Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part VII

[Edge]

Of those three, the one I want by far the most is Amirov. From everything I've seen people say here, he sounds like another Buch. And if one Buch is good, 2's even better

I think he's a different player and I can't say Buch is the name that jumps out.

He's better defensively at the same age, I don't think he's quite as naturally gifted offensively, and he plays a smarter, more consistent game two-way game.

Whereas Buch can appear to be flaoting at times, or not giving you everything he has, I kind of feel like Amirov is the opposite approach.

You tend to come away thinking he's not leaving much on the table, but you wonder if there's enough there to play a more prominent role in the NHL.

Buch flirted with a 27 goal pace a few years back, and was pacing at aroung 55 this season. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be on the cusp of a few 25 goal, 60 point seasons.

That seems more on the higher end for Amirov who might be more comfortable at that 20 goal/40 point kind of peak level.

I don't know who first made the Buch comparison, but I really don't see it too much.

 

[UnSandvich]

I think he's a different player and I can't say Buch is the name that jumps out.

He's better defensively at the same age, I don't think he's quite as naturally gifted offensively, and he plays a smarter, more consistent game two-way game.

Whereas Buch can appear to be flaoting at times, or not giving you everything he has, I kind of feel like Amirov is the opposite approach.

You tend to come away thinking he's not leaving much on the table, but you wonder if there's enough there to play a more prominent role in the NHL.

Buch flirted with a 27 goal pace a few years back, and was pacing at aroung 55 this season. It's not out of the realm of possibility that he could be on the cusp of a few 25 goal, 60 point seasons.

That seems more on the higher end for Amirov who might be more comfortable at that 20 goal/40 point kind of peak level.

I don't know who first made the Buch comparison, but I really don't see it too much.

I more meant philosophically, in that he's not the go-to guy on a top line, but is the support player that makes the line click at a level above what his presence would seem to suggest. Look at Kreider & Zibanejad's numbers with Buchnevich as the 3rd man vs. someone else

 

[Edge]

I more meant philosophically, in that he's not the go-to guy on a top line, but is the support player that makes the line click at a level above what his presence would seem to suggest. Look at Kreider & Zibanejad's numbers with Buchnevich as the 3rd man vs. someone else

If I were to set a best case scenario for Amirov, where all the pieces fall into the right place, and he clicks with our elite talent, I'd love for him to assume a role similar to Palat.

Maybe not quite the 2013-2015 version, but more in line with what we've seen from 2015 to now.

 

[Leetch3]

I know people aren't digging the "safe" approach for 22, but prospects like Holloway, Amirov and Greig are the types who project as the types of forwards you want for the grind of a championship run. None are expected to be the leading scorers on their pro teams, nor are they likely to finish among the top scorers from the draft class. However, they could be the types who help a top team truly gel.

we should stop associating 'safe' with not good...I think the impression people get is that it means the player doesn't have talent but that isn't what is meant by 'safe' and on the flipside just cause a guy has a high upside that doesn't mean its a good pick

 

[Raspewtin]

I have a odd question. Jamie Benn was a steal as a 5th pick pick. my question is what players in the mid to later rounds can be the steal and maybe a 1st line 2ed line forward down the road? you see players like this all the time.

Jamie Benn didn't fully commit to hockey until he was 16 and was a terrible skater.

 

[Edge]

we should stop associating 'safe' with not good...I think the impression people get is that it means the player doesn't have talent but that isn't what is meant by 'safe' and on the flipside just cause a guy has a high upside that doesn't mean its a good pick

I've advocated this approach for years.

I think we caught up in buzz words like floor, ceiling, safe, upside, risk, reward, etc. We also get caught up in highlight reel clips, skill competition like talents, and the idea that the best draft pick is inherently the one who posts the most points or plays on the top line.

The truth is always a bit more complicated, or at least more nuanced than that.

A kid like Amirov, whether he goes in the teens, or in the mid-20s, is not going to be the fancy pick. He's not likely to be highest scoring pick, or the guy who appears on the cover of a video game, or likely to be his selecting team's best player in 5 years.

What he could be is a key component to their forward group, who can line up on either side, play in all situations, compliment more skilled offensive players, or help more defensive minded players counter-punch another team's top line.

Frankly, there's a trio of guys who fit that mold a little bit more (and have different approaches to doing it) - Holloway, Amirov and Greig. Each has their pros and cons, and some might provide better "value" for the draft position later in the first, but all are in the same broad "support player" category for me.

 

[Ghost of jas]

If I were to set a best case scenario for Amirov, where all the pieces fall into the right place, and he clicks with our elite talent, I'd love for him to assume a role similar to Palat.

Maybe not quite the 2013-2015 version, but more in line with what we've seen from 2015 to now.

If we’re getting a Palat in Amirov, I am totally fine.

 

[Edge]

If we’re getting a Palat in Amirov, I am totally fine.

Remember, I always like to caution these things by saying "if everything falls into place."

You could get Palat. Or you could get Namestnikov. So just a fair warning on that.

Same thing with Ridly Greig. You could get a guy who brings similar value to Dubinsky/Callahan/Konowalchuk, or you could get a more modest return.

The upside projections always make for a more attractive sales point.

 

[Leetch3]

I've advocated this approach for years.

I think we caught up in buzz words like floor, ceiling, safe, upside, risk, reward, etc. We also get caught up in highlight reel clips, skill competition like talents, and the idea that the best draft pick is inherently the one who posts the most points or plays on the top line.

The truth is always a bit more complicated, or at least more nuanced than that.

A kid like Amirov, whether he goes in the teens, or in the mid-20s, is not going to be the fancy pick. He's not likely to be highest scoring pick, or the guy who appears on the cover of a video game, or likely to be his selecting team's best player in 5 years.

What he could be is a key component to their forward group, who can line up on either side, play in all situations, compliment more skilled offensive players, or help more defensive minded players counter-punch another team's top line.

Frankly, there's a trio of guys who fit that mold a little bit more (and have different approaches to doing it) - Holloway, Amirov and Greig. Each has their pros and cons, and some might provide better "value" for the draft position later in the first, but all are in the same broad "support player" category for me.

we definitely get caught up in buzzwords and labels and also nhl comparisons...in particular upside. I think alot of people would rather have guy with 'top 6' potential even if the likelihood of reaching it is lower over a guy with 'middle 6' potential with a higher chance of success despite the fact that 'top 6' and 'middle 6' overlap and both could be referring to a 2nd liner.

we all want a top 2 center...but if that isn't available the 3 guys you mentioned seem like good complimentary players to support the guys we already have. and its not even slightly 'off the board' since mckenzie has amirov @ 19, Holloway @ 16 and Greig @ 24 so they might have 'less' upside but the talent is there. it depends on who is on the board but I don't think any would be a bad pick...

btw RLR nhl comparison for Amirov is Elias Lindholm who we want to trade for lol

 

[Edge]

we definitely get caught up in buzzwords and labels and also nhl comparisons...in particular upside. I think alot of people would rather have guy with 'top 6' potential even if the likelihood of reaching it is lower over a guy with 'middle 6' potential with a higher chance of success despite the fact that 'top 6' and 'middle 6' overlap and both could be referring to a 2nd liner.

we all want a top 2 center...but if that isn't available the 3 guys you mentioned seem like good complimentary players to support the guys we already have. and its not even slightly 'off the board' since mckenzie has amirov @ 19, Holloway @ 16 and Greig @ 24 so they might have 'less' upside but the talent is there. it depends on who is on the board but I don't think any would be a bad pick...

btw RLR nhl comparison for Amirov is Elias Lindholm who we want to trade for lol

I think there's an expectation that all first round picks need to be top six forwards to be successful. It's the second and third rounds where you find middle six players, and second and third pair defensemen, etc. But that's not always the case --- especially when you get deeper into the first round.

re: the Lindholm-Amirov comparison. I can see that a little bit. I think there's some overlap there with style and abilities at the same level. I know the Rangers really like Amirov and he's going to be in the mix, so that makes a lot of sense from a team perspective. I don't read RLR so I was unaware of the comparison.

I feel fairly confident saying that Askarov, Amirov, Holloway, Lapierre and Greig are in the Rangers 11-22 range.

The challenge is nailing down their specific rank in that range, figuring out the remaining 7 names, and knowing where the mystery names rank.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Jamie Benn didn't fully commit to hockey until he was 16 and was a terrible skater.

With the 10th Overall Selection in the 2010 NHL Draft, I've just been McIl-triggered.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

I'd be fine taking Amirov at 11/12 when they were at that spot, so sign me up if he somehow drops to 22

 

[Heckler81]

Is draftsim website down? I try to do the draft and I get virus pop up spam page instead.

 

[Leetch3]

Is draftsim website down? I try to do the draft and I get virus pop up spam page instead.

works for me.

 

[Thirty One]

Is draftsim website down? I try to do the draft and I get virus pop up spam page instead.

How much pornography do you watch on the device you're accessing it on?

 

[Leetch3]

I really like what i'm reading/seeing about Amirov and Greig, both sound like they could be good complimentary players that also have some upside and skill...

the concern/red flag though is their listed size and the fact that their weights start with 16*...you expect kids to be small and need to play gain weight, thats normal. and neither guy seems to play a soft game or shy away from contact. but they are currently beyond small to the point that it would be extremely tough for them to be successful in the nhl. both probably need to add 20+ lbs first...

but then again if they were currently 20lbs heavier they might be top 10

 

[Heckler81]

works for me.

every site works for me except draftsim. It’s so weird.......

 

[Edge]

every site works for me except draftsim. It’s so weird.......

Glad to know FireFighterSpankings dot com is still alive and well for you.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I really like what i'm reading/seeing about Amirov and Greig, both sound like they could be good complimentary players that also have some upside and skill...

the concern/red flag though is their listed size and the fact that their weights start with 16*...you expect kids to be small and need to play gain weight, thats normal. and neither guy seems to play a soft game or shy away from contact. but they are currently beyond small to the point that it would be extremely tough for them to be successful in the nhl. both probably need to add 20+ lbs first...

but then again if they were currently 20lbs heavier they might be top 10

If the Rangers wind up taking one of them, I fully expect to read stories in the days after the draft where we find out that they knew his father/uncles/cousins were all over 6'1".

 

[Leetch3]

If the Rangers wind up taking one of them, I fully expect to read stories in the days after the draft where we find out that they knew his father/uncles/cousins were all over 6'1".

neither guy is that short...greig is listed at 5'11 and amirov is listed at 6'0, so its not like they are 5'6. they have the height to add that needed weight and i'm sure it will come but it wouldn't surprise me if it took a couple years before you see them in the nhl

 

[Edge]

If the Rangers wind up taking one of them, I fully expect to read stories in the days after the draft where we find out that they knew his father/uncles/cousins were all over 6'1".

In my career it's been funny to see the transition with heights.

When I started there was a very real push from players, agents, teams, etc. to list guys at 6'0. That was the magic number. Somehow if you were 5'11, 195 you were undersized. But if we could list you at 6'0, 200, it was a whole new ballgame.

These days, from what I hear, it's far, far less of a thing.

But I can remember working on the NYR media guides in the late 90s and Brian Leetch suddenly becoming 6'1, 200 pounds one year in his last 20s.

 

[Leetch3]

In my career it's been funny to see the transition with heights.

When I started there was a very real push from players, agents, teams, etc. to list guys at 6'0. That was the magic number. Somehow if you were 5'11, 195 you were undersized. But if we could list you at 6'0, 200, it was a whole new ballgame.

These days, from what I hear, it's far, far less of a thing.

But I can remember working on the NYR media guides in the late 90s and Brian Leetch suddenly becoming 6'1, 200 pounds one year in his last 20s.

its the same as listing the price of an item at $9.99 instead of $10, it 'looks' better lol.

but I think in the current NHL size is much less of a concern unless you are talking about the extremes...the game has shifted away from the 'you can't teach size' mentality but you still need to be able to handle facing grown men.

random thought though on the listed sizes...sometimes you are seeing old listings from their teams and those numbers get 'updated' to the official listings at the combine....but there was no combine this year so do we even know if the listed height/weight is even accurate or current?

 

[gravey9]

In my career it's been funny to see the transition with heights.

When I started there was a very real push from players, agents, teams, etc. to list guys at 6'0. That was the magic number. Somehow if you were 5'11, 195 you were undersized. But if we could list you at 6'0, 200, it was a whole new ballgame.

These days, from what I hear, it's far, far less of a thing.

But I can remember working on the NYR media guides in the late 90s and Brian Leetch suddenly becoming 6'1, 200 pounds one year in his last 20s.

I feel like the focus is on the combo of height and weight. So, like if you're 5'9" 150 that seems riskier. And you might slide down draft boards unless you're can't miss talented.

Whereas Kravtsov is 6'4" 165, which is still super light but he's so tall it's less risky. Esp when you look at E. Pettersson who's very successful at 6'2" 175.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Glad to know FireFighterSpankings dot com is still alive and well for you.

Is that the one next to British Boarding School Spankings? Asking for a friend

 

[Savant]

Remeber, I always like to caution these things by saying "if everything falls into place."

You could get Palat. Or you could get Namestnikov. So just a fair warning on that.

Same thing with Ridly Greig. You could get a guy who brings similar value to Dubinsky/Callahan/Konowalchuk, or you could get a more modest return.

The upside projections always make for a more attractive sales point.

Does Konowalchuk see himself in Grieg? No wonder we like him