2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part II

[MysticLeviathan]

are we even confirmed to be picking at 13?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

are we even confirmed to be picking at 13?

No

 

[Edge]

are we even confirmed to be picking at 13?

Negative. NHL still hasn’t announced much of anything.

 

[mas0764]

When was the last time Chicago and Pittsburgh were good enough to go far in the playoffs? Early 2010's and mid 2010's? Pittsburgh had the luck of drafting and growing two superstar centers and Chicago, honestly, had solid depth all-around. It all depends on systems and cap.

Strome was on the brink of not having an NHL career until he was moved to NYR. Of course playing with Panarin will build more offense, but he proved that the year prior with 19 goals (18 with the Rangers). He's a fine option at No. 2, has shown chemistry with wingers and is entering his prime.

That's another thing, why do the Rangers need to move them? It's not like they're abysmal players and you're not moving components of the roster to move up in the draft. This team is on the brink of continuous contention and they are a part of the big picture. You really only move them for a significant upgrade or a sell off for picks and draft capital.

And the draft is a crapshoot. Barzal was taken in 16th overall and is a No. 1 center. Chytil is still incredibly young and has the potential to still be a No. 2 center. There's also free agency if NYR needs a No. 2. There are better options than just trading Buch/Strome.

None of this is an argument against what I’m saying to do. Yeah, Strome is “fine.”

But I’m arguing the Rangers should be aggressive with their disposable assets since they are over flowing with them, especially defensive prospects.

Get aggressive and go get - if possible, mind you - a stud in the draft or a young current NHLer.

Worrying that we will have salary problems or that we shouldn’t make such a move because it might squeeze out Ryan friggin’ Strome is just clutching at pearls.

Target a guy you want, and he’ll most likely turn out... that’s why you’d be trading for him, you already know how he fits in your salary structure and you have scouted him to be confident that he’ll pan out on ice. The Rangers have been pretty good at this recently (when they aren’t just taking leftovers like Lias Andersson in 2017; we should have very much confidence in their drafting and player acquisition moves, like with Adam Fox).

If/when the player works out and Strome has to go, no one will be crying.

 

[mas0764]

While I’m not necessarily advocating for moving up to get Lundell, it would be interesting if the Rangers did and he was on the opening night roster. Essentially it would be an alternate path to their 2019 draft idea for grabbing a center and having him step in a year later (2020).

I’m advocating this. Or for Rossi or Holtz or whoever slips to where we can get up.

13, 23 and a D prospect.

 

[Joey Bones]

If it all comes together, I see Dustin Brown.

I would welcome that with open arms but I'm not at all confident that he will get there. While there is value to his size/speed/strength package, that cannot be the basis for why you pick him at 13 (if the Rangers pick at 13.) I can't imagine that there won't be more skilled players available.

Dustin Brown isn't agitating, though, and was never that fast. He's only 18, so he'll only get faster. I don't see how that kind of combo isn't enticing.

 

[Joey Bones]

No move is ever a sure thing, but keep in mind that the move you're balking at there done in 2017 gets you Elias Pettersson.

Which, if memory serves, is something the Rangers definitely explored.

If I remember correctly, the Rangers did offer some kind of package similar to that, but Vancouver knew that wanted Elias more....

 

[Joey Bones]

And when the player turns around and busts?

No, unless it's a legitimate top 5 talent, I would not waste multiple 1sts to trade up 2 spots.

I think what @Trxjw is saying is if a player like Holtz or Rossi falls to No. 11, you move the two for one of them. I would, too, TBH. But it's a matter of how the draft plays out and different team scenarios.

 

[Joey Bones]

If they pass on him for Holloway im going to go full JTKreider on this board.

Both players would be perfect for the Rangers. Jarvis has the potential to be Marner, but also the potential for Spooner (which I think is less likely).

 

[Joey Bones]

I will say the Rangers are supposedly very high on him. Supposedly they love the upside and also think he’s a kid who has a shot to step into the lineup as early as next season.

Do they love that at the cost of two firsts? Unknown.

But I think Lundell is on a short list of players who would get consideration.

This is very good for there center depth, but I agree with @Oscar Lindberg that moving up a to select him with a package of both firsts is a tough pill to swallow. On the other hand, he does have a big potential for a minute munching defensive center and still rack up points.

 

[Trxjw]

And when the player turns around and busts?

No, unless it's a legitimate top 5 talent, I would not waste multiple 1sts to trade up 2 spots.

I guess if you assume the player is going to bust, then sure. Not sure what assures you that 13 and 23 aren't busts themselves, however.

 

[Joey Bones]

I haven’t begun to look into this draft yet. Been a crazy year so far for obvious reasons. From what I’m reading there are a couple of good defensemen but not much after that people here love. Who are the d-men that could throw a wrench in all of these projections? We know teams will look at a d-man in lieu of one of the better forwards and possibly push someone down.

I think it's safe to say that Drysdale and Sanderson are going in the top 10. Then there are guys like Schneider, Guhle, O'Rourke, Wallinder and Mukhamadullin who go from 15-30 (the only one I really like in that group is Schneider and some components of Wallinder). I think those are the players that could throw a wrench in a draft board shakeup. But my bet on some surprise pickups are Tyler Kleven and Eamon Powell. Been hearing that teams like them a lot and might pick them in the later part of the first round. Personally out of the two, I like Powell. Very very similar style to Fox and is super smart with and without the puck.

 

[Joey Bones]

While I’m not necessarily advocating for moving up to get Lundell, it would be interesting if the Rangers did and he was on the opening night roster. Essentially it would be an alternate path to their 2019 draft idea for grabbing a center and having him step in a year later (2020).

ATM, Lundell has the capability to be a opening night roster center. His positioning, IMO, is his best asset and will easily slot in the bottom-6 to start. He focuses on the defensive side of the puck first and finds offensive success through that. IMO, he could develop a lethal style of play in that regard.

Again, not sure if I'd be okay with sending two firsts to move up and grab him. There is a very real chance he falls to No. 13.

 

[Joey Bones]

are we even confirmed to be picking at 13?

No, speculation at the moment. Depends on if the season continues or not.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Dustin Brown isn't agitating, though, and was never that fast. He's only 18, so he'll only get faster. I don't see how that kind of combo isn't enticing.

He didn’t have those wheels but prime Dustin Brown was plenty agitating. Not so much in a yappy way, but through his physicality.

the combo is enticing, but how good is the offense? I’m not sure that the rest of the package is enough for me to overlook that question.

I’d LOVE him at 23 but that isn’t happening.

 

[Trxjw]

I think what @Trxjw is saying is if a player like Holtz or Rossi falls to No. 11, you move the two for one of them. I would, too, TBH. But it's a matter of how the draft plays out and different team scenarios.

Exactly. If you're trading up to 11 to get a guy you ranked 6th or 7th, then it makes plenty of sense. If you're trading up from 13 to 11 to get your 11th ranked player, then sure, it's a poor decision.

It all comes down to what the Rangers' list looks like. If they have Lundell in their top-5 and suddenly he's on the board at 11, then they are indeed getting what they feel is a top-5 pick in exchange for their two firsts.

 

[Edge]

ATM, Lundell has the capability to be a opening night roster center. His positioning, IMO, is his best asset and will easily slot in the bottom-6 to start. He focuses on the defensive side of the puck first and finds offensive success through that. IMO, he could develop a lethal style of play in that regard.

Again, not sure if I'd be okay with sending two firsts to move up and grab him. There is a very real chance he falls to No. 13.

It will be interesting to see if one or two defensemen push forwards down, or if someone falls in love with a player that was pegged to go later. We see this every year.

There are a number of forwards that have come up from the Rangers camp this year, though the order remains a mystery. Lundell stands out as one forward that’s come up quite a bit, so I am going to venture they have him in their top 10. After trying to grab guys like Keller, Pettersson, and Zegras in recent years, I have to wonder if the Rangers have Lundell in that same ballpark. If so, I wonder how aggressive they might be to come away with “their guy.”

This isn’t necessarily a team that’s looking for more prospect depth, or looking to add guys who are several years away. Is there a hunger to get someone (Lundell, another player) who can step in sooner and whose upside they really like? That’s going to be interesting to watch in the coming weeks.

 

[Edge]

This is very good for there center depth, but I agree with @Oscar Lindberg that moving up a to select him with a package of both firsts is a tough pill to swallow. On the other hand, he does have a big potential for a minute munching defensive center and still rack up points.

For the Rangers it might all come down to where they have him ranked. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that they have Lundell in their top 5 or 6 and view him as a guy who has a shot to be center a first line someday.

If Lundell is viewed in that light, as opposed to a nice second line center, that potentially changes the conversation.

But as the Rangers showed last year, there’s at least somewhat of an appetite to be aggressive with the guys they want and to use picks as currency rather than savings bonds.

If the Rangers view Lundell as this year’s Zegras, they might value that more than taking a flyer on a guy in the 20s.

But I do think the list for them is pretty short.

 

[Joey Bones]

None of this is an argument against what I’m saying to do. Yeah, Strome is “fine.”

But I’m arguing the Rangers should be aggressive with their disposable assets since they are over flowing with them, especially defensive prospects.

Get aggressive and go get - if possible, mind you - a stud in the draft or a young current NHLer.

Worrying that we will have salary problems or that we shouldn’t make such a move because it might squeeze out Ryan friggin’ Strome is just clutching at pearls.

Target a guy you want, and he’ll most likely turn out... that’s why you’d be trading for him, you already know how he fits in your salary structure and you have scouted him to be confident that he’ll pan out on ice. The Rangers have been pretty good at this recently (when they aren’t just taking leftovers like Lias Andersson in 2017; we should have very much confidence in their drafting and player acquisition moves, like with Adam Fox).

If/when the player works out and Strome has to go, no one will be crying.

Bruh, you are missing my point. The initial argument was that you'd move Buch, two firsts and a defensive prospect like Miller or Lundkvist for Eichel or Barkov. Not only does it not work cap-wise, but it puts a dent in the wing depth (with Buch) and depletes the defensive prospect pool DRASTICALLY!! After those two, the Rangers have Jones and Robertson who "could" become top-4 defenders. It's not a given. With K'Andre and Nils, at least they've shown better improvements towards being No. 1's let alone top-4. Does that make them disposable? Why just give up on their potential for a player (with enormous cap hit) to play No. 2 center? None of what you're saying now is helping that absurd trade proposal.

Secondly, Strome and Buch are not disposable assets, either. Who, right now, can replace them? Nobody. Kravtsov could on wing, but he's not even close yet. There is no point to move them now, when they can't get someone to replace them. They won't just sell them off. They're important to the team, that's why they kept Fast around, too. No, I won't boohoo if they ultimately let them go, but they need to fill the holes when they're gone (hopefully for the better). Trading defensive/prospect depth just to create another hole is dumb. Again, this isn't Sather.

Thirdly, management has been aggressive. They reportedly sent multiple proposals to move up and get Elias Pettersson and the year before that for Clayton Keller. They're doing their homework and unfortunately haven't landed one. Actually they did land one in K'Andre, whom you want to trade. They got lucky with Kravtsov since he was right in their lap. It's just how the draft plays out.

To end this debate, have faith. The time will come when NYR will start competing again and will be a top team in the NHL. They've had a plan since the note and will shape a roster out to contend very soon.

Anyways, back to the draft thread....

 

[Joey Bones]

He didn’t have those wheels but prime Dustin Brown was plenty agitating. Not so much in a yappy way, but through his physicality.

the combo is enticing, but how good is the offense? I’m not sure that the rest of the package is enough for me to overlook that question.

I’d LOVE him at 23 but that isn’t happening.

Okay, I see what you mean. But seeing Holloway, he's definitely a truck and will definitely get under the skin of opponents. I can see him getting into a Kreider type of speed with development. The offense is there, I just think that Wisconsin was such a meh, all around team that he wasn't able to show much off. Not to mention Turcotte and Caufield had the puck for majority of their PP's. He never really had the opportunity to show off. NCAA is more systematic than other junior leagues. That'll change next season, for sure.

 

[Joey Bones]

Exactly. If you're trading up to 11 to get a guy you ranked 6th or 7th, then it makes plenty of sense. If you're trading up from 13 to 11 to get your 11th ranked player, then sure, it's a poor decision.

It all comes down to what the Rangers' list looks like. If they have Lundell in their top-5 and suddenly he's on the board at 11, then they are indeed getting what they feel is a top-5 pick in exchange for their two firsts.

Which would definitely make some of us scratch their heads. I for one think that Lundell will slide and be in that range. I'm not sure if I would trade up two spots for him, though. I absolutely would for Rossi, Holtz or any of Lafreniere, Byfield, Stutzle, Drysdale.

 

[Joey Bones]

For the Rangers it might all come down to where they have him ranked. I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that they have Lundell in their top 5 or 6 and view him as a guy who has a shot to be center a first line someday.

If Lundell is viewed in that light, as opposed to a nice second line center, that potentially changes the conversation.

But as the Rangers showed last year, there’s at least somewhat of an appetite to be aggressive with the guys they want and to use picks as currency rather than savings bonds.

If the Rangers view Lundell as this year’s Zegras, they might value that more than taking a flyer on a guy in the 20s.

But I do think the list for them is pretty short.

Who do you think, from your insight, is on their short list?

They definitely have been aggressive in the previous classes. Zegras is one I forgot about, TBH, but I remember when those reports were coming out. No doubt that they'll focus in on "their guy".

 

[Edge]

Who do you think, from your insight, is on their short list?

They definitely have been aggressive in the previous classes. Zegras is one I forgot about, TBH, but I remember when those reports were coming out. No doubt that they'll focus in on "their guy".

Outside the obvious and untouchable (Lafreniere, Byfield), I think Holtz and Lundell are definitely on there. Not sure about Stutzle, Perfetti or Rossi. I’d have to think all are in the top 10 though. Have doubts Raymond is on the short list of trade up options.

So in that regard, I wouldn’t be shocked if the Rangers had one or both Holtz and Lundell in their top 5 or 6. I think those are the guys the Rangers would move two firsts for if they were on the board and within striking distance. Once you get beyond 5 or 6 on their list, there are guys the Rangers really like, but might not be inclined to pay a premium to draft.

I’d be surprised if Sanderson wasn’t in their top 10, though he’s another one the Rangers might not be inclined to trade two firsts for.

 

[Joey Bones]

In a bit of bad news, the Portland Winterhawks field for bankruptcy. Sad to see such an iconic team go.

 

[TheWhiskeyThief]

ATM, Lundell has the capability to be a opening night roster center. His positioning, IMO, is his best asset and will easily slot in the bottom-6 to start. He focuses on the defensive side of the puck first and finds offensive success through that. IMO, he could develop a lethal style of play in that regard.

Again, not sure if I'd be okay with sending two firsts to move up and grab him. There is a very real chance he falls to No. 13.

The team/system is clogged with bottom 6 centers(Lias, Barron, Howden, Fogarty & Richards)if relatively barren elsewhere up front. Not exactly swinging for the fences on Lundell. Defensively aware, just hasn’t flashed any elite skill when I’ve seen him and has never put up the kind of numbers to suggest he’s got that potential. He’s not a bum, just doesn’t have the ceiling compared to what’s available in the mid-teens. Then you start getting into the league quality and that opens up a whole can of worms. Finland produces a lot of hockey talent, it’s just that none of them play in Finland.