2020 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread II

[MS]

We did hear about, years ago, from Jason Botchford, and your denial is nearly an identical but opposite phrasing of his affirmation.

We have no confirming reports at all as to the extent of it, and absolutely zero other supporting evidence. Instead we have Jim Benning constantly being videoed leading trade discussions, reported as having trade discussions, and openly discussing the trade discussions he's having in local media.

Again, there may have been a point circa the 2017 UFA period where Linden was more involved (the speed with which those signings were dispatched and Benning's lack of attachment to them after Linden was marginalized is telling) but that isn't helping any arguments because that was the least-awful summer this regime has ever had. I suspect Botchford's article probably refers to this period, because there is no way in hell it's referring to what happened 2014-2016. Or 2018.

There are 30 other markets in this sport with GMs and media groups. If Trevor Linden was regularly inserting himself into trade discussions and driving those trade discussions along, that shit would be *EVERYWHERE* in the media. You honestly think Trevor Linden could have been driving trade negotiations for this team for years, and no report would ever link him to any specific discussion with any team or any trade that this team completed? It's preposterous.

What's being argued here is that there was some sort of massive conspiracy to paint Jim Benning as the GM with control over hockey operations while the President super-secretly, for years, was actually the guy running all trades. And was somehow doing that while Jim Benning was LITERALLY BEING VIDEOTAPED leading trade discussions. Somehow, all the reports of Benning being involved in trade discussions for years are fabricated, including the constant references to trade discussions by Benning himself. And yet, not a single reporter ever from this city or any other one has ever identified a single move that Linden was directly involved in! He's a ghost!

This is like saying that Bill Gates is putting microchips in vaccines to that brainwash people into thinking the earth is round.

 

[BB06]

One of the easiest cap saving swaps I'd make is Tanev for Demlo. I wouldn't pay Markstrom either that's like a bad contract asking to happen.

 

[MS]

Mind numbing that you can look at the scouting in the 5-10-20 year window leading up to Bennings hire and compare it to what has transpired under his watch and not call that anything but a marked improvement at the draft table. It’s orders of magnitude better.

It’s universally recognized by every single media member in this market that drafting has been turned around for the better since Benning came aboad. This isn’t being disputed by anyone, except for you.

You can keep trying to pin all the success on a single person, in Judd Brackett. But at some point you need to clue in to the fact this team drafted like garbage under Gillis, with Brackett at the table. It was Benning’s decision to revamp and re-shuffle his staff that led to success.

Weren’t you complaining when Crawford was fired and claiming Ron Delorme is now going to take on a major role, which would lead to the Canucks demise? I’m going to assume yes.

I have a feeling you will be wrong again. With Benning this time handing the reins over to a young, upstart in Todd Harvey. Time will tell.

If Jim Benning turned this team's drafting around, why is every good pick a player from Judd Brackett's region? Why are we just as terrible as ever at drafting from the CHL?

For the record, here are the CHL picks since Benning 'fixed' our drafting :

Guillaume Brisebois
Carl Neill
Tate Olson
Olli Juolevi
Cole Candella
Jakob Stukel
Rodrigo Abols
Brett McKenzie
Kole Lind
Jonah Gadjovich
Michael Dipietro
Petrus Palmu
Matt Brassard
Jett Woo
Ethan Keppen
Carson Focht

Literally the only selection there that looks like it might be an actual good pick is Dipietro. 1/16. Biggest junior league in the world that most NHL players come from, and we've actually gotten worse scouting there under Benning than Gillis.

 

[bandwagonesque]

We have no confirming reports at all as to the extent of it, and absolutely zero other supporting evidence. Instead we have Jim Benning constantly being videoed leading trade discussions, reported as having trade discussions, and openly discussing the trade discussions he's having in local media.

Again, there may have been a point circa the 2017 UFA period where Linden was more involved (the speed with which those signings were dispatched and Benning's lack of attachment to them after Linden was marginalized is telling) but that isn't helping any arguments because that was the least-awful summer this regime has ever had. I suspect Botchford's article probably refers to this period, because there is no way in hell it's referring to what happened 2014-2016. Or 2018.

There are 30 other markets in this sport with GMs and media groups. If Trevor Linden was regularly inserting himself into trade discussions and driving those trade discussions along, that shit would be *EVERYWHERE* in the media. You honestly think Trevor Linden could have been driving trade negotiations for this team for years, and no report would ever link him to any specific discussion with any team or any trade that this team completed? It's preposterous.

What's being argued here is that there was some sort of massive conspiracy to paint Jim Benning as the GM with control over hockey operations while the President super-secretly, for years, was actually the guy running all trades. And was somehow doing that while Jim Benning was LITERALLY BEING VIDEOTAPED leading trade discussions. Somehow, all the reports of Benning being involved in trade discussions for years are fabricated, including the constant references to trade discussions by Benning himself. And yet, not a single reporter ever from this city or any other one has ever identified a single move that Linden was directly involved in! He's a ghost!

This is like saying that Bill Gates is putting microchips in vaccines to that brainwash people into thinking the earth is round.

There's some legitimate points here, but they're mixed in with so many shrill, incoherent strawmen that it's too exhausting to even parse it all. Bold move, and it paid off.

 

[tyhee]

This is absolutley correct. Jim Benning does not view players as assets to value. There are only players he wants, and whether or not he can pay the cost to get them, and players he wants to get rid of, and what he can get for them at the moment he wants to dump them.

... of which the last described above could soon become

players he wants to get rid of, and what he will have to give up to move them at the moment he wants to dump them.

 

[MS]

There's some legitimate points here, but they're mixed in with so many shrill, incoherent strawmen that it's too exhausting to even parse it all. Bold move, and it paid off.

What an incredibly lame response.

Please explain how Trevor Linden could have been the driving force behind trade negotiations for this team for 3-4 years and in the literally *thousands* of media reports about the dozens of moves we made and potential moves we could have made, there isn't a single mention of Linden leading negotiations or being heavily involved in negotiations for a single one of those moves.

Like, this stuff doesn't stay hidden. It's common knowledge that Aquilini was meddling in a Brad Richards deal with Nonis in 2008 and in the Tortorella coach hiring. But Linden was, like, making major trades and signings here that the GM wasn't involved in or didn't agree with and nobody ever reported a thing? You actually believe that?

Especially given that Linden is gone and if he'd rigged or directed or negotiated the Gudbranson or Eriksson transactions you can damned well bet your house that the remaining management would have been positively running to leak that information through a guy like IMac and take the heat off themselves for those moves. But nope. Silence.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

I love how all the sudden Botch's word is taken as absolute fact, but before when he reported that the Canucks received an offer of SJ's first rounder for Ryan Miller, he is a lying hack who made stuff up for clickbait.
Pick a side and stick to it people!

 

[Hoghandler]

If Jim Benning turned this team's drafting around, why is every good pick a player from Judd Brackett's region? Why are we just as terrible as ever at drafting from the CHL?.

If Judd Brackett was responsible for the improved drafting, why was the drafting pitiful in the years leading up to Bennings hiring? Brackett was here for those failures.

Brackett, as well as a handful of other US scouts have done an excellent job. But if not for Benning re-building the scouting staff, and moving Brackett way up the totem pole, you can’t assume that improvement would have occurred.

If Benning came in, fired Crawford, replaced him with Ron Delorme and the team drafted like crap, would you be sitting here saying Benning wasn’t responsible for it? That Ron Delorme was responsible?

Come on. You’re smarter than that.

 

[Peter10]

Not according to Jason Botchford..Essentially, its your word against his.

Just to put some perspective in it, here is a longer quote

Jason Botchford: Canucks’ nosedive likely didn’t help Linden’s relationship with regime

That was a hint things were different, because in the years after Linden was hired he became increasingly involved in day-to-day hockey operations.
In fact, it would be Linden on trade calls and making big hockey decisions. There were times when people in the organization would say “Linden is running this team.” At the time, it came as a surprise for some, who thought Linden was originally hired to be more of a figurehead.

That would indicate that he probably was barely involved till 2016-ish and took a more hands on approach in the later stage of his tenure. You know, kind of like 2017 onwards when it started to get less bad.

 

[vancityluongo]

Just to put some perspective in it, here is a longer quote

Jason Botchford: Canucks’ nosedive likely didn’t help Linden’s relationship with regime



That would indicate that he probably was barely involved till 2016-ish and took a more hands on approach in the later stage of his tenure. You know, kind of like 2017 onwards when it started to get less bad.

It's amazing how entrenched people are in defending Jim Benning that they'd like to slander... Trevor Linden.

 

[Hoghandler]

‘People in the organization would say Linden is running this team’.

Why the hell has this never been talked about on this board? Of all the inane nonsense that gets hatched up repeatedly, this isn’t noteworthy?

And my god has pro scouting done a complete 180 since Linden left town. Looks like it’s safe to say Trevors influence on personnel was, uh, underwhelming, to say the least.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Just to put some perspective in it, here is a longer quote

Jason Botchford: Canucks’ nosedive likely didn’t help Linden’s relationship with regime



That would indicate that he probably was barely involved till 2016-ish and took a more hands on approach in the later stage of his tenure. You know, kind of like 2017 onwards when it started to get less bad.

Not really..2017 was when ownership most likely started circumventing Linden and dealing directly with Benning

Linden was fired the following year.

 

[MS]

If Judd Brackett was responsible for the improved drafting, why was the drafting pitiful in the years leading up to Bennings hiring? Brackett was here for those failures.

Because Judd Brackett was a young USHL scout and we hadn't taken a USHL player since 2007?

Again, why is the CHL scouting still so bad? Answer the question. If Jim Benning reformed our scouting so well and it wasn't just Judd Brackett individually making some good picks, we should see success stories everywhere.

And if the scouting measures Benning put in worked so well, why was he pushing to take Olli Juolevi and Cody Glass over Matthew Tkachuk and Elias Pettersson? Doesn't sound like he knows what he's doing to me, and doesn't seem like a scout that bad could actually revamp a scouting staff successfully.

Brackett, as well as a handful of other US scouts have done an excellent job. But if not for Benning re-building the scouting staff, and moving Brackett way up the totem pole, you can’t assume that improvement would have occurred.

If Benning came in, fired Crawford, replaced him with Ron Delorme and the team drafted like crap, would you be sitting here saying Benning wasn’t responsible for it? That Ron Delorme was responsible?

Come on. You’re smarter than that.

I've given credit to Benning for hiring Brackett on multiple occasions, although there are also reports that he was a Linden hire (and quite obviously became a 'Linden guy' very early in his tenure, at worst). If Benning did hire Brackett, it's one of the only good things he's ever done.

That credit is then negated by the fact that Benning alienated Brackett, forced him out, and lost his best scouting asset.

If Benning had brought back Delorme in full force, I'd be criticizing both.

 

[Diamonddog01]

To take an isolated quote by, or regarding, Linden and spin it into some weird narrative...who would ever do such a thing?

Maybe if we keep repeating it we can eventually get some members of the media to post a few ambiguous tweets about it and then claim it’s been conclusively proven over and over. Wouldn’t that be exciting.

 

[rypper]

LEAKED video footage of Trevor Linden pulling the strings acting as GM and making trades.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Delete

 

[sting101]

Yes the GM responsible for re structuring our amateur scouting department, making the selections, setting the directives, the criteria, identifying and hiring the best candidate to help guide us into the most important timeline in 20yrs for rebuilding the organization is void of credit

Embarrassing

 

[tradervik]

Delete

Your fantasy roster is extreme but I kind of like it.

 

[sting101]

LEAKED video footage of Trevor Linden pulling the strings acting as GM and making trades.

Damn i knew Linden wanted Sutter.

 

[Diablo2020]

Loui Eriksson and Adam Gaudette
for
Andrew Cogliano, Stephen Johns, Radek Faksa

Canucks buyout Cogs and Johns as soon as they can.

Cogliano's buyout costs $2,166,667 cash, Johns buyout costs $1,366,667.

So Dallas gets Loui for $1,466,666 cash or $733,333 a year which is basically league min

Canucks save $3,933,334 this year and $4,233,334 next year

Both Gaudette and Faksa are RFA likely to get around 2-2.5, Canucks get the defensive checking center, Dallas gets a potential 2nd line center.

 

[Hoghandler]

Don’t think it would be unreasonable to assume you could package Demko to get rid of one of Baertschi/Sutter, then package Virtanen with one of Baertschi/Sutter.

Deal Roussel for a pick/prospect. I think a team like Buffalo would really covet what Roussel brings.

Let Stecher walk, or deal his rights for a pick.

Attach something to Benn to get a team to bite, if need be.

Add those moves up and you’re getting close to getting our free agents under the cap. I have a feeling people are underestimating how tough a year it’s going to be for free agents. Gonna be a buyers market, like we’ve never seen.

Does it suck to move assets to clear cap? Sure. But I don’t think any of those moves are going to be all that meaningful in the end.

 

[m9]

Don’t think it would be unreasonable to assume you could package Demko to get rid of one of Baertschi/Sutter, then package Virtanen with one of Baertschi/Sutter.

Deal Roussel for a pick/prospect. I think a team like Buffalo would really covet what Roussel brings.

Let Stecher walk, or deal his rights for a pick.

Attach something to Benn to get a team to bite, if need be.

Add those moves up and you’re getting close to getting our free agents under the cap. I have a feeling people are underestimating how tough a year it’s going to be for free agents. Gonna be a buyers market, like we’ve never seen.

Does it suck to move assets to clear cap? Sure. But I don’t think any of those moves are going to be all that meaningful in the end.

It can be done for sure. Here was a potential roster from a few days ago:

Trying a difference approach to building the roster..

One of the main criticisms of how Benning has built this team is how much money is spent on the bottom of the roster. Keeping that in mind, what about using this off-season to start to fix the roster by keeping the most important players. To me, that would be your top four wingers, top three centers, top five defensemen, and starting goaltender. Then whoever is not part of that group, try to extract enough value to keep those 13 players under contract.

G - Markstrom
D - Hughes, Tanev, Edler, Myers, Stecher
C - EP, Horvat, Gaudette
W - Miller, Boeser, Pearson, Toffoli

Of course to keep all of them, that means using your non-core pieces with value in some sort of combination with your bloated contracts. The players outside of this core group that have value to me are Virtanen & Demko. I've left teams off as for now it's somewhat irrelevant, just trying to secure some of sort of value. You may also have to do separate deals to get the same value, but again I'll try to keep it simple:

Trade #1 - Demko, Baertschi, & a 4th for a 2nd
Trade #2 - Virtanen, Sutter & a 3rd for a 2nd, 5th

Signings:
Toffoli: 4x4.8
Gaudette: 1x1.6
MacEwen: 2 x 0.75
Bailey: 1 x 0.8
Tanev: 4 x 5.25
Markstrom: 4 x 5.5
Stecher: 1 x 2.5

Miller	5.25	Pettersson	0.925	Toffoli	4.8
Pearson	3.75	Horvat	5.5	Boeser	5.875
Roussel	3	Gaudette	1.6	Ferland	3.5
Motte	1.1	Beagle	3	MacEwen	0.75
Bailey	0.8	Eriksson	6
Hughes	0.917	Tanev	5.25
Edler	6	Myers	6
Benn	2	Stecher	2.5
Rafferty	0.7
Markstrom	5.5
Domingue	0.9
Spooner	1.034
Luongo	3.034
19/20 Bonus	1.7
Forwards	45.85
Defense	23.37
Goal	6.4
Other	5.768
Total	81.39
Cap	81.5

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is definitely a better team in 2020-21 than most rosters that either have Baertschi/Sutter buyouts or retention, plus also refills the draft picks a bit. The goal would be to field the best roster possible in 2020-21 while the EP/Hughes contracts are still cheap. Obviously losing Virtanen/Demko has some impact, though I'm not sure how much. I've also tried to avoid using any of the fantasy-land tricks like Ferland going on IR or Eriksson/Baertschi walking away from their deals.

 

[Hoghandler]

Does that fit under the cap? Looking at it quickly, it seems over...

I would remove Stecher, Benn and Roussel’s salaries. Those 3 could be replaced internally on the cheap.

 

[Skirbs1011]

Don’t think it would be unreasonable to assume you could package Demko to get rid of one of Baertschi/Sutter, then package Virtanen with one of Baertschi/Sutter.

Deal Roussel for a pick/prospect. I think a team like Buffalo would really covet what Roussel brings.

Let Stecher walk, or deal his rights for a pick.

Attach something to Benn to get a team to bite, if need be.

Add those moves up and you’re getting close to getting our free agents under the cap. I have a feeling people are underestimating how tough a year it’s going to be for free agents. Gonna be a buyers market, like we’ve never seen.

Does it suck to move assets to clear cap? Sure. But I don’t think any of those moves are going to be all that meaningful in the end.

The problem with packaging players with sutter and bae is that they are off the books after next season. A mid round pick or a swap of picks should be enough. If I'm using Demko as a sweetener it's for a contract with multi years remaining being Eriksson, Beagle or Roussell.

 

[m9]

Does that fit under the cap? Looking at it quickly, it seems over...

I would remove Stecher, Benn and Roussel’s salaries. Those 3 could be replaced internally on the cheap.

All the calculations are there, it's under the cap. Not sure it's a smart roster long-term, but for next season it looks good.