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GDT: 2020 World Junior Championships

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Raccoon Jesus said:
So is this one of things where Turcotte goes back to Wisconsin, gets back to leading freshman in scoring (he's tied with everyone's darling Zegras btw), and we hold the WJC against him until he does something at the NHL level? Because I'm not sure I can watch that narrative. It's a hell of an overreaction.
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You can think he had a terrible WJC and still think he's an excellent prospect (that is how I feel).

Honestly it's better to realize that he had a terrible WJC and analyze from there rather than go 2014 Mike Richards defense and try and hype him up "Oh my god did you see that backcheck", "Nice play chipping it out of the zone" like many did here (BigKing touched on ppl doing that in one of his posts)

He's still a very good prospect but he has a long way to go. The poor WJC might be a blessing in disguise for both him and Caufield, might prevent either team from doing something insanely stupid like trying to sign them and stick them in AHL as teenagers. I know it's been a decade since we had a prospect this good, but Kings fans need to be patient and realize this isn't a turnkey bluechip NHL player, it's going to take some work and development.
 
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Herby said:
The poor WJC might be a blessing in disguise for both him and Caufield, might prevent either team from doing something insanely stupid like trying to sign them and stick them in AHL as teenagers.
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I'm not sure why it would be insanely stupid for Turcotte to be in the AHL at 19.

The Kings would be able to spend more resources on his development, he would have access to high end sports medicine, and he would be able to adapt to the longer season. Beyond that there is the question of whether Granato is a good coach in the first place.

I don't think going back to college is some sort of guarantee with regards to his development, certainly not to the point where the idea of him playing on the Reign is considered insanely stupid.
 
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SettlementRichie10 said:
No one is calling him a bust. People are just saying he had a bad tournament. Moreover, people are going to naturally feel some anxiety regarding the development of such a critical prospect.

Rebuilding teams just cannot afford to miss on top five bluechip picks like Turcotte.
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You said "I know it's just one tournament, but..."

May not be calling him a bust, and anxiety is normal as is critique, but hanging a 7-game sample size on larger ice where he got Clifford playing time is meh to me. But on the flipside, so is Fagemo eviscerating the tournament. For all we know, Fagemo goes full Poolparty, and Turcotte goes full Mike Richards. Point is, this tournament is damn near never anything to get worked up about. Sure, everyone would like to see every prospect excel, but I'm going to go with the larger body of work in every case.


Herby said:
You can think he had a terrible WJC and still think he's an excellent prospect (that is how I feel).

Honestly it's better to realize that he had a terrible WJC and analyze from there rather than go 2014 Mike Richards defense and try and hype him up "Oh my god did you see that backcheck", "Nice play chipping it out of the zone" like many did here (BigKing touched on ppl doing that in one of his posts)

He's still a very good prospect but he has a long way to go. The poor WJC might be a blessing in disguise for both him and Caufield, might prevent either team from doing something insanely stupid like trying to sign them and stick them in AHL as teenagers. I know it's been a decade since we had a prospect this good, but Kings fans need to be patient and realize this isn't a turnkey bluechip NHL player, it's going to take some work and development.
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The problem isn't evaluating his WJC even if I disagree--the problem is making it more than it is and using that to color over everything else we know about him.
 
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crassbonanza said:
I'm not sure why it would be insanely stupid for Turcotte to be in the AHL at 19.

The Kings would be able to spend more resources on his development, he would have access to high end sports medicine, and he would be able to adapt to the longer season. Beyond that there is the question of whether Granato is a good coach in the first place.

I don't think going back to college is some sort of guarantee with regards to his development, certainly not to the point where the idea of him playing on the Reign is considered insanely stupid.
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Wouldn't they be burning a year of his ELC if he spent the season in Ontario? I'd rather he live in the weight room with the off-time they have at the NCAA level then burn a year of his deal.

He still gets to play against older and stronger competition in the NCAA. I don't think there is a player where we look back and say that his second year of NCAA play really tanked his potential.

If Vilardi can keep from breaking, he is the primary forward to mix in at the NHL level next season. Fagemo will get a crack at the big club but will probably be in Ontario. Kupari is pretty screwed for next season now with this torn ACL but he'll be in Ontario for sure once he's ready to play. He might actually be ready around the start of the season but forget about the NHL. Thomas and Dudas will be in Ontario too so they will already have a pretty nice influx of forwards.

I think Blake and Co. would like him to be ready for the NHL next season but I don't feel like they want him out of college hockey to play in Ontario. While only a sophomore next year, there should be more of a leadership role for him. Let him crush it and continue getting the time to get stronger so the type of game he plays doesn't get him killed once he is playing against 29 year old career minor leaguers looking to decapitate 19 year olds with a bigger contract then they've accumulated their entire career.

All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if they put him on the big club next season. Airing Wisconsin games on FSW and pimping him so hard makes me believe they expected him to be ready. Maybe he will be but I won't care one bit if he is back at Wisconsin.
 
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BigKing said:
Wouldn't they be burning a year of his ELC if he spent the season in Ontario? I'd rather he live in the weight room with the off-time they have at the NCAA level then burn a year of his deal.

He still gets to play against older and stronger competition in the NCAA. I don't think there is a player where we look back and say that his second year of NCAA play really tanked his potential.

If Vilardi can keep from breaking, he is the primary forward to mix in at the NHL level next season. Fagemo will get a crack at the big club but will probably be in Ontario. Kupari is pretty screwed for next season now with this torn ACL but he'll be in Ontario for sure once he's ready to play. He might actually be ready around the start of the season but forget about the NHL. Thomas and Dudas will be in Ontario too so they will already have a pretty nice influx of forwards.

I think Blake and Co. would like him to be ready for the NHL next season but I don't feel like they want him out of college hockey to play in Ontario. While only a sophomore next year, there should be more of a leadership role for him. Let him crush it and continue getting the time to get stronger so the type of game he plays doesn't get him killed once he is playing against 29 year old career minor leaguers looking to decapitate 19 year olds with a bigger contract then they've accumulated their entire career.

All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if they put him on the big club next season. Airing Wisconsin games on FSW and pimping him so hard makes me believe they expected him to be ready. Maybe he will be but I won't care one bit if he is back at Wisconsin.
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From what I gather, if he signs his ELC this year and plays in the AHL next season, his contract will slide unless he plays 10 games with the Kings. After next season his 3 year ELC would begin. So, there would be a benefit if he were to stay in college through his junior/senior season, but not if he stays through his sophomore season.

As for staying in college, I'm personally not overly concerned whether he is there or the AHL. I think there are pros and cons either way, but I don't think one way is overwhelmingly better for development. I will say though, one thing that no one is mentioning with this discussion is that it ultimately will not be Blake's decision. Turcotte is going to be the one deciding whether he wants to go back to college or not.
 
LAKings88 said:
Kopitar
Vilardi
JAD
Lizotte
Amadio
(Carter)
Turcotte

Who moves to wing?
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Carter can definitely wing it. Plus he’ll be done in 2.5 seasons. I don’t see a scenario in which Lizotte is here in two seasons. Not every prospect is going to pan out to be the best ever. It’s not the problem it might appear to be.
 
BigKing said:
Wouldn't they be burning a year of his ELC if he spent the season in Ontario? I'd rather he live in the weight room with the off-time they have at the NCAA level then burn a year of his deal.

He still gets to play against older and stronger competition in the NCAA. I don't think there is a player where we look back and say that his second year of NCAA play really tanked his potential.

If Vilardi can keep from breaking, he is the primary forward to mix in at the NHL level next season. Fagemo will get a crack at the big club but will probably be in Ontario. Kupari is pretty screwed for next season now with this torn ACL but he'll be in Ontario for sure once he's ready to play. He might actually be ready around the start of the season but forget about the NHL. Thomas and Dudas will be in Ontario too so they will already have a pretty nice influx of forwards.

I think Blake and Co. would like him to be ready for the NHL next season but I don't feel like they want him out of college hockey to play in Ontario. While only a sophomore next year, there should be more of a leadership role for him. Let him crush it and continue getting the time to get stronger so the type of game he plays doesn't get him killed once he is playing against 29 year old career minor leaguers looking to decapitate 19 year olds with a bigger contract then they've accumulated their entire career.

All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if they put him on the big club next season. Airing Wisconsin games on FSW and pimping him so hard makes me believe they expected him to be ready. Maybe he will be but I won't care one bit if he is back at Wisconsin.
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Should be about time for Anderson-Dolan to challenge for a full-time roster spot on the Kings next season.
 
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BigKing said:
Wouldn't they be burning a year of his ELC if he spent the season in Ontario? I'd rather he live in the weight room with the off-time they have at the NCAA level then burn a year of his deal.

He still gets to play against older and stronger competition in the NCAA. I don't think there is a player where we look back and say that his second year of NCAA play really tanked his potential.

If Vilardi can keep from breaking, he is the primary forward to mix in at the NHL level next season. Fagemo will get a crack at the big club but will probably be in Ontario. Kupari is pretty screwed for next season now with this torn ACL but he'll be in Ontario for sure once he's ready to play. He might actually be ready around the start of the season but forget about the NHL. Thomas and Dudas will be in Ontario too so they will already have a pretty nice influx of forwards.

I think Blake and Co. would like him to be ready for the NHL next season but I don't feel like they want him out of college hockey to play in Ontario. While only a sophomore next year, there should be more of a leadership role for him. Let him crush it and continue getting the time to get stronger so the type of game he plays doesn't get him killed once he is playing against 29 year old career minor leaguers looking to decapitate 19 year olds with a bigger contract then they've accumulated their entire career.

All that said, I wouldn't be surprised if they put him on the big club next season. Airing Wisconsin games on FSW and pimping him so hard makes me believe they expected him to be ready. Maybe he will be but I won't care one bit if he is back at Wisconsin.
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I going to be up to Turcotte as far as where he wants to go, I'm sure with some input from the Kings, but it's his life. And it sure sounds to me from listening to him he'll want to leave school. It's a big challenge for any 19 year old at the AHL level (ask Kupari). At the same time with his compete and skill (and a higher hockey IQ than Kupari), I think he'd be up to the challenge. It won't burn a year of his ELC unless he plays 10 or more games with the Kings next season. His time in Ontario is irrelevant to his ELC status. And his route to the NHL will be quicker going this route if that's what happens.
 
Everyone should relax concerning Turcotte.

Yes, I also thought he was mostly invisible. I saw three US games at the stadium, and during USA Russia I even googled "Turcotte Russia", searching for an injury news before I realized he was healthy and playing.

However, remember MacKinnon in 2013? He was a 4th liner and had 1 point in 6 games, whereas Drouin got all the hype. Look where they are now...
 
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regulate said:
I going to be up to Turcotte as far as where he wants to go, I'm sure with some input from the Kings, but it's his life. And it sure sounds to me from listening to him he'll want to leave school. It's a big challenge for any 19 year old at the AHL level (ask Kupari). At the same time with his compete and skill (and a higher hockey IQ than Kupari), I think he'd be up to the challenge. It won't burn a year of his ELC unless he plays 10 or more games with the Kings next season. His time in Ontario is irrelevant to his ELC status. And his route to the NHL will be quicker going this route if that's what happens.
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There will definitely be a lot of input from the Kings.

Not losing a year of the ELC makes it not as much of a problem for me; however, I still have zero qualms with him staying in school.
 
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Raccoon Jesus said:
Yeah, I'm way more worried about the elite skating prospect with the ACL injury right now.
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Well, being young is an advantage for him in recovery. Hopefully the surgery and recovery go well. It's amazing what they can do with knee injuries now. But they still worry me when they happen.
 
crassbonanza said:
As for staying in college, I'm personally not overly concerned whether he is there or the AHL. I think there are pros and cons either way, but I don't think one way is overwhelmingly better for development. I will say though, one thing that no one is mentioning with this discussion is that it ultimately will not be Blake's decision. Turcotte is going to be the one deciding whether he wants to go back to college or not.
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The Kings obviously have a pretty good relationship with his coaches, if the Kings advise him to play one more year and go pro immediately after his sophomore season he probably goes that route.


BigKing said:
I don't think there is a player where we look back and say that his second year of NCAA play really tanked his potential.
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Zach Werenski said the same exact thing when he chose to come back to Michigan as a 19 year old. Plenty of players leave early, most work out but some leave too early before dominating that level and greatly damage their development (Mittlestadt&Wahlstrom). But as you and Werenski said, very few guys damage their development by coming back for a 2nd year of college.
 
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kings11 said:
Lizzotte, Amadio, Carter
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Yeah Lizotte is a monster on the wall, honestly. I like his vision at center but that's replaceable. His bulldoggedness, though, isn't.

Frankly even though Vilardi is high end I'm not sure what his skating as an NHL C will be like either.
 
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LAKings88 said:
I can honestly see Amadio being shopped or let go. Carter could draw interest but I’m not expecting him to go. Lizotte is fine in the wing to me.
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If everything works out for LA, Lizotte and Amadio are fourth liners. By then, Carter won't even be on the team.
 
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