Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part VII

[GAGLine]

What do you guys think of Joni Jurmo?

 

[aufheben]

What do you guys think of Joni Jurmo?

Sounds like a guy we’ll never remember drafting tbh.

 

[Edge]

Does Konowalchuk see himself in Grieg? No wonder we like him

Kidding aside, I’ve suspected he might.

 

[QJL]

I can’t say I’m thrilled about our list of targets. I’m totally on board with a three zone high IQ player like Amirov or a crazy skill Player with eyes and agility like Khusnutdinov.

Mercer would be next, no skill really stands out. Not seeing the upside. Just solid all around.

Holloway I have bordering the first round. He’s got the tools but I just don’t think he put it together well in the first year of college.

Lapierre is quite a skater and a playmaker. I’m coming around. Injuries are a concern but I don’t place a huge weight on that. I’m just not seeing this top 10 level skill people keep talking of.

I’m just perplexed by the Greig enthusiasm. Bottom 6 upside in my opinion. He feels like a far less talented version of Mercer. Bland.

I’m still hoping for the right deal that lands us Jarvis or Lundell.

If we’re at 22, Gunler is definitely the realistic selection I want.

 

[GAGLine]

Holloway I have bordering the first round. He’s got the tools but I just don’t think he put it together well in the first year of college.

I’m just perplexed by the Greig enthusiasm. Bottom 6 upside in my opinion. He feels like a far less talented version of Mercer.

Holloway started slow, but scored well to end the season. Given the way the entire team struggled, I wouldn't hold it against him.

Regarding Greig, like Holloway, he plays the type of game we need. He may only be a bottom 6 player in the NHL, but that's still valuable. I mean, how many top 6 players do we need? As of now, we don't have any other picks until the 3rd round. I'd be very happy getting a 3rd liner with grit and a high motor with the 22nd pick.

 

[QJL]

Holloway started slow, but scored well to end the season. Given the way the entire team struggled, I wouldn't hold it against him.

Regarding Greig, like Holloway, he plays the type of game we need. He may only be a bottom 6 player in the NHL, but that's still valuable. I mean, how many top 6 players do we need? As of now, we don't have any other picks until the 3rd round. I'd be very happy getting a 3rd liner with grit and a high motor with the 22nd pick.

I think this is too deep of a draft to settle for Greig at 22. That type of player will be around in the 2nd round and there will be a few of them. Would rather have Heineman or Neighbours than Greig. They do similar things and play with more fire. I’d be very surprised if we aren’t picking somewhere in the 2nd round after everything unfolds.

 

[Harbour Dog]

Like it or not, the Rangers have scoped in on Greig.

I'm going to spend time over the next week watching and reading whatever analysis of him I can find. It sounds like he is an easy prospect to warm up to, even if he doesn't flash the same level of skill as some of the boomier guys that will be around that pick.

edit - FWIW, the Black Book has him ranked #14

 

[Savant]

Kidding aside, I’ve suspected he might.

I saw what you did there!

 

[broadwayblue]

Isn't Greig a LW? Seems like we should be set on those for a while.

 

[Leetch3]

LMAO so vince used the draft simulator...then wrote an article about who he picked and then tried to pass it off as a 'mock draft' for an article...and he gets paid to right an article that is basically any random post in this thread.

 

[Edge]

Isn't Greig a LW? Seems like we should be set on those for a while.

Some debate as to whether he is a LW or a Center.

Personally, I project him as a LW.

 

[Joey Bones]

We're going to have guys on our D who can bring the offense. One thing we don't have is the unpredictable asshole factor. You're going to get blasted for taking someone like Kleven over X, Y and Z but if Kleven can play good defense and do a kind of Kloucek impersonation of some sort the fans will brighten up to the idea (contrary to what some might think here Rangers fans really enjoy when it's one of our guys steamrollering one of the opposition)--keeping in mind that if he ends up like Dylan McIlrath they'll never let you forget. Well you still got Lafreniere--so maybe they will because that will be a brilliant bit of drafting on your part.

The teams that are going to get the grind and grit guys are the teams that are going to pay for them and we're looking ahead at at least 3 years of flat cap--let's even say 4 or 5 because from what I can see our overall national economy is truly f***ed. I would note that of the 3 remaining teams--Dallas, Tampa and the Islanders have all got big, gritty or smaller gritty guys they're playing every night. Just saying. If we're chasing around very small skilled forwards and we don't have any foreseeable openings for them in the near or far future we're kind of chasing chimeras. I like Robins because I think he could fit into a kind of Casey Cizikas role--Nybeck I don't know what our future plans could be for him. It won't be on the left wing and we have Kakko and Buchnevich right now on the right. Someone like Heineman and Cuylle might have a 2nd line ceiling but if they can bang bodies and fit into 3rd lines roles that works for me. Anyway I like the idea of drafting some of these guys--doing the ELC and 2nd contract thing with them for a while than spend a boatload of cap space on the likes of Komarov and Clutterbuck. The more we can do to build from within the better.

Lolol, don't get me wrong there are plenty of players I would take at No. 22. I'm more so wanting NYR to trade the pick for a younger player (preferably on an ELC) to help the center depth and provide more offense or disruption defensively. Kleven would cause an uproar within the fanbase, but I think he's a different player from McIlrath. More defensive minded with pretty little offensive potential, IMO, but would be a mainstay on the back end within the top 4 (at best). Think a guy like Marc Methot with better skating. McIlrath had the potential to be defensive minded with an offensive touch. Something to a more mobile Trouba, in a way. It's unfortunate that his knee never fully healed until two years after the injury and even then he hasn't fully put together his game. Sucks he never panned out.

I hear you on the grind guys, but if I'm NYR management, I would think you'd want to get the potential game changers on the ELC during the flat-cap. Grind guys can come in at under $1M-$2M a year and could contribute and provide depth immediately. Bring in a few on smaller deals, have them battle in camp and see where your depth lies throughout the season. In flat cap, the top 6, top 4 and, in some cases, starting goalie are the ones you want to have control paying for while they contribute. That's why I feel grabbing some guys that could provide some "steal" worthy offense later on in their careers would trump the grind hockey.

Don't get me wrong, though, NYR could use some homegrown grinders. I wouldn't be opposed to either way of thinking.

 

[broadwayblue]

Some debate as to whether he is a LW or a Center.

Personally, I project him as a LW.

Do you really see them taking 2 LW in the 1st round? Seems like a stretch to me with us already having Panarin and Kreider in the fold...not to mention the presumptive pick of Lafreniere.

 

[Edge]

Do you really see them taking 2 LW in the 1st round? Seems like a stretch to me with us already having Panarin and Kreider in the fold...not to mention the presumptive pick of Lafreniere.

They could potentially view him as a center as part of their ranking.

But assuming they don’t, I don’t really get the sense that it would be an issue.

The Rangers haven’t really shied away from drafting players for whom they already have other options - be it RD, LD, or even Center in 2017/2018.

If Greig is there guy, I don’t think it’ll be an issue.

 

[broadwayblue]

They could potentially view him as a center as part of their ranking.

But assuming they don’t, I don’t really get the sense that it would be an issue.

The Rangers haven’t really shied away from drafting players for whom they already have other other options - be it RD, LD, or even Center in 2017/2018.

If Greig is there guy, I don’t think it’ll be an issue.

But you have to admit our LW depth is likely going to be deeper than it has ever been after our 1st pick. Even if you move Kreider to the right side your top two LW are still set for the next 5 plus years. Perhaps as you suggest they see him as a C.

 

[Edge]

But you have to admit our LW depth is likely going to be deeper than it has ever been after our 1st pick. Even if you move Kreider to the right side your top two LW are still set for the next 5 plus years. Perhaps as you suggest they see him as a C.

I would say it would potentially look deep, if not almost comical on paper. But I’ve often found that paper depth and NHL depth don’t often resemble each other nearly as much as one would think.

I feel confident that Greig is in the Rangers top 20. Obviously I’m not sure exactly where at this point. But I can’t say I would be completely taken aback if they have him higher.

Unfortunately I won’t know until afterwards, if I ever know at all.

 

[Joey Bones]

What do you guys think of Joni Jurmo?

From what I've seen, he looks to be a nice two-way option within the bottom-4 if everything pans out. Outstanding skater both on offense and defense, he can cover the ice very well. He's got very good stick handling and poise while skating that fast, controls the play to make that good first pass or QB'ing a PP. His wrist shot is low and hard so that it can go for a deflection in front or a rebound to follow up on. Defensively, he's got an always active stick, disruptive enough to clear out breakouts and short-man opportunities. He covers his position well, too, where he could use his active stick to retrieve pucks and send them out for the breakout or clearing the zone.

The downside, ATM, he's not overly physical. He would go into the boards to attempt to collect the puck, but doesn't push his way to it, if that makes sense. Kind of accepts the loss and then goes back to play coverage. His slap shot isn't the best, either. It's not bad, but definitely needs torque. He, also, makes some lapses in judgment while controlling the puck on the blue line, sometimes turning over the puck for a breakaway the other way.

He's not a bad pickup, but needs time to work on his tools. I wouldn't mind selecting him in the 3rd round, think he's a late 2nd round talent. There's definitely some risk in the pick, but he seems to be on a good developing team in JYP.

 

[Leetch3]

But you have to admit our LW depth is likely going to be deeper than it has ever been after our 1st pick. Even if you move Kreider to the right side your top two LW are still set for the next 5 plus years. Perhaps as you suggest they see him as a C.

but it all depends on who is still on the board when the pick came up...I think all things being equal they'd rather he be a center but organizational depth can change in a hurry especially over 5 years, so get the guy you think is the best player...

and also keep in mind that they might also view some of the Cs in that range as guys that project as wingers in the nhl as well

 

[eco's bones]

Lolol, don't get me wrong there are plenty of players I would take at No. 22. I'm more so wanting NYR to trade the pick for a younger player (preferably on an ELC) to help the center depth and provide more offense or disruption defensively. Kleven would cause an uproar within the fanbase, but I think he's a different player from McIlrath. More defensive minded with pretty little offensive potential, IMO, but would be a mainstay on the back end within the top 4 (at best). Think a guy like Marc Methot with better skating. McIlrath had the potential to be defensive minded with an offensive touch. Something to a more mobile Trouba, in a way. It's unfortunate that his knee never fully healed until two years after the injury and even then he hasn't fully put together his game. Sucks he never panned out.

I hear you on the grind guys, but if I'm NYR management, I would think you'd want to get the potential game changers on the ELC during the flat-cap. Grind guys can come in at under $1M-$2M a year and could contribute and provide depth immediately. Bring in a few on smaller deals, have them battle in camp and see where your depth lies throughout the season. In flat cap, the top 6, top 4 and, in some cases, starting goalie are the ones you want to have control paying for while they contribute. That's why I feel grabbing some guys that could provide some "steal" worthy offense later on in their careers would trump the grind hockey.

Don't get me wrong, though, NYR could use some homegrown grinders. I wouldn't be opposed to either way of thinking.

FWIW Kleven would cause an uproar among the fanbase until he actually made the team and started running guys. I haven't seen Tyler play--what I've read about him doesn't remind me so much of McIlrath as Tomas Kloucek but for other purposes someone like Brooks Orpik before he got older and his skating bogged down. Kloucek didn't last long either because of injury but before he skated very well--one of his main issues actually was chasing hits but in his brief time with the Rangers he became a fan favorite.

Anyway if the Rangers traded the #22 for a young ELC player I'd want someone we could plug right in......and honestly I know a lot of people like Julien Gauthier but I'd want a player more ready than he is--someone who no question could play and contribute now.

 

[Joey Bones]

FWIW Kleven would cause an uproar among the fanbase until he actually made the team and started running guys. I haven't seen Tyler play--what I've read about him doesn't remind me so much of McIlrath as Tomas Kloucek but for other purposes someone like Brooks Orpik before he got older and his skating bogged down. Kloucek didn't last long either because of injury but before he skated very well--one of his main issues actually was chasing hits but in his brief time with the Rangers he became a fan favorite.

Anyway if the Rangers traded the #22 for a young ELC player I'd want someone we could plug right in......and honestly I know a lot of people like Julien Gauthier but I'd want a player more ready than he is--someone who no question could play and contribute now.

I actually think the player in this class that has an issue with chasing hits is Guhle. A lot of times he left assignments that caused controversy on an opposite zone chance.

Yeah I agree, I think that the pick would need to be moved in a package with someone like Georgiev or whoever and see if they could get better. Being linked to a trade partner like Calgary for Lindholm is a good starting point.

 

[Leetch3]

so we keep hearing about how deep this draft is....but 9 1st round picks were traded (10 trades since Vancouver's pick was traded twice), 14 2nd round picks (3 picks traded twice) and 14 3rd round picks (with like 4 moved twice)....so 37 of the first 90 picks (41%) will not be made by the team that originally own the pick.

does that indicate that the league actually thinks that this a bad draft? and if teams actually thought it was a super deep draft they would be less willing to trade away those picks?

 

[JCProdigy]

so we keep hearing about how deep this draft is....but 9 1st round picks were traded (10 trades since Vancouver's pick was traded twice), 14 2nd round picks (3 picks traded twice) and 14 3rd round picks (with like 4 moved twice)....so 37 of the first 90 picks (41%) will not be made by the team that originally own the pick.

does that indicate that the league actually thinks that this a bad draft? and if teams actually thought it was a super deep draft they would be less willing to trade away those picks?

What I think it indicates is that a lot of GMs know that they don't have that five year job security. As a result they value assets that can help their team in the short term, and possibly help in them keeping their job, over an asset that might not be seeing dividends until 3+ years from now when they might not even be the GM.

Of course, on the other side you have the GMs like Gorton who have some job security because the owner understands the team is rebuilding and they gladly stockpile picks.

AKA: for every GM willing to trade a pick from this deep draft, there is a GM willing to trade for that pick.

 

[gravey9]

What I think it indicates is that a lot of GMs know that they don't have that five year job security. As a result they value assets that can help their team in the short term, and possibly help in them keeping their job, over an asset that might not be seeing dividends until 3+ years from now when they might not even be the GM.

Of course, on the other side you have the GMs like Gorton who have some job security because the owner understands the team is rebuilding and they gladly stockpile picks.

AKA: for every GM willing to trade a pick from this deep draft, there is a GM willing to trade for that pick.

I think the idea of a deep draft is pretty loose. Sometimes deep could mean there's 8-10 players at the very top of the draft that all seem like they could be elite. Sometimes it means there are 30-45 prospects that seem like an overall higher calibre pool compared to other years. It's a very subjective term I think. It seems to me like this first round has a few tiers. The number of high-end possibly elite players is deeper than other years. It goes to about 9-10 players. Then there's the next tier which for me goes to about 18 or 19. Then, everything after feels like there's not a great consensus. This may be in part because of the season being cut off abruptly. But it all seems so random to me.

 

[gravey9]

They could potentially view him as a center as part of their ranking.

But assuming they don’t, I don’t really get the sense that it would be an issue.

The Rangers haven’t really shied away from drafting players for whom they already have other other options - be it RD, LD, or even Center in 2017/2018.

If Greig is there guy, I don’t think it’ll be an issue.

Typically we as fans tend to judge a pick based on general pre-draft rankings. You end up hearing lots of reactions to picks like I cant believe so and so who was projected as a top 10 pick fell to us at 18! What a steal!

But I think that's just not the best way to view selections made after the top 15 or so picks.

It doesn't really matter if a player is ranked 22, 32, 44 or 50. If you're an NHL scouting dept, every player you pick from the second half of round 1 on is all about getting the guy you targetted. The guy you want that won't be available whenever you pick next.

For the Rangers, after 22, their next pick is 71! That's a pool of almost 50 players to choose from (barring additional moves) and they've just got one lottery ticket to use.

As a result, they're going to pick the guy they would have nightmares about passing on. And they are NOT going to have nightmares about passing on the guy who they didn't target in the first place, even if everyone else is convinced so-and-so just fell to them at 22. (unless, of course, that guy was their target all along).

And I would argue that this is the Rangers greatest strength. Specifically finding NHL talent in the second half of round 1. K. Miller, Lundkvist, Chytil, JT Miller, Sjkei, Kreider, Del Zotto, Korpikoski all in this area. And at least a few of these guys were considered over-drafts at the time. Lundkvist, Kreider and Chytil specifically.

Point is, if they go with Grieg or Kleven or some other guy who seems like a reach, this is why. They're merely using that one lottery ticket on the player they want the most that won't be there come pick 71.

 

[Leetch3]

Typically we as fans tend to judge a pick based on general pre-draft rankings. You end up hearing lots of reactions to picks like I cant believe so and so who was projected as a top 10 pick fell to us at 18! What a steal!

But I think that's just not the best way to view selections made after the top 15 or so picks.

It doesn't really matter if a player is ranked 22, 32, 44 or 50. If you're an NHL scouting dept, every player you pick from the second half of round 1 on is all about getting the guy you targetted. The guy you want that won't be available whenever you pick next.

For the Rangers, after 22, their next pick is 71! That's a pool of almost 50 players to choose from (barring additional moves) and they've just got one lottery ticket to use.

As a result, they're going to pick the guy they would have nightmares about passing on. And they are NOT going to have nightmares about passing on the guy who they didn't target in the first place, even if everyone else is convinced so-and-so just fell to them at 22. (unless, of course, that guy was their target all along).

And I would argue that this is the Rangers greatest strength. Specifically finding NHL talent in the second half of round 1. K. Miller, Lundkvist, Chytil, JT Miller, Sjkei, Kreider, Del Zotto, Korpikoski all in this area. And at least a few of these guys were considered over-drafts at the time. Lundkvist, Kreider and Chytil specifically.

Point is, if they go with Grieg or Kleven or some other guy who seems like a reach, this is why. They're merely using that one lottery ticket on the player they want the most that won't be there come pick 71.

we also need to remember that those pre-draft rankings are just a snippet to give you an idea on a player and 90% of the descriptions make every player sound like a future superstar. and we don't know who many times each team has gotten to see a guy. I know the scouching guy on youtube always mentions that he tries to watch guys 7 times, which becomes a lot of games for 1 person when talking about tons of prospects. but its a pretty small sample size. guys have slumps and hot streaks...but a NHL team with a full scouting staff might have seen someone a ton more times with multiple different scouts giving their POV...for example Dylan Holloway, as a teammate of K'Andre Miller, the rangers might have seen every one of his games this year...

and also which pre-rankings do you go by if a guy is all over? Ridly Greig for example:

EliteProspects.com - 83
Future Considerations - 54
Craig Button - 30
McKeen's - 24
NHL Central Scouting - 14 (NA Skaters)
Bob McKenzie - 24
RLR - 18
Black Book - 14

now some of those may be old rankings that weren't updated but thats a pretty big range from 14 to middle of the 3rd round...so if you guy by McKenzie taking him at 24 is spot on. if you go by Black Book or RLR its a steal. if you go by FC or EP is a huge reach