Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster discussion

[LAKings88]

Ryan Graves on the Avs has been stellar this year and was even player of the game tonight against St. Louis.

What a fantastic trade for the Avs.

Ryan Graves, the one who got away

The February 26, 2018 trade was inconsequential. The New York Rangers and the Colorado Avalanche swapped minor league defensemen. The Avalanche gave up a 23-year old lefthanded shooting blueliner that they had drafted in the second round of the 2013 NHL Entry Draft. The Rangers traded a 23-year old lefthanded shooting defenseman they had drafted in the fourth round the same year.

Kings should go hard after one of the Av’s dmen imho.

 

[crassbonanza]

I don't think this team will improve until TMac moves on from the 1-3-1. It's an outdated system and I can't remember the last team that used such a passive strategy and had success. Further, the team is forcing the Reign to adopt the same system, which is going to affect development. Wroblenski had a quote a month or so back talking about how it took all season to teach Kaliyev the 1-3-1. We are spending early development years trying to force an outdated system on our prospects and then we wonder why they don't produce when they join the team. I've been over Luc for a long time, but thought Blake had done some nice things. At this point though I'm starting to be concerned with his decision making. The prospects aren't developing well, the team looks absolutely horrible at times and we are seeing players leave the organization and flourish. Maybe the playoffs were unrealistic, but being competitive against the Sharks and Ducks absolutely should have been.

Luc's off ice decisions have been embarrassingly bad and now it seems that the guy he chose to develop the on ice product is following the same path.

 

[Docgonzo]

If we are asking all of this, why aren't we asking or demanding to know why Lombardi was fired? Show me another example of a GM having shorter rope after winning championships the way LAK did.

MABYE the problem is BLuc....I NEVER thought Blake was a good option and will never think so until I see some playoff success behind him.

Peter Chiarelli with Boston, won the cup in 2011 fired in 2015.

 

[tomd]

I have never seen a GM with so many excuses. He was part of managment in the latter years of DL tenure which I think set this team back a decade. He publicly endorsed the Lucic trade, thank god we had no cap space to resign him. Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort, Lewis, Toffoli, Carter, Clifford, Campbell are all in the playoffs , ALL playing really well. When he took over, he should of first figured out what the hell was wrong with the culture, motivation, chemistry etc... before selling off and rebuilding so we don't rebuild on a rotten foundation. It's clear to me that the players recently traded still had the talent, just didn't care about the organization anymore. Why?

But he did well early on aquiring talent at the NCAA level, they should continue to focus on their strengths there. Like I said a few post ago without Futa this team is rudderless at the NHL Pro level. Need to fix that soon. Bring in players that want to play for the Kings....Starting to sound like Buffalo don't u think? and hopefully they rebuild on a solid core foundation. Wether that is 1 trade or 50 is not the point, the point is we need to move forward.

This is such a smart post and echoes much of what I've been saying for 2.5 years. It should get a bunch of "likes" but I doubt it will.

It also cannot be emphasized enough that each of the players you mentioned above - with the possible exception of Muzzin - were sold at a discount to what their actual talent was. They were sold at the "LA culture dysfunction" discount. Blake got a bunch of late 2nd's and 3rd's and a couple of marginal prospects for players they now have no idea how to replace. And when they do try to replace them this summer the cost will be substantially higher. Brilliant.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

This is such a smart post and echoes much of what I've been saying for 2.5 years. It should get a bunch of "likes" but I doubt it will.

It also cannot be emphasized enough that each of the players you mentioned above - with the possible exception of Muzzin - were sold at a discount to what their actual talent was. They were sold at the "LA culture dysfunction" discount. Blake got a bunch of late 2nd's and 3rd's and a couple of marginal prospects for players they now have no idea how to replace. And when they do try to replace them this summer the cost will be substantially higher. Brilliant.

What’s hilarious is reading these comments from all these armchair GMs who were calling for all of these players to be traded and wanted them off the team ASAP. Now they’re bickering about trading them.

Seems like a bunch of you are new to a rebuild and can’t process what was necessary at the time. Maybe you should educate yourselves on how the team turned itself around after sucking for so many years.

But it’s like talking to a wall with you, so I won’t even bother. Enjoy your whinefest.

 

[Docgonzo]

I have never seen a GM with so many excuses. He was part of managment in the latter years of DL tenure which I think set this team back a decade. He publicly endorsed the Lucic trade, thank god we had no cap space to resign him. Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort, Lewis, Toffoli, Carter, Clifford, Campbell are all in the playoffs , ALL playing really well. When he took over, he should of first figured out what the hell was wrong with the culture, motivation, chemistry etc... before selling off and rebuilding so we don't rebuild on a rotten foundation. It's clear to me that the players recently traded still had the talent, just didn't care about the organization anymore. Why?

But he did well early on aquiring talent at the NCAA level, they should continue to focus on their strengths there. Like I said a few post ago without Futa this team is rudderless at the NHL Pro level. Need to fix that soon. Bring in players that want to play for the Kings....Starting to sound like Buffalo don't u think? and hopefully they rebuild on a solid core foundation. Wether that is 1 trade or 50 is not the point, the point is we need to move forward.

Ive never seen a GM get so much hate for forming at top 3 prospect pool.

Im 50/50 if Blake is the correct GM for this team. But the hatred for him from what he did here as a player is amazing how people still hold onto this.

And that’s what this is, go back to the board discussions about getting his number retired and you’ll see. A lot of people still hate him and that’s all the see as him as a GM.

 

[tomd]

What’s hilarious is reading these comments from all these armchair GMs who were calling for all of these players to be traded and wanted them off the team ASAP. Now they’re bickering about trading them.

Seems like a bunch of you are new to a rebuild and can’t process what was necessary at the time. Maybe you should educate yourselves on how the team turned itself around after sucking for so many years.

But it’s like talking to a wall with you, so I won’t even bother. Enjoy your whinefest.

Find me a rebuild in the history of the NHL where the 5 most expensive players on the team were retained while the core of the supporting cast was traded for futures. That is the exact opposite of how 99% of rebuilds are done.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I have never seen a GM with so many excuses. He was part of managment in the latter years of DL tenure which I think set this team back a decade. He publicly endorsed the Lucic trade, thank god we had no cap space to resign him. Muzzin, Martinez, Forbort, Lewis, Toffoli, Carter, Clifford, Campbell are all in the playoffs , ALL playing really well. When he took over, he should of first figured out what the hell was wrong with the culture, motivation, chemistry etc... before selling off and rebuilding so we don't rebuild on a rotten foundation. It's clear to me that the players recently traded still had the talent, just didn't care about the organization anymore. Why?

But he did well early on aquiring talent at the NCAA level, they should continue to focus on their strengths there. Like I said a few post ago without Futa this team is rudderless at the NHL Pro level. Need to fix that soon. Bring in players that want to play for the Kings....Starting to sound like Buffalo don't u think? and hopefully they rebuild on a solid core foundation. Wether that is 1 trade or 50 is not the point, the point is we need to move forward.

I don't know. Seems like all that not caring anymore started right after winning in 2014. Need to figure out what DL was doing. Sutter too. Even Williams was here when they stopped giving a damn. They were down 0-3 looking like a terrible team to start those playoffs too. Maybe trading Frattin was the problem?

 

[BigKing]

Ive never seen a GM get so much hate for forming at top 3 prospect pool.

Im 50/50 if Blake is the correct GM for this team. But the hatred for him from what he did here as a player is amazing how people still hold onto this.

And that’s what this is, go back to the board discussions about getting his number retired and you’ll see. A lot of people still hate him and that’s all the see as him as a GM.

I don't like him and don't think his jersey should have been retired.

If you don't have top ranked prospect pool after four straight drafts of keeping all your picks while adding more by nuking the roster, you're incompetent. That's just a fact so he doesn't deserve high praise for being competent.

The praise is reserved for when that ranking produces tangible results and I'll be the first to give it.

 

[BigKing]

Find me a rebuild in the history of the NHL where the 5 most expensive players on the team were retained while the core of the supporting cast was traded for futures. That is the exact opposite of how 99% of rebuilds are done.

Because the rebuild was a surprise and the guys they wanted to get rid of didn't have value.

They never wanted to trade Kopitar or Doughty.

 

[Docgonzo]

Find me a rebuild in the history of the NHL where the 5 most expensive players on the team were retained while the core of the supporting cast was traded for futures. That is the exact opposite of how 99% of rebuilds are done.

Anaheim Ducks? Getzlaf, Rakell, Silverberg, Henrique, Gibson, Manson.

 

[crassbonanza]

What’s hilarious is reading these comments from all these armchair GMs who were calling for all of these players to be traded and wanted them off the team ASAP. Now they’re bickering about trading them.

Seems like a bunch of you are new to a rebuild and can’t process what was necessary at the time. Maybe you should educate yourselves on how the team turned itself around after sucking for so many years.

But it’s like talking to a wall with you, so I won’t even bother. Enjoy your whinefest.

There is absolutely no reason to make this comment, the entire purpose seems to be to just hurl insults. It's OK for people to disagree with the moves Blake has made. I've defended him in the past and criticized him as well. You spend 3 paragraphs being rude and then follow it up with "I won't even bother". Maybe you shouldn't have.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There is absolutely no reason to make this comment, the entire purpose seems to be to just hurl insults. It's OK for people to disagree with the moves Blake has made. I've defended him in the past and criticized him as well. You spend 3 paragraphs being rude and then follow it up with "I won't even bother". Maybe you shouldn't have.

Maybe because I’m tired of reading the same old shit and uninformed whining for the past however many pages? It’s been like this since the latter half of the season.

People are complaining about a rebuild that isn’t even complete, before the offseason has even started. As if this is the exact same team we’ll be seeing on the ice come October. I guess it’s your choice if you want to remain ignorant.

Jeff Carter’s success appears to be causing some Kings fans to lose their minds.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Find me a rebuild in the history of the NHL where the 5 most expensive players on the team were retained while the core of the supporting cast was traded for futures. That is the exact opposite of how 99% of rebuilds are done.

The cap has only been around since 2005, so keep your research within that time frame. It's the same as expansion. The only expansion team so in the cap era was Vegas, and that's why the rules were substantially different from what prior teams got.

Go through the rebuilds in the hard cap era. Find the teams that have been able to get rid of any high priced, long term, old guys.

That's the problem part. The team was crap from day 1 of training camp in 18-19, so what do you do with a veteran team that sits at the bottom of the league at least half way through? This is the Kings in 2018, not 2015. This is an 18-19 bottom 5 team half way through the year after 14-15, 15-16, 16-17, and 17-18. A yearly thing where they just don't have enough of anything. This isn't the Blues, who hired a failed coach as their savior that year. They kept Doughty. They added Kovalchuk. Wanted to bring in other guys. To keep trying to be competitive. Then it all fell apart. What do you do? Fire the GM who didn't build the team? I thought Stevens was able to bring out some offense, and he was the player friendly coach that the players were constantly crying about, but then, of course, the players on this team that have let down a couple GMs continued to do so.

 

[King'sPawn]

Peter Chiarelli with Boston, won the cup in 2011 fired in 2015.

That's still a longer rope than Lombardi, who won 2 in three years (most recently in 2014) and fired in 2017 - three years later.

 

[crassbonanza]

Maybe because I’m tired of reading the same old shit and uninformed whining for the past however many pages? It’s been like this since the latter half of the season.

People are complaining about a rebuild that isn’t even complete, before the offseason has even started. As if this is the exact same team we’ll be seeing on the ice come October. I guess it’s your choice if you want to remain ignorant.

Jeff Carter’s success appears to be causing some Kings fans to lose their minds.

So I am ignorant and uninformed for having an opinion that is different than yours? Is that seriously your level of discourse?

You are acting like all rebuilds are the same, that the moves throughout them play no role in the outcome. People can absolutely criticize the rebuild during the rebuild. Blake is not a genius who has shown the ability to build a winner, so he is not above reproach.

 

[Mats26]

Ive never seen a GM get so much hate for forming at top 3 prospect pool.

Im 50/50 if Blake is the correct GM for this team. But the hatred for him from what he did here as a player is amazing how people still hold onto this.

And that’s what this is, go back to the board discussions about getting his number retired and you’ll see. A lot of people still hate him and that’s all the see as him as a GM.

Every GM in the league has a reputation. Blake is building his legacy now. Even after the Kovy disaster I still think he deserves some credit for adding some NCAA talent. I don't hate the guy, my only issue and question is why the core of a 2 time NHL stanley cup team fell apart. Can he answer that? He was in management with DL during that time, and is now at the helm. Will he repeat those mistakes. I hope not.

We were all led to believe the players were are old and slow...really? The facts don't add up. So what is the problem to question if this rebuild will be built on the right foundation.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I don't think anything Blake has done so far deserves all that much credit.

It is just so simple to rebuild. You sell off older assets for futures, intentionally tank and draft high and often.

The next part is the trick let's see if he identifies the right prospects and pieces to trade, brings in good players, avoids long term bad contracts that hurt us in the future, Holds onto and develops the right prospects into key players, and most importantly he is able to turn 5 years of drafting high and often into a long-term very good team.

Well if he can do that then hats off to him, he would be a very good gm. Jury is still out obviously.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So I am ignorant and uninformed for having an opinion that is different than yours? Is that seriously your level of discourse?

You are acting like all rebuilds are the same, that the moves throughout them play no role in the outcome. People can absolutely criticize the rebuild during the rebuild. Blake is not a genius who has shown the ability to build a winner, so he is not above reproach.

I’m calling anyone who is complaining about the Kings moving players during a rebuild ignorant, like the one poster who loves to talk in circles.

You seem to be unaware that in order for the Kings to end up with high end talent, they have to do poorly in order to be in such a position to draft those players.

Or do you prefer the same results from 2015 onwards?

 

[crassbonanza]

I’m calling anyone who is complaining about the Kings moving players during a rebuild ignorant, like the one poster who loves to talk in circles.

You seem to be unaware that in order for the Kings to end up with high end talent, they have to do poorly in order to be in such a position to draft those players.

Or do you prefer the same results from 2015 onwards?

So you lack any nuance and call anyone that doesn't see things in the same black and white lens ignorant?

Damn near everyone understand the suck for high draft picks method. This isn't some revolutionary concept, it's been around since the outset of the reverse order draft. The pens have done it twice in very overt fashion. Sabres fans were famously cheering losses going into the McDavid draft. Shit the Habs made trades to ensure the Seals were the worst team because they owned their first rounder.

Half the teams in this league are in some sort of rebuild at any given point. Most don't work out and a big factor is the steps taken during that rebuild. Your entire argument seems to be that all that a team needs to do is suck for a few years and then they will win a cup. I just dont agree. The moves made now are absolutely going to affect the future of this franchise.

 

[tomd]

Anaheim Ducks? Getzlaf, Rakell, Silverberg, Henrique, Gibson, Manson.

Except that the Ducks have only traded Ritchie, Kase, and Montour which is better termed as "retooling". All 3 of those guys were easily replaced. And they got pretty decent returns on those 3 players...above market for Kase and Montour.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

So you lack any nuance and call anyone that doesn't see things in the same black and white lens ignorant?

Damn near everyone understand the suck for high draft picks method. This isn't some revolutionary concept, it's been around since the outset of the reverse order draft. The pens have done it twice in very overt fashion. Sabres fans were famously cheering losses going into the McDavid draft. Shit the Habs made trades to ensure the Seals were the worst team because they owned their first rounder.

Half the teams in this league are in some sort of rebuild at any given point. Most don't work out and a big factor is the steps taken during that rebuild. Your entire argument seems to be that all that a team needs to do is suck for a few years and then they will win a cup. I just dont agree. The moves made now are absolutely going to affect the future of this franchise.

What point are you trying to make here? The Kings shouldn’t have traded Muzzin, Martinez, Clifford, Campbell, Toffoli, and Carter?

Or the Kings missed out on difference maker Chandler Stephenson?

 

[Schmooley]

Except that the Ducks have only traded Ritchie, Kase, and Montour which is better termed as "retooling". All 3 of those guys were easily replaced. And they got pretty decent returns on those 3 players...above market for Kase and Montour.

They retooled themselves into last place.

 

[crassbonanza]

What point are you trying to make here? The Kings shouldn’t have traded Muzzin, Martinez, Clifford, Campbell, Toffoli, and Carter?

Or the Kings missed out on difference maker Chandler Stephenson?

My point was that you didn't need to spend 3 paragraphs hurling insults at people because they had the audacity of questioning Blake's moves. It was a pointless comment. I think it's fair for some people to be wondering why the Kings have two of the top 11 highest cap hits in the league, yet the team has been lifeless for the past 3 seasons. This is compounded by all of the depth pieces you mentioned above flourishing with their new teams. Sucking for prospects is fine, but the product is currently abysmal. We are in danger of sinking into that losing culture that has taken over in Buffalo, the team basically gave up in half of the games this season.

My opinion on Blake has really soured this season and I think it is fair to question some of his moves. He has done a great job at drafting players who are considered high end and that is very exciting, but other than that he has not shown much success(again in my opinion). We are in the middle of a rebuild, but like I said earlier there is more to a rebuild than just sucking for a few years.

 

[tomd]

They retooled themselves into last place.

That happens. They lost their core (Getzlaf/Perry/Kesler/Eaves) due to a combination of age and injury. And if they rebuild now I have no problem with that...they have no $10 million players on multi-year contracts who just happen to be the best players on the team. They'll find their way.