Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

[King'sPawn]

In all fairness though, isn't that the usual pattern when trying to integrate prospects? There are good arguments to not have them immediately playing in top lines as well...

Wasn't Vilardi given the opportunity to be the 2nd-line center last year but kinda flopped? And then the argument was, 'oh, well he needs to play wing'. Kaliyev has had plenty of opportunities this season to prove he belongs in the top 6, and he hasn't made very good on them.

I'm pissed at the Kings right now, but not buying what you're selling.

Vilardi had 7 points in 10 games then struggled last season. Struggling is normal.

Kaliyev has had fluctuating minutes on the top powerplay unit, but aside from game 1, special teams is embarrassing at best. He's had virtually zero top-6 ice time. How can he prove he belongs when he is at the BOTTOM of 5-on-5 ice time?

You don't have to buy what I'm selling. You can instead buy what the Kings are selling for the future. If you're not discouraged by the lack of top-end offendive talent developed over the past 15 years, then feel free to keep buying it.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Vilardi had 7 points in 10 games then struggled last season. Struggling is normal.

Kaliyev has had fluctuating minutes on the top powerplay unit, but aside from game 1, special teams is embarrassing at best. He's had virtually zero top-6 ice time. How can he prove he belongs when he is at the BOTTOM of 5-on-5 ice time?

You don't have to buy what I'm selling. You can instead buy what the Kings are selling for the future. If you're not discouraged by the lack of top-end offendive talent developed over the past 15 years, then feel free to keep buying it.

It's called the 'eye-test', I watch the games. Regardless of what line Kaliyev has been on, he's had A LOT of glorious chances to show his ability to put the puck in the net an has NOT done it. Don't take me as a hater...out of all the prospects, I was most excited to see him. I still believe he'll be fine...but he's still a kid and it's just going to take time to get that confidence.

 

[King'sPawn]

It's called the 'eye-test', I watch the games. Regardless of what line Kaliyev has been on, he's had A LOT of glorious chances to show his ability to put the puck in the net an has NOT done it. Don't take me as a hater...out of all the prospects, I was most excited to see him. I still believe he'll be fine...but he's still a kid and it's just going to take time to get that confidence.

I know what the 'eye-test' is. You're just drawing conclusions of ineffectiveness rather than seeing opportunities of growth and development.

Kaliyev was in the right spot for those whiffs. He didn't capitalize. I'd rather have a player get the wrong result from doing the right thing than punishing him for not getting the right result fast enough. Putting him on the bottom line and further neutering where he's strongest is not going to build that confidence. You're just going to give a sniper fewer opportunities to score and fewer opportunities for linemates to set him up.

I don't think you're a hater. I just think you're application of the eye-test is focusing more on the immediate results than the long term opportunity for growth.

 

[Fishhead]

In all fairness though, isn't that the usual pattern when trying to integrate prospects? There are good arguments to not have them immediately playing in top lines as well...

Wasn't Vilardi given the opportunity to be the 2nd-line center last year but kinda flopped? And then the argument was, 'oh, well he needs to play wing'. Kaliyev has had plenty of opportunities this season to prove he belongs in the top 6, and he hasn't made very good on them.

I'm pissed at the Kings right now, but not buying what you're selling.

I'm a huge Vilardi guy as anyone and he was absolutely given the 2c opportunity and kind of blew it. I've always thought of him as an ideal winger and isn't necessarily a center, but he absolutely had top-6 opportunities and prime PP time. He surprised me as a C in preseason, but it obviously didn't carry over. I think after he settles in at wing he's going to be damn effective.

Arthur was also given opportunities early, playing with Vilardi most of the time. Then he was put with Danault and Iafallo for a game, then Kupari and Moore. Vilardi was seeing tough assignments (and of course the Danault line does) so he was getting exposed. Once he hit the 4th line he really settled in. It doesn't mean he's going to stay there, and I would argue he's looked way better with them. We all knew when he was drafted he was poor defensively. In my eyes he's made great strides, and whatever they are doing with him is working.

I think we just get so caught up in wanting these guys to do well. Kaliyev has been a sniper, so we want to put him in a top 6 spot so he can use his strength. We overlook all the shortcomings and just focus on his shooting. Well, coaches won't do that, and it was obvious he was out of his league. He's learned tons on the 4th line and it will ultimately help his all around game in the future. It was the right move and he's improving.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Vilardi had 7 points in 10 games then struggled last season. Struggling is normal.

Kaliyev has had fluctuating minutes on the top powerplay unit, but aside from game 1, special teams is embarrassing at best. He's had virtually zero top-6 ice time. How can he prove he belongs when he is at the BOTTOM of 5-on-5 ice time?

You don't have to buy what I'm selling. You can instead buy what the Kings are selling for the future. If you're not discouraged by the lack of top-end offendive talent developed over the past 15 years, then feel free to keep buying it.

Now that I think about, let’s touch on Vilardi too… the dude looked like a beast in the preseason, then the real games start and he turns into bum. But that’s the fault of the organization? Get outta here, man.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Agreed, but I'd argue he's only been ineffective the last 8 games or so, and as he's prone to annual slumps, I'm going to need more time before making a broad judgement. Being a PPG player while going through a slump AND being tied to the Brown boat anchor the majority of the year isn't too bad. Kopi isn't good enough to elevate Brown, that might be an impossible task

Not even SpaceX could elevate current Brown.

In all fairness though, isn't that the usual pattern when trying to integrate prospects? There are good arguments to not have them immediately playing in top lines as well...

Wasn't Vilardi given the opportunity to be the 2nd-line center last year but kinda flopped? And then the argument was, 'oh, well he needs to play wing'. Kaliyev has had plenty of opportunities this season to prove he belongs in the top 6, and he hasn't made very good on them.

I'm pissed at the Kings right now, but not buying what you're selling.

Yes, the good arguments to not have them immediately play top line are so that they're insulated; the Kings have said they kept the vets for exactly that reason, but it's not happening. You can insulate a kid by having him take some shifts next to Kopitar/Danault but those spots are currently saved for failing vets. You don't want an Edmonton situation where "Hey congrats on being drafted RNH you're now our 1C!", but imagine putting him next to Anze.

To tie this to Vilardi, as well--similarly, this year, the idea was to bring Danault to do the heavy lifting to free up kopitar AND break the kids in; well, Kopitar is STILL playing 25 hard minutes a game, and Vilardi was playing harder matchups/deployment than EITHER of them to start the year. And like, permanently, not as a trial/to learn hard stuff. I mean, what the f***? And last year, as 2C--he was given the Danault role and asked mostly to play with AA who was the biggest liability on the roster, a Jeff carter who didn't give a shit, an enigma Kempe, sometimes Moore. Did he kind of flop? Sure. Did we have heavy expectations and no way out? Also yes. THAT was more akin to a Edmonton situation, we let him get crushed all year instead of insulated like he could be this year...and now that we have the structures/support we bury him and then send him down like we're giving up on him instead of playing him to his strengths. Why does everyone have to be a defensive C/PKer?

You can 'not buy' whatever, this shit is maddening. It's not ALL on EVERY SINGLE PROSPECT if they're all failing. If it were just Vilardi, it would be one thing--but it's basically everyone under 23 WHILE guys like Brown and Maatta are constantly giving up 2 goals against for every 1 for.

 

[King'sPawn]

Now that I think about, let’s touch on Vilardi too… the dude looked like a beast in the preseason, then the real games start and he turns into bum. But that’s the fault of the organization? Get outta here, man.

So the lack of producing top end forwards is because the scouts suck?

You are criticizing the criticisms. That's fine. The problem is, that means you either think the organization is doing a good job with developing forwards or there's something else that is stopping them. So which is it?
- Do you count on the organization to develop and produce top-six forward talents? If yes, based on what evidence?
- Do you think there's a problem within the organization to draft and develop top-six forward talents? If yes, then where?

 

[cyclones22]

Part of my growing frustration is the fact that the most exciting part about the King's organization is the youth. And I am terrified that these guys are going to ruin the best and deepest crop of prospects that we've seen in the organization in ages. That we're going to look back in five years and say wow that crop was overrated. Somehow we missed on 20 prospects and came away with zero first liners and first pairing defensemen.

If something disastrous like that happens it won't be because the players are overrated. It will be because the Kings didn't develop them correctly. The gold standard of breaking in top prospects IMO was when the Avalanche brought up Chris Drury, Milan Hejduk and Alex Tanguay. They didn't throw those guys on the checking lines and say go get em! They lined them up with Forsberg and Sakic. We don't have that kind of talent for our top prospects to play with. But you can't tell me that they would not benefit playing with Kopitar and Danault.

 

[King'sPawn]

Now that I think about, let’s touch on Vilardi too… the dude looked like a beast in the preseason, then the real games start and he turns into bum. But that’s the fault of the organization? Get outta here, man.

I will add, prospects have ups and downs. They have slumps. It comes with the territory of growing. I'm not saying Vilardi's slump to start the season is by fault of the organization. But how they handle him afterwards and deal with it IS.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I mean, Gabe played 7 freaking games.

For all the people that want to minimize his 7 points in 10 games, you ALSO have to minimize the 7 game stretch too. People are putting WAY too much stock in his struggles here and using that as why he can't get back in the lineup while ignoring upside/positives altogether.

 

[cyclones22]

Yeah remember what happened when TMc put Vliardi and Iafallo on the same line at the end of last season? All of a sudden Gabe starts producing again.

And by the way it is totally fine that Gabe isn't a line driver. Or someone that can lead a line. Not every player needs to be that type of player.

 

[Fishhead]

Part of my growing frustration is the fact that the most exciting part about the King's organization is the youth. And I am terrified that these guys are going to ruin the best and deepest crop of prospects that we've seen in the organization in ages. That we're going to look back in five years and say wow that crop was overrated. Somehow we missed on 20 prospects and came away with zero first liners and first pairing defensemen.

If something disastrous like that happens it won't be because the players are overrated. It will be because the Kings didn't develop them correctly. The gold standard of breaking in top prospects IMO was when the Avalanche brought up Chris Drury, Milan Hejduk and Alex Tanguay. They didn't throw those guys on the checking lines and say go get em! They lined them up with Forsberg and Sakic. We don't have that kind of talent for our top prospects to play with. But you can't tell me that they would not benefit playing with Kopitar and Danault.

That's because it's a completely different situation. If the Kings did what the Avs did, Arty, Kupari, etc. wouldn't even be on the roster.

The Avalanche didn't particularly develop Drury, he played 4 years in college, won the hobey baker, and was 22 before he stepped on NHL ice. Hejduk was 23 and playing in the EL before he made his debut. Tanguay was the only one that was young and was a 12th overall pick. You are also comparing to an absolutely stacked pre-cap team with few weaknesses. It's not the same thing, they weren't going to lose no matter who they put with their top guys.

And if our players were as good as Drury/Hejduk/Tanguay when they first broke in I'd totally agree. But they are not. We only have a few guys with that pedigree/level and those are Byfield, Turcotte, and Clarke.

 

[Fishhead]

I mean, Gabe played 7 freaking games.

For all the people that want to minimize his 7 points in 10 games, you ALSO have to minimize the 7 game stretch too. People are putting WAY too much stock in his struggles here and using that as why he can't get back in the lineup while ignoring upside/positives altogether.

Vilardi is absolutely a f***-up by the Kings. He needed to go down, but lets see if they stick to moving to wing like was obvious from the beginning.

 

[Schrute farms]

Gabe + Lias was fantastic in preseason. Lias gets hurt just before the season starts. Now Gabe struggles and sent down. How many regular season games did we get of Lias+Gabe? Blows my mind they never got a chance to get the band together for any significant time and see if that magic was still there.

 

[eleventy]

Gabe + Lias was fantastic in preseason. Lias gets hurt just before the season starts. Now Gabe struggles and sent down. How many regular season games did we get of Lias+Gabe? Blows my mind they never got a chance to get the band together for any significant time and see if that magic was still there.

The pre-season fun line was Tkachev+Lias+Gabe too

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Oh and lest I forget, since this is related to Kings. I rated Lias Andersson's upside as a good third liner and had him ranked 7th...in Europe. He went 7th overall. That being said, Andersson always at least had a ballsy component to his game even as a prospect, the pace and skating were just never there and I think despite the odd flashy moment, his skill game is/was overrated. Think he went 7th overall because he seemed like a ballsy competitor and thats like catnip for NA scouts, dont know how you can justify a top 10 pick on Andersson based on his actual upside.

I did like Bjornfot and I think that was a reasonable pick. I think he has a little more offense than he has shown so far too.

Thanks for your insights, all appreciated.
This board did a King Prospect Poll in September, for all King current prospects. It is difficult at best, to rank them in such a poll, being that they are all on various paths in ages and leagues.
The following were the final poll rankings. Would you care to make any comments? Even if one sentence responses to any on the list?
And further, do your own ranking of even the top 10 in the system. As of today. We all would appreciate it and also fine if you pass.
I visited your site and enjoyed it. Bookmarked it.


These were the results:
Rank. Name, Pos (%), change from last year

1. Quinton Byfield, F (98.6%), +0
2. Brandt Clarke, D (43.3%), NR
3. Alex Turcotte, F (69.9%), +0
4. Arthur Kaliyev, F (94.1%), +1
5. Brock Faber, D (44.6%), +9
6. Rasmus Kupari, F (67.1%), +3
7. Akil Thomas, F (35.4%), +4
8. Samuel Fagemo, F (47.5%), -2
9. Tyler Madden, F (65.9%), -1
10. Francesco Pinelli, F (34.2%), NR
11. Helge Grans, D (48.8%), -1
12. Kale Clague, D (29.0%), +0
13. Martin Chromiak, F (39.4%), +8
14. Kirill Kirsanov, D (34.3%), NR
15. Kim Nousiainen, D (20.6%), +0
16. Jordan Spence, D (31.3%), +1
17. Samuel Helenius, F (47.5%), NR
18. Jacob Moverare, D (37.3%), +4
19. Vladimir Tkachev, F (44.9%), NR
20. Kasper Simontaival, F (60.7%), -2
21. Lukas Parik, G (30.6%, tiebreaker), -1
22. Austin Strand, D (53.3%), +8
23. Alex Laferriere, F (33.9%), +2
24. Andre Lee, F (42.5%), +5
25. Sean Durzi, D (40.4%), -2
26. Jacob Ingham, G (30.0%, tiebreaker), -2
27. Aatu Jamsen, F (40.5%), -1
28. Ben Meehan, D (37.5%), +0
29. Aidan Dudas, F (28.1%, tiebreaker), -10
30. Johan Sodergran, F (29.5%), +4
31. Juho Markkanen, G (28.0%), +0
32. David Hrenak, G (46.2%), +4
33. Braden Doyle, D (58.1%), +2
34. Bulat Shafigullin, F (51.9%), -1
35. Brayden Burke, F (33.3%), NR
36. Matthew Villalta, G (44.0%), -9
37. Markus Phillips, D (57.7%), +1
38. Alexander Dergachyov, F (100%), +1

 

[FSL KINGS]

Mayor's notes on AHL recall.
"Confirmed… it will be Tynan"

Update to Morning Report: More Details on Athanasiou and Plans for Byfield

 

[Choralone]

Looking back from the 2014 to 2019 drafts, I think we've been ok. I have to dig it up, but we're one of the better NHL teams in turning picks into players.

I guess the argument is that we can only churn out meat-and-potatoes players. But as my coach always said, you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. If you want talent, you have to draft it - generally in the first round. After Kempe in 2014, we haven't had any first-round picks until Vilardi in 2017 . Note that 3 out of our 4 top draft picks between 2017 and 2018 lost significant time to injury which has delayed development. Add seasons truncated by COVID and picks made under Blake's reign are just bearing fruit.

So am I arguing our development staff is the right one for the job? No - I'm saying we really don't know yet, but we're about to find out.

[TABLE="class: brtb_item_table"][TBODY][TR][TD]Year[/TD][TD]Picks[/TD][TD]Notable Players[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2014[/TD][TD] 1 2 2 3 4 5 6 6 7 7 [/TD][TD] 1-Adrian Kempe, 3-Michael Amadio[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2015[/TD][TD] 2 3 4 5 7 7 [/TD][TD] 2-Erik Cernak, 4-Austin Wagner, 7-Matt Roy[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2016[/TD][TD] 2 4 5 7[/TD][TD] 2-Kale Clague[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2017[/TD][TD] 1 2 3 4 4 5 5[/TD][TD] 1-Gabriel Vilardi, 2-Jaret Anderson-Dolan, 4-Mikey Anderson[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2018[/TD][TD] 1 2 3 4 5 6 6[/TD][TD] 1-Rasmus Kupari, 2-Akil Thomas[/TD][/TR]
[TR][TD] 2019[/TD][TD] 1 1 2 2 3 4 4 6[/TD][TD] 1-Alex Turcotte, 1-Tobias Björnfot, 2-Arthur Kaliyev[/TD][/TR][/TBODY][/TABLE]

 

[Fishhead]

Gabe + Lias was fantastic in preseason. Lias gets hurt just before the season starts. Now Gabe struggles and sent down. How many regular season games did we get of Lias+Gabe? Blows my mind they never got a chance to get the band together for any significant time and see if that magic was still there.

I'd love to see if those 3 were actually good together or if it was just crappy competition. It's going to take some injuries/protocol for that to happen, I think.

 

[KINGS17]

I am filing out an application now. Can I use you as a reference?

Can you just hop in your A-10 instead and strafe the front office?

 

[KingsHockey24]

Mayor's notes on AHL recall.
"Confirmed… it will be Tynan"

Update to Morning Report: More Details on Athanasiou and Plans for Byfield

 

[KINGS17]

The Kings need the equivalent of this as their GM right now.

"I'm just saying, you can't start Kopitar at center tonight. You'll have to start Byfield." (when he returns)

"Oh and Doughty, he's gone too."

 

[kingsholygrail]

The Kings need the equivalent of this as their GM right now.

"I'm just saying, you can't start Kopitar at center tonight. You'll have to start Byfield." (when he returns)

"Oh and Doughty, he's gone too."

lol I was watching that last night.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Here's a fun fact.

WHAT IS ROWAN ATKINSON IQ SCORE? IS MR. BEAN REALLY STUPID?

 

[KINGS17]

lol I was watching that last night.

"I can do this all day Todd."