Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster discussion

[Herby]

I still believe good big men beat good little men more often than not, especially in the NHL playoffs.

This is obviously true, but it doesn't mean you ignore players with special skill sets and potential because of their size.

Caufield falling to wherever the hell he fell in 2019 is going to be another example of this. A bunch of teams are going to look so stupid for passing on someone with his skill to take significantly worse players strictly because they were bigger. This will be the NHL's Russell Wilson.

 

[Fishhead]

This is obviously true, but it doesn't mean you ignore players with special skill sets and potential because of their size.

Caufield falling to wherever the hell he fell in 2019 is going to be another example of this. A bunch of teams are going to look so stupid for passing on someone with his skill to take significantly worse players strictly because they were bigger. This will be the NHL's Russell Wilson.

It's really no different than looking stupid for passing up on a player because he came from, say, Slovenia.

I think there was something more with Caufield that was putting teams off, though. I mean Chicago didn't grab him, and they've had great success with small guys like Kane and DeBrincat. I thought for certain they would entertain him at #3. My opinion is that he always kind of looks nervous in the defensive zone, which really scares teams. His transition ability balances that out for me, but he was definitely a riskier pick.

 

[Jason Squirties]

I don't care about size and grit. Show me a modern team that cares more about size and grit and I'll show you a failure. Size gets killed in today's NHL. Grit can't sand opposition when the opposition skates around you. Hitting is failing. It puts you out of position and it risks injury.

Just show me a team that cares. I dont fkn care what size they are.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Honestly the Caufield stuff is getting a little ridiculous/over-the-top.

It's great to be high on his abilities and I'm surprised he fell, but it's more than a little early to act like 14 other teams made a mistake.

 

[Herby]

Honestly the Caufield stuff is getting a little ridiculous/over-the-top.

It's great to be high on his abilities and I'm surprised he fell, but it's more than a little early to act like 14 other teams made a mistake.

How many teams wouldn't want a do-over? Even the consensus Top 2, neither one has looked nearly as good in their two seasons at the NHL level.

He will be a star and feel free to bring it up if he isn't. As good a college player as I have ever seen. And an instant transition to looking like a gamebreaker and making impact plays in the NHL playoffs with 10 games of regular season experience.

The season he had in both the NCAA and NHL in his D+2 isn't by accident. A bunch of teams made a big mistake, and just like with Kopitar (who also fell for a stupid reason) it doesn't take years to realize it. By June 2007 everyone knew Kopitar should have been the #2 pick in the draft.

 

[kovacro]

Honestly the Caufield stuff is getting a little ridiculous/over-the-top.

It's great to be high on his abilities and I'm surprised he fell, but it's more than a little early to act like 14 other teams made a mistake.

Spot on. Almost sounds like is the second coming of Maurice Richard.

The Habs are getting out of the kiddie pool which was the North division and they are now entering the adult pool taking on Vegas. I am very interested to see how the kid fares.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

How many teams wouldn't want a do-over? Even the consensus Top 2, neither one has looked nearly as good in their two seasons at the NHL level.

He will be a star and feel free to bring it up if he isn't. As good a college player as I have ever seen. And an instant transition to looking like a gamebreaker and making impact plays in the NHL playoffs with 10 games of regular season experience.

The season he had in both the NCAA and NHL in his D+2 isn't by accident. A bunch of teams made a big mistake, and just like with Kopitar (who also fell for a stupid reason) it doesn't take years to realize it. By June 2007 everyone knew Kopitar should have been the #2 pick in the draft.

This is just incredibly presumptuous and that's my point.

Caufield is awesome, I think we are all with you there. I'm not going to spend time parsing his performance as that's not the argument I'm having.

Where you lose me is where you proclaim him definitively better than Hughes-Kakko-Dach-Byram-Turcotte-Seider-Cozens-Broberg-Zegras-Pod-Soderstrom-Boldy-Knight-York already and suggesting 14 teams made mistakes when half of those guys haven't even had a chance to prove their draft pedigree.

 

[Bandit]

Spot on. Almost sounds like is the second coming of Maurice Richard.

The Habs are getting out of the kiddie pool which was the North division and they are now entering the adult pool taking on Vegas. I am very interested to see how the kid fares.

I dunno. 9 points in 19 games. Practically unstoppable. Nobody’s ever had early success and then fizzled out either. I’m sure that couldn’t possibly happen in a year or two. Nah.

 

[Herby]

This is just incredibly presumptuous and that's my point.

Caufield is awesome, I think we are all with you there. I'm not going to spend time parsing his performance as that's not the argument I'm having.

Where you lose me is where you proclaim him definitively better than Hughes-Kakko-Dach-Byram-Turcotte-Seider-Cozens-Broberg-Zegras-Pod-Soderstrom-Boldy-Knight-York already and suggesting 14 teams made mistakes when half of those guys haven't even had a chance to prove their draft pedigree.

I didn't say 14 teams, I said a lot. Some could end up being better but he is at this point a better asset than most of the guys you listed. With the season he had in college this year and how he has looked in the NHL and already being 2 years out it's without question that he goes much higher if the draft were today.

Did you believe it was to early in June 2007 to proclaim Kopitar as the 2nd best player of his draft? I said the same thing then so my views are consistent whether its a Kings player or not, you can begin to evaluate two years out, it's not to early.

 

[Herby]

I dunno. 9 points in 19 games. Practically unstoppable. Nobody’s ever had early success and then fizzled out either. I’m sure that couldn’t possibly happen in a year or two. Nah.

Why will he fizzle out? What factual reasoning are you basing it on? Do you think more players who look good in the NHL in their D+2's fizzle our or go on to stardom?

Will he will suffer a career ending injury at the hands of a player like Robyn Regehr like you said 6 years ago about Gaudreau when you incorrectly said he would also fizzle out? (Gaudreau has played an average of 77 games a season in his career)

If Byfield has a 50 point season next year will you be saying "Pump the brakes guys, he could fizzle out"?

My guess is no you wont, nor should you. But you hold a player you hated coming out to different standards for some reason than you would hold Byfield to, maybe you can explain why.

 

[Bandit]

Why will he fizzle out? What factual reasoning are you basing it on? Do you think more players who look good in the NHL in their D+2's fizzle our or go on to stardom?

Will he will suffer a career ending injury at the hands of a player like Robyn Regehr like you said 6 years ago about Gaudreau? (Who has missed 27 games in 7 seasons).

If Byfield has a 50 point season next year will you be saying "Pump the brakes guys, he could fizzle out"?

My guess is no you wont, nor should you. But you hold a player you hated coming out to different standards for some reason, maybe you can explain why.

You're just not gonna stop embarrassing yourself are you? Caufiled doesn't even have 10 career points or 20 career games under his belt regular season and playoffs combined and you keep talking like he's first ballot.I like that you edited your post too after you came to your senses about me "being wrong" about a guy who has less time in the league than you've spent on the shitter in 2021.

And I have explained why. Repeatedly. He's a shrimp, and they fail far more often than they succeed. You can keep pretending that isn't the case, or keep pretending that I haven't stated my position, but he is and I have. You can not like if you want. Tough shit.

 

[Trash Panda]

Caufield has the same chance to be DeBrincat as he does to be Rob Schremp.

 

[Herby]

You're just not gonna stop embarrassing yourself are you? Caufiled doesn't even have 10 career points or 20 career games under his belt regular season and playoffs combined and you keep talking like he's first ballot.I like that you edited your post too after you came to your senses about me "being wrong" about a guy who has less time in the league than you've spent on the shitter in 2021.

And I have explained why. Repeatedly. He's a shrimp, and they fail far more often than they succeed. You can keep pretending that isn't the case, or keep pretending that I haven't stated my position, but he is and I have. You can not like if you want. Tough shit.

I just asked a few questions. When people ask me questions I usually respond with answers and not insults, such as my reply to Racoon. But you once again show you aren't capable of that.

And yes, you are correct players like him do fail more often than they succeed. That failure doesn't usually involve looking good in the NHL playoffs in their D+2 and then fizzling out. Most midget players can't handle the NHL, you are mistaking him for a player like Justin Aczevedo or Brandon Kozun just as you did with Gaudreau.

 

[Herby]

Caufield has the same chance to be DeBrincat as he does to be Rob Schremp.

Schremp was not a small player. Schremp became an NHL regular at 23. Caufield is on Montreal's 1st line at 20.

I mean it's possible, anything is. But if you feel this way you must also feel like Byfield has the same chance to be Barkov as he has to be Nolan Patrick?

Not sure I agree with that.

 

[King'sPawn]

I think Caufield is very talented, but just like when he was in the USNTDP and Jack Hughes, he now has Nick Suzuki and a good roster to get him the pucks to do what he does best.

There's good synergy. However, the WJC last year, where he was playing with Boldy and Beniers, two very talented players, he spent more time drifting around and just thought he'd get by on shooting.

My thoughts on him are consistent: very talented, particularly on the shot. Can get at loose pucks and move it well. However, there's a dependency on having the right players to produce.

Note it's nothing about him being 5'7. If he was 6'4 and played the same way, the criticisms would be the same. Granted, there's the hope he would learn to use his weight more as he grows, but he's a 5'7 player who plays like he's 5'7. If he was a big guy playing like he was 5'7, there would be even more concern.

 

[Bandit]

I just asked a few questions. When people ask me questions I usually respond with answers and not insults, such as my reply to Racoon. But you once again show you aren't capable of that.

And yes, you are correct players like him do fail more often than they succeed. That failure doesn't usually involve looking good in the NHL playoffs in their D+2 and then fizzling out. Most midget players can't handle the NHL, you are mistaking him for a player like Justin Aczevedo or Brandon Kozun just as you did with Gaudreau.

You've done plenty more that "just ask a few questions"

There's no problem with me thinking he's going to bust (strike that, not meet lofty expectations). There's also no problem with you saying you think he's going to beat the odds. The problem is that you keep pounding your chest that you've been proven right after a pathetic 19 game sample size, and that you keep acting like I haven't stated my reasons for my position when in fact I have, repeatedly.

 

[Herby]

I think Caufield is very talented, but just like when he was in the USNTDP and Jack Hughes, he now has Nick Suzuki and a good roster to get him the pucks to do what he does best.

There's good synergy. However, the WJC last year, where he was playing with Boldy and Beniers, two very talented players, he spent more time drifting around and just thought he'd get by on shooting.

My thoughts on him are consistent: very talented, particularly on the shot. Can get at loose pucks and move it well. However, there's a dependency on having the right players to produce.

Note it's nothing about him being 5'7. If he was 6'4 and played the same way, the criticisms would be the same. Granted, there's the hope he would learn to use his weight more as he grows, but he's a 5'7 player who plays like he's 5'7. If he was a big guy playing like he was 5'7, there would be even more concern.

I respect your opinion. But I think you underestimate just how much he is driving the offense on that line. Suzuki is a great player and they compliment each other very well and at 20 and 21 look like a great future duo for Montreal (both could have easily been Kings too). In the past you have compared him to Cammalleri, who was a solid 1st line player in the NHL for a long time but MC was more of a catch and shoot type of player who couldn't make things happen as much with the puck on his stick, largely because he lacked offensive vision but also because he didn't skate or move as quickly. I don't really see any similarities other than size. I was probably the biggest MC fan on this board, and I think he always got underrated on this board (17G, 32Pt in 32 playoff games where supposedly players like him disappear) but Caufield just has an overall better skill set as a shooter, passer and skater than MC had.

I think you know my views on the WJC, didn't bother me in the least that QB didn't do anything there either. I hold more value on what a guy does at the pro level or for his junior/college team than at that tournament. Just been fooled to many times (both good and bad) over the years with players in that tournament.

 

[King'sPawn]

I respect your opinion. But I think you underestimate just how much he is driving the offense on that line. Suzuki is a great player and they compliment each other very well and at 20 and 21 look like a great future duo for Montreal (both could have easily been Kings too). In the past you have compared him to Cammalleri, who was a solid 1st line player in the NHL for a long time but MC was more of a catch and shoot type of player who couldn't make things happen as much with the puck on his stick, largely because he lacked offensive vision but also because he didn't skate or move as quickly. I don't really see any similarities other than size. I was probably the biggest MC fan on this board, and I think he always got underrated on this board (17G, 32Pt in 32 playoff games where supposedly players like him disappear) but Caufield just has an overall better skill set as a shooter, passer and skater than MC had.

I think you know my views on the WJC, didn't bother me in the least that QB didn't do anything there either. I hold more value on what a guy does at the pro level or for his junior/college team than at that tournament. Just been fooled to many times (both good and bad) over the years with players in that tournament.

I appreciate the feedback and the dialogue. Likewise, I respect your opinion and always enjoy when we can have back and forths. Again, I could very well be wrong. I think you misunderstand where I compared him to Cammalleri. You're right, I absolutely have made that comparison, but I see it more as a role/style of play. They do play very differently, but both are supplemental scorers who need a bit of synergy.

With the WJCs, I don't bring it up because of numbers. I bring it up as far as how they play and why things were going wrong. I agree people put too much emphasis on it, but I also think they emphasize on the wrong facets. They look at numbers.

Byfield was mostly struggling when partnered up with an anchor in Jack Quinn. And most lines struggled wherever Quinn was moved to. Even when he wasn't score, Byfield was challenging and trying to drive the play and set up his teammates. I just didn't see that type of drive or effort from Caufield. Beniers and Boldy did most of the work for him, and he was still inconsistent at best.

I think you are seeing Caufield playing emotionally charged, which when he does so is fantastic. He had the excitement of his first few pro-games and now several playoff games. I get it. I wish the Kings players will be emotionally charged. There will eventually be a dip in his play, and I think the criticisms I have stated will be more apparent then. He will skate around, take a low-percentage shot, then wait for his linemates to dig it out for him again.

This is where I will bring up the size now, though - what you see is what you get. Smaller players develop, physically, faster. I think it's also why several teams passed up on him. Yes, the Kings would absolutely benefit from a player who believes every shot he takes could go in. There's just not much more to mold and develop.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I didn't say 14 teams, I said a lot. Some could end up being better but he is at this point a better asset than most of the guys you listed. With the season he had in college this year and how he has looked in the NHL and already being 2 years out it's without question that he goes much higher if the draft were today.

Did you believe it was to early in June 2007 to proclaim Kopitar as the 2nd best player of his draft? I said the same thing then so my views are consistent whether its a Kings player or not, you can begin to evaluate two years out, it's not to early.

Yeah, kinda, given most ahead of him hadn't debuted yet. But that's mostly going to be a difference in philosophy I'm fine with.

I guess using the Kopitar example helps me make my point--Kopitar establishing himself early didn't immediately invalidate all the picks in front of him. Finding a gem at your draft slot is great but it shouldn't fill literally everyone else with regret either.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Honestly, Turcotte and Bjornfot was a very good first round draft for the Kings. Caulfield is a scorer but the Kings got a top 6 center and Top 4 dman. Can’t really complain about that draft.


For this upcoming draft, I think there’s going to be a ton of steals and value picks because of Covid and some players just haven’t played enough/any games to evaluate as you would in a normal year.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Cole caufield is a very talented scoring winger, silly to knock him as the talent is very obvious. He will likely never offer much in the way of two way play though.

 

[Herby]

Cole caufield is a very talented scoring winger, silly to knock him as the talent is very obvious. He will likely never offer much in the way of two way play though.

Correct.

That is why you add two-way players throughout the rest of your roster. It is significantly easier to find two-way or gritty players than it is to find players with the offensive skill set of Caufield. I think that is a point that gets lost to much, and was one of the biggest reasons I wanted him so badly. There are players like Cozens, Dach, Turcotte, Boldy, Zegras and York in every draft.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Correct.

That is why you add two-way players throughout the rest of your roster. It is significantly easier to find two-way or gritty players than it is to find players with the offensive skill set of Caufield. I think that is a point that gets lost to much, and was one of the biggest reasons I wanted him so badly. There are players like Cozens, Dach, Turcotte, Boldy, Zegras and York in every draft.

Yeah I agree, caufield is a gem.

 

[Sol]

As a perennial offseason optimist, this is the first year in a while where I have absolutely no hope in this franchise. However it puts me in the rare spot that I won't be disappointed. I expect the prospects to all flounder. I will only be happy once our prospects actually fill their shoes and give me a reason to root. Blind optimistm is done for.

 

[Herby]

As a perennial offseason optimist, this is the first year in a while where I have absolutely no hope in this franchise. However it puts me in the rare spot that I won't be disappointed. I expect the prospects to all flounder. I will only be happy once our prospects actually fill their shoes and give me a reason to root. Blind optimistm is done for.

There can be a happy medium. You should have some high hopes for Byfield and Kaliyev. First time in a really long time the Kings have a couple of forwards who project as potential impact scorers. But I get it, I worry that Blake is just doing the same thing that Taylor did, just accumulating youth but no idea how to build a decent team with it.