2020 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread II

[Diamonddog01]

Why would Dallas do this?

Gaudette for Faksa is probably a fairly even swap so they’re basically just doing us a favour.

They’re a rich team who wants to compete who would be willing to spend more money up front to create more cap space, and this involves them doing the exact opposite - giving up cap space to save money.

Perhaps you're right, Dallas has little incentive to do this. My eyes lit up when I saw Faksa. They save 3M in real dollars but this isn't Melynk or the Sens here. Cap hit across the boards are equal for next year however they would be stuck with Eriksson for an extra year at 6M which is obviously brutal.

 

[Hoghandler]

Moving Virtanen is predicated on getting all 3 of Markstrom, Tanev and Toffoli signed.

MS- list your RW depth chart for the ‘21-22 season.

Here is mine-

Boeser
Toffoli
Podkolzin
Leivo/MacEwen

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

LOL. Virtanen is our 5th-best winger behind Miller, Boeser, Toffoli, and Pearson. What, would he be playing behind Ferland who has 1 goal in his last 35 games? Eriksson? Motte?

I could definitely see Travis Green doing something like, Miller-Toffoli, Pearson-Boeser, Roussel-MacEwen, and Eriksson-Sutter as the wing pairs in the play-in round.

Minnesota is a physical team and I could really see the Canucks prioritizing MacEwen in the lineup for that element.

 

[sting101]

I want no part of potentially bringing Toffoli back. I'm not interested in giving what will amount to too much money for a guy who's been THAT inconsistent. If he goes on to be a consistent 30 goal scorer elsewhere, fine, I don't care. He was given every opportunity with the Kings, and his play more often than not was extremely frustrating. Appreciate what he contributed to the 2014 cup, but it was time to move on.

I love Toffoli but he didn't perform when we needed him the last few years. We start tanking then all of a sudden he's good again. Like others have said, he's too inconsistent and better to move on.

I would wait until you see Toffoli play in a season where he isn't up for a new contract before you pass judgment on the "doesn't give up much on the other side of the puck" portion of his game.

Just some comments on Toffoli from the Kings forums after the trade. The first one had about 15likes.

I would echo some of these from my viewings of him as well. Removing his 20 and 21 yr old transition seasons he is a 24 goal scorer per 82 that does not bring much else above average to a top6 other than smarts and crafty hands.

I would say he is below average in work ethic and compete in a 82 game season. Below average in skating, Is pretty durable and decent at puck distribution. Is a solid to above average 2nd line RW who is now 28 and about to start the decline.

How much and for how long is this guy worth committing to?

 

[MS]

Boeser, Toffoli and Leivo were higher on the RW depth chart this season than Jake. A healthy roster likely leaves Jake outside the top 9, which is where he was to finish the year, playing on the 4th line with Jay Beagle - And that’s with Ferland on IR. Then you have Green with an eye on how many penalty killers he has at his disposal, which hurts Virtanen.

If Leivo is healthy the team probably never goes after a Toffoli rental so this is flawed reasoning. Levio and Toffoli will almost certainly never both be in the lineup for the same Canuck game.

Even so, if that was the case a player (likely Leivo who has played LW a bunch in the past) would be shifted to LW rather than play the useless corpse of Eriksson or Roussel there.

As to the 2nd point, is that a straw-man, or are you completely clueless? J.T. Miller is being equated to Marian Hossa. You know, the guy we just traded for that came in and was a two-way beast that was arguably the clubs MVP...

JT Miller might equate to Brian Campbell. You know, the elite defender (top-10 in the league) that the Blackhawks signed the year before Hossa.

After signing Campbell, they then still had the room the next year to go out and get the best two-way winger in hockey. That's how you win Cups. And if this team was managed well, we could be chasing a Hall or Pietrangelo now. But we're not. We're going backward instead.

 

[MS]

I could definitely see Travis Green doing something like, Miller-Toffoli, Pearson-Boeser, Roussel-MacEwen, and Eriksson-Sutter as the wing pairs in the play-in round.

Minnesota is a physical team and I could really see the Canucks prioritizing MacEwen in the lineup for that element.

Unless Virtanen put on 50 pounds during the COVID break, there is no way. Green wouldn't put McEwen in the top 9 in a regular season game, much less the playoffs, and Virtanen is by far the team's biggest/most physical top-9 forward.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I could definitely see Travis Green doing something like, Miller-Toffoli, Pearson-Boeser, Roussel-MacEwen, and Eriksson-Sutter as the wing pairs in the play-in round.

Minnesota is a physical team and I could really see the Canucks prioritizing MacEwen in the lineup for that element.

I don't think Green works that way..He's most definitely going to go with the Motte/Beagle combo, and Sutter..If he's healthy.

If Ferland, Sutter cant go..that may open a spot for MacEwan (sitting Eriksson), but I'm not convinced that he's that high on the pecking order right now.

 

[MS]

Moving Virtanen is predicated on getting all 3 of Markstrom, Tanev and Toffoli signed.

MS- list your RW depth chart for the ‘21-22 season.

Here is mine-

Boeser
Toffoli
Podkolzin
Leivo/MacEwen

Not bringing back a 24 y/o 20-goal winger on a reasonable contract because you think that maybe a teenage Russian prospect might take that spot in 2 years (if we can sign him) is the height of backward management.

You sign Virtanen and if Podkolzin is ready in two years you trade him (or someone else) then.

Toffoli will likely cost over double what Virtanen does for not much different production. You keep your quality depth over blowing your load on a guy who has cleared 50 points once in his career and is a poor skater getting close to 30.

 

[Hoghandler]

If Leivo is healthy the team probably never goes after a Toffoli rental so this is flawed reasoning. Levio and Toffoli will almost certainly never both be in the lineup for the same Canuck game.

Even so, if that was the case a player (likely Leivo who has played LW a bunch in the past) would be shifted to LW rather than play the useless corpse of Eriksson or Roussel there.



JT Miller might equate to Brian Campbell. You know, the elite defender (top-10 in the league) that the Blackhawks signed the year before Hossa.

After signing Campbell, they then still had the room the next year to go out and get the best two-way winger in hockey. That's how you win Cups. And if this team was managed well, we could be chasing a Hall or Pietrangelo now. But we're not. We're going backward instead.

So you agree, Jake Virtanen would be fighting for a 4th line role with a healthy lineup, which is exactly what I said.

For the record, Antoine Roussel has been tremendous for the Canucks. He was set back by the knee surgery, but started to come on down the stretch. This additional 4 months should be good for Roussel. He deserves the 3rd line role he occupies.

JT Miller obviously equates to Marian Hossa. Not sure why you’re so quick to make poor straw-man arguments. It’s not a good look.

Pietrangelo and Hall have absolutely no toes to Vancouver. They weren’t signing here, regardless of the cap. That’s fantasy stuff.

If you’re being honest, the Canucks being tight to the cap cost them a Tyson Barrie. A player I would have no interest signing with the current makeup of the club.

 

[Hoghandler]

Unless Virtanen put on 50 pounds during the COVID break, there is no way. Green wouldn't put McEwen in the top 9 in a regular season game, much less the playoffs, and Virtanen is by far the team's biggest/most physical top-9 forward.

Michael Ferland is easily the teams biggest/most physical top 9 forward.

 

[Hoghandler]

Not bringing back a 24 y/o 20-goal winger on a reasonable contract because you think that maybe a teenage Russian prospect might take that spot in 2 years (if we can sign him) is the height of backward management.

You sign Virtanen and if Podkolzin is ready in two years you trade him (or someone else) then.

Toffoli will likely cost over double what Virtanen does for not much different production. You keep your quality depth over blowing your load on a guy who has cleared 50 points once in his career and is a poor skater getting close to 30.

So what is your best guess for the ‘21-22 season RW depth chart look like?

All of this Virtanen talk Is predicated on re-signing the big 3. Let Toffoli walk and there is a need and cap space for Virtanen. That’s not an argument for this discussion - it’s 100% tied to a Toffoli re-signing.

For the record, I would prefer to re-sign Toffoli and trade Virtanen, unless Toffoli’s demands aren’t palatable.

 

[MS]

Michael Ferland is easily the teams biggest/most physical top 9 forward.

Michael Ferland is garbage who was playing on the 4th line behind Virtanen and had 1 goal in his last 35 NHL games at the time he suffered his concussion.

 

[rypper]

Michael Ferland is easily the teams biggest/most physical top 9 forward.

When has he ever been that in a Canucks uniform?

 

[Hoghandler]

Michael Ferland is garbage who was playing on the 4th line behind Virtanen and had 1 goal in his last 35 NHL games at the time he suffered his concussion.

That’s a horrendous player assessment. Go try and tell Carolina or Flames fans that and you will get laughed off their board. Ferland is a very unique mix of skill, smarts and physicality.

Ferland caught a nasty flu leading into training camp and lost 15lbs. It’s what got him off to a poor start, then injury derailed his season completely.

If you don’t know that Micheal Ferland is a quality top 9 winger, you need to do some digging.

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Unless Virtanen put on 50 pounds during the COVID break, there is no way. Green wouldn't put McEwen in the top 9 in a regular season game, much less the playoffs, and Virtanen is by far the team's biggest/most physical top-9 forward.

I mean, if MacEwen plays I assume it's on a sheltered 4th line with Gaudette.

 

[Hoghandler]

When has he ever been that in a Canucks uniform?

Whenever he suited up for an NHL game?

Guy was easily the Canucks most physical player. Nobody else is even in the conversation.

 

[MS]

So you agree, Jake Virtanen would be fighting for a 4th line role with a healthy lineup, which is exactly what I said.

For the record, Antoine Roussel has been tremendous for the Canucks. He was set back by the knee surgery, but started to come on down the stretch. This additional 4 months should be good for Roussel. He deserves the 3rd line role he occupies.

What? I don't agree at all.

Again, the Toffoli trade only happened because Leivo was injured so it's a make-believe situation you've created, and even then one of them would have been shifted over to LW and Virtanen would be in the top 9.

Roussel wasn't 'coming on' late. He was dropped down the roster and his last 6 games of the season he was averaging under 10 minutes/game.

JT Miller obviously equates to Marian Hossa. Not sure why you’re so quick to make poor straw-man arguments. It’s not a good look.

Pietrangelo and Hall have absolutely no toes to Vancouver. They weren’t signing here, regardless of the cap. That’s fantasy stuff.

If you’re being honest, the Canucks being tight to the cap cost them a Tyson Barrie. A player I would have no interest signing with the current makeup of the club.

You're missing the point entirely which is an even worse look.

Chicago signed a Miller-level player in 2008. Then, the following year, they signed Marion Hossa. The year after we acquired Miller, not only are we not signing a Hossa, we're going to be dumping Versteegs and Byfugliens to try and get the team under the cap because of years of Benning mis-management.

That's the difference between turning your team into a contender and turning your team into the Florida Panthers - a team with a couple nice young pieces that never goes anywhere.

 

[MS]

That’s a horrendous player assessment. Go try and tell Carolina or Flames fans that and you will get laughed off their board. Ferland is a very unique mix of skill, smarts and physicality.

Ferland caught a nasty flu leading into training camp and lost 15lbs. It’s what got him off to a poor start, then injury derailed his season completely.

If you don’t know that Micheal Ferland is a quality top 9 winger, you need to do some digging.

Michael Ferland was a solid 25-point 3rd liner a couple years ago who had his production laughably inflated by his linemates in Calgary/Carolina. Then his body started breaking down and he had 1 goal in his last 35 games before he was injured.

Loui Eriksson used to be a good player, too. Brandon Sutter was really solid for us in 17-18. Both players suck now, and so does Ferland.

 

[Hoghandler]

So your bar for competent management is arguably the closest thing we’ve seen to a modern day dynasty in the Chicago Blackhawks?

Now you’re equating the loss of Stecher and Virtanen to the loss of Byfuglien and Versteeg?

You win the internet again. Take your prize and go home. What else is there to say at this point.

 

[sting101]

Michael Ferland is easily the teams biggest/most physical top 9 forward.

C'mon Ferland is perhaps done and didn't even play this season

Jake actually laces em up.

 

[Hoghandler]

Michael Ferland was a solid 25-point 3rd liner a couple years ago who had his production laughably inflated by his linemates in Calgary/Carolina.

Have you still not figured out why 2 different well run organizations had Micheal Ferland playing on their 1st line?

It’s because he can be a good complementary player. It’s because he’s skilled, and smart.

Yes, he may be forced off the ice due to head injuries. But no, in no way, shape or form is it because ‘he sucks’.

 

[MS]

So your bar for competent management is arguably the closest thing we’ve seen to a modern day dynasty in the Chicago Blackhawks?

Now you’re equating the loss of Stecher and Virtanen to the loss of Byfuglien and Versteeg?

You win the internet again. Take your prize and go home. What else is there to say at this point.

There are 31 teams in this league trying to win a championship. You have to do a brilliant job managing a team to make them be a consistent contender.

If your bar is at Jim Benning-level management, you are never going to see a Cup, or anything close. It is an absolute joke that this team, with their best two players on ELCs and never even having made the playoffs, are going to be forced to cull quality players to get under the salary cap because of $30 million in garbage contracts. If you aren't outraged by this, you don't have a clue.

Why is comparing Jake Virtanen to Kris Versteeg unreasonable? And you remember that Byfuglien was a 35-point middle-6 forward on those teams, right, and not the star defender he became later in Winnipeg?

Byfuglien and Versteeg scored 35 and 44 points respectively in Chicago's 2010 Cup run. They were solid young depth players who did a good job for that team. Much like Stecher and Virtanen here.

 

[Hoghandler]

C'mon Ferland is perhaps done and didn't even play this season

Jake actually laces em up.

If your point is Ferland won’t throw any hits if he’s not dressed, I agree.

If he’s playing, he’s easily the teams biggest, most physical player.

 

[MS]

Have you still not figured out why 2 different well run organizations had Micheal Ferland playing on their 1st line?

It’s because he can be a good complementary player. It’s because he’s skilled, and smart.

Yes, he may be forced off the ice due to head injuries. But no, in no way, shape or form is it because ‘he sucks’.

It's because NHL coaches played in an era where you put Bob Probert on a line with Steve Yzerman.

When Ferland was replaced by Lindholm and Niederreiter on those two lines, their production went through the roof. Ferland was holding them back.

But no, he didn't always suck. He was a solid role player. Then his body started breaking down. Now he sucks.

 

[Hoghandler]

There are 31 teams in this league trying to win a championship. You have to do a brilliant job managing a team to make them be a consistent contender.

If your bar is at Jim Benning-level management, you are never going to see a Cup, or anything close. It is an absolute joke that this team, with their best two players on ELCs and never even having made the playoffs, are going to be forced to cull quality players to get under the salary cap because of $30 million in garbage contracts. If you aren't outraged by this, you don't have a clue.

Why is comparing Jake Virtanen to Kris Versteeg unreasonable? And you remember that Byfuglien was a 35-point middle-6 forward on those teams, right, and not the star defender he became later in Winnipeg?

Byfuglien and Versteeg scored 35 and 44 points respectively in Chicago's 2010 Cup run. They were solid young depth players who did a good job for that team. Much like Stecher and Virtanen here.

Me not being outraged isn’t because I don’t have a clue. I’m not outraged because I find nothing more pathetic than the sight of a grown man that is constantly outraged. I’m supposed to whip myself up in rage because the Canucks MIGHT be forced to walk away from a couple middling players? Not gonna happen.

No, I’m not going to equate losing Stecher and Virtanen to losing Byfuglien, Versteeg, Ladd etc. You’re on your own with that one.