2021-2022 S Blues Multi-Purpose Thread Part 3

[Reality Czech]

If he wasn’t a vocal player he wouldn’t be the captain of the team.

Yes he primarily leads by example but he’s definitely vocal. You can’t sit there quietly if you have the C on your chest. That doesn’t happen.

ROR is the textbook example of what you want in a captain. He's competitive as hell and never takes a shift off. I've heard numerous players say in interviews that ROR will run his own drills after practice and a lot of guys stick around to participate. Landeskog said he used to do it in his Colorado days, how he'll give guys little tips to help them improve their game. It's like having a player/coach on the team.

Considering what we've heard about his parents and the kind of people they are, it's no surprise that ROR has turned into a great leader and person in general.

 

[bleedblue1223]

My god, can we stop with the revisionist Petro bashing. I get that this is a much lower tier bashing, but he was absolutely captain material, and was known to be very vocal on the bench. The idea that he was this soft and quiet recluse is just not true.

And at the end of the day, we really don't know what these guys do off the ice for the team and the group. And the team themselves have their own leaders that they listen to. Everyone talked about how Bouwmeester wouldn't say much, but when he did, everyone shut up and listened because he had all their respect and when he spoke, he made it count.

As for ROR, he's quite clearly a lead by example type IMO. His preparation off the ice and during practice. Routinely being one of the last ones off the practice ice and staying with the younger guys. Bringing high effort every night. That stuff on some level is contagious, where you're more likely to keep that high effort up when you see him doing it every night. Even when he's not scoring, he's doing all the little things.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

ROR is the textbook example of what you want in a captain. He's competitive as hell and never takes a shift off. I've heard numerous players say in interviews that ROR will run his own drills after practice and a lot of guys stick around to participate. Landeskog said he used to do it in his Colorado days, how he'll give guys little tips to help them improve their game. It's like having a player/coach on the team.

Considering what we've heard about his parents and the kind of people they are, it's no surprise that ROR has turned into a great leader and person in general.

I've never heard this confirmed, but its also what makes me think he must have requested a trade in Buffalo. Can you imagine a situation where O'Reilly is being scapegoated as 'the problem' there? It looks like their team may finally break out of the pit, but he had so much to offer a developing team with young talent. Its nice for them that Tage is turning into a decent NHL player, but I think they'd still have been better off with ROR having a voice in the team leadership.

 

[BlueDream]

No. First, many of us thought it should have been Steen since he was soul of the team.

Second, citing examples of players who aren't captains is irrelevant to the point that guys who are stars are often named captain because they are stars. And I'm not even saying that is bad idea. McDavid, Suzuki, Hischier, Stamkos, Crosby, Eichel, etc.. these guys were all captains at young age. Are you saying it's not because they were young stars who team wanted to build around?

You realize you can be a young star AND have leadership qualities, right? It's not one or the other. The guys you are listing have both, as did Petro, which is what makes them great choices. If you don't think Stamkos, Crosby, McDavid, etc are leaders based on stories you hear about them from their teammates, I'm not sure what to say. Those guys are as good as they are because their competitiveness is out of this world. Who would be a better captain candidate than any of those guys on any of those teams?

You also kinda have to be good for your teammates to really respect you as a Captain. The Florida Panthers once had Derek MacKenzie (a 4th liner) as their captain. That did n

Pretty sure most fans that have knowledge of the sport all thought it should be Steen.

Lol. Nope, that wasn't the case because Steen was aging and wasn't thought of to be around as long as Petro would have been. Petro had way more support for it and if you didn't know, the team won their first Cup with him as captain. Carry on though about how much you think you know.

 

[eibyyz]

It's not happening. At least one of ROR or Tarasenko is going to be wearing a different jersey in 2023/24.

No great insight, but Vova would bring a bigger return in a trade. Love the guy, and I'll watch him when he's on TV, but there it is.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

You realize you can be a young star AND have leadership qualities, right? It's not one or the other. The guys you are listing have both, as did Petro, which is what makes them great choices. If you don't think Stamkos, Crosby, McDavid, etc are leaders based on stories you hear about them from their teammates, I'm not sure what to say. Those guys are as good as they are because their competitiveness is out of this world. Who would be a better captain candidate than any of those guys on any of those teams?

You also kinda have to be good for your teammates to really respect you as a Captain. The Florida Panthers once had Derek MacKenzie (a 4th liner) as their captain. That did n


Lol. Nope, that wasn't the case because Steen was aging and wasn't thought of to be around as long as Petro would have been. Petro had way more support for it and if you didn't know, the team won their first Cup with him as captain. Carry on though about how much you think you know.

Nearly everyone in Nhl has leadership qualities. If you don’t think these guys were picked bc of their star talent I have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you.

 

[PocketNines]

My god, can we stop with the revisionist Petro bashing. I get that this is a much lower tier bashing, but he was absolutely captain material, and was known to be very vocal on the bench. The idea that he was this soft and quiet recluse is just not true.

And at the end of the day, we really don't know what these guys do off the ice for the team and the group. And the team themselves have their own leaders that they listen to. Everyone talked about how Bouwmeester wouldn't say much, but when he did, everyone shut up and listened because he had all their respect and when he spoke, he made it count.

As for ROR, he's quite clearly a lead by example type IMO. His preparation off the ice and during practice. Routinely being one of the last ones off the practice ice and staying with the younger guys. Bringing high effort every night. That stuff on some level is contagious, where you're more likely to keep that high effort up when you see him doing it every night. Even when he's not scoring, he's doing all the little things.

Pietrangelo's actual performance has to be revised.

"Dad left and I hate him now"

 

[The Note]

Who is named captain is one of the most overblown things in sports and we as fans have little idea how the locker room truly functions in any given year. Seems like most people see things that happen out on the ice and extrapolate that out to confirm their priors.

 

[Reality Czech]

I've never heard this confirmed, but its also what makes me think he must have requested a trade in Buffalo. Can you imagine a situation where O'Reilly is being scapegoated as 'the problem' there? It looks like their team may finally break out of the pit, but he had so much to offer a developing team with young talent. Its nice for them that Tage is turning into a decent NHL player, but I think they'd still have been better off with ROR having a voice in the team leadership.

Could certainly be. ROR is a proud guy and has an ego to some degree. I don't mean that in a bad way, but he knows how good of a hockey player he is and probably can't tolerate negativity and bad habits. He asked for a trade out of Colorado because he felt he was worth more than they were offering, and time proved him to be correct. I have to imagine he wouldn't fare well in that negative Buffalo environment and just collect paychecks while having no chance to contend for a Cup. I've heard Lehner and others talk about the culture in Buffalo during that time and it sounds like a total nightmare.

Who is named captain is one of the most overblown things in sports and we as fans have little idea how the locker room truly functions in any given year. Seems like most people see things that happen out on the ice and extrapolate that out to confirm their priors.

We can learn a lot by listening to interviews with players and reporters, but obviously not the whole picture. I think it's safe to say that there is a good reason a player is named captain, but it's different depending on the situation. I think 95% of fans thought ROR would be named captain after Petro left as he was the obvious choice. Team culture does matter a lot, and the captain should play a big role in that.

 

[Brian39]

No great insight, but Vova would bring a bigger return in a trade. Love the guy, and I'll watch him when he's on TV, but there it is.

I don't think he would.

For starters, Tarasenko still has a full NTC and isn't going to go just anywhere in a contract year. Maybe he still has a list of around 10 teams he'd be willing to go to, but I'd wager that list has shrunk a bit. He's playing for his next contract now and he knows that he can be very successful in the situation he is in. he would very likely be selective about a trade destination. ROR has zero trade protection.

ROR is also owed less money. They each carry the same cap hit, but we've already paid ROR's bonus. he only has $1M of remaining salary owed while Tarasenko has $5.5M.

Centers are harder to acquire than wingers and ROR plays center. He's still very much a clear cut 1C and one of the best two way centers in the league. He's been top 5 in Selke voting every year he's been here and was good enough in 2020/21 that he got two votes for Hart. He plays 2+ minutes a night more than Tarasenko and does so in one of the hardest roles on the team. Tarasenko was the team's most sheltered forward last seasaon.

He's outproduced Tarasenko in the playoffs every year he's been on the Blues and his overall game has been dramatically better. Over the last 4 years in the playoffs, ROR has 19 goals, 49 points and a +1 over 51 games. Tarasenko has 19 goals, 28 points and a -16 over 46 games over the same stretch. Just looking at last year, ROR had 7 goals, 12 points and a +3 in 12 games while Tarasenko had 6 goals, 9 points and a -2. ROR had a much better playoffs on the Cup run, winning the Conn Smythe on the way. There isn't any argument that Tarasenko has been the better playoff performer unless you start talking about 2016 or earlier.

I would be shocked if Tarasenko could return more in a trade than ROR. I don't think Army is looking to move either, because we are trying to win right now and finding a trade that doesn't make the team worse in 2022/23 is very unlikely. But if both are made available, I think ROR gets the better return.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

Saad-ROR-Kyrou
Buch-Thomas-Tarasenko

Let Schenn be the backbone of the 3rd line most of the time, with the exception that he can slide into Saad's slot with ROR and Kyrou when we are chasing a game and need to focus on scoring goals (Saad slides down to the 3rd line with Barby sliding to the center spot on the 3rd line).

That's a really good Top 6. With extra offensive opportunities following Perron's departure, I think Buch and Kyrou have a legitimate chance to score 35+ this season.

I really like the idea of Schenn with Barby and Neighbours on the wings too. With Schenn taking Neighbours under his wing over the last year there could be a comfort level there that help Jake make an impact on that third line quickly.

Throw in 4th line production that should easily surpass what we got out of them last season and I don't see this team missing Perron much at all on the stat sheet.

The closer we get to this season, the more I can appreciate Armstrong's ability to put together a strong, deep team despite the cap constraints. I went to the Cards game last night and kept thinking, "Damn, I'm ready for Blues hockey."

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Nearly everyone in Nhl has leadership qualities. If you don’t think these guys were picked bc of their star talent I have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell you.

Dude, there really are beachfront properties in Arizona.

God Bless America!

 

[bleedblue1223]

I know people like focusing on the negative of Army with how he handles negotiations with the aging vets, but here's a good quote on the other side of it. There's 2 sides of every coin. That's the tough part of the business, where you can't keep guys around forever, but when young guys earn something, you build that foundation and make the deals we made.



And on Neighbours. While I like the idea of him developing on the 4th too, I think this is the smart approach going into camp. That 9th spot is very winnable, and could probably argue it's his to lose, so if he ends up in the 10-14 group, he didn't have a good camp. Put that pressure on him and see how he responds.

 

[Meatball]

We have a lot of options on the 4th line it seems, who ya got?

Toro-Accari-Kostin?

 

[STL fan in MN]

We have a lot of options on the 4th line it seems, who ya got?

Toro-Accari-Kostin?

Torpo is injured.

The 4th line is a complete wild card. I’ll guess:

Highmore-Acciari-Pitlick

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

We have a lot of options on the 4th line it seems, who ya got?

Toro-Accari-Kostin?

At least until Toropchenko is healthy, I’d like to see Frk-Acciari-Leivo.

Walker rotating in.

 

[Majorityof1]

Torpo is injured.

The 4th line is a complete wild card. I’ll guess:

Highmore-Acciari-Pitlick

I'd say Acciari is a lock. Toropchenko is probably close to a lock when healthy. I'd also say Walker is a lock for the start of the year. The Blues extended him a year before his contract was up with a one way deal. I'd say he will be a NHL fixture at least. If he's not playing, then one of the healthy scratches. The only way he is not playing is if someone really impresses at camp.

If Kostin doesn't earn the 9th spot, then I'd say he is the last 4th liner. Kostin played well in several games. He just couldn't string anything together consistently. He isn't lazy, so I think he will be working on his game. He may never put it all together, but I think he does enough to get the starting nod when the season starts, When Torop comes back, he will be out if he hasn't found his consistency.

Walker - Acciari - Kostin ----> Walker/Kostin - Acciari - Torop

 

[PocketNines]

Really looking forward to Toropchenko this year. He will return earlier than expected and is highly motivated.

 

[DoubleK81]

At least until Toropchenko is healthy, I’d like to see Frk-Acciari-Leivo.

Walker rotating in.

Frk couldn't stick in the Kings lineup. If he's on the roster for us, theres a problem.

 

[Mike Liut]

I’m still pulling for Kostin. Start on the 4th line and gain confidence and eventually move to the 3rd down the road. Doubt he’s ever a top 6 player. With an aging core and looming FA’s, I hope he can at least be a bottom 6 player. He has the size and toughness I like.

 

[STL fan in MN]

I'd say Acciari is a lock. Toropchenko is probably close to a lock when healthy. I'd also say Walker is a lock for the start of the year. The Blues extended him a year before his contract was up with a one way deal. I'd say he will be a NHL fixture at least. If he's not playing, then one of the healthy scratches. The only way he is not playing is if someone really impresses at camp.

If Kostin doesn't earn the 9th spot, then I'd say he is the last 4th liner. Kostin played well in several games. He just couldn't string anything together consistently. He isn't lazy, so I think he will be working on his game. He may never put it all together, but I think he does enough to get the starting nod when the season starts, When Torop comes back, he will be out if he hasn't found his consistency.

Walker - Acciari - Kostin ----> Walker/Kostin - Acciari - Torop

Walker’s on a two-way contract actually. $300k AHL salary. Not that that really matters on who will or won’t make the team though.

I’d be surprised if Walker didn’t make the team and I think there’s a better than 50% chance he makes the starting 12. But I think people are sleeping on Highmore. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t make the team. And Pitlick is a wildcard. His style fits a traditional 4th line role more than many of his competition and he’s a right shot, something they’re lacking in so that could give him a small edge as well.

Agree that Torpo gets inserted as soon as he’s healthy.

 

[Majorityof1]

Walker’s on a two-way contract actually. $300k AHL salary. Not that that really matters on who will or won’t make the team though.

I’d be surprised if Walker didn’t make the team and I think there’s a better than 50% chance he makes the starting 12. But I think people are sleeping on Highmore. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t make the team. And Pitlick is a wildcard. His style fits a traditional 4th line role more than many of his competition and he’s a right shot, something they’re lacking in so that could give him a small edge as well.

Agree that Torpo gets inserted as soon as he’s healthy.

Walker is currently on the last year of his 2-way deal. He signed a 1-year extention on July 14th which kicks in next year. It pays $775k in NHL and AHL.

You may be right about Highmore. My problem with him is his size. He is my 3rd choice amongst the smalle fries. Running Walker - Accari - Highmore is tiny with none of them over 5'11. If I have to pick 2, its Walker and Accari, and then I'd like to inject some size. Pitlick has the size, but his offensive upside is too low imo. So I went Kostin.

I guess we could put Walker into the top 9, then run Highmore - Accari - Pitlick. I like Highmore's defense and Pitlick's possession game. So that would be a more standard defensive/puck-possession line.

Another name to throw into the mix is Logan Brown. I have not been a big fan, but his time in Springfield did wonders for him. He was much more engaged and physical when he was called back up. His playmaking skills are without question. My only problem is that he is best deployed at C, and he is still not defensively responsible enough to give the 4th line an identity with the other guys who could make that role.

 

[STL fan in MN]

Walker is currently on the last year of his 2-way deal. He signed a 1-year extention on July 14th which kicks in next year. It pays $775k in NHL and AHL.

You may be right about Highmore. My problem with him is his size. He is my 3rd choice amongst the smalle fries. Running Walker - Accari - Highmore is tiny with none of them over 5'11. If I have to pick 2, its Walker and Accari, and then I'd like to inject some size. Pitlick has the size, but his offensive upside is too low imo. So I went Kostin.

I guess we could put Walker into the top 9, then run Highmore - Accari - Pitlick. I like Highmore's defense and Pitlick's possession game. So that would be a more standard defensive/puck-possession line.

Another name to throw into the mix is Logan Brown. I have not been a big fan, but his time in Springfield did wonders for him. He was much more engaged and physical when he was called back up. His playmaking skills are without question. My only problem is that he is best deployed at C, and he is still not defensively responsible enough to give the 4th line an identity with the other guys who could make that role.

Ah, ok. I see what you’re saying now regarding Walker’s contract.

I will hope that Kostin and Brown will take a step to become useful NHLers but I’m not counting on it. I find the hockey sense of both of them to be say subpar for the NHL. Very frustrating to have guys that clearly have NHL tools but not an NHL toolbox so they can’t really effectively use those tools. I think both will see some time on the 4th line but both are ideally 3rd line guys…but I don’t think they’ll be able to get there with this roster. Maybe what may be best for them longterm is to go to a shallower team where they can have more top-9 opportunities.

 

[Daley Tarasenkshow]

Frk couldn't stick in the Kings lineup. If he's on the roster for us, theres a problem.

The Kings actually had a rather stable rotation of players playing in their bottom 6. Even as of right now, they have a better '4th line' than we do. Granted they seem to have 3 pretty comparable lines after their Kopitar line, but still. He has a better chance of cracking the Blues beating out players like Kostin, Leivo, Highmore, Bitten, etc, compared to beating out players like Kupari, Kaliyev, Byfield, Vilardi.

Whether or not he adapts his game to a bottom 6 role remains to be seen, but he has an easier shot of making the Blues than the Kings.

 

[Brian39]

I completely agree with @Majorityof1 about Acciari being a lock for the 4th line. We gave him $1.25M to be the backbone of a 4th line that will likely see a lot of rotation and experimentation around him.

After that, all bets are off. Figuring out the final top 9 forward is more important than figuring out the two 4th line wingers for opening night and that decision directly impacts the 4th line. I think all of Neighbours, Bolduc, Brown, and Kostin are entering camp on roughly equal footing to earn that top 9 job. The team would probably prefer for Neighbours to grab it, but I believe that Army is being honest when he says that he needs to actually earn it to get it. I think Brown and Kostin will both get a serious look for the job if their play in the first couple days of camp suggests that they deserve it.

I don't think Torpo is the lock that many here do. I think Torpo will have an inside track to a spot when he's healthy and based on what I saw out of him last year I think he will win a job. But a good start from a few other guys and/or a couple poor weeks from him could make him the odd man out. MacMac seemed to be a roster lock after a strong 2019/20 that netted him a 2 year, 1 way deal worth $900k per year. He played just 35 NHL games under that contract. The team seems high on Torpo and I think he'd be a near-lock for a roster spot if everyone was healthy and the team had to commit today. Bubt I don't think he's proved enough that camp and the first couple months of the season couldn't force him out of the top 14 forward group.

The 4th line could go a bunch of different directions based on who wins that job. I'm excited for camp. I have Acciari locked in as forward #10, but I think that forwards 9, 11, 12, 13, and 14 (if we get the cap to work) are fully up for grabs.