Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster discussion

[DryIslandBartender]

Don’t idolize him. He made enough mistakes.

Lucic, Sekera, Gaborik contract, Teubert, calling how Pittsburgh winning a ‘flash in the pan’, not buying out Richards, not trading Stoll/Williams when they were UFA, Cloutier, holding onto Sutter, Smyth, Bishop (bye bye Czernak). Many more.

It’s easy to look at the past with rose coloured glasses. This GM had a focus that was outdated in the modern NHL and married his players/Sutter.

Let it go.

No GM is perfect, but the fact is that the Kings best era was under DL for 11 years he had compiled a 425-339-104 record, 6 playoff appearances, 3 WCF appearances, 2 Campbell Bowl trophies, 2 Stanley Cups and his players collected all kinds of hardware.

It’s unfortunate but this current management is under zero scrutiny with their zero playoff wins, especially after saying they were cup contenders from the get go. Still slow, still can’t score.

 

[Mattias]

Don't care. Collateral damage and more than worth it.

Absolutely. We had three glorious years and nothing will take that away. But cannot say Dean was this perfect specimen who earned a lifetime contract.

I could have seen more time if Sutter was fired after he was locked out. However, Dean held to his value and it was a reason he was let go.

 

[Mattias]

No GM is perfect, but the fact is that the Kings best era was under DL for 11 years he had compiled a 425-339-104 record, 6 playoff appearances, 3 WCF appearances, 2 Campbell Bowl trophies, 2 Stanley Cups and his players collected all kinds of hardware.

It’s unfortunate but this current management is under zero scrutiny with their zero playoff wins, especially after saying they were cup contenders from the get go. Still slow, still can’t score.

Under zero scrutiny? What makes you say that? Are you 100% sure ownership is not discussing with Blake changes that need to be made? I feel all of us have zero insight to the upper level discussions being made.

DL inherited Kopitar and Quick. Doughty was a no brainer at 2. Hardware was all of them, with the exception of Williams. Credit where it’s due, that was a great trade. Keep in mind Dean focused on players who were grinders and we had plenty of problems scoring for his tenureship.

Blake saying we were cup contenders was (select all that apply):
A. Delusional thinking
B. Pandering to season ticket holders to renew sales.
C. Wanting to make a good first impression.
D. Core belief as the team won the cup in 2014.

The wheels fell off. 2 years of 5/2 draft picks and neither are in the NHL yet. Might be 2-3 years more.

 

[FSL KINGS]

No GM is perfect, but the fact is that the Kings best era was under DL for 11 years he had compiled a 425-339-104 record, 6 playoff appearances, 3 WCF appearances, 2 Campbell Bowl trophies, 2 Stanley Cups and his players collected all kinds of hardware.

It’s unfortunate but this current management is under zero scrutiny with their zero playoff wins, especially after saying they were cup contenders from the get go. Still slow, still can’t score.

The Kings are in a rebuild because of Lombardi. Good run, but we are paying for it now.

Speaking of rebuilds, Kings were rumored to be looking at players with 2-3 years on their contracts. Wonder if grabbing an Eriksson 1 year, Lucic 2 year, Neal 2 years could add some extra assets. Might as well utilize the extra cap. Sutter won't want to part with Lucic though.

 

[tomd]

The Kings are in a rebuild because of Lombardi. Good run, but we are paying for it now.

Speaking of rebuilds, Kings were rumored to be looking at players with 2-3 years on their contracts. Wonder if grabbing an Eriksson 1 year, Lucic 2 year, Neal 2 years could add some extra assets. Might as well utilize the extra cap. Sutter won't want to part with Lucic though.

I think you missed the part where they were trying to make the team better by looking at players with 2-3 years on their contracts...

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Under zero scrutiny? What makes you say that? Are you 100% sure ownership is not discussing with Blake changes that need to be made? I feel all of us have zero insight to the upper level discussions being made.

AEG had said they fired DL because of the high standard he (DL) set by winning. If you watch the press conference by Cheesman, Luc, Blake. They all said they were cup contenders and we needed to approach the team differently. There was zero talk of a rebuild. None.

Yet it’s been a few years now and zero playoff wins. This current management team skates by with no criticism of the team’s performance. None from the press.

DL inherited Kopitar and Quick. Doughty was a no brainer at 2. Hardware was all of them, with the exception of Williams. Credit where it’s due, that was a great trade. Keep in mind Dean focused on players who were grinders and we had plenty of problems scoring for his tenureship.

DL always gave Taylor and Murray credit for drafting those two. However, DL did overhaul the development staff and also made it a priority to revamp the training facilities. He was hardcore about all of that, and Quick had to learn pretty quickly about training and showing up on time. He was known to be late and not into practice. Ranford had to visit him to get him on track. Same with Kopitar and his development under Terry Murray.

DL focused on goaltending, defense, culture etc. Scoring you can always add.

Blake saying we were cup contenders was (select all that apply):
A. Delusional thinking
B. Pandering to season ticket holders to renew sales.
C. Wanting to make a good first impression.
D. Core belief as the team won the cup in 2014.

First impression was to lie to the fan base? I don’t think so. They really were convinced they had the answers to make this a cup contending team. Just make it more player friendly environment with a coach that tells the players nice things etc.

Further evidence as to why there was no rebuild for 2-3 seasons.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

The Kings are in a rebuild because of Lombardi. Good run, but we are paying for it now.

Speaking of rebuilds, Kings were rumored to be looking at players with 2-3 years on their contracts. Wonder if grabbing an Eriksson 1 year, Lucic 2 year, Neal 2 years could add some extra assets. Might as well utilize the extra cap. Sutter won't want to part with Lucic though.

It wasn’t until 2-3 seasons after DL was canned, was there a rebuild. Obviously, current management thought the roster they were left with was good enough to compete for a cup.

 

[FSL KINGS]

It wasn’t until 2-3 seasons after DL was canned, was there a rebuild. Obviously, current management thought the roster they were left with was good enough to compete for a cup.

Patching the team up & giving the playoffs another shot was the correct move before tearing everything down. Didn't work out.

Trading futures has a delayed impact on the roster. The effects are being felt now that the Kings need replacements to take over. There is a gap between Kopitar & Brown, Byfield & Vilardi.

 

[FSL KINGS]

I think you missed the part where they were trying to make the team better by looking at players with 2-3 years on their contracts...

There are different levels of improving. Got the feeling that the target is now average players who are available cheap because of their contracts. If the Kings are in a 2-3 year waiting period for prospects to develop, taking on bad contracts should be considered.

 

[tomd]

There are different levels of improving. Got the feeling that the target is now average players who are available cheap because of their contracts. If the Kings are in a 2-3 year waiting period for prospects to develop, taking on bad contracts should be considered.

Is that at all consistent with what Doughty, Blake, and Luc have all said within the past 30 days?

 

[BigBrown]

This again?

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Patching the team up & giving the playoffs another shot was the correct move before tearing everything down. Didn't work out.

Trading futures has a delayed impact on the roster. The effects are being felt now that the Kings need replacements to take over. There is a gap between Kopitar & Brown, Byfield & Vilardi.

They gave it multiple shots, the wheels didn’t fall off until year 2, 13 games in when they canned Stevens.

 

[Mattias]

This again?

 

[Herby]

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Almost everything said is true.

Lombardi changed a lot of things around with the Kings and rebuilt the foundation of the franchise, something Taylor never seemed to bother doing. DT just drafted the highest CSB players, collected a bunch prospects and never built anything around them (sound familiar?)

Lombardi was blessed to inherit Kopitar and Quick, especially Kopitar because adding high end forwards has always been a weakness going back to his SJ days. It's not an unfair statement to say the Kings don't win anything without Kopitar. It's also not unfair to say they don't win it without the trades made by Dean. Lombardi added all the right pieces to what he inherited and built a winner, largely on the backs of some of the best trades any Kings GM has ever made. That is why I just get so baffled when people are so against making trades of any kind and would rather just hoard young players. Lombardi's 2011 to 2014 was about as good as it gets in the entire league, and without question was the best for a Kings GM.

After that it was a disaster, no sugar coating it, June 2014 to the firing was the polar opposite of 2011 to February 2014, IMO it was even worse than the McMaster era, which previously had been the benchmark for ineptness by a GM. I know people still say they wished he had a chance to rebuild things and blame Luc for stabbing him in the back, but it was just going to be tough to justify sticking with him after what had happened the previous 3 seasons. He had completely lost the ability to evaluate this roster and correctly make the moves needed to rebuild it.

 

[LAKings88]

For me it started with the Lucic trade. Heck even Sekera. He was looking at short term fixes on two guys that were not going to resign.

A Barzel or Conner would have been huge additions. Who knows for sure if they would have been developed correctly tho.

Cernak for Bishop was another bad trade.

 

[bland]

Kopitar was a player for certain, but its disingenuous to say Lombardi inherited Quick. Lombardi assembled an infrastructure that included proper goaltending coaching that made Quick into a NHL goalie. That very easily could have gone in a different direction. Quick was highly competitive but very immature kid who had to be focused anf polished. Nobody - nobody - had him projected where he ended up. That took a lot of work from very competent people.​

 

[Docgonzo]

This discussion has been had many times but like Herby said, up to the 2nd cup DL did almost everything right from 2010 till then. Then the wheels fell completely off and DL tried to fix the wheels with pie charts and talk of the Yankees.

The pool party in Vegas post cup, players caught with drugs.

Voynov situation and having him come back to practice.

Throwing away 1sts like candy and not restocking the farm system.

Long term contract for Gaborik who never stayed healthy his whole career.

The disastrous 2015 draft/Lucic trade which set the franchise back. Then offering Lucic a long term contract.

Cernak for like 10 games of Bishop then offering Bishop a contract when you have Quick locked up.

Stripping Brown of the C and somehow putting the blame on him.

Not buying out Richards or trading vets who weren’t re-signing.

DL sadly made one mistake after another chasing immediate glory rather than taking a step back regrouping and trying again.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

I know people still say they wished he had a chance to rebuild things and blame Luc for stabbing him in the back, but it was just going to be tough to justify sticking with him after what had happened the previous 3 seasons. He had completely lost the ability to evaluate this roster and correctly make the moves needed to rebuild it.

It didn’t make sense to me to replace DL (his years of experience that he had) with someone (Luc) that had no experience in evaluating rosters, scouting etc and having Blake (assistant GM to DL) hold his hand. Could have went with another savvy scout/former gm type that knows what he is doing.

But we all know what happened here with the changes in management. There’s no other way this happens.

The other thing is, DL gets roasted for his post 2014 moves on here, but the current regime was doing the same thing when they took over. Nobody criticizes Bluc and this is one of the worst stretches of Kings hockey in it’s history and that’s saying something.

 

[Jason Squirties]

This again?

No shit, right? It's exhausting to read, how one can expend the time to reiterate what they've already 10k times is beyond me.

 

[RaymondReddington]

I'd say they are the best example. A bunch of old guys leading the team, a lot of secondary and complimentary players, with a couple young guys mixed in. As long as you don't play a real team, you can make a 2nd or 3rd rd run if you just get in. Which is all Doughty wants. Get in, play 5 games, play 9 games, whatever it would be, and come back next year. That's what most teams are. It's unlikely the Kings will be a real contender again, no matter what they build with, no matter who is building the team, so, just whatever. Bring in some guys, win a playoff game or two. There's too much luck involved in becoming a true contender. You need great contracts. You have to completely win on a trade or two. You need youthful and cheap production. You need old guys that will play a role.

...or you need to creatively circumvent the Cap...
...or you need the league to coddle you and not make you build your team the way everyone else has had to / does...

 

[Reclamation Project]

Biggest problem - multiple coaches and GMs and the offense is still among the worst in the league. Nearly 20 years it's been complete trash. Last season was nearly unwatchable, especially during the final 20 games. Kopitar should have 1250+ points by now.

 

[Herby]

It didn’t make sense to me to replace DL (his years of experience that he had) with someone (Luc) that had no experience in evaluating rosters, scouting etc and having Blake (assistant GM to DL) hold his hand. Could have went with another savvy scout/former gm type that knows what he is doing.

But we all know what happened here with the changes in management. There’s no other way this happens.

The other thing is, DL gets roasted for his post 2014 moves on here, but the current regime was doing the same thing when they took over. Nobody criticizes Bluc and this is one of the worst stretches of Kings hockey in it’s history and that’s saying something.

Plenty of people have criticized Blake and Luc. And no argument that they shouldn't have been the ones to replace Lombardi. The Kings promoting Blake and Stevens to replace Lombardi and Sutter was beyond idiotic, the entire organization from Lombardi to the equipment manager should have been fired and replaced with people who weren't married to the players.

 

[BigKing]

Blake initially failed. He's been given a mulligan since they are rebuilding and the results aren't in yet.

Firing DL so the new guy can keep all the same people and then add to it with a bust of a UFA signing is truly visionary.

If you think DL had to go then that's your opinion and their are valid reasons. It's hard to argue firing him though if the idea is to keep everyone else from the players to the popcorn vendors. That's why many of us feel it was a Luc power grab since firing DL opened up two positions.

 

[BigKing]

No shit, right? It's exhausting to read, how one can expend the time to reiterate what they've already 10k times is beyond me.

We have staffs that do it for us

 

[Herby]

For me it started with the Lucic trade. He’ll even Sekera. He was looking at short term fixes on two guys that were not going to resign.

A Barzel or Conner would have been huge additions. Who knows for sure if they would have been developed correctly tho.

Cernak for Bishop was another bad trade.

Not buying out Mike Richards after the 2014 season was the beginning of it, I've been a fan of this team for a long time and I can't think of a more ridiculous decision made by a Kings GM. I think it did a large amount of damage to the culture because it proved the Kings were no longer a meritocracy. Simply shocking how anyone could have watched that guy play hockey in 2014 and think it was a good idea to commit to that contract.

The other moves are the only reason I gave Blake a bit of a leash, there was almost no U-25 talent on the roster or in the system when Blake took over.

Between 2011 and 2016 the Kings drafts produced a respectable amount of quantity but very little quality outside of Pearson and Roy. The best player they drafted was traded for a rental backup goalie, the best pick they had was traded for a declining rental winger. Just tough to build a quality roster when you add so little over a 6 draft period.

The talent in the organization in 2006 vs. 2017 was yin and yang.