Draft 2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part V

[Ghost of jas]

If Mercer is hanging around in the late teens we have to try to move up and get him. Two big problems. First it will cost quite a bit even to move up 5 slots or so. Second, the damn Devils are most likely gonna pick 17/18ish and maybe around 20ish unless the Canucks get to the WCF. Good luck trying to deal with them and even more likely they grab Mercer for themselves.

The price to move up 4-6 slots is and pretty much has been a 2nd round pick.

 

[bl02]

The price to move up 4-6 slots is and pretty much has been a 2nd round pick.

I could be wrong but I feel moving up from 23 to 17 is gonna cost more than moving up from 28-22 especially in this draft. I think the higher up in the draft the more moving up will cost you. But yeah I guess even feel like we could grab a second rounder if we dropped 4-5 spots in the first round.

If someone like Mercer was available in the mid to late teens the Rangers should definitely try their best to jump up and grab him.

 

[Ghost of jas]

I could be wrong but I feel moving up from 23 to 17 is gonna cost more than moving up from 28-22 especially in this draft. I think the higher up in the draft the more moving up will cost you. But yeah I guess even feel like we could grab a second rounder if we dropped 4-5 spots in the first round.

If someone like Mercer was available in the mid to late teens the Rangers should definitely try their best to jump up and grab him.

History has shown it doesn't. @Amazing Kreiderman has posted the numerous trades that have taken place where teams have moved up in the first round, and the price is almost always a 2nd round pick. He'll probably do it again leading up to the draft. People always think that the draft year that we're currently in is going to be different, and picks "this year" have more value. History shows otherwise. In fact, Dumbass Dubas accepted a 3rd as a price to move down two years ago.

And this is why I can safely state that the draftsim site is not accurate when it comes to trade value.

 

[bl02]

Think there's a chance Jack Quinn is still available at our 2nd pick of Rd 1?

would be seriously shocked. I think Jarvis has a better chance than Quinn of dropping. The scouts seem to be in love with Quinn

 

[bl02]

History has shown it doesn't.

Too bad we don’t have a 2nd rounder this year then. I would trade our two thirds to move up if Mercer was there. Not sure If draft capital wise two thirds has the same worth/value as a second?

 

[Ghost of jas]

Too bad we don’t have a 2nd rounder this year then. I would trade our two thirds to move up if Mercer was there. Not sure If draft capital wise two thirds has the same worth/value as a second?

There are other ways to move up...trade a prospect along with the pick, trade a better player along with the pick for a lesser player and the better pick. There's also the potential for Georgiev to get moved prior to the draft, and his value is likely two 2nd's. If they want to move up, they'll have the means.

 

[qwertyaas]

rangers should target those safe types in the bottom 1st round since they have multiple picks. who knows maybe they'll trade Fast's rights if they can't resign him. i can see that happening

Safe is not always best.

See: Lias Andersson. Go for BPA. Go for another Chytil type pick.

 

[Ghost of jas]

Safe is not always best.

See: Lias Andersson. Go for BPA. Go for another Chytil type pick.

Like someone else said, the Rangers are already getting the safest pick in the draft. Go for boom potential.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

History has shown it doesn't. @Amazing Kreiderman has posted the numerous trades that have taken place where teams have moved up in the first round, and the price is almost always a 2nd round pick. He'll probably do it again leading up to the draft. People always think that the draft year that we're currently in is going to be different, and picks "this year" have more value. History shows otherwise. In fact, Dumbass Dubas accepted a 3rd as a price to move down two years ago.

And this is why I can safely state that the draftsim site is not accurate when it comes to trade value.

Love it when I get to show off my work

 

[NYSPORTS]

I could be wrong but I feel moving up from 23 to 17 is gonna cost more than moving up from 28-22 especially in this draft. I think the higher up in the draft the more moving up will cost you. But yeah I guess even feel like we could grab a second rounder if we dropped 4-5 spots in the first round.

If someone like Mercer was available in the mid to late teens the Rangers should definitely try their best to jump up and grab him.

i have to think with all these prospects, an extra #1, a young vet like Buch and an extra Goalie the Rangers have a good chance to move up.

 

[usekakkorightquinn]

Like someone else said, the Rangers are already getting the safest pick in the draft. Go for boom potential.

Unwise. Again, many are forgetting the team is looking at probably 4 max contracts with forwards in a few years and an expensive goalie. They need to keep the bottom 2 lines and defenseman rolling with cheap, young players to manage the cap. They would be wise to take the safesty stay at home d man or role playing forward that adds what the team needs on a 3rd or 4th line with their second, first round pick. Before Lafrenierre and Kakko taking a player with a first was about getting a top 2 line forward or top 4 d man. Now, it should be about getting a guy that can be a good role player. You aren't going to be able to pay the role players on this team 3-4 million. That won't work with the cap with so many max contract guys. For example, try to find another Lemieux type so in 4 years if Lemieux wants 3 million, you can trade him for picks and play the new kid for cheap.

 

[Ola]

Safe is not always best.

See: Lias Andersson. Go for BPA. Go for another Chytil type pick.

For sure. Always when you look back at a draft after sufficient time (not just a handful of years, but 15-20 years), it’s quite obvious how there will be a clearly limited number of players that were really worth it.

In hindsight there is practically never any room to be choosy with a pick within a range.

 

[Ola]

Unwise. Again, many are forgetting the team is looking at probably 4 max contracts with forwards in a few years and an expensive goalie. They need to keep the bottom 2 lines and defenseman rolling with cheap, young players to manage the cap. They would be wise to take the safesty stay at home d man or role playing forward that adds what the team needs on a 3rd or 4th line with their second, first round pick. Before Lafrenierre and Kakko taking a player with a first was about getting a top 2 line forward or top 4 d man. Now, it should be about getting a guy that can be a good role player. You aren't going to be able to pay the role players on this team 3-4 million. That won't work with the cap with so many max contract guys. For example, try to find another Lemieux type so in 4 years if Lemieux wants 3 million, you can trade him for picks and play the new kid for cheap.

Fair points for sure, and it’s definitely something that already impacts Gorton’s decisions much more than we imagine.

With that said, I do think it’s important to acknowledge that the league does look a little different than it traditionally did in this regard. That depth forward or cheap D that you get many serviceable years from can just as well be small and live on their speed as they can be no nonsense physical players.

I think we took a step in the right direction in last years draft with Aaltonen and Henriksson. At the same time, I am the first to acknowledge that there are no guarantees. That those two could amount to nothing.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Safe is not always best.

See: Lias Andersson. Go for BPA. Go for another Chytil type pick.

Andersson and Chytil were both reaches. One worked out, one didn't. If we went BPA, we would have gone with Mittelstadt most likely. It's not as if he's lighting it up in the NHL either. We need to accept that 2017 was a weak draft with a huge drop off after 6

 

[Synergy27]

Safe is not always best.

See: Lias Andersson. Go for BPA. Go for another Chytil type pick.

You might even say that safe is death.

 

[qwertyaas]

Andersson and Chytil were both reaches. One worked out, one didn't. If we went BPA, we would have gone with Mittelstadt most likely. It's not as if he's lighting it up in the NHL either. We need to accept that 2017 was a weak draft with a huge drop off after 6

I recall the Lias pick being the safest choice at the time. Little risk but with moderate reward. Most wanted that pick to be BPA or take that risk given the position and need for a game breaking prospect. So Lias was the safe pick and Chytil was the gamble.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I recall the Lias pick being the safest choice at the time. Little risk but with moderate reward. Most wanted that pick to be BPA or take that risk given the position and need for a game breaking prospect. So Lias was the safe pick and Chytil was the gamble.

The NBC crew called him NHL ready. They also called him a safe pick. I honestly don't know if there is ever a safe pick in the draft. Especially once the top guys are gone. Fans always get excited about a player labeled as a steal when that player drops for a reason sometimes. A steal isn't always a positive. For that same reason, a reach isn't always a negative.

I also feel Ranger fans either forget or don't know how dominant Lias Andersson was pre-draft and why he was ranked so high by not just the Rangers, but other teams as well. And also how much uncertainty there was surrounding Mittelstadt in particular. Over 50% of his points in the USHL coming on the PP was a huge red flag. Vilardi had injury concerns, missing close to 20 games in his draft year. There were question marks surrounding almost everyone after Cody Glass was gone

 

[qwertyaas]

The NBC crew called him NHL ready. They also called him a safe pick. I honestly don't know if there is ever a safe pick in the draft. Especially once the top guys are gone. Fans always get excited about a player labeled as a steal when that player drops for a reason sometimes. A steal isn't always a positive. For that same reason, a reach isn't always a negative.

I also feel Ranger fans either forget or don't know how dominant Lias Andersson was pre-draft and why he was ranked so high by not just the Rangers, but other teams as well. And also how much uncertainty there was surrounding Mittelstadt in particular. Over 50% of his points in the USHL coming on the PP was a huge red flag. Vilardi had injury concerns, missing close to 20 games in his draft year. There were question marks surrounding almost everyone after Cody Glass was gone

Fair enough - it wasn't exactly a great draft to have a pick outside of the top 5. IIRC, they were really hoping to pick up Pettersson.

 

[Edge]

A lot depends on where the Carolina pick ends up but if we're dropping down from the early 20's we're probably talking a late 1st and a 2nd. That generally seems to be the price of moving down. You go down 3 to 5 spots and you pick up a pick in the next round. By the early 20's I think Mercer, Jarvis, Reichel, Schneider and Guhle are all gone. There's some chance Zary or even Holloway will be around but I'm thinking maybe Peterka or Khushnutdinov if they're not. I wouldn't hate Bourque, O'Rourke, Wallinder or Greig either. Foerster gets critiqued for his skating. Skating issues are usually something Rangers scouts are cognizant of. I wouldn't pick him and I wouldn't pick Lapierre for his injury issues. Perreault is very skilled but is considered somewhat lazy and doesn't care about defense. I think he's another possibility but he's going to have to get better at those things he doesn't like to do. A little outside the box I would think Torgersson would be a really really good pickup and I like Heineman too. These are guys who might not be top 6 forwards but if not pretty likely to make very solid 3rd line wingers---guys who can win puck battles and do the more unappreciated stuff while still banging in some points. Cuylle and Evangelista might fall into that kind of job description before all is said and done too.

The whole Lundell/Mercer/Jarvis scenario is already a long-shot. But for it to even be a possibility, I think the Rangers have to be within 4-5 slots. That means one of those guys would have to be there in the 15-17 range, and the Canes pick would have to be in the 20-22 range. Obviously the closer the better.

The Rangers would need a second (Georgiev, Strome), or some combination of their third round picks, a prospect or a younger roster player (Howden, Hajek, Lemieux). And that’s assuming they found a willing trade partner.

If Mercer is hanging around in the late teens we have to try to move up and get him. Two big problems. First it will cost quite a bit even to move up 5 slots or so. Second, the damn Devils are most likely gonna pick 17/18ish and maybe around 20ish unless the Canucks get to the WCF. Good luck trying to deal with them and even more likely they grab Mercer for themselves.

If the Rangers even had a chance to go down this path, they’d have to leapfrog New Jersey. Having them pick at 18 and 19 creates a no-fly zone for the Rangers that would have to be worked around. Assuming the Devils weren’t looking to move up.

 

[Edge]

The NBC crew called him NHL ready. They also called him a safe pick. I honestly don't know if there is ever a safe pick in the draft. Especially once the top guys are gone. Fans always get excited about a player labeled as a steal when that player drops for a reason sometimes. A steal isn't always a positive. For that same reason, a reach isn't always a negative.

I also feel Ranger fans either forget or don't know how dominant Lias Andersson was pre-draft and why he was ranked so high by not just the Rangers, but other teams as well. And also how much uncertainty there was surrounding Mittelstadt in particular. Over 50% of his points in the USHL coming on the PP was a huge red flag. Vilardi had injury concerns, missing close to 20 games in his draft year. There were question marks surrounding almost everyone after Cody Glass was gone

Safe has become a buzz word that gets thrown out there when people don’t have time to give a more detailed report on a player and are instead forced to sum them up in 10 words or less.

The problem is that the words they choose can then become weaponized depending on the hopes and fears of the audience member.

There really is no such thing as safe. There are guys seen as having better odds. There are guys seen as having multiple paths. There are guys seen as having higher floors. But the word safe should not apply to every two way forward who doesn’t do the dipsy doodle shit that people somehow assume means a prospect is capable of amazing things at the NHL level.

 

[nyr2k2]

Some new NCAA free agents out there. I would love to take a flyer on Ryan Shea, the D out of Northeastern who was a Blackhawks choice. Decent size, good skater, good offensive instincts. I also like his teammate Matt Filipe, the forward who has good size and strength with some skill. He looks like he'd be a good fit with the college UDFA's who all look like at minimum they could become good bottom six guys.

 

[Edge]

Fair enough - it wasn't exactly a great draft to have a pick outside of the top 5. IIRC, they were really hoping to pick up Pettersson.

The hope was to grab Pettersson at 7.

I think they felt pretty confident who was going in the top 4 and that Glass was going to Vegas. The uncertainty was whether the Nucks would take Pettersson or Mittelstadt. They chose the former and that forced the Rangers into their alternate playbook.

And BTW that’s the risk of making a trade before you know your guy is on the table. Sometimes it costs less, but you have no guarantees.

Andersson was a kid they’d hope could become their Horvat or O’Reilly. And contrary to popular belief or opinion, Andersson really wasn’t too far out of range at the 7 spot.

As we’re seeing again this year, once you get past the first several picks, just about any order is possible. People get fixated on lists and the truth is that they don’t mean much. The only lists that matter are the ones you never see - the lists of actual NHL teams.

Was Andersson a slight reach at 7? Yes, he was. But he wasn’t a reach that was completely out of left field. He wasn’t Seider in 2019 or Rupp in 1998.

I don’t think people remember he was ranked third on CSB’s final rankings of European players - ahead of quite a few other names that people seem to remember as being heralded prospects.

 

[eco's bones]

The whole Lundell/Mercer/Jarvis scenario is already a long-shot. But for it to even be a possibility, I think the Rangers have to be within 4-5 slots. That means one of those guys would have to be there in the 15-17 range, and the Canes pick would have to be in the 20-22 range. Obviously the closer the better.

The Rangers would need a second (Georgiev, Strome), or some combination of their third round picks, a prospect or a younger roster player (Howden, Hajek, Lemieux). And that’s assuming they found a willing trade partner.



If the Rangers even had a chance to go down this path, they’d have to leapfrog New Jersey. Having them pick at 18 and 19 creates a no-fly zone for the Rangers that would have to be worked around. Assuming the Devils weren’t looking to move up.

I would put Lundell's and Jarvis's range anywhere between 9 and 17 and Mercer somewhere between 12 and 17. I think Lundell's a fairly safe to presume 2nd line center with a potential to be a tweener 2nd-1st line C or a 1st line C. Two years in Liiga already and done well for himself. With Jarvis you're wondering if you have the next Barzal and with Mercer--he sounds like a young Justin Williams to me. You might not get huge production but you're likely to get consistent production and good play for a long time.

I think the Rangers also have to be careful about their goaltending going into next year. If I'm moving Georgiev I'm looking for another goalie other than Lundqvist as backup. Lemieux is kind of a dumb player but that physical element isn't something I'd want to give up. Howden is probably replaceable but jumping directly into the NHL from the CHL isn't an easy thing to do and as a player I expect he's going to get better and actually I think he played fairly well against Carolina. The problem with Hajek is the offensive part of his two way game never made the jump to the pros--he also seems at times physically shy.

Buch or DeAngelo are guys that might move a 23/24 pick into that 13-16 range. If you're going to do that though you really have to believe in the guy you're getting. Because of cap issues we might have to move one or both of them in the next year or two anyway though so that could be an avenue to explore.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The hope was to grab Pettersson at 7.

I think they felt pretty confident who was going in the top 4 and that Glass was going to Vegas. The uncertainty was whether the Nucks would take Pettersson or Mittelstadt. They chose the former and that forced the Rangers into their alternate playbook.

And BTW that’s the risk of making a trade before you know your guy is on the table. Sometimes it costs less, but you have no guarantees.

Andersson was a kid they’d hope could become their Horvat or O’Reilly. And contrary to popular belief or opinion, Andersson really wasn’t too far out of range at the 7 spot.

As we’re seeing again this year, once you get past the first several picks, just about any order is possible. People get fixated on lists and the truth is that they don’t mean much. The only lists that matter are the ones you never see - the lists of actual NHL teams.

Was Andersson a slight reach at 7? Yes, he was. But he wasn’t a reach that was completely out of left field. He wasn’t Seider in 2019 or Rupp in 1998.

I don’t think people remember he was ranked third on CSB’s final rankings of European players - ahead of quite a few other names that people seem to remember as being heralded prospects.

He broke records in junior hockey, captained his junior national teams, and was good enough to play on the 3rd line with HV71, winning the SHL championship, in his draft year.

You alluded to it before but fans often mistake the ability to dangle through opponents with elite skill. It's a lot easier to do that against 16 and 17 year olds. Anze Kopitar wasn't dangling through opponents in the SHL and Allsvenskan. Neither was Granlund. This fanbase would have cried for months about Kopitar had we drafted him.

If Lias stayed in the SHL for 3 full years, like Minnesota did with Granlund in Liiga, this fanbase would be licking their chops having Lafreniere, Lias and Kakko in the line up this year but because he was offered his ELC at age 18, and it didn't work out in the AHL for reasons not related to his play, this fanbase is ready to crucify him. It has reached the point where fans on social media hope he has a bad season in Sweden. I hate hockey fans sometimes. They don't understand that him doing well benefits the Rangers but.... Yeah, not worth going into any further.

 

[qwertyaas]

The hope was to grab Pettersson at 7.

I think they felt pretty confident who was going in the top 4 and that Glass was going to Vegas. The uncertainty was whether the Nucks would take Pettersson or Mittelstadt. They chose the former and that forced the Rangers into their alternate playbook.

And BTW that’s the risk of making a trade before you know your guy is on the table. Sometimes it costs less, but you have no guarantees.

Andersson was a kid they’d hope could become their Horvat or O’Reilly. And contrary to popular belief or opinion, Andersson really wasn’t too far out of range at the 7 spot.

As we’re seeing again this year, once you get past the first several picks, just about any order is possible. People get fixated on lists and the truth is that they don’t mean much. The only lists that matter are the ones you never see - the lists of actual NHL teams.

Was Andersson a slight reach at 7? Yes, he was. But he wasn’t a reach that was completely out of left field. He wasn’t Seider in 2019 or Rupp in 1998.

I don’t think people remember he was ranked third on CSB’s final rankings of European players - ahead of quite a few other names that people seem to remember as being heralded prospects.

Makes sense. I guess it's also the Rangers tendency to go off board and it not working for them that adds a bit of fuel to the fire. He was for sure no McIlrath. And it doesn't help how it turned out with Lias. Hoping he still pans out and becomes a decent player for us.

It just goes to show, outside of consensus top 3-5, the rest of the first round is generally a crap shoot other than a 2003/2015 caliber draft.