Speculation: 2021-21 LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster discussion part V

[KingsFan7824]

I understand that (roster size), it's just dumb that they do this to prospects and play literally worst on the team by any metric Maatta over rewarding any youth.

Looking at how long Strand played the role just illustrates how f***ed up it is. It's like they're going out of their way to wreck people's momentum. Bench Grundstrom after he plays the three best games of his career. Wait for Durzi to build confidence and go on an absolute bender--then call him up to ride the bench right when the AHL team plays their toughest test. Call up Strand because we're short on RHD, let him ride the bench for the worst dman on the roster. They did everything they could to bury Clague. And that's just in addition to the horrid mismanagement of the bluechip offensive talents (Kaliyev, Vilardi, Tkachev).

I have some serious questions and reservations about management and it just keeps getting worse.

But hey, at least Kopitar played another 23 minutes last night, he should look good today. Kupari should be nice and fresh for his 8 minutes after playing 8 yesterday. Development!

They were trying to beat the best team in the league, were staying with them, and Lizotte played well. Kopitar and Danault are going to play in a game like that, and of you put the worst forward on the team with Kupari, how is he going to play in that particular game? Kupari is 40% at the dot last night.

If we're going to get upset about anything, why was Mike Anderson out there for the 2nd most ES minutes when he got schooled every time he touched the ice?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

They were trying to beat the best team in the league, were staying with them, and Lizotte played well. Kopitar and Danault are going to play in a game like that, and of you put the worst forward on the team with Kupari, how is he going to play in that particular game? Kupari is 40% at the dot last night.

If we're going to get upset about anything, why was Mike Anderson out there for the 2nd most ES minutes when he got schooled every time he touched the ice?

Putting the worst forward on the team with him didn't stop Kopitar from getting time, but Kupari...you get the drift.

Not upset about Mikey for reasons I've already illustrated. But if you're grumpy about it hey, just shows you're agreeing with me re: mismanagement.

And it's back to back, hence the complaint about Kopitars minutes when you have several lines going well.

 

[bland]

They were trying to beat the best team in the league, were staying with them, and Lizotte played well. Kopitar and Danault are going to play in a game like that, and of you put the worst forward on the team with Kupari, how is he going to play in that particular game? Kupari is 40% at the dot last night.

If we're going to get upset about anything, why was Mike Anderson out there for the 2nd most ES minutes when he got schooled every time he touched the ice?

Because that is how kids learn and that should be paramount here right now so the organization can go from expecting to lose games like this to having the kinds of players who are expected to win.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Putting the worst forward on the team with him didn't stop Kopitar from getting time, but Kupari...you get the drift.

Not upset about Mikey for reasons I've already illustrated. But if you're grumpy about it hey, just shows you're agreeing with me re: mismanagement.

And it's back to back, hence the complaint about Kopitars minutes when you have several lines going well.

I know you're not saying you don't know the difference between Kopitar and Kupari, but come on, man. Sucks that Lizotte had legs going, and he's the ultimate coach's player. If you want more lines to play, then Brown has to stay with Kopitar.

You can't give a coach the option to play a veteran, because if you do, he will. There should've been no Danault, Arvidsson, or AA, if we wanted young guys to play more, because unsurprisingly, all 3 are on the top 2 lines.

Because that is how kids learn and that should be paramount here right now so the organization can go from expecting to lose games like this to having the kinds of players who are expected to win.

Unfortunately the Kings were in a position to win yesterday.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I know you're not saying you don't know the difference between Kopitar and Kupari, but come on, man. Sucks that Lizotte had legs going, and he's the ultimate coach's player. If you want more lines to play, then Brown has to stay with Kopitar.

You can't give a coach the option to play a veteran, because if you do, he will. There should've been no Danault, Arvidsson, or AA, if we wanted young guys to play more, because unsurprisingly, all 3 are on the top 2 lines.


Unfortunately the Kings were in a position to win yesterday.

So put Brown next to Kopitar and Kopi gets 24 a game; put brown next to Kupari and Rasmus gets 8. He doesn't play ALL of Kopitar's minutes, he doesn't have to play all of Kupari's either. You're saying you're okay with youth getting shortchanged because a vet is playing awful. I'm not going to accept that when it's not the case when he plays elsewhere. TM has no problem benching guys and going with 10-11 forwards. Brown shouldn't be exempt especially when it hurts a kid.

 

[KingsFan7824]

So put Brown next to Kopitar and Kopi gets 24 a game; put brown next to Kupari and Rasmus gets 8. He doesn't play ALL of Kopitar's minutes, he doesn't have to play all of Kupari's either. You're saying you're okay with youth getting shortchanged because a vet is playing awful. I'm not going to accept that when it's not the case when he plays elsewhere. TM has no problem benching guys and going with 10-11 forwards. Brown shouldn't be exempt especially when it hurts a kid.

And 6:30 of Kopitar's time was special teams, 4:30 on the PP.

Kopitar is going to get his time, just how it is, Danault is going to get his time, just how it is, and Lizotte's line had 2 goals. The team was in the game, they kept coming back, there's going to be a line that doesn't play. Sorry Kupari.

And yes, Brown is apparently so bad, that if he's not with Kopitar or Danault, then that line probably isn't going to play much.

You cannot give a coach the opportunity to throw a vet on the ice, because they very likely will. Unless they're a boring ass grinder like Dwight King, who Sutter didn't mind putting out there. The young skill guys? Outside of clearly ready to score at the NHL level, they're not playing a lot. Name the coach that plays young guys when they don't score. So yes, in 8 minutes, they have to score. If not, and there's a veteran alternative on the bench, the vet is going to play, 95 times out of 100. Especially if a game is close.

TM's job is to win the next game. He might not be the coach when the team is truly ready to win, so he has to put on a good show for his next employer. That is trying to win the game today. Maybe TM sucks as a coach, but he's a typical coach. There just aren't many revolutionaries around.

 

[Schmooley]

Name the coach that plays young guys when they don't score. So yes, in 8 minutes, they have to score. If not, and there's a veteran alternative on the bench, the vet is going to play, 95 times out of 100. Especially if a game is close.

Kaliyev was a scorer at all levels and Kupari a bit less so but still has offensive potential. They looked more dangerous and scored more in the beginning. Maybe its the schedule getting to them or maybe its their deployment. Arvidsson and Brown havent been scoring either and AA Iafallo and Danault werent exactly lighting it up the last two games. There is more time than 8 minutes for Kupari when the vets/rest of the team are not as good and reliable as you are making them out to be. Their record is proof of it and its over many years now

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And 6:30 of Kopitar's time was special teams, 4:30 on the PP.

Kopitar is going to get his time, just how it is, Danault is going to get his time, just how it is, and Lizotte's line had 2 goals. The team was in the game, they kept coming back, there's going to be a line that doesn't play. Sorry Kupari.

And yes, Brown is apparently so bad, that if he's not with Kopitar or Danault, then that line probably isn't going to play much.

You cannot give a coach the opportunity to throw a vet on the ice, because they very likely will. Unless they're a boring ass grinder like Dwight King, who Sutter didn't mind putting out there. The young skill guys? Outside of clearly ready to score at the NHL level, they're not playing a lot. Name the coach that plays young guys when they don't score. So yes, in 8 minutes, they have to score. If not, and there's a veteran alternative on the bench, the vet is going to play, 95 times out of 100. Especially if a game is close.

TM's job is to win the next game. He might not be the coach when the team is truly ready to win, so he has to put on a good show for his next employer. That is trying to win the game today. Maybe TM sucks as a coach, but he's a typical coach. There just aren't many revolutionaries around.

Don't even have to go far to see that.

Zegras was -2 vs. the Canes--played nearly 18 minutes. Lundestrom, 15. McTavish, even before he went right back down, 12.5.
Eklund played 15.5 the night before he was sent back. A few nights later, vs the Jets, Jonathan Dahlen was -2 and played 14.
Even Arizona found Barret Hayton's hapless ass nearly 19 minutes last night.

The only guys getting played less than 10 minutes on most teams are 4th liners and even then...

So yes, this is a Kings-exclusive self-inflicted issue by having 'too many vets' but even veteran teams like SJ are finding spots for their kids that don't handicap them in favor of fading veterans.

Development needs to be a priority. Play them or send them down. I don't even care to stick up for Kupari because I don't think there's much more there but it's still mishandling.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Kaliyev was a scorer at all levels and Kupari a bit less so but still has offensive potential. They looked more dangerous and scored more in the beginning. Maybe its the schedule getting to them or maybe its their deployment. Arvidsson and Brown havent been scoring either and AA Iafallo and Danault werent exactly lighting it up the last two games. There is more time than 8 minutes for Kupari when the vets/rest of the team are not as good and reliable as you are making them out to be. Their record is proof of it and its over many years now

Doesn't matter. The vast majority of the time, coaches will go safe. Good or bad.

It's about positions. We know Kopitar will play. We know Danault will play. We know Lizotte is pretty much every coach's dream. If Kupari is going to be a C, there aren't that many minutes for him. Are there more than less than 8? Maybe. There has to be a reason he played 8 minutes. Maybe it is because TM is a complete dumbass. That could be. But then Brown finally only played 8 minutes at ES too.

TM is just trying to win a winnable game. That's why he's there. It's not to play Kupari. Just to win, however that has to be done.

Don't even have to go far to see that.

Zegras was -2 vs. the Canes--played nearly 18 minutes. Lundestrom, 15. McTavish, even before he went right back down, 12.5.
Eklund played 15.5 the night before he was sent back. A few nights later, vs the Jets, Jonathan Dahlen was -2 and played 14.
Even Arizona found Barret Hayton's hapless ass nearly 19 minutes last night.

The only guys getting played less than 10 minutes on most teams are 4th liners and even then...

So yes, this is a Kings-exclusive self-inflicted issue by having 'too many vets' but even veteran teams like SJ are finding spots for their kids that don't handicap them in favor of fading veterans.

Development needs to be a priority. Play them or send them down. I don't even care to stick up for Kupari because I don't think there's much more there but it's still mishandling.

What fading vets do the Sharks have up front? How many? Their defense is where there old folks are. Dahlen is 23, about to be 24 in a month. Different than 20 and 21.

What did the Ducks do last summer? Nothing. They didn't give the coach the chance to play more vets. Doesn't hurt that Rakell is out.

If anyone needs to be blamed, it's Blake, for bringing in veteran players. Edler takes time away from all the prospects on defense. Danault takes time from C prospects. Arvidsson takes time away from W prospects. AA does the same. Yes, it is annoying that Kopitar still gets 1,000 minutes a night. At the same time, I can't blame TM for trying to win a game, in the way that he thinks he has to to win it. It's not like Kupari plays 8 minutes every night. First time at 8 this year. A couple others under 10, but everything else has been 11-13 or so. Seems like whatever was going on last night, maybe it was specific to that game.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

What fading vets do the Sharks have up front? How many? Their defense is where there old folks are. Dahlen is 23, about to be 24 in a month. Different than 20 and 21.

What did the Ducks do last summer? Nothing. They didn't give the coach the chance to play more vets. Doesn't hurt that Rakell is out.

If anyone needs to be blamed, it's Blake, for bringing in veteran players. Edler takes time away from all the prospects on defense. Danault takes time from C prospects. Arvidsson takes time away from W prospects. AA does the same. Yes, it is annoying that Kopitar still gets 1,000 minutes a night. At the same time, I can't blame TM for trying to win a game, in the way that he thinks he has to to win it. It's not like Kupari plays 8 minutes every night. First time at 8 this year. A couple others under 10, but everything else has been 11-13 or so. Seems like whatever was going on last night, maybe it was specific to that game.

The point is--if you're going to put them in the lineup, use them. No other teams have problems doing that, with or without vets. It's not limited to Kupari, it's Vilardi, Kaliyev, etc. playing under 10 with regularity. There's letting guys get their feet wet--then there's wasting/burying them. I'm sorry but if you're going to put Kupari on the third line you can at least give him 15 minutes like a normal prospect on any other team rather then treat them as journeyman plugs.

Using the Ducks as example--sure, they had a million roster spots to go around. I'm not saying run an entire line of prospects. I'm just saying if you're going to have two in the lineup, play them like normal players, not like they're f***ing lepers. No wonder guys are scared to make a mistake, they get Jordan Weal'ed.

Playing these guys hundreds less NHL minutes than other franchises and then wondering why they don't 'take another step' is a self fulfilling--and defeating--prophecy. And then we play Kopitar 50 minutes in two nights and wonder why he's out of gas with an empty net.

 

[King'sPawn]

So yes, this is a Kings-exclusive self-inflicted issue by having 'too many vets' but even veteran teams like SJ are finding spots for their kids that don't handicap them in favor of fading veterans.

Development needs to be a priority. Play them or send them down. I don't even care to stick up for Kupari because I don't think there's much more there but it's still mishandling.

On top of this, the Kings have stockpiled so much young talent that, by this point (and thus by design), there should be a few players who are put into bigger roles.

If the coach has one goal, to win games, then Rob Blake set up TMac to fail, straight up. We have talked for how many years now about the leadership gap between the vets and the next wave of young players? The gap between older veterans in the top six and the young players who have yet been capable (or given the opportunity) to show what they are capable of? It's why many people were saying "don't trade assets for Eichel, don't trade Byfield for x, Turcotte for y, etc."

The key phrase was "get younger and better."

By relying on the vets to do all the heavy lifting STILL, at least up front, neither of those are happening. Bjornfot and Anderson are doing their fair share at the blueline. But more needs to happen with the forwards.

But right now we have a young center anchored with Brown, and he was unquestionably the worst player on either team. Kaliyev, a premier scorer, is partnered with two very effective and synergistic grinders but is put on an island where he will try to provide an offensive touch should the opportunity arise. But that's not making the most of his abilities. So either he's put in a situation to change his style of game or he's put in a situation where his skillset doesn't complement his linemates. Either way, it's a developmental anchor.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

On top of this, the Kings have stockpiled so much young talent that, by this point (and thus by design), there should be a few players who are put into bigger roles.

If the coach has one goal, to win games, then Rob Blake set up TMac to fail, straight up. We have talked for how many years now about the leadership gap between the vets and the next wave of young players? The gap between older veterans in the top six and the young players who have yet been capable (or given the opportunity) to show what they are capable of? It's why many people were saying "don't trade assets for Eichel, don't trade Byfield for x, Turcotte for y, etc."

The key phrase was "get younger and better."

By relying on the vets to do all the heavy lifting STILL, at least up front, neither of those are happening. Bjornfot and Anderson are doing their fair share at the blueline. But more needs to happen with the forwards.

But right now we have a young center anchored with Brown, and he was unquestionably the worst player on either team. Kaliyev, a premier scorer, is partnered with two very effective and synergistic grinders but is put on an island where he will try to provide an offensive touch should the opportunity arise. But that's not making the most of his abilities. So either he's put in a situation to change his style of game or he's put in a situation where his skillset doesn't complement his linemates. Either way, it's a developmental anchor.

And just illustrates the disconnect between drafting, development, and deployment. It's hard to tell if it's a management issue, a coaching issue, or both, but the overall vision is completely clouded right now.

Good planning will put these guys in a position to succeed. Right now they're running drafting as if it's for the near future, they're running AHL/development as if these guys are gonna be wheeling and dealing...then they run the NHL with an iron fist where you're buried if you make a mistake and the vets take VAST preference over the youth regardless of performance and no one is being used to their actual skillsets, they're all being deployed as if they're vanilla two-way players.

 

[King'sPawn]

And just illustrates the disconnect between drafting, development, and deployment. It's hard to tell if it's a management issue, a coaching issue, or both, but the overall vision is completely clouded right now.

And it brings forth the original question for Blake: what is the identity of the team?

Because I see a team with defensemen trying to activate. It's not gone in. I make jokes about the lack of offense from the blueline, but you see Bjornfot and Anderson making their attempts - eventually, it will pay off.

The forwards look like they are focused more on scoring in transition and off the rush. So, yes, a player like Byfield will thrive. A player like Kupari will do well enough with a non-anchor. A player like Kaliyev is not the line driver for that type of play. He will essentially benefit more from being the 3F joining in later and having linemates who can feed him. Lemieux CAN do that, but Lizotte isn't that type of player. He's a battler and grinder.

So I just see different lines trying to all encompass the same identity, but bad fits are being thrust upon young players.

As for development, yes - if the goal is to make the team better in transition and on the rush, then they need to develop better skaters or boost confidence with puck movement up front.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The point is--if you're going to put them in the lineup, use them. No other teams have problems doing that, with or without vets. It's not limited to Kupari, it's Vilardi, Kaliyev, etc. playing under 10 with regularity. There's letting guys get their feet wet--then there's wasting/burying them. I'm sorry but if you're going to put Kupari on the third line you can at least give him 15 minutes like a normal prospect on any other team rather then treat them as journeyman plugs.

Using the Ducks as example--sure, they had a million roster spots to go around. I'm not saying run an entire line of prospects. I'm just saying if you're going to have two in the lineup, play them like normal players, not like they're f***ing lepers. No wonder guys are scared to make a mistake, they get Jordan Weal'ed.

Playing these guys hundreds less NHL minutes than other franchises and then wondering why they don't 'take another step' is a self fulfilling--and defeating--prophecy. And then we play Kopitar 50 minutes in two nights and wonder why he's out of gas with an empty net.

A different coach and GM for him. Professional ones too, not the jokes we have running the Kings today. Almost like it's a normal thing. I can pretty much guarantee, that there are fans of every team, that have the same complaints. Maybe not this year, but last year. Maybe not last year, but next year. Nobody likes coaches. None of them want to play young guys. They pretty much all coach safely. Chip it in, chip it out. Don't do anything stupid.

 

[tny760]

wrong thread sorry

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

A different coach and GM for him. Professional ones too, not the jokes we have running the Kings today. Almost like it's a normal thing. I can pretty much guarantee, that there are fans of every team, that have the same complaints. Maybe not this year, but last year. Maybe not last year, but next year. Nobody likes coaches. None of them want to play young guys. They pretty much all coach safely. Chip it in, chip it out. Don't do anything stupid.

huge difference between a team challenging for a cup and one in the middle of a very public rebuild

comparing the sutter cup era kings to the current team is dishonest

do I need to show you how other teams in similar situations are using their youth again or was twice enough

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I want to make a new thread....but at the same time, don't want to.
I think it's valid, timely and legit without bad intent.

Dustin Brown Exit Plan:

 

[ibleedkings]

I want to make a new thread....but at the same time, don't want to.
I think it's valid, timely and legit without bad intent.

Dustin Brown Exit Plan:

Hurry up and do it before I do!!!

 

[FSL KINGS]

I want to make a new thread....but at the same time, don't want to.
I think it's valid, timely and legit without bad intent.

Dustin Brown Exit Plan:

Trade ain't happening. Contract up after year. He's old. 20 mins a night until he needs a few games to rest up.

 

[bmr]

This will be Brown's last year with the team. Lizotte and Lemieux have looked really good together. As much as AA looked good with Danault and Iafallo initially, they need to move Kempe back on that line. I can't understand why there hasn't been a game where all the lines are clicking. There will definitely need to be some accountability of this team does not make the playoffs this year.

I think if you pressed me regarding Blake and TMac i'd probably want to see TMac go first, but this season is still way too early. For the most part, I like what Blake has done. I think the Petersen signing was kinda brutal - thank goodness it's a shorter term and that's probably the reason for the higher dollar amount. He really hasn't made any terrible decisions. Lombardi had a couple of really bad ones after we won the 2nd cup. Blake has been patient and has maximized the team's assets and its future.

 

[YP44]

This will be Brown's last year with the team. Lizotte and Lemieux have looked really good together. As much as AA looked good with Danault and Iafallo initially, they need to move Kempe back on that line. I can't understand why there hasn't been a game where all the lines are clicking. There will definitely need to be some accountability of this team does not make the playoffs this year.

I think if you pressed me regarding Blake and TMac i'd probably want to see TMac go first, but this season is still way too early. For the most part, I like what Blake has done. I think the Petersen signing was kinda brutal - thank goodness it's a shorter term and that's probably the reason for the higher dollar amount. He really hasn't made any terrible decisions. Lombardi had a couple of really bad ones after we won the 2nd cup. Blake has been patient and has maximized the team's assets and its future.

AA is all sizzle. He can get on hot streaks but I think he is best suited for 3rd line work.

Kempe-Kopitar-Arvidson
Iafallo-Danault-Kaliyev
Lemieux-Lizotte-AA
Grundstrom/Moore-Kupari-Brown

I would give the above a look however 5 on 5 play I am not too concerned with it is the PP. I would go with below:

Arvidson-Kopitar-Brown
Kaliyev-Clague

people may not like Brown there, but he is a good PP guy who can screen the goalie.

second unit:
Iafallo-Danault-Kempe
Edler(this is the spot I struggled with)-Roy

If the special teams could get going the last couple of games would have been very different.

 

[Trash Panda]

AA is all sizzle. He can get on hot streaks but I think he is best suited for 3rd line work.

Kempe-Kopitar-Arvidson
Iafallo-Danault-Kaliyev
Lemieux-Lizotte-AA
Grundstrom/Moore-Kupari-Brown

I would give the above a look however 5 on 5 play I am not too concerned with it is the PP. I would go with below:

Arvidson-Kopitar-Brown
Kaliyev-Clague

people may not like Brown there, but he is a good PP guy who can screen the goalie.

second unit:
Iafallo-Danault-Kempe
Edler(this is the spot I struggled with)-Roy

If the special teams could get going the last couple of games would have been very different.

Dustin is not a good PP guy anymore, and hasn’t been for some time now. He needs to spend this farewell tour stapled to the bench or the 4th line.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

This will be Brown's last year with the team. Lizotte and Lemieux have looked really good together. As much as AA looked good with Danault and Iafallo initially, they need to move Kempe back on that line. I can't understand why there hasn't been a game where all the lines are clicking. There will definitely need to be some accountability of this team does not make the playoffs this year.

I think if you pressed me regarding Blake and TMac i'd probably want to see TMac go first, but this season is still way too early. For the most part, I like what Blake has done. I think the Petersen signing was kinda brutal - thank goodness it's a shorter term and that's probably the reason for the higher dollar amount. He really hasn't made any terrible decisions. Lombardi had a couple of really bad ones after we won the 2nd cup. Blake has been patient and has maximized the team's assets and its future.

I can't see Brown finishing the season, at the level he's playing. He's struggling all over the ice and even 0 hits last game...so cannot say he has physical presence. 2 good hits in the last week, ain't enough.

As much as Lemieux and Lizzotte look good, I think Lizotte has stepped up and will do well with any 4th liner now. Lemieux is showing he's middle 6 player for sure. AA not looking great, unless he's burying a few more.
I think Lemieux would add physical presence to Danault and Iafallo and create room for them and more scoring attempts.

Arvidsson Kopitar Kempe
Lemieux Danault Iafallo
Andersson Kupari Kaliyev
Grundstrom Lizotte Moore

Lemieux is opposite of deer in the headlights and plays like Chychrun in the headlights and I'm taking him down. Body or fists. I'm going to the net
and putting pucks in it.

 

[YP44]

Dustin is not a good PP guy anymore, and hasn’t been for some time now. He needs to spend this farewell tour stapled to the bench or the 4th line.

Figured this response was coming, the way the PP is going I think it is worth trying him in front as a screen/garbage goal guy. It has worked for him in the recent past.
If he cannot contribute 5 on 5 could be a way to make him useful and get him going even not on the PP

 

[KingTech]

I can't see Brown finishing the season, at the level he's playing. He's struggling all over the ice and even 0 hits last game...so cannot say he has physical presence. 2 good hits in the last week, ain't enough.

As much as Lemieux and Lizzotte look good, I think Lizotte has stepped up and will do well with any 4th liner now. Lemieux is showing he's middle 6 player for sure. AA not looking great, unless he's burying a few more.
I think Lemieux would add physical presence to Danault and Iafallo and create room for them and more scoring attempts.

Arvidsson Kopitar Kempe
Lemieux Danault Iafallo
Andersson Kupari Kaliyev
Grundstrom Lizotte Moore

Lemieux is opposite of deer in the headlights and plays like Chychrun in the headlights and I'm taking him down. Body or fists. I'm going to the net
and putting pucks in it.

did u kill off AA?