Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster discussion

[Rusty Batch]

My optimistic opinion with our current prospect pool is that their stats have been nerfed by the ridiculous boring and passive system that we play in both the AHL and NHL. And that the reason many of our best prospects have been slow to make the NHL is really just a reflection of management tanking and purposely extending the ELC contracts of our prospect pool by not allowing them to compete for NHL roster spots, which I believe they would easily have already won if given a fair opportunity.

We will learn alot next year and I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a guy like Turcotte thrive in a first line role given his pedigree, he also might end up a skilled/energy third liner. Jury is still out.

 

[BigKing]

This is why Byfield is practically untouchable. You can get a HOF player at 5OA, 11OA or lower if you are lucky. When it doesn't look like you have anything like that in your prospect pool and you get to draft 2OA, you better not miss.

Don't really know if it wasn't Doughty the entire time but imagine if that pick was Bogosian, Schenn or even Pieterangelo. None of the Cups happen.

 

[Sol]

This is why Byfield is practically untouchable. You can get a HOF player at 5OA, 11OA or lower if you are lucky. When it doesn't look like you have anything like that in your prospect pool and you get to draft 2OA, you better not miss.

Don't really know if it wasn't Doughty the entire time but imagine if that pick was Bogosian, Schenn or even Pieterangelo. None of the Cups happen.

I really hope Byfield ends up being as good as most people make him out to be

That said, Kings might have one cup with Pietrangelo.

We had a prime Kopitar and Quick. They had Brian Elliot lol.

 

[Herby]

I don't really think it's fair to pretend that Turcotte was this high floor low ceiling type prospect when he was drafted though. On a ppg basis he outproduce everyone from the US program in the season leading up to his draft with the exception of Hughes (and he even had more ppg in the USHL then Hughes but not in the USDP).

I remember pre-draft a bunch of my nerdy analytics friends who had him pegged as the 3rd ranked prospect in terms of offensive upside behind only Hughes and Kakko. That was all based on stats though. I think Zegras and Caufield were more of the eye test guys with bigger offensive upside. But there was certainly a very strong statistical argument to be made that it was Turcotte that had the highest offensive ceiling outside of the top two prospects in that draft.

That is a fair statement. Turcotte scored a lot for the NTDP but I think when you read scouting reports his biggest strengths were the character that went with the skill, as opposed to just the straight up skill which I think people projected to be less than those two long term. I remember there were a few here such as Ziggy who were all over Zegras despite him having much less production at that level, there certainly had to be a reason.

But still, in the present there just seems to be very little chance that ends up being a foundation building player like Kopitar, Quick and Doughty or any of those other players listed. And that is not the end of the world if he is the Kings 2C. But if the Kings bring everyone back next season and pick say 11th next year where do we find one or two more of those foundation players to pair with QB? That is why it would have been so much more ideal to just flat out suck for 4-5 seasons and get a bunch of those picks rather than really sucking for only a couple of years. Look at that Top 25 scoring list, and look at how many were Top 3 picks, it's the easiest most reliable way to add Hall of Fame caliber players.

If the Kings tell Drew they aren't adding this summer and if he would agree to a move the Kings could do that. The Kings would all but guarantee picking in the Top 1-4 the next few years if they added nothing and traded Doughty for picks and/or prospects.

 

[Herby]

I really hope Byfield ends up being as good as most people make him out to be

That said, Kings might have one cup with Pietrangelo.

We had a prime Kopitar and Quick. They had Brian Elliot lol.

Maybe in 2012 with Quick playing like late 90's Hasek they could have won with Petro. But the bigger issue there is if you replace Doughty with Petro you probably don't even make the playoffs.

Zero chance the Kings win the Cup with Petro instead of Doughty in 2014. His 2014 playoffs was off the charts good, maybe maybe if the Kings replaced him with what at the time was a prime Karlsson they **might** have been able to do it, but that is the only d-man who could have matched what Drew did in 2014. But the Kings also weren't going to be taking Karlsson at #2 in the draft, no one knew how good he would be.

As far as Byfield, there is reason to be optimistic. The majority of players taken #2 overall in the draft end up being stars. And despite debuting for a team made up of a bunch of guys playing out the stretch he looked. very good at the NHL level. Trust historical evidence here, just like guys who play 2 years of college do better than guys who play 1, guys who are taken #2 and produce in the OHL like QB did are more often that not stars.

 

[SFKingshomer]

My optimistic opinion with our current prospect pool is that their stats have been nerfed by the ridiculous boring and passive system that we play in both the AHL and NHL. And that the reason many of our best prospects have been slow to make the NHL is really just a reflection of management tanking and purposely extending the ELC contracts of our prospect pool by not allowing them to compete for NHL roster spots, which I believe they would easily have already won if given a fair opportunity.

We will learn alot next year and I wouldn't at all be surprised to see a guy like Turcotte thrive in a first line role given his pedigree, he also might end up a skilled/energy third liner. Jury is still out.

I take all of their numbers with a grain of salt. Everyone talks about how poor the defense in Ontario was. A huge piece of forwards producing is having defenseman who can make a good breakout pass. Ontario was a mess.

 

[bland]

NHL Leading Scorers and when they became NHL players

McDavid - D+1
Draisaitl - D+2
Marchand - D+4
Marner - D+2
Rantanen - D+2
Kane - D+1
Matthews - D+1
MacKinon - D+1
Scheifele - D+3
Crosby - D+1
Stone - D+4
Huberdeau - D+1
Perron - D+1
Panarin - Overager
Barkov - D+1
Aho - D+2
Guentzel - D+4
DeBrincat - D+2
ROR - D+1
Backstrom - D+2
Landeskog - D+1
Pavelski - D+4
Pacioretty - D+2
Kaprizov - D+6
Kopitar - D+1

The great ones arrive quicker than I think you realize.

This is a fallacy though - there is a lot more to hockey than scoring, and every argument you have made regarding this issue is based purely on offensive numbers.

No, you don't need to draft a top scorer at the #5 slot. There are innumerable ways to positively affect your team than outscoring the guy next to you. Most of the players you have been defending as part of the argument - Marner, Gaudreau and Caufield - put up a lot of points but have next to no affect on their teams winning. They are nice, fun to watch but spare parts that winning teams tend to avoid.

 

[BigKing]

I really hope Byfield ends up being as good as most people make him out to be

That said, Kings might have one cup with Pietrangelo.

We had a prime Kopitar and Quick. They had Brian Elliot lol.

They might have but I just think Doughty was at a different level back then.

As for Byfield, I watched a lot of Reign games and there is a lot of work to be done. That said, I think he is the type of guy that has it all come together pretty quickly if it does and we'll just be like "Holy shit, it's happening". I've said it numerous times but confidence is a huge factor in his game. I think he has all the skill necessary and the size can't be taught.

I'd really like to add Reinhart and have him play RW with Byfield and then have Iafallo on the LW so he can be insulated a bit. I don't want him anywhere near Dustin Brown or Kempe: let Kopitar drag them around for another season. Byfield is the most important prospect so it is imperative that they put him in a position to succeed. I don't remember exactly who was on Kopitar's wing his rookie season but it was some form of Cammalleri/Frolov/Brown I believe. When you look at the wings currently on this team, there isn't anything that inspires a ton of confidence except for Iafallo.

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Caufield. I can find a well rounded 2C in any draft. Drafting intangibles over talent in the top 5 is IMO atleast a poor strategy.

1. Seider (has best chance of anyone from this draft to be a true franchise player)
2. Hughes
3. Zegras
4. Caufield
5. Kaako
6. Dach
7. Cozens
8. Byram
9. Knight
10. Hoglander
11. Boldy
12. Newhook
13. Kaliyev
14. Bjornfot
15. Pinto
16. Turcotte
17. Heinola
18. Krebs
19. Soderstrom
20. York

Honestly, it's a very muddled draft. It's a very very deep but it lacks elite high end talent it's why I would have targeted a higher ceiling guy in this draft. But there isn't a ton of difference between like 7 and 20. Personal preference, how you value positions and whether you are willing to risk a homerun for a strikeout or prefer to be Tony Gwynn.

Edit: I should have Hoglander higher. He was dynamic as a barely 20 year old this season. This re-draft got really tough to do after Dach.

I agree with the idea of drafting skill over intangibles early. My thoughts were pretty clear on that 7 or 8 pages ago. However, I think Turcotte has plenty of skill spread all around. My concerns are his health. That was another reason that I am concerned with drafting hard nosed players early. Risk of hard nosed injuries.

My top 5 is Hughes, Zegras, Bynum, Kaako, Dach.

 

[SmytheKing]

They might have but I just think Doughty was at a different level back then.

As for Byfield, I watched a lot of Reign games and there is a lot of work to be done. That said, I think he is the type of guy that has it all come together pretty quickly if it does and we'll just be like "Holy shit, it's happening". I've said it numerous times but confidence is a huge factor in his game. I think he has all the skill necessary and the size can't be taught.

I'd really like to add Reinhart and have him play RW with Byfield and then have Iafallo on the LW so he can be insulated a bit. I don't want him anywhere near Dustin Brown or Kempe: let Kopitar drag them around for another season. Byfield is the most important prospect so it is imperative that they put him in a position to succeed. I don't remember exactly who was on Kopitar's wing his rookie season but it was some form of Cammalleri/Frolov/Brown I believe. When you look at the wings currently on this team, there isn't anything that inspires a ton of confidence except for Iafallo.

 

[Herby]

This is a fallacy though - there is a lot more to hockey than scoring, and every argument you have made regarding this issue is based purely on offensive numbers.

No, you don't need to draft a top scorer at the #5 slot. There are innumerable ways to positively affect your team than outscoring the guy next to you. Most of the players you have been defending as part of the argument - Marner, Gaudreau and Caufield - put up a lot of points but have next to no affect on their teams winning. They are nice, fun to watch but spare parts that winning teams tend to avoid.

No it's not. The players I am mentioning here are as the building block foundations of championship teams are all Hall of Famers. I did not only include forwards. I included multiple goaltenders and multiple defenseman. The Kings, Pens, Hawks and Lightning all had anything from big stars to Hall of Famers at multiple positions in the lineup, I am focusing on elite scorers with the Kings because (once again) it's the biggest issue. If the Kings had Byfield, Barzal and Zegras and nothing on defense my concerns would be there.

You mean to tell me that Nikita Kucherov, Evgeni Malkin, Stephen Stamkos and Patrick Kane are spare parts that winning teams tend to avoid? Come on, you are better than that.

As far as defending Gaudreau, please go back and read some of the stuff that was said before you attack me or think I was the one being offensive.

"A huge disappointment"
"Not going to last in the league"
"Going to suffer a career ending injury at the hands of someone like Regehr"

Do you not agree that those are completely ridiculous statements that warrant being called out?

You don't need to draft a scorer at a Top 5 in every draft, but if you only end up with 2 Top 5 picks in a rebuild and the vast majority of those Hall of Fame caliber players that have been constants on the best teams of this era are Top 5 picks where do you get those players from? Those guys are just not readily available on the market very often, and even in the case when they are you are also against trading for them. Just curious how yo go about getting another couple to go along with QB?

 

[YP44]

Caufield. I can find a well rounded 2C in any draft. Drafting intangibles over talent in the top 5 is IMO atleast a poor strategy.

1. Seider (has best chance of anyone from this draft to be a true franchise player)
2. Hughes
3. Zegras
4. Caufield
5. Kaako
6. Dach
7. Cozens
8. Byram
9. Knight
10. Hoglander
11. Boldy
12. Newhook
13. Kaliyev
14. Bjornfot
15. Pinto
16. Turcotte
17. Heinola
18. Krebs
19. Soderstrom
20. York

Honestly, it's a very muddled draft. It's a very very deep but it lacks elite high end talent it's why I would have targeted a higher ceiling guy in this draft. But there isn't a ton of difference between like 7 and 20. Personal preference, how you value positions and whether you are willing to risk a homerun for a strikeout or prefer to be Tony Gwynn.

Edit: I should have Hoglander higher. He was dynamic as a barely 20 year old this season. This re-draft got really tough to do after Dach.

I would put Dach 4, move everyone down and put Turoctte after Cozens.

I really like Cozens but not enough to say move him up. Also really like Dach. Guy looked like a stud before being injured.

 

[Herby]

View attachment 446891

Exactly. Kopitar broke into the league with legit 1st line players in the primes of their career that made his transition much easier. Quite a big difference from having 24 year old Frolov and Cammalleri to play with vs who the Kings will likely have for QB.

This is where the age gap and the lack of anything of real substance from the six consecutive drafts is going to start to really effect the Kings, it will be greatly magnified too if Kopitar shows any signs of slowing down.

We should all be very thankful that Iafallo chose to sign with the Kings out of college, he atleast is a 2nd liner in his prime.

 

[Lt Dan]

Don't really know if it wasn't Doughty the entire time but imagine if that pick was Bogosian, Schenn or even Pieterangelo. None of the Cups happen.

According to insiders, it was Doughty the whole time. Even if we had gotten the 1st OA

 

[BigKing]

View attachment 446891

Thanks for that. I know the line with Brown and O'Sullivan was a thing but O'Sullivan only playing 44 games that year and averaging 6 minutes less of ice-time led me to believe that was maybe more of a 2007-08 event v. 2006-07.

I just think that any truth to the rumors of Blake looking to possibly add two Top 6 forwards isn't just related to wanting the team to be better but is in regards to the development of Byfield.

 

[johnjm22]

Marc Crawford was also Kopitar's coach when AK came in to the league.

Crawford was an offensive minded coach, and despite his flaws, I think he was good at developing young offensive players.

Frolov and O'Sullivan had their most productive years under Crawford. Brown had his break out year under him and set a career high in goals. Cammalleri hit 80pts under MC.

Terry Murray held back Simmonds. He couldn't get anything out of Moulson or Purcell.

I just wonder if there's value in having a more offensive minded approach when you're trying to develop offensive players. Scoring in the NHL is really hard, you can learn to play a more responsible game later.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I take all of their numbers with a grain of salt. Everyone talks about how poor the defense in Ontario was. A huge piece of forwards producing is having defenseman who can make a good breakout pass. Ontario was a mess.

I would also point out that their numbers towards the end of the year were a better representation of the latent talent.

 

[SmytheKing]

Thanks for that. I know the line with Brown and O'Sullivan was a thing but O'Sullivan only playing 44 games that year and averaging 6 minutes less of ice-time led me to believe that was maybe more of a 2007-08 event v. 2006-07.

I just think that any truth to the rumors of Blake looking to possibly add two Top 6 forwards isn't just related to wanting the team to be better but is in regards to the development of Byfield.

I took a look at the site and it only went back to 2007-2008 so good eye. I THINK he was mostly with Frolov and Cammy as you said. Also some time with Armstrong and Brown I think. A variation of those four mostly.

But your point is sound is really what it comes down to.

 

[BigKing]

I took a look at the site and it only went back to 2007-2008 so good eye. I THINK he was mostly with Frolov and Cammy as you said. Also some time with Armstrong and Brown I think. A variation of those four mostly.

But your point is sound is really what it comes down to.

That makes sense and would jive with the ice time, although I feel like Brown was almost always with Kopitar from the start so maybe Frolov was with Armstrong?

But yeah, he had better wingers to play with than what the Kings currently have.

 

[SmytheKing]

That makes sense and would jive with the ice time, although I feel like Brown was almost always with Kopitar from the start so maybe Frolov was with Armstrong?

But yeah, he had better wingers to play with than what the Kings currently have.

I think Armstrong was with him the least of those other three. Just when they wanted a vet to play with him or when they had a defensive draw or something along those lines. It's been 15 years so I honestly can't recall though.

 

[BigKing]

I think Armstrong was with him the least of those other three. Just when they wanted a vet to play with him or when they had a defensive draw or something along those lines. It's been 15 years so I honestly can't recall though.

I probably missed one home game that season in person, tops, and I can't remember either. I try to block out the 2007 NHL season as much as possible, for obvious reasons.

 

[Sol]

They might have but I just think Doughty was at a different level back then.

As for Byfield, I watched a lot of Reign games and there is a lot of work to be done. That said, I think he is the type of guy that has it all come together pretty quickly if it does and we'll just be like "Holy shit, it's happening". I've said it numerous times but confidence is a huge factor in his game. I think he has all the skill necessary and the size can't be taught.

I'd really like to add Reinhart and have him play RW with Byfield and then have Iafallo on the LW so he can be insulated a bit. I don't want him anywhere near Dustin Brown or Kempe: let Kopitar drag them around for another season. Byfield is the most important prospect so it is imperative that they put him in a position to succeed. I don't remember exactly who was on Kopitar's wing his rookie season but it was some form of Cammalleri/Frolov/Brown I believe. When you look at the wings currently on this team, there isn't anything that inspires a ton of confidence except for Iafallo.

A really good point. The wingers on this team are absolute booty. My biggest worry about Byfield also stems from the fact that I don't have a ton of confidence in our wingers either. That could be the difference between him getting confidence early vs later in his development.

 

[Docgonzo]

Hyman might work well with QB, he did well with Matthews and Marner. Wonder what it’d take to sign him. But then no idea who you get for QB’s RW.

Best wingers available are more bottom 6 type guys unless you think Coleman might work, he does have scoring potential. Maybe Blake try’s for Palmeri or RNH depending on contracts.

 

[Rusty Batch]

This is a fallacy though - there is a lot more to hockey than scoring, and every argument you have made regarding this issue is based purely on offensive numbers.

No, you don't need to draft a top scorer at the #5 slot. There are innumerable ways to positively affect your team than outscoring the guy next to you. Most of the players you have been defending as part of the argument - Marner, Gaudreau and Caufield - put up a lot of points but have next to no affect on their teams winning. They are nice, fun to watch but spare parts that winning teams tend to avoid.

How can you say those guys have next to no effect on their team winning? It's a team sport, players play different roles, and the guys that provide high level scoring are some of the most difficult roles to fill. They are extremely valuable. Guys like Kopitar and Doughty who do it all at a very high level are unicorns, there are lots of impact players that contribute in different ways.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Hyman might work well with QB, he did well with Matthews and Marner. Wonder what it’d take to sign him. But then no idea who you get for QB’s RW.

Best wingers available are more bottom 6 type guys unless you think Coleman might work, he does have scoring potential. Maybe Blake try’s for Palmeri or RNH depending on contracts.

No thanks, Kings don't need 29 yr old role players with inflated stats from playing on the same line as two elite scorers.