Injury Report: 2021/22 Injury Thread Part II of ∞

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Mackinnonen

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Sep 6, 2015
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It's so sad the Olympics will probably be played without nhl players even though it's the right thing to do. As a finn I was excited all year thinking about our forward core and also Makar dominating with possibly Toews and Mack, Crosby, Mcjesus etc.. :(
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,584
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Oh I can read my friend.

As of September 4th, Dr. Fauci stated "Three doses of the COVID-19 vaccine will offer you full protection against the coronavirus right now". Pfizer states that "Based on evidence from clinical trials in people 16 years and older, the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine was 95% effective at preventing laboratory-confirmed infection with the virus that causes COVID-19 in people who received two doses and had no evidence of being previously infected." According to Pfizer and BioNTech's website, "The vaccine was 100% effective against severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)."

Not only that, it was said that based on a clinical trial among adolescents ages 12-15 "A two-dose series was 100% effective against COVID-19, which was measured between 7 days and 4 months after the second dose".

This efficacy was supposed to last for 6 months against potential variants, not reduce by 1/3rd in 3 months. Again, they didn't qualify these statements, these are the "facts", which are now falsified by changing circumstances. You and I, like many others, were inclined to believe them. I'm open to further vaccination, but there needs to be more transparency with respect to a reduction in efficacy.

Like I said, imperfect language. Biden has been guilty of it too. I don't think there's anything nefarious about it, I just think Fauci especially has been tasked with talking about this publicly A LOT, and similar to a radio show host or podcaster, if you're tasked with talking long enough into microphones, you're eventually going to say something stupid, or in this case inaccurate.

What I believe they're trying to say with that is they believe you will be very (for lack of a better word) protected against severe disease, hospitalizations, and death with the vaccines. The data has borne this out.

I haven't looked into the studies you quoted, but I wouldn't be surprised if that one did show the vaccine to be 100% effective against severe disease, because as I posted earlier, the people who have gotten sick enough to be hospitalized are either all or nearly all unvaccinated. Many hospitals around the country regularly report that their COVID patients are 99-100% unvaccinated.

Same with the adolescent study, though again I haven't looked into these in detail. The vaccines offer good protection from this. Even with Delta, and its early, but sings point to that possibly being the case with Omicron as well.

I can understand the confusion, and like I said, some people have used imperfect language at times (I'm sure I have as well), but I think a lot of that can just be chalked up to minor human errors in speaking.

It's unfortunate, because it just gives people who were hesitant to trust the science ammunition to say, "see they were wrong" or "see they didn't tell the truth." When really it's just people solely trying to help people stay safe and healthy (at their own political expense) during a pretty unprecedented time in this current era of civilization, and because of that nobody is batting 1.000.
 

TheRarestDangles

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Oct 1, 2019
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To a certain degree I don't see what you are complaining about since the statement specifically said "right now" and that was back in September. Promising the vaccine would for sure fully protect against new variants with new mutations would have been absurd and clearly unreasonable. There was a massive amount of reporting that there was a risk that the virus might further mutate and make current vaccines less effective or ineffective. (To some degree the news is good and Omicron did not negate the current vaccines to the extent some were concerned it might once they saw how extensive the mutations are.)

Obviously some hoped COVID would mutate more slowly than it has, but that is the kind of thing hard to predict with a new virus. It should be emphasized that 100% against severe disease some does not mean 100% against getting sick at all. Now you could say the statements simplified things slightly, but part of this is about realistically understanding what vaccines ordinarily can and can not do. (Any fairly short statement on a topic like vaccine effectiveness and how they work under all circumstances is going to realistically end up simplifying things a bit, and getting into all the details in practice gets tough when talking about a communication intended for the general public and avoiding confusing people.)
I have gas.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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I wouldn't be surprised if Nate tests positive. He celebrated a fair amount of goals with Toews, Burky, and Makar recently and he played a very poor game in the last outing. Looked worse than usual this year.
 

the_fan

Have we traded Mikko yet?
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Jul 25, 2006
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I wouldn't be surprised if Nate tests positive. He celebrated a fair amount of goals with Toews, Burky, and Makar recently and he played a very poor game in the last outing. Looked worse than usual this year.
MacKinnon already had covid in the beginning of the season. I think he's immune to it for like 6 months
 

Andrew Wiggin

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Feb 8, 2020
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NFL just did the most logical thing for these issues, stop mandatory testing for asymptomatic, vaccinated players. It was all just for show not particularly for safety anyway so might as well scrap it for NHL. Though I would assume it is more complicated than the NFL with the Canadian teams.
 

AvsFan29

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Mar 15, 2018
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NFL just did the most logical thing for these issues, stop mandatory testing for asymptomatic, vaccinated players. It was all just for show not particularly for safety anyway so might as well scrap it for NHL. Though I would assume it is more complicated than the NFL with the Canadian teams.
I don't have any bills, because I dont open my mail!

Not testing players is a stupid brain dead idea.
 

Andrew Wiggin

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Feb 8, 2020
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I don't have any bills, because I dont open my mail!

Not testing players is a stupid brain dead idea.

If no one is collecting those bills than will it matter? My point was if players are willing to take the risk (which of death or serious illness is low) then who cares who has an asymptomatic case. If the recent breakthrough cases are any indication of wider infection almost everyone will get it eventually.
 

Foppa2118

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Oct 3, 2003
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MacKinnon already had covid in the beginning of the season. I think he's immune to it for like 6 months

That's not how it works unfortunately. Especially with Omicron. Even with Delta and past variants, there were still cases of reinfection months or even weeks after the initial infection in some cases.

Early studies out of the UK suggest that past infection may only offer as low as 19% protection from reinfection to Omicron.

"Omicron largely evades immunity from past coronavirus infection or two vaccine doses, and boosters are key to mitigating the impact of the variant, new research suggests.

The risk of reinfection with Omicron is 5.4 times greater than that of the Delta variant, according to researchers at Imperial College London

This suggests the protection against reinfection by Omicron from past infection may be as low as 19%.

Omicron ‘largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses’
 

AvsFan29

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Mar 15, 2018
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If no one is collecting those bills than will it matter? My point was if players are willing to take the risk (which of death or serious illness is low) then who cares who has an asymptomatic case. If the recent breakthrough cases are any indication of wider infection almost everyone will get it eventually.
Because they still spread the virus. This isn't a complicated issue.
 

Jazzguitar

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Feb 25, 2012
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Denver
That's not how it works unfortunately. Especially with Omicron. Even with Delta and past variants, there were still cases of reinfection months or even weeks after the initial infection in some cases.

Early studies out of the UK suggest that past infection may only offer as low as 19% protection from reinfection to Omicron.

"Omicron largely evades immunity from past coronavirus infection or two vaccine doses, and boosters are key to mitigating the impact of the variant, new research suggests.

The risk of reinfection with Omicron is 5.4 times greater than that of the Delta variant, according to researchers at Imperial College London

This suggests the protection against reinfection by Omicron from past infection may be as low as 19%.

Omicron ‘largely evades immunity from past infection or two vaccine doses’
What about past infection AND two vaccine doses though? Everything I've heard is you gain super immunity at that point which is highly effective towards all strains. 20 year old OG covid and perhaps future variants as well. I'm not sure if that has changed with Omnicron though.
 

Andrew Wiggin

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Feb 8, 2020
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Because they still spread the virus. This isn't a complicated issue.

Yeah that is not lost on me if you read my post that would be clear. It is not lost on the NFL either but they are still going down the road of not testing. I know the majority of these boards are lock step with more than a few narratives that I consider flawed so I won't go too deep into my general disagreement with how you think about the virus and societal risk tolerance. I was just sharing the NFL approach and seeing if anyone thought that would be what they eventually do in the NHL. You disagree, I get it, but just saying it's a stupid brain dead idea and pointing out something obvious like people are spreading a virus doesn't add much.
 

AvsFan29

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Mar 15, 2018
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Yeah that is not lost on me if you read my post that would be clear. It is not lost on the NFL either but they are still going down the road of not testing. I know the majority of these boards are lock step with more than a few narratives that I consider flawed so I won't go too deep into my general disagreement with how you think about the virus and societal risk tolerance. I was just sharing the NFL approach and seeing if anyone thought that would be what they eventually do in the NHL. You disagree, I get it, but just saying it's a stupid brain dead idea and pointing out something obvious like people are spreading a virus doesn't add much.
Not testing doesn't solve anything. It might bring down the amount of players who are positive for covid, but it's not a productive move. These players have families, and parents. They deserve to know if they are carrying a deadly disease.
 
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Alienblood

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Nov 22, 2021
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Can't really argue with anyone regarding their opinions on covid, since no one really knows what exactly covid is or what it does. Why is it continue being a pandemic when people are vaccinated, why do majority of people testing positive for covid have no symptoms and don't feel sick?
If 3 shots of the current vaccine offers full protection, is it just that matter of everyone just get vaccinated and the pandemic is over where people will still test positive for covid but you can ignore it, or it will still be considered a pandemic since the virus still spreads around even vaccinated but people don't get sick? If it's the case where everyone is vaccinated, don't get sick but still catch and spread covid, can they just go on as normal and don't even test anymore?

This are the questions still very much need to be answered and no one really knows yet
they should.
 

Alienblood

Registered User
Nov 22, 2021
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It's so sad the Olympics will probably be played without nhl players even though it's the right thing to do. As a finn I was excited all year thinking about our forward core and also Makar dominating with possibly Toews and Mack, Crosby, Mcjesus etc.. :(
no it's amateur sport, keep it that way
 

Andrew Wiggin

Registered User
Feb 8, 2020
468
296
Not testing doesn't solve anything. It might bring down the amount of players who are positive for covid, but it's not a productive move. These players have families, and parents. They deserve to know if they are carrying a deadly disease.

Regular people who go to jobs everyday don't get tested everyday do the deserve to know any less if they are carrying a deadly disease? What I am saying is if the players know what they are getting into the strict protocols are more theatrics than actual safety measures.
 

Alienblood

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Nov 22, 2021
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Regular people who go to jobs everyday don't get tested everyday do the deserve to know any less if they are carrying a deadly disease? What I am saying is if the players know what they are getting into the strict protocols are more theatrics than actual safety measures.
it's a virus not a disease
 
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Andrew Wiggin

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Feb 8, 2020
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it's a virus not a disease

I was more responding to the poster in how they framed it, I wasn't trying to make an statement about proper terminology but I would say either word would apply. Here is the definition on Merriam Webster: an illness that affects a person, animal, or plant : a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally and a virus is essentially an infectious disease.

I don't know why people bother responding with something like that, seems pointless. Do you have an actual thought about the dialogue?
 
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AvsFan29

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Mar 15, 2018
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I was more responding to the poster in how they framed it, I wasn't trying to make an statement about proper terminology but I would say either word would apply. Here is the definition on Merriam Webster: an illness that affects a person, animal, or plant : a condition that prevents the body or mind from working normally and a virus is essentially an infectious disease.

I don't know why people bother responding with something like that, seems pointless. Do you have an actual thought about the dialogue?
Not testing players just so we can have hockey games is dumb. It's as simple as that
 
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