2020 Roster and Fantasy GM Thread II

[Lackhalak]

Just musing on this:

Core comparison between Colorado and Vancouver:

Landeskog
Mackinnon
Rantanen
Makar
Girard

Kadri

Byram
Timmins
Kaut
Newhook

-----

Miller
Pettersson
Boeser
Hughes
Horvat

Gaudette
Demko
Podkolzin
Rathbone

First group is core, and the second group is players that could become core.

How do others see it?

you are forgetting Annunen

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Wasn't sure where else to put this but I'd legitimately be happy if MS ran the canucks with Bad Goalie running the farm. Think they've been right 80%+ of the time on stuff from the past 6-7 years.

 

[Cogburn]

So...flat cap for 3 years? I think we'll see some contracts that will fit with in the confines of our structure come about now. Short terms, mind you, but if reports are to be believed, shaving a few hundred thousand of each of our UFA/RFA contracts, buying out Sutter and either trading Eriksson for Ryan at half retention, or even not...and we're better before the cap news.

Marky has shown his hand, he wants to stick around.

We're holding Toffoli's BFF hostage for another year.

Tanev seems like a classic home town discount guy.

Stecher probably doesn't want to roam too far or put too much into going elsewhere.

Virtanen has played ball, salary wise, so far.

Gaudette has no arbitration rights.

What can Tryamkin, MacEwen and Motte really claim for salary at this stage?

Leivo's a likely casualty (salary versus role as a 13th forward...plus where do we play him?). Unless we dump Eriksson without a contract coming back.

Baertschi could even impress in the play ins/offs and free up more space, otherwise it's 500k in savings (versus burying him) and an additional year to hold on to that new cap hit...so...yeah, probably not a buy out.

This is such a weird off season.

 

[Peter10]

So...flat cap for 3 years? I think we'll see some contracts that will fit with in the confines of our structure come about now. Short terms, mind you, but if reports are to be believed, shaving a few hundred thousand of each of our UFA/RFA contracts, buying out Sutter and either trading Eriksson for Ryan at half retention, or even not...and we're better before the cap news.

Marky has shown his hand, he wants to stick around.

We're holding Toffoli's BFF hostage for another year.

Tanev seems like a classic home town discount guy.

Stecher probably doesn't want to roam too far or put too much into going elsewhere.

Virtanen has played ball, salary wise, so far.

Gaudette has no arbitration rights.

What can Tryamkin, MacEwen and Motte really claim for salary at this stage?

Leivo's a likely casualty (salary versus role as a 13th forward...plus where do we play him?). Unless we dump Eriksson without a contract coming back.

Baertschi could even impress in the play ins/offs and free up more space, otherwise it's 500k in savings (versus burying him) and an additional year to hold on to that new cap hit...so...yeah, probably not a buy out.

This is such a weird off season.

Letting Leivo go is far from enough to make it work even if everyone you mentioned is taking very team friendly contracts which is unlikely to happen. At the very best only two of Markstrom, Toffoli and Tanev can be extented. If all three are signed, the team has to be gutted significantly elsewhere.

 

[Cogburn]

Letting Leivo go is far from enough to make it work even if everyone you mentioned is taking very team friendly contracts which is unlikely to happen. At the very best only two of Markstrom, Toffoli and Tanev can be extented. If all three are signed, the team has to be gutted significantly elsewhere.

Are you anticipating Tanev getting a huge raise, on par with what Toffoli and Markstrom will be making?

And it's not so much about the deals being team friendly just to throw the team a bone...the bottom is going to fall out of the market for UFA players.

It's also Leivo going out, Sutter being bought out (Benn if we are walking the razors edge too) and I'm still hoping to see that Eriksson for a retained Ryan deal happen (although I did say I'm not factoring that in yet).

I'm just thinking the flat cap might be beneficial for us, at least compared to a number of teams that signed these big contracts lately.

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

Wasn't sure where else to put this but I'd legitimately be happy if MS ran the canucks with Bad Goalie running the farm. Think they've been right 80%+ of the time on stuff from the past 6-7 years.

Yes, I too would love MS running the team. We'd have waived Edler 5 years ago, signed Eddie Lack to a 5 year, 25 million dollar contract, drafted Gabe Vilardi and Noah Dobson over Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes, have Brendan Gaunce locked in as our 3rd line center, ah what a dream...

 

[Blue and Green]

Leivo's a likely casualty (salary versus role as a 13th forward...plus where do we play him?).

Leivo isn't a 13th forward; he's a good third-line winger who can play both sides and isn't set up for a sizeable contract. The cap situation doesn't allow for Boeser-Toffoli-Virtanen as the 1-2-3 RW's. If his knee seems recovered before free agency time rolls around I'd be wanting Leivo back as the presumptive #3 RW.

 

[Cogburn]

Leivo isn't a 13th forward; he's a good third-line winger who can play both sides and isn't set up for a sizeable contract. The cap situation doesn't allow for Boeser-Toffoli-Virtanen as the 1-2-3 RW's. If his knee seems recovered before free agency time rolls around I'd be wanting Leivo back as the presumptive #3 RW.

I'd argue he would be getting close to Virtanen, or at least close enough to make us consider Virtanen over Leivo. He is UFA, where as Virtanen is RFA, which makes a difference in contract negotiations.

And he would be a 13 forward here. Ferland, Motte, Virtanen and Roussel all seem to be preferred when he has been healthy, haven't they? I wish I could remember every detail before the covid delay, but I remember Leivo as a scratch a fair bit before we got Toffoli.

 

[Diablo2020]

I dont know why everyone likes the idea of a Bobby Ryan trade. We dont save enough to really make it worthwhile and we'd require Bobby Ryan to want to come here.


Eriksson and Baertschi for Schneider

We buyout Schneider, its 2m x 4y.

If they buyout Schneider, its 8m cash.

Eriksson/Baertschi costs NJ 7.4m total cash.

They save 600k and add two wingers.

We save 7.36m capspace.

 

[Blue and Green]

I'd argue he would be getting close to Virtanen, or at least close enough to make us consider Virtanen over Leivo. He is UFA, where as Virtanen is RFA, which makes a difference in contract negotiations.

And he would be a 13 forward here. Ferland, Motte, Virtanen and Roussel all seem to be preferred when he has been healthy, haven't they? I wish I could remember every detail before the covid delay, but I remember Leivo as a scratch a fair bit before we got Toffoli.

Leivo has never been a healthy scratch with the Canucks. He played in every game this season until the kneecap fracture. Leivo was playing on the second and third lines; Motte on the fourth line. Leivo is a far better player than Motte.

 

[Diablo2020]

Tyler Myers, Troy Stecher, Petrus Palmu
for
Radek Faksa, Stephen Johns, Julius Honka

Dallas adds two desperately needed RHD upgrades and rids themselves of Honka's drama and Johns' injury troubles.

Heiskanen - Myers
Lindell - Klingberg
Oleksiak - Stecher

Faksa and Stecher are both RFA likely to sign around the same 2.2 and 2.325 they did previous.

Dallas adds 3.65m by going from Johns to Myers, Canucks drop 5m by buying out Johns after

 

[Blue and Green]

Eriksson and Baertschi for Schneider

We buyout Schneider, its 2m x 4y.

If they buyout Schneider, its 8m cash.

Eriksson/Baertschi costs NJ 7.4m total cash.

They save 600k and add two wingers.

We save 7.36m capspace.

For Schneider to be bought out, the trade would have to be done before/within the end-of-season buyout window, which means that Loui's signing bonus for next season would still be due, so add $3M to the total cash due to Eriksson & Baertschi.

Besides, teams have to buy out contracts at a 2:1 ratio of cash paid : cap space savings (and that's only on base salary; signing bonuses have to be paid in full). That sort of sets the market cash rate on cap space; no team would take on an extra $7M in cap hit to save a relatively puny amount of cash.

 

[Diablo2020]

Once ive cleared 12 mill capspace above, I rebuild the defense.

Cal Foote, Ryan Mcdonagh (675k retained)
for
Jordie Benn, Nikita Tryamkin, Vasili Podkolzin

Tyson Barrie 6 yrs (6,166,666)
Chris Tanev 3 yrs (5,000,000)
Ryan Mcdonagh 6 yrs (6,075,000)
Alexander Edler 1 yr (6,000,000)
Cal Foote 1 yr (925,000)
Quinn Hughes 1 yr (925,000)

 

[Diablo2020]

For Schneider to be bought out, the trade would have to be done before/within the end-of-season buyout window, which means that Loui's signing bonus for next season would still be due, so add $3M to the total cash due to Eriksson & Baertschi.

Besides, teams have to buy out contracts at a 2:1 ratio of cash paid : cap space savings (and that's only on base salary; signing bonuses have to be paid in full). That sort of sets the market cash rate on cap space; no team would take on an extra $7M in cap hit to save a relatively puny amount of cash.

As far as I understand it, Loui is due a 3 million dollar cheque on Wednesday, or July 15 depending on who you hear it from, regardless of what is happening. His employment contract may be extended with the NHLPA signing off on it, but that bonus is done and dealt with.

Once the season ends, and they open a buyout window, this is when this deal is struck. Like this weird years equivalent of whatever time Oprik got traded last yr then immedietly bought out.

They are pretty likely to be buying out that deal since its 8 mill or pay him 6 mill for next year alone..

Is 600k savings and two free forwards not enough incentive?

Isnt anything Loui or Sven chip in pure profit at that point?

Isnt that what teams do, they find players that make 5 mill but take up 12 mill in capspace? Isnt that what everyone assumes Melnyk wants Loui for in a Ryan trade? Isnt NJ gonna be garbage with lots of room to spare, technically only adding 3.36 in cap for one year of Sven?

This isnt a team eating a Marleau deal where is a bad contract for a pick, this is still bad contract for bad contract. Wheres our incentive for adding Schneider? Its capspace in lieu of cash since cash is the same. Aqua man eats 8 mill cheque to Schneids to save us 7.36 on capfriendly.

 

[Blue and Green]

As far as I understand it, Loui is due a 3 million dollar cheque on Wednesday, or July 15 depending on who you hear it from, regardless of what is happening. His employment contract may be extended with the NHLPA signing off on it, but that bonus is done and dealt with.

Once the season ends, and they open a buyout window, this is when this deal is struck. Like this weird years equivalent of whatever time Oprik got traded last yr then immedietly bought out.

They are pretty likely to be buying out that deal since its 8 mill or pay him 6 mill for next year alone..

Is 600k savings and two free forwards not enough incentive?

Isnt anything Loui or Sven chip in pure profit at that point?

Isnt that what teams do, they find players that make 5 mill but take up 12 mill in capspace? Isnt that what everyone assumes Melnyk wants Loui for in a Ryan trade? Isnt NJ gonna be garbage with lots of room to spare, technically only adding 3.36 in cap for one year of Sven?

600k cash savings and two "free" forwards-- one of whom was in the AHL for almost the entire season, the other a low-level player who was a frequent healthy scratch-- is definitely not enough incentive to take $7M+ in added cap space. Everybody knows how valuable cap space is; no team is going to sell it off so cheaply. A lot of teams are in tight cap situations and will be looking to make deals with the few clubs like New Jersey that have cap room.

The other thing is that due to escrow, the actual cash savings on these contracts will be less than the nominal base salary.

I don't know the date of Loui's bonus payment for next season but it might be affected by the extension of the end of the league year. Contracts that were supposed to expire on June 30 will be extended until September if the playoffs go ahead and are completed. Without seeing his contract we don't know if the language calls for a bonus payment on a specified date, e.g. July 1, or if it says something like "first day of the League Year" which would mean a delay from the normal timing. I would think that it would be the latter as the teams and the league (or at least, their lawyers) should be shrewd enough to ensure that they aren't in a position of having to pay bonuses for next season while this season is still ongoing.

 

[Diablo2020]

600k cash savings and two "free" forwards-- one of whom was in the AHL for almost the entire season, the other a low-level player who was a frequent healthy scratch-- is definitely not enough incentive to take $7M+ in added cap space. Everybody knows how valuable cap space is; no team is going to sell it off so cheaply. A lot of teams are in tight cap situations and will be looking to make deals with the few clubs like New Jersey that have cap room.

The other thing is that due to escrow, the actual cash savings on these contracts will be less than the nominal base salary.

I don't know the date of Loui's bonus payment for next season but it might be affected by the extension of the end of the league year. Contracts that were supposed to expire on June 30 will be extended until September if the playoffs go ahead and are completed. Without seeing his contract we don't know if the language calls for a bonus payment on a specified date, e.g. July 1, or if it says something like "first day of the League Year" which would mean a delay from the normal timing. I would think that it would be the latter as the teams and the league (or at least, their lawyers) should be shrewd enough to ensure that they aren't in a position of having to pay bonuses for next season while this season is still ongoing.

600k cash savings
750k league min forward Baertschi replaces
750k league min forward Eriksson replaces

Thats 2.1 million cash savings, should offset any escrow differences and then some.

Baertschi with 2 yrs coming off injuries had no value, your correct.

Baertschi after a full AHL year with one year remaining should have some value, even if NJ flips him for a 5th at the deadline.

Eriksson's 13 points would be the 9th highest scoring forward on the Devils last year. He's worthless to us but Devils could at least use him on either wing for 2 years while their young forwards mature.

Without knowing the specifics yes the timeframe of a deal like this could be tricky due to contracts, bonuses and buyout windows but thats the armchair part of this its perfect storm based.

Aquaman paying out a 3 million dollar cheque to Loui, then paying out a 8 million dollar buyout to Schneider, back to back, is a whole different perfect storm..

 

[sting101]

Leivo isn't a 13th forward; he's a good third-line winger who can play both sides and isn't set up for a sizeable contract. The cap situation doesn't allow for Boeser-Toffoli-Virtanen as the 1-2-3 RW's. If his knee seems recovered before free agency time rolls around I'd be wanting Leivo back as the presumptive #3 RW.

Same. Leivo on a 1yr makes a lot of sense for both parties.
Especially with MacEwen and Lind who could fill in and develop at league minimum but mostly because Podkolzin will be a top9 fixture by 21/22 and having Toffoli at bloated dollars is not good cap allocation for a team that needs to be selective going forward.

 

[sting101]

Once ive cleared 12 mill capspace above, I rebuild the defense.

Cal Foote, Ryan Mcdonagh (675k retained)
for
Jordie Benn, Nikita Tryamkin, Vasili Podkolzin

Tyson Barrie 6 yrs (6,166,666)
Chris Tanev 3 yrs (5,000,000)
Ryan Mcdonagh 6 yrs (6,075,000)
Alexander Edler 1 yr (6,000,000)
Cal Foote 1 yr (925,000)
Quinn Hughes 1 yr (925,000)

Wow

 

[Peter10]

Are you anticipating Tanev getting a huge raise, on par with what Toffoli and Markstrom will be making?

And it's not so much about the deals being team friendly just to throw the team a bone...the bottom is going to fall out of the market for UFA players.

It's also Leivo going out, Sutter being bought out (Benn if we are walking the razors edge too) and I'm still hoping to see that Eriksson for a retained Ryan deal happen (although I did say I'm not factoring that in yet).

I'm just thinking the flat cap might be beneficial for us, at least compared to a number of teams that signed these big contracts lately.

Even if he is taking just the same money as now it wont fit. If they just keep the exact same team with the same salaries (so even with Markstrom signing for 3.67m) they sit at a ~87.5m cap hit.

 

[Peter10]

Yes, I too would love MS running the team. We'd have waived Edler 5 years ago, signed Eddie Lack to a 5 year, 25 million dollar contract, drafted Gabe Vilardi and Noah Dobson over Elias Pettersson and Quinn Hughes, have Brendan Gaunce locked in as our 3rd line center, ah what a dream...

Oh look, a new account posting about stuff that happend 5 years ago. This is going to end well...

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Hypothetically if the Canucks wins the placeholder lotto and got the #1 pick, would you guys consider either of the trades below?
Van trade #1 overall + Gaudette for Ott #5 overall + Chabot
Van do it to completely rebuilt the blueline with Chabot + Drysdale (#5 overall), still have a solid core up front.
Ott do it to get the best prospect in the 2020 draft, plus a top center prospect at #3 overall, plus Gaudette as a 2nd line C going forward. Branstrom is ready to take over from Chabot.
I think thats too steep for the Sens, so how about trade #2.
Van trade #1 overall to Ott for #5 overall and Branstrom.
Van still rebuilt their blueline, Ott gets 2 of the 3 best prospects in this draft.

Possible or no even close?

 

[Blue and Green]

600k cash savings
750k league min forward Baertschi replaces
750k league min forward Eriksson replaces

Thats 2.1 million cash savings, should offset any escrow differences and then some.

Baertschi with 2 yrs coming off injuries had no value, your correct.

Baertschi after a full AHL year with one year remaining should have some value, even if NJ flips him for a 5th at the deadline.

Eriksson's 13 points would be the 9th highest scoring forward on the Devils last year. He's worthless to us but Devils could at least use him on either wing for 2 years while their young forwards mature.

Baertschi is totally tanked in value at his cap hit. Benning made it clear that the Canucks had tried to trade Baertschi for next to nothing-- no takers. Eriksson is one of the worst contracts in the entire league.

Dumping Marleau's cap hit (1 x $6.25M) cost the Leafs a 1st-round pick. Dumping Bickell's cap hit (1 X $4.5M) required Chicago to give up Teravainen for only a 2nd + a 3rd. New Jersey would calculate how much cap space savings the Canucks could net from the transaction compared and then make their asset demand accordingly.

 

[Diablo2020]

Baertschi is totally tanked in value at his cap hit. Benning made it clear that the Canucks had tried to trade Baertschi for next to nothing-- no takers. Eriksson is one of the worst contracts in the entire league.

Dumping Marleau's cap hit (1 x $6.25M) cost the Leafs a 1st-round pick. Dumping Bickell's cap hit (1 X $4.5M) required Chicago to give up Teravainen for only a 2nd + a 3rd.

Schneider is owed 12 million over two years or 8 million over 4 years in a buyout.

We are taking that obligation in exchange for 7.4 million dollars in contracts for Eriksson and Baertschi, combined.

Marleau cost a 1st because it was a 3.5 million dollar cheque, plus 6+ mill capspace, and no bad contract coming back.

Bickell cost a discounted Teuvo because again, it was one team getting one bad contract plus the 4+ million cap and salary.

This is more Clarkson for Horton than either of the two above.

 

[Blue and Green]

Schneider is owed 12 million over two years or 8 million over 4 years in a buyout.

We are taking that obligation in exchange for 7.4 million dollars in contracts for Eriksson and Baertschi, combined.

Marleau cost a 1st because it was a 3.5 million dollar cheque, plus 6+ mill capspace, and no bad contract coming back.

Bickell cost a discounted Teuvo because again, it was one team getting one bad contract plus the 4+ million cap and salary.

This is more Clarkson for Horton than either of the two above.

To reiterate: I highly doubt that Eriksson will be paid his signing bonus prior to the start of the next league year. On that premise, New Jersey can simply buy out Schneider for $8M in cash, which is what Loui is still owed in cash on his contract, and save themselves $4M million in cap room. There's no benefit to them to trade Schneider for Loui straight up, never mind taking on another cap-dump in Baertschi as part of the deal.

 

[Sneezy]

View attachment 351150

Amazing isn't it?

You just can't make this stuff up.