Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

[KingsFan7824]

huge difference between a team challenging for a cup and one in the middle of a very public rebuild

comparing the sutter cup era kings to the current team is dishonest

do I need to show you how other teams in similar situations are using their youth again or was twice enough

So why bring up Jordan Weal's name if you can't compare the two situations?

Show me another team that brought in or kept 3 forwards playing in the top 6, along with 2/3 other more veteran holdovers, who are playing their young F prospects a lot. Because the Ducks and Sharks aren't that.

 

[apocalypse]

Arvidsson Kopitar lemieux
Iafallo danault kempe
Aa lizzotte grundstrom
Brown jad kaliyev

 

[Trash Panda]

Figured this response was coming, the way the PP is going I think it is worth trying him in front as a screen/garbage goal guy. It has worked for him in the recent past.
If he cannot contribute 5 on 5 could be a way to make him useful and get him going even not on the PP

That has literally been his dedicated spot, and it hasn’t been working.

Browns usefulness on the PP is over.

 

[bland]

Figured this response was coming, the way the PP is going I think it is worth trying him in front as a screen/garbage goal guy. It has worked for him in the recent past.
If he cannot contribute 5 on 5 could be a way to make him useful and get him going even not on the PP

Brown has 2 powerplay points in his last 43 games.

He is allergic to screening the goalie, 99% of the time he stands to the side of the net, limply waving his stick at shots and hoping either to be fed for easy tap ins or hope that a rebound falls directly to him. He puts in no work.

There is absolutely nothing Dustin Brown does now that is better than what you would get from Carl Grundstrom.

Leadership, right? On a team that has one playoff win in 7 years while struggling to integrate newcomers, be they vets or rookies. Leadership is in serious lack here.

Brown has no business being in the NHL. He is done.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

So why bring up Jordan Weal's name if you can't compare the two situations?

Show me another team that brought in or kept 3 forwards playing in the top 6, along with 2/3 other more veteran holdovers, who are playing their young F prospects a lot. Because the Ducks and Sharks aren't that.

I have never seen you be this deliberately obtuse in the name of serious bootlicking. It's not a good look.

It's simple, Jordan Weal skated off his predesignated bubble hockey lines, turned the puck over, and was never seen again. That's the metaphor. Don't make this more complicated just to obfuscate things.

It's easy and again I have to believe you're being deliberately obtuse because I know you're smarter than this, or at least not ignorant. I won't even have to go far--I'll just look at the teams in my recent browser history for obvious reasons.

• Washington Capitals' entire 2nd line from the other night is 24, 20, 23--Jonsson-Fjallby, McMichael, Sprong--and they were right in the middle six of their teams ice time. Protas, 20, got 14 minutes as well on their 4th line (3.5 the other night i guess with injuries). Brett Leason, 22, got more on the 4th line than ours did that night and more than Kupari the other night.
• Carolina's top line the other night--Svechnikov, Aho, Jarvis: 21, 24, 19.
  
• Jets--Don't really believe I need to say much about Connor, PLD.
• Colorado Avalanche played Newhook 16 minutes last night, more than Rantanen, and something called a Logan O'Connor 15 minutes.
  
• St. Louis--Robert Thomas is a fixture on their top line and played 19.5 minutes the other night. Kyrou, top six winger, 16 minutes.

There. In addition to the Ducks and Sharks 'ain't it' ing, a who's who of the top teams in the league shows teams playing their young F prospects a LOT and in positions befitting their skillsets. If you wonder why I act like people are taking crazy pills when talking about prospect playing time, THIS IS WHY. Some folks are acting like it's totally normal to bury skill players; this isn't 1990.

Don't give me this bullshit about the Kings being too good or their vets too good or their prospects too bad to not get playing time like this. It's inexcusable and frankly if you look at the teams who have integrated them into spots where they can be successful (there's the catch, I suppose--it requires a brain or an attitude of "i'm going to help you be successful" rather than some misplaced old school "well if you can't check on the 4th line you can't be on the PP"), those teams are enjoying great success as are their prospects. Mutual success instead of "beat this shitty vet by being a good 4th line checker or rot in the AHL forever."

It appears our organization is one of an absolutely precious few who wants to draft blue chip talent and then insult it. I feel pretty good about my stance on this issue and the first place teams around the league agree with me.

 

[head eyes]

Would like to see this in the future:
Iafallo - Kopi - Kaliyev/Kempe
Arvidsson - Danault - Kaliyev/Kempe
Lias Andersson - Lizotte - Lemieux
Grundstrom/Kupari/Brown/AA

Once Byfield is back, put him in Lizotte's spot and move Lizotte down. I'd also like to see Turcotte called up by Christmas as well. Going to need to clear room somewhere though.

 

[Kudelski37]

I have never seen you be this deliberately obtuse in the name of serious bootlicking. It's not a good look.

It's simple, Jordan Weal skated off his predesignated bubble hockey lines, turned the puck over, and was never seen again. That's the metaphor. Don't make this more complicated just to obfuscate things.

It's easy and again I have to believe you're being deliberately obtuse because I know you're smarter than this, or at least not ignorant. I won't even have to go far--I'll just look at the teams in my recent browser history for obvious reasons.

• Washington Capitals' entire 2nd line from the other night is 24, 20, 23--Jonsson-Fjallby, McMichael, Sprong--and they were right in the middle six of their teams ice time. Protas, 20, got 14 minutes as well on their 4th line (3.5 the other night i guess with injuries). Brett Leason, 22, got more on the 4th line than ours did that night and more than Kupari the other night.
• Carolina's top line the other night--Svechnikov, Aho, Jarvis: 21, 24, 19.
  
• Jets--Don't really believe I need to say much about Connor, PLD.
• Colorado Avalanche played Newhook 16 minutes last night, more than Rantanen, and something called a Logan O'Connor 15 minutes.
  
• St. Louis--Robert Thomas is a fixture on their top line and played 19.5 minutes the other night. Kyrou, top six winger, 16 minutes.

There. In addition to the Ducks and Sharks 'ain't it' ing, a who's who of the top teams in the league shows teams playing their young F prospects a LOT and in positions befitting their skillsets.

Don't give me this bullshit about the Kings being too good or their vets too good or their prospects too bad to not get playing time like this. It's inexcusable and frankly if you look at the teams who have integrated them into spots where they can be successful (there's the catch, I suppose--it requires a brain or an attitude of "i'm going to help you be successful" rather than some misplaced old school "well if you can't check on the 4th line you can't be on the PP"), those teams are enjoying great success as are their prospects. Mutual success instead of "beat this shitty vet by being a good 4th line checker or rot in the AHL forever."

It appears our organization is one of an absolutely precious few who wants to draft blue chip talent and then insult it. But sure, go on defending it. I feel pretty good about my stance on this issue and the first place teams around the league agree with me. But hey, at least you'd be secure in Todd McLellan's brain trust.

The Caps had lots of vets out forcing rookies to play, including three of their four normal centers. This after an off-season where they had to add rookies to the lineup in order to have the cap room to extend Ovechkin.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Caps had lots of vets out forcing rookies to play, including three of their four normal centers. This after an off-season where they had to add rookies to the lineup in order to have the cap room to extend Ovechkin.

Regardless of the reason--those guys got twice as many minutes as our 'highly touted' rookies even with a ton of people out of our lineup.

 

[cyclones22]

The extenuating circumstances don't mater. It's the fact that the young players are being put in advantageous situations to succeed. Same with losing both Doughty and Walker to injury. It's forced management to play Clague (who has been better than Maatta from the jump last season yet yanked around) and expand Tobi's responsibilities and get tougher matchups and opportunity to develop.

 

[Kudelski37]

Regardless of the reason--those guys got twice as many minutes as our 'highly touted' rookies even with a ton of people out of our lineup.

Look at the TOI stats, this is not close to true.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And now Durzi sent back down

Keep the circus rolling thru town

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Look at the TOI stats, this is not close to true.

I find it very telling when posters respond only to the obvious hyperbole and not the actual facts.

The point initially started as 'show me teams doing otherwise' and I showed Ducks/Sharks. Then the goalposts moved to 'ok show me teams with vets doing otherwise' and I showed veteran and Cup winning teams. What's next? Do I need to audit every team in the NHL? Because the point is--most successful teams are playing rookies big minutes and in positions in which to succeed. It's not just 'the Kings have vets so they can't'. The Avs have great vets and they can. The Caps have vets and they do. Carolina is the best team in the NHL and their top winger is a teen. Somehow they've all figured it out but we're smarter I guess?

 

[Eagle Fang]

And now Durzi sent back down

Keep the circus rolling thru town

This really is mind boggling. LA's PP is shit and Matt Roy as the QB is a joke. The Phoenix game would've been perfect for Durzi. Ontario had a huge division game vs Stockton and in that game their PP essentially could've been the difference but instead they went 0-3 including a 2 man adv. Two big games (albeit for different reasons) and Durzi didn't play in either. Weird stuff.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Urban Dictionary: 'BROWN-LINED"
#1 definition
"Oh shttt, Kupari just got Brown-Lined and looks bad for him. See him on the Reign soon"

 

[Kudelski37]

Kaliyev was drafted after McMichael and averages a higher TOI this season than McMichael. Kaliyev hasn't played less than 10 minutes in a game this season. McMichael played less than 8 minutes in one game this season. McMichael leads Cap rookie forwards in average TOI. Yet, you argue the Caps are doing what you want the Kings to do. So do you want Kaliyev to play more or less?

 

[Fat Elvis]

Grundstrum and Andersson should be put back in the lineup with a losing streak in full effect. The last few games lineup is broke, so fix it. Lots of choices who could/should sit out.

 

[Kudelski37]

I find it very telling when posters respond only to the obvious hyperbole and not the actual facts.

The point initially started as 'show me teams doing otherwise' and I showed Ducks/Sharks. Then the goalposts moved to 'ok show me teams with vets doing otherwise' and I showed veteran and Cup winning teams. What's next? Do I need to audit every team in the NHL? Because the point is--most successful teams are playing rookies big minutes and in positions in which to succeed. It's not just 'the Kings have vets so they can't'. The Avs have great vets and they can. The Caps have vets and they do. Carolina is the best team in the NHL and their top winger is a teen. Somehow they've all figured it out but we're smarter I guess?

Looks like I forgot to quote you in my response. See above.

 

[DoktorJeep]

Here is an updated snapshot of the recent 9 games set of performances.

Season - Games	Record	Rank	Goals	Goals per game	Special teams	Shots per game	Faceoffs
21/22 season - Second 9 games	5-2-2, 12 pts, .667 P%	17th of 32 teams	22 GF, 19 GA	2.44 GF/GP, 2.11 GA/GP	6.9 PP%, 89.5 PK%	34.1 SF/GP, 29.9 SA/GP	57.0 FOW%
21/22 season - First 9 games	3-5-1, 7 pts, .389 P%	26th of 32 teams	24 GF, 27 GA	2.67 GF/GP, 3.00 GA/GP	23.5 PP%, 69.2 PK%	35.8 SF/GP, 29.7 SA/GP	51.2 FOW%
20/21 season - Last 9 games	4-5-0, 8 pts, .444 P%	25th place out of 31 teams	21 GF, 25 GA	2.33 GF/GP, 2.78 GA/GP	11.8 PP%, 78.3 PK%	23.8 SF/GP, 31.3 SA/GP	47.4 FOW%
20/21 season - First 9 games	3-4-2, 8 pts, .444 P%	26th place out of 31 teams	26 GF, 29 GA	2.89 GF/GP, 3.22 GA/GP	21.6 PP%, 87.9 PK%	28.2 SF/GP, 31.8 SA/GP	49.6 FOW%

Some additional details on this stretch...

• Covers games from Nov 3 to Nov 21
• 5 home games vs 4 road games
• 3 western conference teams (0 pacific division), 6 eastern conference
• 2 back to back sets
• 6 opponents are playoff teams as of today, 3 are below a wild card spot

My main takeaways are they have played themselves back into playoff contention. The way they did that was by cutting the goals against down by around 1 GPG, with the PK majority rebounding despite the loss of Walker and Doughty (and the "addition" of Maata). The big negative trend is the offense which managed to score fewer goals in this stretch than the previous stretch. The PP is the bleeding wound that has crippled the offense.

Looking forward, the ability to get to OT and pick up at least one point will grow in significance. Of the next nine opponents, 6 games are teams playing well right now (Toronto, Anaheim, Calgary, Edmonton, Minnesota, Tampa Bay). The other three are buried in the standings (Ottawa, Vancouver, Dallas), but coming off the loss to the Coyotes, the Kings have shown they aren't a lock to beat the teams they should on any given night.

One thing in their favor is 6 of the 9 are at home, so they should be able to take advantage of the line matchups. Also, there is only one back to back series, but the second game is against the Canucks who are foundering. But the number of divisional games is climbing to 4 out of 9. So if they want to keep pace, they need to win most of those games outright, and try to get to OT in all the others as much as possible.

Looking at the opponents, the Kings appear to be favorites when facing Ottawa and Vancouver. And you would expect them to be underdogs against Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, Minnesota and Tampa Bay. The games against Anaheim and Dallas should go their way, but are more up for grabs. So I think the floor to keep their necks above water should be a record of 3-5-1. That probably puts them deeper towards the bottom of the division if it happens given the number of divisional opponents in the upcoming stretch.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kaliyev was drafted after McMichael and averages a higher TOI this season than McMichael. Kaliyev hasn't played less than 10 minutes in a game this season. McMichael played less than 8 minutes in one game this season. McMichael leads Cap rookie forwards in average TOI. Yet, you argue the Caps are doing what you want the Kings to do. So do you want Kaliyev to play more or less?

By 10 total seconds. Oh wow, what a gotcha moment. Guess all those other examples aren't enough. Did you bother looking at ES deployment? It might blow your mind.

Great work, Todd, but while you're here--is it literally too much to ask to try Kaliyev on the top lines next to our top centers since their wingers are failing to score and our top PP since it's a disaster?

Because that's the point. McMichael is being used as a 2C/3C most nights with Washington's best players and in positions to succeed. TM stumbled into a line that's been excellent with Kaliyev/Lizotte/Lemieux by demoting him to the 4th line, but still isn't even bothering with the above. And that's our best used prospect! Do we need to go back to having a chat about the others, or are you 100% comfortable with development since Arty is getting 10 more seconds per game than McMichael?

It blows my mind that people can look at all of this and continue to try to rationalize it. Let me make it simple--there are much lesser prospects on much better teams being put in much better positions to succeed. Go ahead and continue parsing seconds if it makes you feel better.

 

[King'sPawn]

Look at the TOI stats, this is not close to true.

McMichael's TOI is down because the top PP unit, Ovechkin's, dominates it. McMichael averages 12 minutes even strength TOI. That's 8th overall of the 17 Washington forwards. Just one fewer shift's worth than Sheary, who's 6th.

Kaliyev averages a shade over 10 minutes even strength. Dead last of all the 16 Kings forwards who have played a game. He's 12 seconds away from second last, which is (checks) RASMUS KUPARI.

Literally the two youngest regulars up front are dead last in even strength deployment.

 

[cyclones22]

By 10 seconds. Oh wow, what a gotcha moment. Guess all those other examples aren't enough.

Great work, Todd, but while you're here--is it literally too much to ask to try Kaliyev on the top lines next to our top centers since their wingers are failing to score and our top PP since it's a disaster?

Because that's the point. McMichael is being used as a 2C/3C most nights with Washington's best players and in positions to succeed. TM stumbled into a line that's been excellent with Kaliyev/Lizotte/Lemieux by demoting him to the 4th line, but still isn't even bothering with the above. And that's our best used prospect! Do we need to go back to having a chat about the others, or are you 100% comfortable with development since Arty is getting 10 more seconds per game than McMichael?

It blows my mind that people can look at all of this and continue to try to rationalize it. Let me make it simple--there are much lesser prospects on much better teams being put in much better positions to succeed. Go ahead and continue parsing seconds if it makes you feel better.

It's like a manager saying look, Arthur I've given you more hours than Conner but you're on the damn graveyard shift while Connor is working 9 to 5 with the best support staff.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

McMichael's TOI is down because the top PP unit, Ovechkin's, dominates it. McMichael averages 12 minutes even strength TOI. That's 8th overall of the 17 Washington forwards. Just one fewer shift's worth than Sheary, who's 6th.

Kaliyev averages a shade over 10 minutes even strength. Dead last of all the 16 Kings forwards who have played a game. He's 12 seconds away from second last, which is (checks) RASMUS KUPARI.

Literally the two youngest regulars up front are dead last in even strength deployment.

It's unreal, and I'm getting more worked up than I should, but I'm just flabbergasted that people even want to fight this battle. I'm not sure I've ever seen this forum stick up for a Kings coach like they have this chode, and of all coaches...

 

[cyclones22]

I'm typically on the on the give the coach a chance choir but I'm done with TMc. Only Willie Desjardins did worse with minutes distribution than this guy and not by much. That clown kept playing Kopi and Drew major minutes for nothing. There was zero chance at the playoffs but even when eliminated he kept trotting those guys out there for 22 and 26 minutes a game.

 

[YP44]

I'm typically on the on the give the coach a chance choir but I'm done with TMc. Only Willie Desjardins did worse with minutes distribution than this guy and not by much.

Willie D was a lot worse IMO.

Coaches are evaluated against expectations. The kings this are expected to be a bubble team that will either sneak in or just miss. Right now that is what they are. I am not a of TM, but you bringing up Willie makes me remember how much worse it can actually be.

 

[King'sPawn]

It's unreal, and I'm getting more worked up than I should, but I'm just flabbergasted that people even want to fight this battle. I'm not sure I've ever seen this forum stick up for a Kings coach like they have this chode, and of all coaches...

I understand defending McLellan to a degree. I like the guy and think he communicated a few key points early on:
- play your game, but in my system
- you can't just tell a player what to do. You have to explain why

So... I get it. I like him and may find myself defending him for various reasons.

But there is a major disconnect between what the organization needs and what McLellan is doing. I don't know if that's his fault, Blake's, or a combination.