2020 Draft & Undrafted Free Agent Thread: Part II

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Red Wings, Habs win big in TSN Hockey's simulated lottery

Crazy Craig has us taking Lundell but I'm not sure he falls that far.

Wahlstrom fell to 12 in a significantly weaker draft, after being ranked as high as 4
Mittelstadt fell to 8, after being ranked 4th as well
Barzal fell to 16, after being ranked top 5 by multiple experts

If I had to pick 1 player out of the top 7 (Lafreniere, Stützle, Byfield, Rossi, Holtz, Raymond, Lundell) to fall outside the top 10, it's Lundell. Not because he's not good, but because he missed a portion of the season because of injury, limiting the time scouts saw him (especially true for EU based prospects).
 
Lundell at 13 is a great pick. I have a feeling he'll be gone before that though. If he's there at 9, I think the Blackhawks take him.

Is it me or have we sign an unusual high amount of college FA so far?
They've definitely signed more this year yeah. Maybe they feel the European and CHL UFA class isn't as strong this year
 
You wouldn't be? Zary? Quinn? Or both? Who would you prefer according to those rankings?

Would prefer Holloway, a falling Lundell, maybe Sanderson or Schneider, maybe Amirov at No. 13. Honestly, you could see some similarities to Zary's skating to that of Lias's (who I think is a better skater than Zary). He's got this really bad lurch when he accelerates and it ultimately stops him from going that extra gear. Other than, that he's good everywhere else, but he needs work on his skating.

I'm a full on believer that Quinn, and most of the 67's offense this year, is a product of Rossi. Rossi and Quinn were on and off lines together throughout the season and were on the same PP unit for most of the year. Rossi averaged OVER 2 PPG THIS YEAR WITH 81 ASSISTS IN 56 GP!! It's obvious that anyone on his line would benefit from the outstanding playmaking he possesses. With that said, when watching Quinn play he seems like a guy who will complement a playmaker like Rossi, like Panarin, but he isn't much of a driver (just like Gropp). I do think, however, that Quinn will have a better chance at carving out an NHL career over Gropp as a bottom 6/depth guy. Scoring is a BIG question-mark in the pros. I have him as an early 2nd, ATM.

He doesn't score 52 goals this year without Rossi....
 
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Players like that scare me as well but I find it hard to believe that so many have Quinn near top 10 if he wasn't a decent scorer. In fairness was Gropp ever considered to be close to a top 10 prospect in the 2015 draft? I don't even think anyone had him as a first rounder.

I get that, but it's obvious when seeing Rossi's tape that he is far superior offensively in the CHL and would help anyone statistically.
 
Would prefer Holloway, a falling Lundell, maybe Sanderson or Schneider, maybe Amirov at No. 13. Honestly, you could see some similarities to Zary's skating to that of Lias's (who I think is a better skater than Zary). He's got this really bad lurch when he accelerates and it ultimately stops him from going that extra gear. Other than, that he's good everywhere else, but he needs work on his skating.

I'm a full on believer that Quinn, and most of the 67's offense this year, is a product of Rossi. Rossi and Quinn were on and off lines together throughout the season and were on the same PP unit for most of the year. Rossi averaged OVER 2 PPG THIS YEAR WITH 81 ASSISTS IN 56 GP!! It's obvious that anyone on his line would benefit from the outstanding playmaking he possesses. With that said, when watching Quinn play he seems like a guy who will complement a playmaker like Rossi, like Panarin, but he isn't much of a driver (just like Gropp). I do think, however, that Quinn will have a better chance at carving out an NHL career over Gropp as a bottom 6/depth guy. Scoring is a BIG question-mark in the pros. I have him as an early 2nd, ATM.

He doesn't score 52 goals this year without Rossi....

fair enough. If Zary’s skating is any kind of issue I’m good with staying away. Unless you have Superman iq (Fox) you have to be able to skate in this league. I hear what you’re saying about Quinn but it seems like he won’t drop to 23 anyway. Many seem enamored by him.
This team is pretty balanced with decent size up front now I want more speed and good skaters
 
Wahlstrom fell to 12 in a significantly weaker draft, after being ranked as high as 4
Mittelstadt fell to 8, after being ranked 4th as well
Barzal fell to 16, after being ranked top 5 by multiple experts

If I had to pick 1 player out of the top 7 (Lafreniere, Stützle, Byfield, Rossi, Holtz, Raymond, Lundell) to fall outside the top 10, it's Lundell. Not because he's not good, but because he missed a portion of the season because of injury, limiting the time scouts saw him (especially true for EU based prospects).

I would make an argument for the meh season Raymond had too. I know some of it was because of Frolunda's usage of him, but still. I could see him falling, as well.
 
I think Holloway winds up a winger

I think between the three of them (Zary, Holloway, Lundell), Lundell is probably the one to come out as a center in the pros. Zary's skating is not strong and Holloway needs to put the tools together. Lundell has been playing center in the pros already and his pace of play is already there for an NHL game. Would just need to gain NHL experience to develop.
 
fair enough. If Zary’s skating is any kind of issue I’m good with staying away. Unless you have Superman iq (Fox) you have to be able to skate in this league. I hear what you’re saying about Quinn but it seems like he won’t drop to 23 anyway. Many seem enamored by him.
This team is pretty balanced with decent size up front now I want more speed and good skaters

I mean I can see the appeal to Quinn. Most of his goals were in even strength and he is really good one-on-one, but there's other elements he needs work on like losing his assignments defensively and looking lost when he doesn't have the puck. He does have a good possession game, too, but again he seems to be more of a complimentary scorer than a driver in the pros ala the Gropp comparison.
 
I actually really like Quinn.

The thing that makes him really intriguing to me is that he used to split his time between golf and hockey and didn't start focusing on hockey until like 2-3 years ago. So he was way behind his peers developmentally and as he's caught up to them, he's shot up from a secondary Canadian junior league to the OHL and then from a mediocre OHL player to a star. He got better over the course of the season too, and ended the year with 45 points in his last 25 games. If that process isn't done, watch out. Drake Batherson, who also used to split time between golf and hockey, followed a similar trajectory and ended up being one of the biggest steals of the 2017 draft and Quinn is far better than Batherson was in his draft year.

Quinn strikes me as really talented. Between his stride, slick hands, and a really good shot, I actually get Zibanejad vibes from watching him. I think this condensed shift-by-shift gives you a pretty good sense of how skilled he is, despite one really brutal turnover.





Plays like these also show a lot of skill and you'll notice he drives play by himself and isn't just riding his linemates coattails:

Brandon Holmes on Twitter

Evan on Twitter

Tate Harris on Twitter

Yannick St-Pierre on Twitter

Brandon Holmes on Twitter

Sam on Twitter

If you watch the shift-by-shift, you'll notice that he doesn't just have a lot of offensive skill. He also competes for pucks really hard, is involved defensively, and is an effective PK'er. His game strikes me as pretty well-rounded.

If you watch the shift-by-shift, you'll also notice that he's not out there with Rossi that much, except for on the power play. I think the narrative of him benefiting from playing with Rossi is overblown. My understanding is that Rossi normally played with Gareffa (1.73 ppg / 7th in the OHL in scoring) and Keating (1.53 ppg / 9th in the OHL in scoring) while Quinn normally played with Hoelscher (1.23 ppg / 22nd in the OHL in scoring) and Beck (0.34 ppg / 237th in the OHL in scoring). To be fair, Quinn was on the power play with Rossi, but I actually there's actually a case that Rossi benefited from playing with strong linemates more than Quinn did.

I think there's a solid argument that there's more risk with Quinn than with the guys in the top 8 because Quinn has come out of nowhere while other players have been established as really good hockey players for a while. But I think Quinn might have a higher ceiling than anyone else outside the top 8 and as someone who values upside a lot, that's really intriguing to me.

I also really like players who improve at a fast rate because I think it shows the ability to get better and for guys that generally aren't good enough to play in the NHL when they're drafted, their ability to improve is such a big part of how good they end up becoming.

The narrative that Quinn is a guy who, before this year, was a pretty mediocre hockey player and that all of his appeal is based on one breakout season as an older player surrounded by a ton of talent is definitely true, but I think there's also a lot evidence supporting the narrative that 1) he's a late bloomer because he didn't start focusing on hockey until later than his peers and 2) because of the way the 67's set up their lines, his breakout wasn't a function of being surrounded by talent but was driven by his own play. I also think that, if you watch him play, it's clear that he's a guy with a ton of talent.

I don't have any illusions of being a real scout or anything, I just do this stuff for fun, so I could definitely be wrong. But I do have a different viewpoint on him from what I've seen here so far and thought it was worth expressing for conversation's sake.
 
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I actually really like Quinn.

The thing that makes him really intriguing to me is that he used to split his time between golf and hockey and didn't start focusing on hockey until like 2-3 years ago. So he was way behind his peers developmentally and as he's caught up to them, he's shot up from a secondary Canadian junior league to the OHL and then from a mediocre OHL player to a star. He got better over the course of the season too, and ended the year with 45 points in his last 25 games. If that process isn't done, watch out. Drake Batherson, who also used to split time between golf and hockey, followed a similar trajectory and ended up being one of the biggest steals of the 2017 draft and Quinn is far better than Batherson was in his draft year.

Quinn strikes me as really talented. Between his stride, slick hands, and a really good shot, I actually get Zibanejad vibes from watching him. I think this condensed shift-by-shift gives you a pretty good sense of how skilled he is, despite one really brutal turnover.





Plays like these also show a lot of skill and you'll notice he drives play by himself and isn't just riding his linemates coattails:

Brandon Holmes on Twitter

Evan on Twitter

Tate Harris on Twitter

Yannick St-Pierre on Twitter

Brandon Holmes on Twitter

Sam on Twitter

If you watch the shift-by-shift, you'll notice that he doesn't just have a lot of offensive skill. He also competes for pucks really hard, is involved defensively, and is an effective PK'er. His game strikes me as pretty well-rounded.

If you watch the shift-by-shift, you'll also notice that he's not out there with Rossi that much, except for on the power play. I think the narrative of him benefiting from playing with Rossi is overblown. My understanding is that Rossi normally played with Gareffa (1.73 ppg / 7th in the OHL in scoring) and Keating (1.53 ppg / 9th in the OHL in scoring) while Quinn normally played with Hoelscher (1.23 ppg / 22nd in the OHL in scoring) and Beck (0.34 ppg / 237th in the OHL in scoring). To be fair, Quinn was on the power play with Rossi, but I actually there's actually a case that Rossi benefited from playing with strong linemates more than Quinn did.

I think there's a solid argument that there's more risk with Quinn than with the guys in the top 8 because Quinn has come out of nowhere while other players have been established as really good hockey players for a while. But I think Quinn might have a higher ceiling than anyone else outside the top 8 and as someone who values upside a lot, that's really intriguing to me.

I also really like players who improve at a fast rate because I think it shows the ability to get better and for guys that generally aren't good enough to play in the NHL when they're drafted, their ability to improve is such a big part of how good they end up becoming.

The narrative that Quinn is a guy who, before this year, was a pretty mediocre hockey player and that all of his appeal is based on one breakout season as an older player surrounded by a ton of talent is definitely true, but I think there's also a lot evidence supporting the narrative that 1) he's a late bloomer because he didn't start focusing on hockey until later than his peers and 2) because of the way the 67's set up their lines, his breakout wasn't a function of being surrounded by talent but was driven by his own play. I also think that, if you watch him play, it's clear that he's a guy with a ton of talent.

I don't have any illusions of being a real scout or anything, I just do this stuff for fun, so I could definitely be wrong. But I do have a different viewpoint on him from what I've seen here so far and thought it was worth expressing for conversation's sake.


There definitely are a lot of ifs with him. Late born for this draft, but the multi-sport aspect is huge. Look at someone like K'Andre for positioning, too. These things happen, sometimes for the better.

After doing some more research, you're right. Rossi only assisted on 13 of Quinn's goals this year and they barely played on a line together at even strength. My fault, I had my information wrong @bl02. So 39 of Quinn's 52 goals came from someone else (or himself) and not Rossi. But I think the Zibanejad comparison stylistically is not there. I could argue a stylistic comparison to TJ Oshie, instead. Don't think Quinn has that 3rd gear that Mika has, yet, but can still go in one-on-one and cut to center for a shot. Something Oshie does very well. When the puck isn't on his stick, though, he does tend to lose his man and did have a bad turnover in the clips you provided. Also, something that Oshie does often, lolol. That's not a big fault, though, everyone lets a bad one go sometimes.

So all-in-all Quinn got bumped up from me a bit, again getting my information wrong. But he is still a big question-mark. He still looks to be complimentary scorer from a playmaker rather than his own work ethic. But it is intriguing now that he primarily did this on his own and not from Rossi.
 
Also after some more research, Jarvis is looking like a solid pickup, too. Super quick, slick and fast. IQ is amazing. I get Marner vibes from him.

Won't lie, kind of upset with myself for not speaking about him sooner....
 
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