I tune in the Kings score a goal
NewAgeOutlaw : Dude threw Matheson down by his arm from behind. That has to be a penalty.
Smasher : Maatta looks fast compared to Geno
BlindWillyMcHurt : Well this is slowly unfolding into a nice little dumpster fire!
vodeni : have some faith, Kings are on back to back we must push it harder
Andy99 : People overrate the Pens because of the winning streak…LA plays playoff hockey…I think Hextall is going to have to make a bigger move at the TDL than he thinks…
BlindWillyMcHurt : 1-0 is a friggin' mountain for this team to climb, right now. People can piss and moan all they want about Malkin because THAT never gets tired af but the entire team looks like it's lost it's hands and aggression.
Andy99 : LA looks way better than the Pens so far this period…
dogthateats : Byfield another penalty
NewAgeOutlaw : I'd say that's a soft call but Byfield did get away with a blatant crosscheck a second earlier.
AuroraBorealis : Calling that one soft is like calling the rule soft. That is the most consistently called penalty.
Trade : GENO TO SID! WE LOVE THOSE
Gurglesons : Powerplay has been incredible the last stretch.
vodeni : this may be save of the day on Kopitar
wgknestrick : Carter needs to go back to wing
Ugene Malkin : That was a nice roofer... (MOORE'S BACKHAND GOAL)
dogthateats : That was a sick goal
Trade : That was a nasty backhander
Jacob : Who da f*** is Trevor Moore
ncm7772 : Makes me think of Trevor Moorhouse from Scream Bloody Murder. Good Friday the 13th knock off.
CheckingLineCenter : This game is just frustrating as hell
Ugene Malkin : Maybe they should hit less and play hockey more...
Andy99 : i think the Pens are a lot slower than they used to be…with Boyle, Carter, Geno in the middle showing their ages…
USS FJB : The fact that the pens have 31 hits to 6 by LA.....nukes all stats....lol Funniest thing I have ever seen
Andy99 : just means the Pens don’t have the puck…LA better on the walls, at holding onto pucks and faster to pucks
NewAgeOutlaw : Old man Carter put on the afterburners.
Killahpunk : This is getting ugly. 3-1 Kings.
Bnat66 : I hate the f***ing Kings
Solzhenitsyn : Haha damn. Carter’s extension killed the team
USS FJB : carter needs to be let go after this season.....ooops
Zirakzigil : This about sums up our play for the last while. Kings are capitalizing on the Pens mehness
Andy99 : Come on those of you who actually thought we’d beat the Kings….just a terrible matchup for us and always has been lol
Ginormousthumbs : Pens getting out worked
GregR : Guentzel to Crosby and then Crosby to the Kings
Victor Z : I'd hate to see how fast the Kings would be blowing past us if they weren't so exhausted from playing back to back. Maybe they'll show their obvious fatigue in the third period.
Bnat66 : Cant' remember the last time the Pens beat the Kings home or away.
eXile3 : I would not call LA a bad team. I will admit there are some concerning trends emerging. Crosby and Malkin are going to have to score at McDavid levels if they're going to continue to turn the puck over at this cadence.
BlindWillyMcHurt : It doesn't matter if the Kings are fatigued if they don't have to work that hard.
AuroraBorealis : LA are a middling team, not a bad team. They are ranked 17th in P%.
DesertedPenguin : The Kings aren't a bad team. They're a playoff team at the moment and have some promising players.
SEALBound : Cup winning strategy: avoid the LA Kings
Ragamuffin Gunner : LA is 17th in win %. They are not a good team. They also played yesterday so the "pens are just tired" excuse can't fly today.
Andy99 : Kings on a long road trip and on a b2b….see we all can make excuses…the Flyers played the Kings tougher yesterday
HandshakeLine : I'd find it easier to relax if the game was more entertaining, tbh. When I want my free time to feel like work, it's because I'm in the gym or something. I'm okay with losing as long as it's more exciting.
vodeni : big F bomb by Geno
BlindWillyMcHurt : Malkin just saying what we're all thinking.
Honour Over Glory : Sully getting his ass owned by LA twice is just...what the f*** is this line up?
Ugene Malkin : I'm still having fun...

Smasher : Crosby has looked amazing lately.
Victor Z : L.A. is getting sleepy.... sleepy.... sleepy....
KrisLetAngry : Expect some high risk chances coming up. Kings will be playing 1 goal lead 3rd period hockey and Penguins will have to try to brute force there way in giving up odd man rushes. Test for Jarry and a test to see if we can push through.
Trade : Someone needs to humble Lemieux.
ZorkEnchanter : Lemieux has been getting lined up by Pens.
Victor Z : That punk won't fight Boyle (as if Boyle is some kind of fighter) and nobody else on the Pens knows how to throw a real punch.
GregR : Doughty scores for both teams
AuroraBorealis : I love seeing Doughty's disappointed face
HandshakeLine : Man, this period is much more fun. It's like I'm watching an entirely different game.
Killahpunk : Ugh Moore gives the Kings the lead.
HandshakeLine : Can we figure out a way to blame Malkin on this one?
Daeni10 : I always thought Moore was a defenseman in his 30s
Smasher : Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Ugene Malkin : The new Penguin killer.
Rossi Rat : Trevor Moore again FFS who the hell is he.
Clare2904 : Oh, Kings scored again
HandshakeLine : What a dumb game.
Rossi Rat : Glad the Kings play like world beaters against the Pens. The ASB can’t come soon enough.
Honour Over Glory : And the coach doesn't quite get it, by the time the playoffs roll around, that team has nothing left in the tank. Jarry probably wants to quit and go back to his farm.
eXile3 : Losing to a team wearing those ridiculously ugly helmets.
Rossi Rat : You can’t beat Trevor Moore. You can only hope to contain him.

Randy Butternubs : That's a lot of helmet polishing.

 

[mysterman2]

Best hockey of the TMac era right here right now. Note Moverare with more TOI than Matta, Strand and Bjornfot. If Moverare grows into another solid Dman...a wealth of riches at the D position.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

We've needed one of our prospects to secure the 3rd line center spot all season. Vilardi couldn't do it. Then Kupari couldn't do it. Then Turcotte couldn't. Now Byfield isn't doing it..

Wow thats crazy, I wonder if there’s a common theme there that shows up in data repeatedly. I guess it’s probably just all the kids’ fault.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

 

[AbsentMojo]

Re Moverare - here's the article from 2016 where Yannetti says best IQ worst skater in draft. What I saw today was a lot of sound positioning - like he knows that his wheels wont get him places so he thinks about where he needs to be ahead of time (like when he sealed off that player cutting to the net)
Yannetti on 17-year-old Jacob Moverare, Kings 2016 Draft Pick

 

[bouncesonly]

Penguins fans asking who tf Trevor Moore is reminds me of this:

 

[kilowatt]

If you're making the assumption that many of our prospects are going to pan out, but there's certainly no guarantee of that.

We've needed one of our prospects to secure the 3rd line center spot all season. Vilardi couldn't do it. Then Kupari couldn't do it. Then Turcotte couldn't. Now Byfield isn't doing it.

Meanwhile guys like Iafallo, Moore, Lizotte are actually playing their roles perfectly. The way Lizotte has played he could be a 4th line center on any team in the NHL including a contender. Same with Moore as a middle six forward.

I wonder if we look for a UFA third line center if we have a real shot at the playoffs come the deadline. A left-shot defenseman is a need too. Not a ton of acquirable UFA centers available this year. Cody Eakin? Chris Tierney? Meh.

Our third line is an actual problem unless Byfield takes another step. I think he runs with the 3C spot until the deadline and we make a decision then. I think we could spread Athanasiou and Brown onto different lines do to make all the lines marginally worse to make the third line significantly better.

Iaffalo - Kopitar - Athanasiou
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Kempe - Byfield - Kaliyev
Lemieux - Lizotte - Brown

Anderson - Doughty
Chychrun - Roy
Soucy - Durzi

 

[Maynard]

Penguins fans asking who tf Trevor Moore is reminds me of this:

Hope they don’t find Trevor Moore in one of the vacants.

 

[Bandit]

WHAT THEY'RE SAYING –
I THINK THEY LOVE OUR CHROME DOMES
AND WHO THE F*** IS TREVOR MOORE!? EDITION

BlindWillyMcHurt : Feels like a pretty obvious loss incoming, huh?
Victor Z : No way. L.A. was on the ice less than 24 hours ago in Philly while the Pens are well-rested and that makes all the difference. Seriously, at least Jarry unexpectedly got a full game off on Friday so he actually should be fresh and perhaps can steal a win here.
BlindWillyMcHurt : Yeah I feel like they never win against the Kings. Plus the team just looks super flat right now.
Trade : LA punked us last time we played them. Hopefully we come back swingin.
Ugene Malkin : LA/lLAma. Punk'd was a lesser part of it. Though now, it makes a lot more sense thinking about it.
Peat : I swear to god hockey is the stupidest sport on the planet about the utility of giving athletes rest and the value of fresh legs, despite it being baked into the sport.
wgknestrick : LA really needs some tinted visers

Randy Butternubs : That's a lot of helmet polishing.
DatGuy : These helmets should be banned.
dogthateats : Their helmets are shiny! anyone notice?
Daeni10 : Those helmets are looking like those fake plastic rings you can get
Zirakzigil : Wait until you see the Kings and Knights play with them.
NewAgeOutlaw : Those helmets make it look like half of the Kings' players' heads are missing from a distance.
dogthateats : same helmets:

Randy Butternubs : I've not been skating in like 15 years. Might have to head to the armory sometime soon to try it out again.
AuroraBorealis : Maatta has as many playoff points as Rust, in a very similar number of games.
Our playoff results started getting worse when he wasn't available.
eXile3 : Maatta also played a lot for us during a time we were successful and Rust playing a lot during a period where the whole team is struggling in the playoffs. Context matters.
Ogrezilla : Kings, make the rest of the grey on your uniform shiny silver to match the helmets you cowards
wgknestrick : Malkin and Carter have the highest GA/60 of all regular forwards and by a significant margin.
dogthateats : That Danault line is winning a lot of puck battles and keeping possession, but not getting many shots on goal.
Andy99 : LA’s best line… the Kings are still a bad matchup for us….
Bnat66 : Figures the second I tune in the Kings score a goal
NewAgeOutlaw : Dude threw Matheson down by his arm from behind. That has to be a penalty.
Smasher : Maatta looks fast compared to Geno
BlindWillyMcHurt : Well this is slowly unfolding into a nice little dumpster fire!
vodeni : have some faith, Kings are on back to back we must push it harder
Andy99 : People overrate the Pens because of the winning streak…LA plays playoff hockey…I think Hextall is going to have to make a bigger move at the TDL than he thinks…
BlindWillyMcHurt : 1-0 is a friggin' mountain for this team to climb, right now. People can piss and moan all they want about Malkin because THAT never gets tired af but the entire team looks like it's lost it's hands and aggression.
Andy99 : LA looks way better than the Pens so far this period…
dogthateats : Byfield another penalty
NewAgeOutlaw : I'd say that's a soft call but Byfield did get away with a blatant crosscheck a second earlier.
AuroraBorealis : Calling that one soft is like calling the rule soft. That is the most consistently called penalty.
Trade : GENO TO SID! WE LOVE THOSE
Gurglesons : Powerplay has been incredible the last stretch.
vodeni : this may be save of the day on Kopitar
wgknestrick : Carter needs to go back to wing
Ugene Malkin : That was a nice roofer... (MOORE'S BACKHAND GOAL)
dogthateats : That was a sick goal
Trade : That was a nasty backhander
Jacob : Who da f*** is Trevor Moore
ncm7772 : Makes me think of Trevor Moorhouse from Scream Bloody Murder. Good Friday the 13th knock off.
CheckingLineCenter : This game is just frustrating as hell
Ugene Malkin : Maybe they should hit less and play hockey more...
Andy99 : i think the Pens are a lot slower than they used to be…with Boyle, Carter, Geno in the middle showing their ages…
USS FJB : The fact that the pens have 31 hits to 6 by LA.....nukes all stats....lol Funniest thing I have ever seen
Andy99 : just means the Pens don’t have the puck…LA better on the walls, at holding onto pucks and faster to pucks
NewAgeOutlaw : Old man Carter put on the afterburners.
Killahpunk : This is getting ugly. 3-1 Kings.
Bnat66 : I hate the f***ing Kings
Solzhenitsyn : Haha damn. Carter’s extension killed the team
USS FJB : carter needs to be let go after this season.....ooops
Zirakzigil : This about sums up our play for the last while. Kings are capitalizing on the Pens mehness
Andy99 : Come on those of you who actually thought we’d beat the Kings….just a terrible matchup for us and always has been lol
Ginormousthumbs : Pens getting out worked
GregR : Guentzel to Crosby and then Crosby to the Kings
Victor Z : I'd hate to see how fast the Kings would be blowing past us if they weren't so exhausted from playing back to back. Maybe they'll show their obvious fatigue in the third period.
Bnat66 : Cant' remember the last time the Pens beat the Kings home or away.
eXile3 : I would not call LA a bad team. I will admit there are some concerning trends emerging. Crosby and Malkin are going to have to score at McDavid levels if they're going to continue to turn the puck over at this cadence.
BlindWillyMcHurt : It doesn't matter if the Kings are fatigued if they don't have to work that hard.
AuroraBorealis : LA are a middling team, not a bad team. They are ranked 17th in P%.
DesertedPenguin : The Kings aren't a bad team. They're a playoff team at the moment and have some promising players.
SEALBound : Cup winning strategy: avoid the LA Kings
Ragamuffin Gunner : LA is 17th in win %. They are not a good team. They also played yesterday so the "pens are just tired" excuse can't fly today.
Andy99 : Kings on a long road trip and on a b2b….see we all can make excuses…the Flyers played the Kings tougher yesterday
HandshakeLine : I'd find it easier to relax if the game was more entertaining, tbh. When I want my free time to feel like work, it's because I'm in the gym or something. I'm okay with losing as long as it's more exciting.
vodeni : big F bomb by Geno
BlindWillyMcHurt : Malkin just saying what we're all thinking.
Honour Over Glory : Sully getting his ass owned by LA twice is just...what the f*** is this line up?
Ugene Malkin : I'm still having fun...

Smasher : Crosby has looked amazing lately.
Victor Z : L.A. is getting sleepy.... sleepy.... sleepy....
KrisLetAngry : Expect some high risk chances coming up. Kings will be playing 1 goal lead 3rd period hockey and Penguins will have to try to brute force there way in giving up odd man rushes. Test for Jarry and a test to see if we can push through.
Trade : Someone needs to humble Lemieux.
ZorkEnchanter : Lemieux has been getting lined up by Pens.
Victor Z : That punk won't fight Boyle (as if Boyle is some kind of fighter) and nobody else on the Pens knows how to throw a real punch.
GregR : Doughty scores for both teams
AuroraBorealis : I love seeing Doughty's disappointed face
HandshakeLine : Man, this period is much more fun. It's like I'm watching an entirely different game.
Killahpunk : Ugh Moore gives the Kings the lead.
HandshakeLine : Can we figure out a way to blame Malkin on this one?
Daeni10 : I always thought Moore was a defenseman in his 30s
Smasher : Who the f*** is Trevor Moore?
Ugene Malkin : The new Penguin killer.
Rossi Rat : Trevor Moore again FFS who the hell is he.
Clare2904 : Oh, Kings scored again
HandshakeLine : What a dumb game.
Rossi Rat : Glad the Kings play like world beaters against the Pens. The ASB can’t come soon enough.
Honour Over Glory : And the coach doesn't quite get it, by the time the playoffs roll around, that team has nothing left in the tank. Jarry probably wants to quit and go back to his farm.
eXile3 : Losing to a team wearing those ridiculously ugly helmets.
Rossi Rat : You can’t beat Trevor Moore. You can only hope to contain him.

Imagine being the clown that said the game wasn’t exciting

 

[AbsentMojo]

I wonder if we look for a UFA third line center if we have a real shot at the playoffs come the deadline. A left-shot defenseman is a need too. Not a ton of acquirable UFA centers available this year. Cody Eakin? Chris Tierney? Meh.

Our third line is an actual problem unless Byfield takes another step. I think he runs with the 3C spot until the deadline and we make a decision then. I think we could spread Athanasiou and Brown onto different lines do to make all the lines marginally worse to make the third line significantly better.

Iaffalo - Kopitar - Athanasiou
Moore - Danault - Arvidsson
Kempe - Byfield - Kaliyev
Lemieux - Lizotte - Brown

Anderson - Doughty
Chychrun - Roy
Soucy - Durzi

I like where you put Brown thats where he belongs. The optics of Kempe on the 3rd line will never fly (as our best player) .. but if you treat 2nd and 3rd like 2a and 2b in terms of playing time.. that would work for me. I like giving Kaliyev a differnt look now. He's done his time in the rock quary.

 

[Herby]

Wow thats crazy, I wonder if there’s a common theme there that shows up in data repeatedly. I guess it’s probably just all the kids’ fault.

That is not what he said, come on.

I think he is trying to say that the Kings are very good when it comes to having guys who would be solid middle type forwards on any team in the league, even on contenders. So good that they have filled in admirably in even higher roles such as with Moore and Danault. Lizotte as someone else said would be a good 4th line center on any team in the league. But the Kings have some holes on their roster that were probably expected to have been filled by any of the very high picks they have made in the last 4-5 years, but as of now that hasn't been the case. The Kings don't have to even have a defined 2nd and 3rd line, most teams now have a top 9 anyways with guys who are expected to contribute offensively. In an ideal world Moore and Danault are elite "3rd liners" and one of the other center spots is filled by guys they invested heavily in, but he is right, none of those players have as of now look to be ready to handle that role. QB is 19 and was stupidly given very few games last season so it's a lot to ask of him, I get that. The other 3, you would have expected them to be able to have done that by now. Sorry to say the what-if again but if you replace Vilardi with Suzuki or Norris or Turcotte with Zegras or Cozens it is a different story as to the Kings having a complete top 9 forwards.

This is where the poor evaluation and/or development with those picks really hurts right now, because the Kings have a ton of really good character, energy and grit in their forwards they just lack NHL skill. Just replace one of Vilardi/Turcotte with Norris/Zegras and tell me the Kings aren't a hell of a lot better team. I think they are probably in 1st place in the division and very clearly eyeing a playoff spot.

 

[funky]

Holy crap. We are now concerned about a 19 year old rookie that has played a dozen games this year after being out with a brutal injury and Covid. Let the guy get a little bit of time before writing him off.

trade deadline is still 2 months away. I think we can let this ride for a bit more time and see how Q responds

 

[Trash Panda]

Wow thats crazy, I wonder if there’s a common theme there that shows up in data repeatedly. I guess it’s probably just all the kids’ fault.

I almost wonder if playing those particular prospects at center with someone other than our two worst possession wings would result in a more pronounced level of success.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Wow thats crazy, I wonder if there’s a common theme there that shows up in data repeatedly. I guess it’s probably just all the kids’ fault.

Brown was so brutal today. One shift was a combination of: embarrassing, sad, comedic, putrid, inept ability, failure to execute and appearance of lost. I've never seen all of that in 1 shift in 40+ years of watching NHL hockey. I will go back and find the shift. There were at least 5 failures in 1 single shift. If any of the young players had a shift like that, they would bypass the taxi squad and be sent to Ontario...regardless if waivers factored in. And yet, he's been recently elevated back to PP1. It's unbelievable. QB will not have any sustained success, if 23 is playing on his line and if the Kings miss the playoffs, 23 will be one of the biggest reasons. 1 PP point in 43 games. Anyone that has not been following the Kings and was told 'Dustin Brown has 1 power play point in this entire season. He's played 43 games. Their response, "wow, he no longer plays any power play minutes?" Why no, he's been on the #1 unit for most of the year...and about half the time on unit 2"
If this is Sturm's doing, he needs to be fired. If it's Todd's doing, he needs to be called into the office.

 

[Herby]

Holy crap. We are now concerned about a 19 year old rookie that has played a dozen games this year after being out with a brutal injury and Covid. Let the guy get a little bit of time before writing him off.

trade deadline is still 2 months away. I think we can let this ride for a bit more time and see how Q responds

Come on, why do people insist on doing this so much here? I had to deal with the same stuff when I shared an opinion on this board two years ago about Turcotte that questioned his ceiling after seeing him play live, immediately the narrative was that I called him a "bust" because people have to live in a world of extremes where everything is one thing or the other, we don't have to deal in such extremes, we should be better than that than. And we shouldn't accuse people of saying things they never said.

@johnjm22 did not insinuate at all that he was "writing off" Byfield long-term , he gave a factual observation that none of the young players we used 1st round picks on have, as of now been able to fill a hole that clearly exists on the roster, how can anyone dispute that? The Kings have an average 1st line, an ok 2nd line and an amazing 4th line, the issue has been finding scoring on what would be considered the other top 9 line. Kupari, Turcotte, Vilardi and QB have all been tried on said line and have not been able to produce offensively in that role, he isn't saying anything that isn't factual. Kupari has 9 points in 37 games, Turcotte had 0 points in 8 games, QB has 1 point in 6 games and Vilardi had 1 point in 7 games. Stating those facts does not mean he is writing off Byfield just as saying Turcotte projected more as a 2nd/3rd line tweener two years ago was not calling him a bust.

 

[Schmooley]

Come on, why do people insist on doing this so much here? I had to deal with the same stuff when I shared an opinion on this board two years ago about Turcotte that questioned his ceiling after seeing him play live, immediately the narrative was that I called him a "bust" because people have to live in a world of extremes where everything is one thing or the other, we don't have to deal in such extremes, we should be better than that than. And we shouldn't accuse people of saying things they never said.

@johnjm22 did not insinuate at all that he was "writing off" Byfield long-term , he gave a factual observation that none of the young players we used 1st round picks on have, as of now been able to fill a hole that clearly exists on the roster, how can anyone dispute that? The Kings have an average 1st line, an ok 2nd line and an amazing 4th line, the issue has been finding scoring on what would be considered the other top 9 line. Kupari, Turcotte, Vilardi and QB have all been tried on said line and have not been able to produce offensively in that role, he isn't saying anything that isn't factual. Kupari has 9 points in 37 games, Turcotte had 0 points in 8 games, QB has 1 point in 6 games and Vilardi had 1 point in 7 games. Stating those facts does not mean he is writing off Byfield just as saying Turcotte projected more as a 2nd/3rd line tweener two years ago was not calling him a bust.

Moore had 1 goal in like 30 games on the third line

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Come on, why do people insist on doing this so much here? I had to deal with the same stuff when I shared an opinion on this board two years ago about Turcotte that questioned his ceiling after seeing him play live, immediately the narrative was that I called him a "bust" because people have to live in a world of extremes where everything is one thing or the other, we don't have to deal in such extremes, we should be better than that than. And we shouldn't accuse people of saying things they never said.

@johnjm22 did not insinuate at all that he was "writing off" Byfield long-term , he gave a factual observation that none of the young players we used 1st round picks on have, as of now been able to fill a hole that clearly exists on the roster, how can anyone dispute that? The Kings have an average 1st line, an ok 2nd line and an amazing 4th line, the issue has been finding scoring on what would be considered the other top 9 line. Kupari, Turcotte, Vilardi and QB have all been tried on said line and have not been able to produce offensively in that role, he isn't saying anything that isn't factual. Kupari has 9 points in 37 games, Turcotte had 0 points in 8 games, QB has 1 point in 6 games and Vilardi had 1 point in 7 games. Stating those facts does not mean he is writing off Byfield just as saying Turcotte projected more as a 2nd/3rd line tweener two years ago was not calling him a bust.

I think they have to roll with QB and let him grow into the NHL game, it's WAY too early in his career to say anything, if Lizotte wasn't playing lights out hockey, I would go as far as putting Turcotte there as well....

I think that if the Kings make the playoffs, it's a bonus.....it's clear that's their goal, but they have to...and they are....getting the kids playing, at this point, Byfield vs Turcotte as 3rd line C is a GREAT problem to have.......

Everything else to me, is just finding something to bitch about.......using that as a general on the forum, not Herby's post.

 

[Herby]

I think they have to roll with QB and let him grow into the NHL game, it's WAY too early in his career to say anything, if Lizotte wasn't playing lights out hockey, I would go as far as putting Turcotte there as well....

I think that if the Kings make the playoffs, it's a bonus.....it's clear that's their goal, but they have to...and they are....getting the kids playing, at this point, Byfield vs Turcotte as 3rd line C is a GREAT problem to have.......

Everything else to me, is just finding something to bitch about.......using that as a general on the forum, not Herby's post.

Who is bitching about him? If someone calls him a bust or writes him off I'll be the first one to say that is wrong, but no one has, no one has come even close. He has had two pretty awful games here after a couple of pretty good ones, saying so is not "bitching" I think people get to emotionally attached to young players, especially ones taken with high picks and take even the smallest of criticism as an almost personal attack. The same thing happens with college football fanbases with 5 star recruits, everyone wants so badly for them to succeed right away they ignore what is right in front of them when they don't or when they are outplayed by less heralded recruits. Why else would people have advocated something like putting Turcotte on Kopitar's wing, nothing he has done since being drafted would warrant that, but people want so badly for the 5-star recruit to be in the starting lineup, would those opinions have been a reality if he were a 3rd round pick instead of a Top 5? I don't think so, but maybe I am wrong. I also think that is why so many are more easily critical of Kupari who was more like a 4 star recruit, even though he has produced at a higher clip than any of the 5 stars as of now the attitude towards him has been IMO much more harsh in the threads here.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Who is bitching about him? If someone calls him a bust I'll be the first one to say that is wrong. He has had two pretty awful games here after a couple of pretty good ones, saying so is not "bitching" I think people get to emotionally attached to young players, especially ones taken with high picks and take even the smallest of criticism as an almost personal attack, the same thing happens on college football boards with 5 star recruits, everyone wants so badly for them to succeed right away they ignore what is right in front of them when they don't. Why else would people have advocated something like putting Turcotte on Kopitar's wing, nothing he has done since being drafted would warrant that, but people want so badly for the 5-star recruit to be in the starting lineup, would those opinions have been a reality if he were a 3rd round pick instead of a Top 5? I don't think so, but maybe I am wrong. I also think that is why so many are more easily critical of Kupari who was more like a 4 star recruit, even though he has produced at a higher clip than any of the 5 stars as of now the attitude towards him has been IMO much more harsh in the threads here.

I was being general bud, I thought I had made that clear......

And if you don't think this board SEEKS out things to bitch about, I dunno what to tell you

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

That is not what he said, come on.

I think he is trying to say that the Kings are very good when it comes to having guys who would be solid middle type forwards on any team in the league, even on contenders. So good that they have filled in admirably in even higher roles such as with Moore and Danault. Lizotte as someone else said would be a good 4th line center on any team in the league. But the Kings have some holes on their roster that were probably expected to have been filled by any of the very high picks they have made in the last 4-5 years, but as of now that hasn't been the case. The Kings don't have to even have a defined 2nd and 3rd line, most teams now have a top 9 anyways with guys who are expected to contribute offensively. In an ideal world Moore and Danault are elite "3rd liners" and one of the other center spots is filled by guys they invested heavily in, but he is right, none of those players have as of now look to be ready to handle that role. QB is 19 and was stupidly given very few games last season so it's a lot to ask of him, I get that. The other 3, you would have expected them to be able to have done that by now. Sorry to say the what-if again but if you replace Vilardi with Suzuki or Norris or Turcotte with Zegras or Cozens it is a different story as to the Kings having a complete top 9 forwards.

This is where the poor evaluation and/or development with those picks really hurts right now, because the Kings have a ton of really good character, energy and grit in their forwards they just lack NHL skill. Just replace one of Vilardi/Turcotte with Norris/Zegras and tell me the Kings aren't a hell of a lot better team. I think they are probably in 1st place in the division and very clearly eyeing a playoff spot.

Not even Philip Danault could save AA from his shortcomings. No one on the roster has saved Brown from his shortcomings more than Byfield and Turcotte.

Saying “wow I wish one of these rookies could take the 3C spot” is expecting them to do something not even Selke-level vets were able to do. Place the shortcomings in performance where they belong and give a kid a chance to succeed before writing off 4 consecutive rookies and pardoning the vets.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Moore had 1 goal in like 30 games on the third line

Wild! Putting him in a better position for his abilities resulted in better outcomes?

What kind of coaching sorcery does that take? Are you sure it wasn’t just his fault?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Byfield makes a bad pass

“Kids not ready, maybe he needs more AHL time”

Brown makes 5 consecutive bad passes, falls down, literally cause of a goal against

f***in Bustfield

 

[King'sPawn]

Come on, why do people insist on doing this so much here? I had to deal with the same stuff when I shared an opinion on this board two years ago about Turcotte that questioned his ceiling after seeing him play live, immediately the narrative was that I called him a "bust" because people have to live in a world of extremes where everything is one thing or the other, we don't have to deal in such extremes, we should be better than that than. And we shouldn't accuse people of saying things they never said.

@johnjm22 did not insinuate at all that he was "writing off" Byfield long-term , he gave a factual observation that none of the young players we used 1st round picks on have, as of now been able to fill a hole that clearly exists on the roster, how can anyone dispute that? The Kings have an average 1st line, an ok 2nd line and an amazing 4th line, the issue has been finding scoring on what would be considered the other top 9 line. Kupari, Turcotte, Vilardi and QB have all been tried on said line and have not been able to produce offensively in that role, he isn't saying anything that isn't factual. Kupari has 9 points in 37 games, Turcotte had 0 points in 8 games, QB has 1 point in 6 games and Vilardi had 1 point in 7 games. Stating those facts does not mean he is writing off Byfield just as saying Turcotte projected more as a 2nd/3rd line tweener two years ago was not calling him a bust.

The observations are fine - it's this assertion that player X lacks Y based on a very small sample size and said player is a rookie.

Yes, Byfield's "pace" seems off at times, because timing is different at the NHL level.

The issue with Johnjm's post is saying these two rookies aren't securing spots on the third line. There are many issues with this statement:
- rookies don't typically secure a particular position, especially at the age of 19 or 20. That's why, if they have a particular skillset, you try to see if they fit in that role first. If they don't, you scale back the responsibility
- rookies should have dependable players to play with them. I was advocating a player like Moore on Byfield's (or Vilardi's) wing back in preseason, because he's a great plug-and-play guy. Brown is especially limited and situational, and I don't think he provides the skillset Byfield (or other rookies) needs to make the transition easier
- my biggest gripe about the development plan is putting top-six prospects in bottom-six roles. These young players are already adjusting to the pace of the NHL level, now you want to change their responsibility and mentally double their workload?

So, no, a rookie hasn't "secured" a spot yet. That's just not helpful commentary and is devoid of all context.

TMac is focused on trying to make the playoffs, so he's unwilling to distribute the wealth to balance out the lineup and improve the growth potential of some of the rookies this season. That, to me, is the biggest obstacle the rookies have faced.

 

[Herby]

Byfield makes a bad pass

“Kids not ready, maybe he needs more AHL time”

Brown makes 5 consecutive bad passes, falls down, literally cause of a goal against

f***in Bustfield

Is it possible that they both played horrible the last 2 games? No one is excusing Brown, but you are scapegoating Brown just as much as you are accusing people of scapegoating Byfield.

 

[Herby]

The observations are fine - it's this assertion that player X lacks Y based on a very small sample size and said player is a rookie.

Yes, Byfield's "pace" seems off at times, because timing is different at the NHL level.

The issue with Johnjm's post is saying these two rookies aren't securing spots on the third line. There are many issues with this statement:
- rookies don't typically secure a particular position, especially at the age of 19 or 20. That's why, if they have a particular skillset, you try to see if they fit in that role first. If they don't, you scale back the responsibility
- rookies should have dependable players to play with them. I was advocating a player like Moore on Byfield's (or Vilardi's) wing back in preseason, because he's a great plug-and-play guy. Brown is especially limited and situational, and I don't think he provides the skillset Byfield (or other rookies) needs to make the transition easier
- my biggest gripe about the development plan is putting top-six prospects in bottom-six roles. These young players are already adjusting to the pace of the NHL level, now you want to change their responsibility and mentally double their workload?

So, no, a rookie hasn't "secured" a spot yet. That's just not helpful commentary and is devoid of all context.

TMac is focused on trying to make the playoffs, so he's unwilling to distribute the wealth to balance out the lineup and improve the growth potential of some of the rookies this season. That, to me, is the biggest obstacle the rookies have faced.

Well my objection to what was said was the insinuation that he was "writing off" QB, I thought it was very unfair as he didn't say anything of the sort, he simply stated facts. You can add context if you want, such as you have done, but either way it was an insane reach to accuse him (or anyone) of writing off QB. Now I usually enjoy the funky's posts and I wasn't trying to single him out, just kind of the straw that broke the camels back with unnecessary posts like that. As I said, it was stuff I had to deal with here on this board for my Turcotte observations. I am always willing to defend what I say and what I see, whether it is hyping a Kings prospect like Faber as a potential #2-3 d-man from round 2 or downplaying a Kings prospect, a 2-3 tweener with a top 5 pick. But I don't think people should have to defend comments that they never made, criticize or disagree with what he said or what I said all you want, but don't accuse people of saying stuff they very clearly didn't say, this board loses credibility and will lose good members with stuff like that. Anyways...back to the added context stuff.

The Kings don't really have a traditional 1-2-3 lines, some of that has to do with having two elite defensive centers as the current top 2 centers and part of that has to do with the relative dominance of the 4th line. Most teams don't have a Kopitar and Danault and most teams don't have a BL, it changes the role and expectation. The Kings third line is not going to be asked to do what the 3rd line did when Stoll was centering it, and it's going to be that way for atleast the next two seasons after this one.

In an ideal world Moore is in that "3rd line" role, that is correct. But the Kings wing situation is bad (shocking I know) and he has to play up on the "2nd line" out of need. Had things gone differently in analysis of young players maybe things are different, but this is where we are I even said in the GDT yesterday I'd love to see the Kings pick up a goal-scoring winger to as you suggested, let Moore go down to the 3rd line. But Moore is also a depth NHL forward, to think he is going to turn what were offensive black holes (Kupari, Turcotte, Vilardi) into competent scorers might be a stretch, Turcotte isn't even really scoring in the minors either. Those guys have to play better on their own as well. We are also on a hot wave here with Moore, we need to be careful to not get to excited, he is an excellent depth player and valuable asset but lets not judge him on only the last dozen games or think he is more than what he is.

Agreed on the TMac part, but that is what we signed up for with the moves this summer. But even as is, the Kings can't have that line be an offensive black hole if they want to make a move in the 2nd half, especially not with AA on it. I am far from an AA fan, but he has been a relatively consistent .5 per-game guy most of his career, and Brown is on pace for about the same this season. it's not as if this is 2015 Mike Richards and Nick Shore on the line with him. QB has to (and I believe he will) produce at about a 35-40 point (over 82) clip the rest of the way, that should be a realistic expectation.

Who goes in a Top 6 role though? I mean they could put Byfield up there and slide Danault down, but that has been a strong line for the Kings recently. With how the team is playing and the roster is constructed, QB probably switches with PD next season. Vilardi was basically given an entire season in a Top 6 role last year with mixed results. I think the Kings probably think it's over with Gabe, maybe they give him one more look but I think his skating just makes it tough, but he was certainly given a chance to be on a scoring line by Tmac and Blake. Turcotte has done nothing since being drafted to warrant playing in a scoring line role in the NHL. I suspect more than ever now that the Kings probably saw the same things at UW that I did and are grooming him for an Andrew Cogliano type of role in the NHL as a tweener that can play multiple positions all over the lineup in a pinch as needed. That would explain the time learning the wing and why they pulled him out of college early before letting an offensive game develop. And I am ok with that, he will never return the draft capital used to take him but it's a better way to deploy him than to force the square peg and make him into a scorer, it's just not there. He can play that role probably as early as next season. Kupari I just don't think is skilled enough to be a scorer, period. His upside is likely playing on a modern day "3rd line" with a guy like Turcotte and Thomas, he's not ready for it yet, but he probably will be next season. They did give Fagemo atleast a game (maybe 2?) on I believe the 1st line when Kempe had Covid, they probably view him as having that type of role if he makes it but he needs a bit more time, but they did atleast give him a look in that role.