WJC: 2020 Team Russia

[Atas2000]

Igor Larionov is one of the classiest hockey players I’ve ever seen. What gives you your less than flattering impression of him, exactly?

He was a great hockey player. As a person he always was an egoistic turd who turned on every person he owed his greatness to and eventually on his country. He was the ringleader and ideologist of the revolt against Tikhnov. He created the myth of Tikhonov the Tyrant. He continues to preach the adoption of every silly crap out of the West in russian hockey instead of honing our own brand of it and developing it beyond anybody's views in our way to be better, not like others. That one time I laughed hard when he had a weak moment and ranted about today's NHL playing the dumb game. Sure, Igor, you were taught to play a much smarter game on a whole diffrent level and then you crapped on every person who taught you that. Sounds logical.

I am sure he can teach young players a lot of things about the game, but on a personal level he is the worst mentor available. If they take after him we are looking at lost generations. For the record: I don't extpect a person from outside to understand.

 

[Atas2000]

I'm not exactly a fan of SKA either but let's face it, after Yugra got demoted it was just a question of where do their best talents move, not if they do it. They chose SKA and there is little wrong with it. Podkolzin is the only one who might be considered "stolen", in a way.

Yugra would have continued developing great prospects. Now it's just gone. Period.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Yugra would have continued developing great prospects. Now it's just gone. Period.

Yugra got those boys from Tyumen (Galenyuk and Morozov) and Barnaul (Marchenko). So what makes them not the talent stealers?

I actually doubt any decent hockey player was born in Khanty-Mansiysk, for that matter. Maybe they will have more time to invest into the local kids now.

 

[Atas2000]

Is Russian youth hockey destroyed?

With half the young talent playing in St.Petersburg? It basically is.

And other schools have no incentive of developing players who run off to NA. To come back to that one AkBars should have Svechnikov and Sergachyov on the roster. That would be reward enough for investing so much miney and sweat into that hockey school. Instead we are forced to live of some 2nd-3rd tier prospects and do the same as SKA, try finding youngsters elsewhere and lure them.

 

[Atas2000]

Yugra got those boys from Tyumen (Galenyuk and Morozov) and Barnaul (Marchenko). So what makes them not the talent stealers?

I actually doubt any decent hockey player was born in Khanty-Mansiysk, for that matter. Maybe they will have more time to invest into the local kids now.

Tyumen and Barnaul don't have KHL teams nor schools for players to grow to that level. I would be all for Perm, Tyumen, Khanty-Mansiysk, Novokuznetsk being in the KHL instead of gimmick foreign teams. Take the money from SKA and give it to them. And Khanty-Mansiysk while not having the schools have proven to be a great development ground. I am a pragmatic. If they have shown they can - more power to them. As in the opposite part of the spectrum I see SKA not developing players well while hoarding them, so take it away from them.

 

[Kshahdoo]

He was a great hockey player. As a person he always was an egoistic turd who turned on every person he owed his greatness and eventually on his country. He was the ringleader and ideologist of the revolt against Tikhnov. He created the myth of Tikhonov the Tyrant. He continues to preach the adoption of every silly crap out of the West in russian hockey instead of honing our own brand of it and developing it beyond anybody's views in our way to be better, not like others. That one time I laughed hard when he had a weak moment and ranted about today's NHL playing the dumb game. Sure, Igor, you were taught to play a much smarter game on a whole diffrent level and then you crapped on every person who taught you that. Sounds logical.

I am sure he can teach young players a lot of things about the game, but on a personal level he is the worst mentor available. If they take after him we are looking at lost generations. For the record: I don't extpect a person from outside to understand.

Lol, stop saying bullshit. I don't know, how old are you, but I'm old enough to remember that story from start to finish. They WERE PROMISED to be released from any obligationas before CSKA, if they won the Olympics 1988, it was a knowwn fact well before the whole conflict started. They won the games, and then Tikhonov refused to let them go. That was as simple as that. He had his reasons, but they had theirs as well. If I were them, I'd have gotten mad as well, you gotta keep your promises no matter what.

 

[SoundAndFury]

With half the young talent playing in St.Petersburg? It basically is.

It was always pretty much like that, in the Soviet era it was all in Moscow, the Russian way. Now we have Moscow, St. Petersburg, Yaroslavl, Kazan and, arguably, Chelyabinsk as major hubs and it all gets redistributed from there.

I wouldn't even say Piter is that dominant at a junior level it's just that their men's team seems to make a habit of hoarding players like you said. Having said that, Ak Bars have iced what, 20 forwards this year? Monkey see, monkey do. Lower profile copy of SKA.

 

[Kshahdoo]

With half the young talent playing in St.Petersburg? It basically is.

And other schools have no incentive of developing players who run off to NA. To come back to that one AkBars should have Svechnikov and Sergachyov on the roster. That would be reward enough for investing so much miney and sweat into that hockey school. Instead we are forced to live of some 2nd-3rd tier prospects and do the same as SKA, try finding youngsters elsewhere and lure them.

Man, Tatarstan has the same number of MHL teams, as S. Peterburg, despite having 1.2 million less people living in it, and Dinamo SPb isn't in SKA system.

 

[Yakushev72]

They can also learn how to be an egomaniac asshat.

I don't disagree with that, but he was the maestro at handling the puck and distributing it to high-scoring wingers. I don't know if it will work out as such, but I am hopeful.

 

[Statsy]

He was a great hockey player. As a person he always was an egoistic turd who turned on every person he owed his greatness to and eventually on his country. He was the ringleader and ideologist of the revolt against Tikhnov. He created the myth of Tikhonov the Tyrant. He continues to preach the adoption of every silly crap out of the West in russian hockey instead of honing our own brand of it and developing it beyond anybody's views in our way to be better, not like others. That one time I laughed hard when he had a weak moment and ranted about today's NHL playing the dumb game. Sure, Igor, you were taught to play a much smarter game on a whole diffrent level and then you crapped on every person who taught you that. Sounds logical.

I am sure he can teach young players a lot of things about the game, but on a personal level he is the worst mentor available. If they take after him we are looking at lost generations. For the record: I don't extpect a person from outside to understand.

Honestly, this is exactly the reasoning I was expecting.

For the record, Larionov didn’t ruin Russian hockey... Pavel Bure did. Now all the Russian young guns want to go 1 on 3 and dangle the entire opposition team to score a highlight-reel goal.

 

[Atas2000]

Honestly, this is exactly the reasoning I was expecting.

For the record, Larionov didn’t ruin Russian hockey... Pavel Bure did. Now all the Russian young guns want to go 1 on 3 and dangle the entire opposition team to score a highlight-reel goal.

Bure was a fine product of soviet hockey. And their line of Bure-Fedorov-Mogilny would probably become the best in history. That is what Larionov ruined with his greed and lack of integrity.
What you describe about Bure is btw what numerous russian players have done in the past, so let's not pretend it's not typical for russian hockey.

As for the bolded. Yeah, we are in different camps. From your point of view our traitors helped you(all of them, the deliberate and the dumb ones, the hockey players and politicians). Just don't forget to wash your hand after you shake hands with a traitor.

 

[Atas2000]

Man, Tatarstan has the same number of MHL teams, as S. Peterburg, despite having 1.2 million less people living in it, and Dinamo SPb isn't in SKA system.

I mean meaningful young talent, not the sheer numbers of players. It seems like holding on to Sorokin is the only scenario in which he is not with SKA by now. Any other promising young goalie sems to end up on SKA with Samonov being the latest "steal". And we are here because of the WJC roster. One complete unit being out of SKA potraits it pretty well.

 

[Atas2000]

It was always pretty much like that, in the Soviet era it was all in Moscow, the Russian way. Now we have Moscow, St. Petersburg, Yaroslavl, Kazan and, arguably, Chelyabinsk as major hubs and it all gets redistributed from there.

I wouldn't even say Piter is that dominant at a junior level it's just that their men's team seems to make a habit of hoarding players like you said. Having said that, Ak Bars have iced what, 20 forwards this year? Monkey see, monkey do. Lower profile copy of SKA.

That again.... Your whataboutism is misplaced. Go read our injury history. Then come back.

 

[Zine]

Igor Larionov is one of the classiest hockey players I’ve ever seen. What gives you your less than flattering impression of him, exactly?

Honestly, this is exactly the reasoning I was expecting.

Larionov was an honorable player, but he’s a shameful businessman.

As a NA based Russian player agent, he never misses an opportunity to publicly badmouth his home country as a means of obtaining clients and getting them to NA.

And he's a dubious agent at that. He was Yakupov's mentor until Nail's father ripped into Larionov in the media for incompetence. He was also fired by Galchenyuk.

 

[Zine]

It was always pretty much like that, in the Soviet era it was all in Moscow, the Russian way. Now we have Moscow, St. Petersburg, Yaroslavl, Kazan and, arguably, Chelyabinsk as major hubs and it all gets redistributed from there.

I wouldn't even say Piter is that dominant at a junior level it's just that their men's team seems to make a habit of hoarding players like you said. Having said that, Ak Bars have iced what, 20 forwards this year? Monkey see, monkey do. Lower profile copy of SKA.

sort of.
In Soviet days most talent went to Moscow, but not at junior level. The elite kids generally stayed with their hometown school/team until they became good in the soviet league. Only then did Moscow come calling.

 

[wetcoast]

He was a great hockey player. As a person he always was an egoistic turd who turned on every person he owed his greatness to and eventually on his country. He was the ringleader and ideologist of the revolt against Tikhnov. He created the myth of Tikhonov the Tyrant. He continues to preach the adoption of every silly crap out of the West in russian hockey instead of honing our own brand of it and developing it beyond anybody's views in our way to be better, not like others. That one time I laughed hard when he had a weak moment and ranted about today's NHL playing the dumb game. Sure, Igor, you were taught to play a much smarter game on a whole diffrent level and then you crapped on every person who taught you that. Sounds logical.

I am sure he can teach young players a lot of things about the game, but on a personal level he is the worst mentor available. If they take after him we are looking at lost generations. For the record: I don't extpect a person from outside to understand.

There is no myth of Tikhonov being a tyrant, don't let his winning cloud that.

 

[SoundAndFury]

That again.... Your whataboutism is misplaced. Go read our injury history. Then come back.

Oh please..

 

[Atas2000]

There is no myth of Tikhonov being a tyrant, don't let his winning cloud that.

Maybe I should believe people who have known him personally all his life rather than the BS from a guy like Larionov. Maybe I should believe my own experience with soviet coaches and similar situations when people who disliked the coach started telling stories. Especially in the 90s, when every other smartass thought he must "vent" about "tyrany".

But what do we know about our country?

 

[Atas2000]

Oh please..

Like in no proper answer you are capable of?

They are trying to dump players they signed because of injuries now.

 

[Atas2000]

sort of.
In Soviet days most talent went to Moscow, but not at junior level. The elite kids generally stayed with their hometown school/team until they became good in the soviet league. Only then did Moscow come calling.

This

 

[Statsy]

Maybe I should believe people who have known him personally all his life rather than the BS from a guy like Larionov. Maybe I should believe my own experience with soviet coaches and similar situations when people who disliked the coach started telling stories. Especially in the 90s, when every other smartass thought he must "vent" about "tyrany".

But what do we know about our country?

Dude, I actually watched Tikhonov coach. Don’t tell me he wasn’t a tyrant! It’s weird that you would try to deny that. Now that all this s#!t has come out about Mike Babcock, you don’t see me coming on denying it’s true just because he helped Canada win tournaments in the past. If you can’t admit Tikhonov was tyrannical, then that just proves how coloured your judgement actually is. Looks like you’re the one that needs to wash you hands clean.

 

[Atas2000]

Dude, I actually watched Tikhonov coach. Don’t tell me he wasn’t a tyrant! It’s weird that you would try to deny that. Now that all this s#!t has come out about Mike Babcock, you don’t see me coming on denying it’s true just because he helped Canada win tournaments in the past. If you can’t admit Tikhonov was tyrannical, then that just proves how coloured your judgement actually is. Looks like you’re the one that needs to wash you hands clean.

Do you even understand what tzrant means? Being a leader is not being tyrannical. The style of hockey Tikhonov perfected was what? Creative. Creativity is not possible without freedom. And let's not even talk about the witch hunting that happens in and around the NHL now. It is hilarious to watch from the outside though.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Like in no proper answer you are capable of?

This

Wait, so what is your issue here? Because you said "I see SKA not developing players well while hoarding them" which they only do at the senior level. You just agreed with Zine that it was the case in the Soviet days as well. So what are you talking about? Other than select couple of talents SKA isn't hoarding anything at the junior level and up until KHL their development is actually quite prolific as is evident watching those boys acquired from Yugra play.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Any insight at all on whether Miftakov is starter or do people think Bragin would go with the younger goalie in Askarov?

 

[Statsy]

Do you even understand what tzrant means? Being a leader is not being tyrannical. The style of hockey Tikhonov perfected was what? Creative. Creativity is not possible without freedom. And let's not even talk about the witch hunting that happens in and around the NHL now. It is hilarious to watch from the outside though.

I FULLY understand what the term means, do you? It means threatening and intimidating your players, and Tikhonov was well known to do this LONG before Larionov said anything about him. His reputation for doing this is among the worst of any coach in the history of the sport! That's saying something.