Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster discussion

[Ollie Weeks]

That's still a longer rope than Lombardi, who won 2 in three years (most recently in 2014) and fired in 2017 - three years later.

Furthermore, Lombardi also had more of a direct role in building his cup winning team. That video posted on here somewhere after Gorton was fired, covering his work in Boston prior to Chiarelli taking over, was pretty eye opening.

 

[Schmooley]

That happens. They lost their core (Getzlaf/Perry/Kesler/Eaves) due to a combination of age and injury. And if they rebuild now I have no problem with that...they have no $10 million players on multi-year contracts who just happen to be the best players on the team. They'll find their way.

They lost their core but they were only retooling? Getlaf played last season. You dont make sense. I agree with you on some things but a lot of your points seem like you just hate the Kings and other teams that suck worse are somehow better off than them.

 

[The Lukeman]

...and he wouldn't be available if there were not questions about his health.

Some are legitimately concerned.

I disagree. There was a lot of smoke last summer about Eichel trades, before all the injuries. It was becoming more and more apparent that he wanted out of Buffalo. They signed Taylor Hall try to and prove to him that he can win there.

 

[tomd]

The cap has only been around since 2005, so keep your research within that time frame. It's the same as expansion. The only expansion team so in the cap era was Vegas, and that's why the rules were substantially different from what prior teams got.

Go through the rebuilds in the hard cap era. Find the teams that have been able to get rid of any high priced, long term, old guys.

That's the problem part. The team was crap from day 1 of training camp in 18-19, so what do you do with a veteran team that sits at the bottom of the league at least half way through? This is the Kings in 2018, not 2015. This is an 18-19 bottom 5 team half way through the year after 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18. A yearly thing where they just don't have enough of anything. This isn't the Blues, who hired a failed coach as their savior that year. They kept Doughty. They added Kovalchuk. Wanted to bring in other guys. To keep trying to be competitive. Then it all fell apart. What do you do? Fire the GM who didn't build the team? I thought Stevens was able to bring out some offense, and he was the player friendly coach that the players were constantly crying about, but then, of course, the players on this team that have let down a couple GMs continued to do so.

The question you've never addressed is how the rebuild was going to be successful in 3 years? That was the commitment...return to the playoffs in 21-22. All of my comments and criticisms are based upon that narrative. If the stated timeframe of the rebuild was 6-7 years then we wouldn't be having this discussion and Doughty would have already asked for a trade. Worse days would be ahead but that would have been known and accepted by now.

I'll be very generous (for once) with Blake for the following...I believe that his 3 year plan was predicated on players drafted from 17-20 to have assumed much more prominent roles on the team than they actually have. None of the forwards drafted thus far have been able to find success in top 6 roles. Anderson and Bjornfot have made the team on defense but they are far from dynamic game changers. Goaltending looks shaky.

So the 3 year internal rebuild has essentially failed (or at least looks more like 5-6-7 years which means the same thing). The next step (this summer) is to take those accumulated picks and prospects and parlay them into real NHL players who can get the team back into the playoffs next year. If Blake is successful in doing that it is going to piss off a lot of people here depending on the cost. I understand the angst. Like one other poster here, I like the Occam's Razor test. And Occam's Razor in this case always was going to be failure of a 3 year rebuild and spending a lot of assets to repair that damage. That's where the team is right now.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Every GM in the league has a reputation. Blake is building his legacy now. Even after the Kovy disaster I still think he deserves some credit for adding some NCAA talent. I don't hate the guy, my only issue and question is why the core of a 2 time NHL stanley cup team fell apart. Can he answer that? He was in management with DL during that time, and is now at the helm. Will he repeat those mistakes. I hope not.

We were all led to believe the players were are old and slow...really? The facts don't add up. So what is the problem to question if this rebuild will be built on the right foundation.

Was 2012-2014 built on the right foundation? Thinking about it, maybe DL just built a winning team, not a enduring winning culture.

 

[tomd]

They lost their core but they were only retooling? Getlaf played last season. You dont make sense. I agree with you on some things but a lot of your points seem like you just hate the Kings and other teams that suck worse are somehow better off than them.

Getzlaf scored 3 goals last year. He's a shell of his former self due to age.

Each time has to chart their own course. The Ducks situation is totally different than LA which is different from Ottawa which is different from Detroit which is different from Buffalo. I've criticized Murray on the Ducks board for not evaluating the team's talent level properly last year and signing Henrique and Silfverberg to extensions. The posts are there for you to read. Those extensions were a mistake. I've criticized the Tracey draft pick. It looks bad right now. So I am trying to be objective with both teams.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The question you've never addressed is how the rebuild was going to be successful in 3 years? That was the commitment...return to the playoffs in 21-22. All of my comments and criticisms are based upon that narrative. If the stated timeframe of the rebuild was 6-7 years then we wouldn't be having this discussion and Doughty would have already asked for a trade. Worse days would be ahead but that would have been known and accepted by now.

I'll be very generous (for once) with Blake for the following...I believe that his 3 year plan was predicated on players drafted from 17-20 to have assumed much more prominent roles on the team than they actually have. None of the forwards drafted thus far have been able to find success in top 6 roles. Anderson and Bjornfot have made the team on defense but they are far from dynamic game changers. Goaltending looks shaky.

So the 3 year internal rebuild has essentially failed (or at least looks more like 5-6-7 years which means the same thing). The next step (this summer) is to take those accumulated picks and prospects and parlay them into real NHL players who can get the team back into the playoffs next year. If Blake is successful in doing that it is going to piss off a lot of people here depending on the cost. I understand the angst. Like one other poster here, I like the Occam's Razor test. And Occam's Razor in this case always was going to be failure of a 3 year rebuild and spending a lot of assets to repair that damage. That's where the team is right now.

You answer my questions first. Getting rid of old money in the hard cap era, and a roster that looked disinterested after 4 years of doing nothing with a veteran group that had won.

It depends on what successful is. If they're interested in spending money, they can make a team to get to the 1st rd next year.

 

[funky]

The question you've never addressed is how the rebuild was going to be successful in 3 years? That was the commitment...return to the playoffs in 21-22. All of my comments and criticisms are based upon that narrative. If the stated timeframe of the rebuild was 6-7 years then we wouldn't be having this discussion and Doughty would have already asked for a trade. Worse days would be ahead but that would have been known and accepted by now.

I'll be very generous (for once) with Blake for the following...I believe that his 3 year plan was predicated on players drafted from 17-20 to have assumed much more prominent roles on the team than they actually have. None of the forwards drafted thus far have been able to find success in top 6 roles. Anderson and Bjornfot have made the team on defense but they are far from dynamic game changers. Goaltending looks shaky.

So the 3 year internal rebuild has essentially failed (or at least looks more like 5-6-7 years which means the same thing). The next step (this summer) is to take those accumulated picks and prospects and parlay them into real NHL players who can get the team back into the playoffs next year. If Blake is successful in doing that it is going to piss off a lot of people here depending on the cost. I understand the angst. Like one other poster here, I like the Occam's Razor test. And Occam's Razor in this case always was going to be failure of a 3 year rebuild and spending a lot of assets to repair that damage. That's where the team is right now.

It might just be me but shouldn’t we wait until the end of the 21-22 season before we get our collective knickers in a bunch.

we can also look at it as we are going into the off-season with a true #1 center, a true #1 Dman and a very young team with the most capspace in the league. Adding to it we have one of the top prospect bases another top 10 pick and a GM that wants to take the next step.

 

[tomd]

You answer my questions first. Getting rid of old money in the hard cap era, and a roster that looked disinterested after 4 years of doing nothing with a veteran group that had won.

It depends on what successful is. If they're interested in spending money, they can make a team to get to the 1st rd next year.

I've answered that question many times...the answer was to retool the roster NOT rebuild it. That would have required asking the key questions...why is the team underperforming? Is it culture or talent? If it's culture what moves can we make to improve that? If it's talent what moves can we make to improve that? Blake is being paid to make those assessments. And it is now painfully obvious that it was culture and not talent that was plaguing the team.

As to your 2nd point...successful now clearly means making the playoffs next year.

 

[Mats26]

Was 2012-2014 built on the right foundation? Thinking about it, maybe DL just built a winning team, not a enduring winning culture.

No question. Lombardi's only quest was to build for a cup contender and keep the team in the cup window for as long as he could. He didn't care about prospects or picks as much as his core vets. That's what eventually led him to be fired. He should of moved some for younger pieces. But that is history now, time to look forward and hope we learned from it.

 

[King'sPawn]

My point was that you didn't need to spend 3 paragraphs hurling insults at people because they had the audacity of questioning Blake's moves. It was a pointless comment. I think it's fair for some people to be wondering why the Kings have two of the top 11 highest cap hits in the league, yet the team has been lifeless for the past 3 seasons. This is compounded by all of the depth pieces you mentioned above flourishing with their new teams. Sucking for prospects is fine, but the product is currently abysmal. We are in danger of sinking into that losing culture that has taken over in Buffalo, the team basically gave up in half of the games this season.

My opinion on Blake has really soured this season and I think it is fair to question some of his moves. He has done a great job at drafting players who are considered high end and that is very exciting, but other than that he has not shown much success(again in my opinion). We are in the middle of a rebuild, but like I said earlier there is more to a rebuild than just sucking for a few years.

Hindsight armchair GMs who hurl criticisms at management shouldn't hear how dumb their conclusions are?

One thing is for certain, Kings17 and I have had very heated arguments as far as direction. One thing I know I will never accuse him of, though, is using hindsight to back up his arguments, because he's been making the same assertions for years. Just like (hopefully) he won't accuse me of using hindsight to make my point.

I bring the above up, because all of a sudden, now that the Kings missed the playoffs again, Blake is getting criticized for not bringing in middle-and-bottom-six players. When they get called out for how unreasonable they are sounding, they double down and say we're making excuses.

Sorry, you (general you, not specifically crassbonanza) want to assert how much ****ing smarter you are with hindsight, you're going to get called out.

There are obviously many things to question for a bottom-10 team. Those questions are, in general, fair. But there are some absurd takes and Monday morning quarterbacking going on in this thread.

And, it is honestly a bit too early to declare it Buffalo territory - by sheer virtue that:
- the Kings have improved statistically
- the Kings never actively traded away the only pieces to make them lose more (which, ironically, is what the proponents of "trade Kopitar/Doughty" want)

 

[Reclamation Project]

Furthermore, Lombardi also had more of a direct role in building his cup winning team. That video posted on here somewhere after Gorton was fired, covering his work in Boston prior to Chiarelli taking over, was pretty eye opening.

 

[Sol]

I disagree. There was a lot of smoke last summer about Eichel trades, before all the injuries. It was becoming more and more apparent that he wanted out of Buffalo. They signed Taylor Hall try to and prove to him that he can win there.

Yeah there was lots of rumblings that he didn't want to be in Buffalo.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My point was that you didn't need to spend 3 paragraphs hurling insults at people because they had the audacity of questioning Blake's moves. It was a pointless comment. I think it's fair for some people to be wondering why the Kings have two of the top 11 highest cap hits in the league, yet the team has been lifeless for the past 3 seasons. This is compounded by all of the depth pieces you mentioned above flourishing with their new teams. Sucking for prospects is fine, but the product is currently abysmal. We are in danger of sinking into that losing culture that has taken over in Buffalo, the team basically gave up in half of the games this season.

My opinion on Blake has really soured this season and I think it is fair to question some of his moves. He has done a great job at drafting players who are considered high end and that is very exciting, but other than that he has not shown much success(again in my opinion). We are in the middle of a rebuild, but like I said earlier there is more to a rebuild than just sucking for a few years.

I didn't hurl insults for people questioning Blake's moves, so I don't know what you are reading. I'm questioning those who are bickering over Blake trading veteran players when those are the types of moves a GM has to make to rebuild his roster.

I don't care if it is Rob Blake or Mike Futa or whoever else is in the GM seat, but whoever is in that position has to make some unpopular moves, moves that clearly appear to be bothering some fans because they love to cling onto past relics.

I also question the logic at hand. This was an organization that lacked any semblance of a future in 2017. They went from having one of the most expensive and depleted pipelines to the exact opposite. You know, things a rebuilding team will try to accomplish. Now that phase of the rebuild appears to be nearing it ends, where the prospect pool is stocked, and the team can start to afford to make some moves that can help the team now (and hopefully into the future).

You are afraid they are sinking into a losing culture? Guess what, that's been happening for years, and so they trade most of those players who were part of that losing culture and you find that to be problematic?

If you think that is insulting, then so be it. Some of you either lack patience, or have zero comprehension of how necessary the moves that were made were, and can't see the forest from the trees. Can't help those who choose to be dense.

 

[crassbonanza]

Hindsight armchair GMs who hurl criticisms at management shouldn't hear how dumb their conclusions are?

One thing is for certain, Kings17 and I have had very heated arguments as far as direction. One thing I know I will never accuse him of, though, is using hindsight to back up his arguments, because he's been making the same assertions for years. Just like (hopefully) he won't accuse me of using hindsight to make my point.

I bring the above up, because all of a sudden, now that the Kings missed the playoffs again, Blake is getting criticized for not bringing in middle-and-bottom-six players. When they get called out for how unreasonable they are sounding, they double down and say we're making excuses.

Sorry, you (general you, not specifically crassbonanza) want to assert how much ****ing smarter you are with hindsight, you're going to get called out.

There are obviously many things to question for a bottom-10 team. Those questions are, in general, fair. But there are some absurd takes and Monday morning quarterbacking going on in this thread.

And, it is honestly a bit too early to declare it Buffalo territory - by sheer virtue that:
- the Kings have improved statistically
- the Kings never actively traded away the only pieces to make them lose more (which, ironically, is what the proponents of "trade Kopitar/Doughty" want)

I will speak as someone who defended Blake pretty often in recent years, who has soured recently. I'm not really coming at this from a hindsight perspective. I understood his need to rebuild once the team fell apart under Stevens, I mean it was kind of forced upon him. However, despite understanding the general direction of the team it's the moves he has made along the way that I am questioning. Starting with hiring WD. He might possibly be the worst coach the Kimgs have ever had and Blake needed to step in after WD was having a very open spat with the players. That whole situation was an absolute mess. As far as coaching goes, I've also mentioned that I despise TMac's 1-3-1 and the fact that we are spending prime development years of our blue chip prospects having them focus on it. TMac being Blake's buddy means he will be here long term and I am concerned that the system will not be successful.

There also should be some concern about our development program, despite having the best prospect pool in the league we do not have any prospects that appear to be taking the next step. Of course it is early and prospects have a long ways to go and I am still very much excited for all of them, but I am a bit wary.

Lastly, the team being so lifeless at times during the season is a bit of a concern. This is a lingering issue that goes back to 2015 and those crushing losses down the stretch leading to us missing the playoffs, but this still is on Blake. Here has had the steering wheel for long enough and was assisting for even longer. The longer that issue persists, the harder it is to purge.

Of course Blake has all of the opportunity in front of him to turn this team around. He has built a deep prospect pool and a great cap situation. I'm not completely turning on him, but I am noticing some warts.

 

[crassbonanza]

I didn't hurl insults for people questioning Blake's moves, so I don't know what you are reading. I'm questioning those who are bickering over Blake trading veteran players when those are the types of moves a GM has to make to rebuild his roster.

I don't care if it is Rob Blake or Mike Futa or whoever else is in the GM seat, but whoever is in that position has to make some unpopular moves, moves that clearly appear to be bothering some fans because they love to cling onto past relics.

I also question the logic at hand. This was an organization that lacked any semblance of a future in 2017. They went from having one of the most expensive and depleted pipelines to the exact opposite. You know, things a rebuilding team will try to accomplish. Now that phase of the rebuild appears to be nearing it ends, where the prospect pool is stocked, and the team can start to afford to make some moves that can help the team now (and hopefully into the future).

You are afraid they are sinking into a losing culture? Guess what, that's been happening for years, and so they trade most of those players who were part of that losing culture and you find that to be problematic?

If you think that is insulting, then so be it. Some of you either lack patience, or have zero comprehension of how necessary the moves that were made were, and can't see the forest from the trees. Can't help those who choose to be dense.

I think it was insulting when you were calling people ignorant and uninformed. I think it's insulting when you are calling people dense. I think you are so focused on your own viewpoint that you are immediately writing off any other arguments with a broad stroke. I think you can criticize some moves. I think you can criticize that since Blake has taken over we have witnessed some of the most uninspiring hockey.

I agree that Blake has built a great prospect pool and has a good cap situation. He was forced into it, but he's done a good job in that aspect after changing gears. I'm very hopeful for the teams future and am really excited, but as I've mentioned elsewhere I'm starting to be concerned about certain decisions Blake has made. If you consider that dense, ignorant, or uninformed then so be it.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I've answered that question many times...the answer was to retool the roster NOT rebuild it. That would have required asking the key questions...why is the team underperforming? Is it culture or talent? If it's culture what moves can we make to improve that? If it's talent what moves can we make to improve that? Blake is being paid to make those assessments. And it is now painfully obvious that it was culture and not talent that was plaguing the team.

As to your 2nd point...successful now clearly means making the playoffs next year.

And when do you think the culture went bad, and why? Was it ever good? Just because you win, doesn't mean the underlying foundation is solid.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I think it was insulting when you were calling people ignorant and uninformed. I think it's insulting when you are calling people dense. I think you are so focused on your own viewpoint that you are immediately writing off any other arguments with a broad stroke. I think you can criticize some moves. I think you can criticize that since Blake has taken over we have witnessed some of the most uninspiring hockey.

I agree that Blake has built a great prospect pool and has a good cap situation. He was forced into it, but he's done a good job in that aspect after changing gears. I'm very hopeful for the teams future and am really excited, but as I've mentioned elsewhere I'm starting to be concerned about certain decisions Blake has made. If you consider that dense, ignorant, or uninformed then so be it.

Do you honestly believe Blake is done building this team? That's what I have a problem with. I can't wrap my head around anyone who thinks that way.

 

[crassbonanza]

Do you honestly believe Blake is done building this team? That's what I have a problem with. I can't wrap my head around anyone who thinks that way.

See, this is what I'm saying Ziggy. You are ignoring any actual arguments and building a strawman to attack. At no point in any of my comments did I say that I honestly believe he is done building this team. In fact every one of my issues have been regarding actions he has taken or things I have seen in the midst of the rebuild. None of my arguments have even hinted towards believing the rebuild is over. It is fun to see you add a bit of strawman to your ad hominen attacks though. Really spicing it up, haha.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

See, this is what I'm saying Ziggy. You are ignoring any actual arguments and building a strawman to attack. At no point in any of my comments did I say that I honestly believe he is done building this team. In fact every one of my issues have been regarding actions he has taken or things I have seen in the midst of the rebuild. None of my arguments have even hinted towards believing the rebuild is over. It is fun to see you add a bit of strawman to your ad hominen attacks though. Really spicing it up, haha.

You can continue bickering prematurely then if you'd like. Let's just get upset that Tobias Bjornfot isn't a finished product yet, and blame Blake for underselling players who performed poorly here. That's a lot more productive and prudent.

 

[KingsFan7824]

No question. Lombardi's only quest was to build for a cup contender and keep the team in the cup window for as long as he could. He didn't care about prospects or picks as much as his core vets. That's what eventually led him to be fired. He should of moved some for younger pieces. But that is history now, time to look forward and hope we learned from it.

I think we need to stop with all the culture stuff. All we want is a winner.

What is Detroit's success from say 1995 to 2010 doing for them today? Not a damn thing. Blah, blah, blah. Pay to get talent, and win. Get a coach to mold the money, and win. That's it. For one year, five years, if it's 10 years that's great. We just want to see them win.

All it is is talent. They managed to survive Richards breaking down. They have yet to recover from the 1-2 punch of Mitchell and Voynov going away. The draft is a crap shoot. It's probably never going to be as good as it was for those 3 years, no matter what they do. Or, if it is, it'll take a while. A lot of things have to go your way to win 1 Cup, let alone 2 in 3.

This being the internet, we get lost in all these details. Day to day conversations about this and that little thing. You just have to spend money, and I believe the Kings have the lowest payroll in the league. You have to spend it smartly, but you have to spend money.

 

[tomd]

And when do you think the culture went bad, and why? Was it ever good? Just because you win, doesn't mean the underlying foundation is solid.

Great question and really it is the core issue, isn't it?

I can no longer blame the players...most of them are all gone now and it is too easy to blame 8/11/23/32 alone.
I can no longer blame the beach. It is a distraction but so is NYC, Miami, Toronto or any number of other locations.
I can no longer blame money. All players around the league make a lot of money.

My answer is character and leadership. And that is not just the players. Does Blake exude leadership to anyone? Does anyone fear or respect him? I have my doubts. Lombardi - for all his faults IMO - was a leader. Everyone knew it. It was his way or the highway. And to his credit he brought in a boatload of character and leadership to the team. And that's what Blake should have focused on in 2017-18. Instead he brought in two of the worst examples I can imagine - Kovalchuk and Phaneuf. Had he brought in some veteran character and leadership it would have (IMO) added massively to the existing talent that existed. But he didn't.

Now to Blake's credit, he is trying to draft players with some character and leadership. But those players are 3-5 years away from acquiring the experience and respect necessary to lead other men. The team can't wait that long.

Lastly, it was character flaws that brought Lombardi crashing down more than anything else primarily in the form of Voynov and Richards. The Kings were never able to replace Voynov on the ice. And Richards became a huge liability in 2014 and the Kings could never replace him or what they gave up to get him. Had Richards and Voynov been able to overcome their demons history would have been written much differently from 2014 on.

Hope that answers your question. It is an important one and needed a serious answer.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Kings culture is shitty offense. That’s the only constant in the last 15 years.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Great question and really it is the core issue, isn't it?

I can no longer blame the players...most of them are all gone now and it is too easy to blame 8/11/23/32 alone.
I can no longer blame the beach. It is a distraction but so is NYC, Miami, Toronto or any number of other locations.
I can no longer blame money. All players around the league make a lot of money.

My answer is character and leadership. And that is not just the players. Does Blake exude leadership to anyone? Does anyone fear or respect him? I have my doubts. Lombardi - for all his faults IMO - was a leader. Everyone knew it. It was his way or the highway. And to his credit he brought in a boatload of character and leadership to the team. And that's what Blake should have focused on in 2017-18. Instead he brought in two of the worst examples I can imagine - Kovalchuk and Phaneuf. Had he brought in some veteran character and leadership it would have (IMO) added massively to the existing talent that existed. But he didn't.

Now to Blake's credit, he is trying to draft players with some character and leadership. But those players are 3-5 years away from acquiring the experience and respect necessary to lead other men. The team can't wait that long.

Lastly, it was character flaws that brought Lombardi crashing down more than anything else primarily in the form of Voynov and Richards. The Kings were never able to replace Voynov on the ice. And Richards became a huge liability in 2014 and the Kings could never replace him or what they gave up to get him. Had Richards and Voynov been able to overcome their demons history would have been written much differently from 2014 on.

Hope that answers your question. It is an important one and needed a serious answer.

You're saying two different things. The talent went away, and that's when the culture shifted?

DL was his way or the highway? Is that why the first guy he traded from the Cup teams was King in 2017? Why he got lost in the eyes of Mike Richards in that cabin in the woods? Why he brought Voynov in for a practice after? His last move for a Cup was to bring in a guy that cried his way out of Columbus too. Not exactly bursting with character.

You do wonder if he would've drafted Brown and Kopitar though. Quick, maybe. Obviously he took Doughty.

 

[DoktorJeep]

This team has gotten around 44% of the points available 3 seasons in a row. In a normal season, the cut off line for playoff teams is 90 points at the floor. So that works out to about 10 wins above their historical pace to make the playoffs next season.

That’s not crazy and I’m sure you could find some examples in the last decade of teams who pulled that off. And for the Kings specifically there are reasons available to think they could do that. Unfortunately, all those reasons are built on hope.

Hope the 30+ year old vets produce again

Hope the trades work out

Hope the free agents work out

Hope the prospects take a major step forward

And again, yes, all or some of those things could happen. But that’s the same basic story for Vancouver, Calgary, SJ and maybe the Kraken. There’s probably one Ducks fan somewhere on the globe looking at their team through orange tinted glasses and dreaming of moon shots. It would be safer to predict the Kraken having better odds of making the playoffs next season by the time training camp opens versus the Kings.

This management team came in peddling hope and haven’t produced anything worth cheering about to date. Now some hope Rob Blake suddenly turns into a high end operator and fixes this team overnight to the tune of 10 extra wins a season being a real thing. Keep hoping Kings fans, but hope for a firing of BLuc if you want to see another cup in your lifetime.