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Prospect Info: 2020 2nd Rd Selection - #59 OA (via OTT) - C Roni Hirvonen (Assat) - 5'9 164

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Martin Skoula said:
It's worth taking those guys, just not 15th overall. You just have to be very strict about disqualifiers, for example Nielsen's bad footwork isn't something that's going to get fixed regardless of how much faster Barb can make him. If a guy can't make a breakout pass, odds are he isn't going to suddenly get faster at thinking at 20.

But a guy like Liljegren can grow an inch and add 20 pounds to his frame.
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It's worth taking them if you think they're the best player available at the time and they have the best chance of making an NHL impact.

If anyone knows my "preference" it doesnt matter the size of a player, I look for things I think will make a player a good NHLer, especially outside the 1st round. I had 6'4" Brandon Coe at the beginning of my 2nd round. He ended up going in the 4th! That to me is the type of player you take with that size (not ahead of Niemela and maybe Hirvonen granted), not a guy like Kleven who barely knows which side of the stick to play with.
 
Morgs said:
It's worth taking them if you think they're the best player available at the time and they have the best chance of making an NHL impact.

If anyone knows my "preference" it doesnt matter the size of a player, I look for things I think will make a player a good NHLer, especially outside the 1st round. I had 6'4" Brandon Coe at the beginning of my 2nd round. He ended up going in the 4th! That to me is the type of player you take with that size (not ahead of Niemela and maybe Hirvonen granted), not a guy like Kleven who barely knows which side of the stick to play with.
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Yeah I mean there's no shame in drafting Polak, but even Polak was drafted with the idea that he could become a top-4 guy. Hell he put up 26 points at ES one year, even cavemen like that need viable puck skills.

I will say that BPA isn't necessarily correct 100% of the time, most valuable player available would probably be a better description. If you have a 6'4 RHD with IQ and puck skills, but there's a 5'9 winger that your model predicts will average 0.5 more wins a year throughout his career, the RHD is probably a better call even if he projects to be "worse". If they both hit their realistic ceilings, the D is going to return more in a trade (or save you more by not having to trade for one).
 
Martin Skoula said:
Yeah I mean there's no shame in drafting Polak, but even Polak was drafted with the idea that he could become a top-4 guy. Hell he put up 26 points at ES one year, even cavemen like that need viable puck skills.

I will say that BPA isn't necessarily correct 100% of the time, most valuable player available would probably be a better description. If you have a 6'4 RHD with IQ and puck skills, but there's a 5'9 winger that your model predicts will average 0.5 more wins a year throughout his career, the RHD is probably a better call even if he projects to be "worse". If they both hit their realistic ceilings, the D is going to return more in a trade (or save you more by not having to trade for one).
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I mean absolutely. It's just not how it always works out unfortunately.
 
Morgs said:
I mean absolutely. It's just not how it always works out unfortunately.
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Yeah the downside is taking Dermott/Carlo over a small winger in Aho. I think if Aho was a sure-thing C at the time of the draft it would have gone differently.
 
Morgs said:
We also have to remember when it comes to drafting "bigger" players the ones that have the qualities that Dubas looks for (IQ, skill, skating, determination, production, etc) in a player are normally gone within the first 10 or 15 picks because as much as we'd want guys like that, so does everyone else. Very rarely do teams find Colton Parayko's outside the top-15, and if they're drafting for that mold they'll 99% of the time end up with guys like Neilsen or Middleton instead.
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Agreed. The problem with picks like Middelton, Gordeev, among others are that you knew skills were really limited, so there was no chance they become a Parayko. At least with Neilsen, there was legit offensive upside but his feet were attrocious that not even Barb had an answer for. Combine that with low IQ and it's not looking good.
These are the picks Dubas will be avoiding and for good reason. Now if you get someone with size with other viable skills, I'm sure Dubas will jump on it, but as you mentioned, those guys are usually gone high in the draft.
 
RoadWarrior said:
Hirvonen with a huge clutch goal against the Swedes today as the icing on a great overall performance. Love his work ethic and passing game.
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He really needed that goal. By all accounts just not getting much puck luck. Dubas as certainly amassed some high hockey IQ, skilled and good skating players. Just wish a few more of them had some size abs weight to them.
 
Am I crazy? I feel like hirvonen clearly should be awarded an assist on Lundell’s tying goal. No Swedish player touched the puck in between hirvonen>lundell>heinola>lundell (goal)
 
Twine Tickler said:
Am I crazy? I feel like hirvonen clearly should be awarded an assist on Lundell’s tying goal. No Swedish player touched the puck in between hirvonen>lundell>heinola>lundell (goal)
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No your right. Strange they haven't given him one yet.
 
stickty111 said:
No your right. Strange they haven't given him one yet.
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Ok at least I am not alone. It’s so weird, there really was nothing in question in my mind. I am actually confused how he wasn’t awarded the assist immediately. There didn't seem to be anything complicated about it. To me at least lol
 
Twine Tickler said:
Am I crazy? I feel like hirvonen clearly should be awarded an assist on Lundell’s tying goal. No Swedish player touched the puck in between hirvonen>lundell>heinola>lundell (goal)
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The IIHF are a lot stingier on those kind of plays where the goal scorer was the last and 3rd last guy to touch it. They often don't give the assist to the 4th last guy to touch it.
 
Canada4Gold said:
The IIHF are a lot stingier on those kind of plays where the goal scorer was the last and 3rd last guy to touch it. They often don't give the assist to the 4th last guy to touch it.
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Hmm that’s really strange. I guess that would make sense why he hasn’t been credited for the assist yet. I mean, it’s Not like he did anything spectacular to deserve the assist. But nonetheless, that’s an assist in any league in the world except the IIHF i guess lol
 
Not quite as chippy but he's reminding me of Darcy Tucker a bit.
 
Canada4Gold said:
The IIHF are a lot stingier on those kind of plays where the goal scorer was the last and 3rd last guy to touch it. They often don't give the assist to the 4th last guy to touch it.
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I wish the NHL did away with the second assist....soap box rant.
It IMO is a useless statistic and under values the primary assist getter.
 
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Showing some nice promise as a top 9 forward, that can add some grit and tenacity up front.

And stepping up in a big moment to win the game is what you want to see out of your prospects
 
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The Iceman said:
I wish the NHL did away with the second assist....soap box rant.
It IMO is a useless statistic and under values the primary assist getter.
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Meh, there are many goals where the secondary assist getter is as important as anyone on the goal, like on Hirvonen's 1st period assist against Slovakia.

You would also have significantly lower point totals around the league which opens up a number of issues as the secondary assists has counted in players point totals since the 1930's.
 
It got kind of overshadowed with the whole end-of-game magic, but it should also be noted that he screened the goalie perfectly on the game-tying goal, and he set up a beautiful grade A+ scoring chance right before he scored the GWG.
 
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My review on Hirvonen
Was higher on Niemela and still am, but Hirvonen is proving me wrong on how good his quality is. Love the way he plays. He's really good at making simple plays, and showed some high end playmaking too. Good in his feet and good edges but needs to add a step. It's clear his IQ is really good and was a dependable player in all 3 zones. Has a pest element which is nice, and not afraid to battle in the corners despite his smaller frame. Was used in the net front area at times on the PP. He plays a simple game but has offensive upside too.

He just needs time. Needs to fill out and get stronger. A step quicker too.
I am saying 3-4 years until he ready.
 
I really like Hirvonen and hopes that contribute to the Leafs oneday, but his size worries me. He reminds me of Soshnikov. I really liked Sosh, but he didn't fit the team. Not sure how Hirvonen might fit?
 
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