Rumor: 2020-21 Trade Rumours and FA Part VIII: Intra-Playoff Edition?

[The Abusement Park]

That's true, unfortunately the Avs #2 C just can't keep his head straight. Whether they go with Kadri for one more year or not, they need the #2 C for sure

I’d just get a 2C and put Kadri at 3C. It’ll piss him off I’m sure, but I’m sure getting suspended pissed of this entire organization.

 

[Foppa2118]

Just brainstorming but here's an idea for an off season.

Just barely makes it under the cap and they might have issues with bonus overages unless they get some LTIR relief during the season. But that D core is plenty big and skilled at the same time and they keep both Saad and Burky.

- Trade Girard, Compher, and 1st for Seth Jones (might need more but G is under contract for cheap long term and Jones only has 1 year left and doesn't want to re-sign with Columbus)
- Lose Donskoi to Seattle in expansion
- Re-sign Landy to $7M x 5
- Re-sign Makar to $9M x 6
- Re-sign Saad for $5M x 3
- Re-sign Grubauer for $6M x 3
- Sign Joel Armia or someone similar for $3.5M x 4 to replace Donskoi
- Re-sign Jost for $1.75M x 2 (might be able to get it for less)
- Trade EJ + Timmins to Seattle or elsewhere so they can buy EJ out
- Sign EJ for $2M x 2 (makes up for lost salary in buyout) (Caps were cleared by the NHL in Orpik signing)

They should push to re-sign Jones in 2022-23 as well. It'll be tricky but they can make it work. They'll be gaining $9.4M in cap space with Kadri and Burakovsky's deals expiring and Newhook might be able to replace Kadri for cheap. Hopefully the cap goes up as well.

 

[flyfysher]

After reading the last 10 pages here, the two main things people seem to want are an upgrade at center and an upgrade on defense.

The center talk hinges largely on an assumption. If you assume the Avs are going to move Kadri, then 2C becomes a huge need (just like it was before we traded for Kadri). If we are not moving Kadri, however, then the need switches to 3C, and there's a chance that the Avs feel they can fill that internally with Jost/Newhook/Compher (shudder). I personally think this would be a mistake, but if it's a question of keeping Saad or overpaying for a 3C, I might go with Saad and hope Newhook is ready.

On defense, obviously all the talk is about Seth Jones, and fair enough. He appears to be exactly what we need - a big defenseman who can actually play, and who shoots right. Potentially the perfectly balanced top four of Makar, Toews, Jones and Byram. The issue as I see it is this: Columbus is going to want a center in return, and I doubt that means Nazem Kadri. I think Columbus would want any Jones deal to include Newhook. So if we're planning deals for Jones, we might want to consider deals that include Girard and Newhook. At that point though I think we're better off just keeping our players and signing a veteran RD instead. Maybe, just maybe though Sakic can pull off another magician act and make it Jost+Girard as the key pieces for Jones (extended).

Add Elvis to the Jones equation. It’s a pipe dream I know but…

 

[dahrougem2]

Just brainstorming but here's an idea for an off season.

Just barely makes it under the cap and they might have issues with bonus overages unless they get some LTIR relief during the season. But that D core is plenty big and skilled at the same time and they keep both Saad and Burky.

- Trade Girard, Compher, and 1st for Seth Jones (might need more but G is under contract for cheap long term and Jones only has 1 year left and doesn't want to re-sign with Columbus)
- Lose Donskoi to Seattle in expansion
- Re-sign Landy to $7M x 5
- Re-sign Makar to $9M x 6
- Re-sign Saad for $5M x 3
- Sign Joel Armia or someone similar for $3.5M x 4 to replace Donskoi
- Re-sign Jost for $1.75M x 2 (might be able to get it for less)
- Trade EJ + Timmins to Seattle or elsewhere so they can buy EJ out
- Sign EJ for $2M x 2 (makes up for lost salary in buyout) (Caps were cleared by the NHL in Orpik signing)

They should push to re-sign Jones in 2022-23 as well. It'll be tricky but they can make it work. They'll be gaining $9.4M in cap space with Kadri and Burakovsky's deals expiring and Newhook might be able to replace Kadri for cheap. Hopefully the cap goes up as well.

I don't mind, but I've got some observations:

1) I can't stand that 4th line. I don't know if I want Ranta in the NHL full time especially on a 4th line next season. I'm also very against Tyson Jost getting almost a full 1M/year raise. If he wants anything over 1M/season you renounce his rights and allow him to become a UFA. He's just not good enough to be anything other than a 4th line forward.

2) Not sure how I feel about using Timmins to get Seattle to buy out EJ and then bring EJ back. I loved what I saw from Timmins in the playoffs, and he showed this season he stayed mostly healthy but especially in the playoffs once the physical play ramped up. He seems more confident now, and with EJ all but certain to get injured again and again I'd rather have Timmins in the lineup on that 3rd pairing.

3) I'm still of the opinion that the Avs need to jettison Kadri and find a more reliable 2C. How that looks, I've got no idea but Kadri ain't it for me. 3 of 4 playoff series' he's ever been apart of he's been suspended while watching his team get eliminated, that ain't no coincidence anymore it's a standard. Don't want him.

 

[MarkT]

Just brainstorming but here's an idea for an off season.

Just barely makes it under the cap and they might have issues with bonus overages unless they get some LTIR relief during the season. But that D core is plenty big and skilled at the same time and they keep both Saad and Burky.

- Trade Girard, Compher, and 1st for Seth Jones (might need more but G is under contract for cheap long term and Jones only has 1 year left and doesn't want to re-sign with Columbus)
- Lose Donskoi to Seattle in expansion
- Re-sign Landy to $7M x 5
- Re-sign Makar to $9M x 6
- Re-sign Saad for $5M x 3
- Re-sign Grubauer for $6M x 3
- Sign Joel Armia or someone similar for $3.5M x 4 to replace Donskoi
- Re-sign Jost for $1.75M x 2 (might be able to get it for less)
- Trade EJ + Timmins to Seattle or elsewhere so they can buy EJ out
- Sign EJ for $2M x 2 (makes up for lost salary in buyout) (Caps were cleared by the NHL in Orpik signing)

They should push to re-sign Jones in 2022-23 as well. It'll be tricky but they can make it work. They'll be gaining $9.4M in cap space with Kadri and Burakovsky's deals expiring and Newhook might be able to replace Kadri for cheap. Hopefully the cap goes up as well.

I'm very skeptical that Columbus is going to want to take on our cap dump (Compher) in a deal for Jones. We would probably either need to retain (if they like Compher's game), or change that to Jost. I bet they can get a better deal elsewhere in any case.

I'm also not sure about your contract signings. Saad at 5 x 3? That would be amazing, but I'm not sure how realistic it is.

Add Elvis to the Jones equation. It’s a pipe dream I know but…

How about...
Girard + Jost + Compher + Francouz + 1st for Jones (extended) + Merzlikins

 

[Barklez]

Am I the only one that remembers the NHL saying they’d crack down the next time teams tried an Orpik—>Avs buyout—>Caps resign situation again?

 

[dahrougem2]

Am I the only one that remembers the NHL saying they’d crack down the next time teams tried an Orpik—>Avs buyout—>Caps resign situation again?

Is there anything written in the CBA that strictly prohibits that from being done? Because if not, I don't see how the NHL could enforce any sort of punishment.

 

[Foppa2118]

I don't mind, but I've got some observations:

1) I can't stand that 4th line. I don't know if I want Ranta in the NHL full time especially on a 4th line next season. I'm also very against Tyson Jost getting almost a full 1M/year raise. If he wants anything over 1M/season you renounce his rights and allow him to become a UFA. He's just not good enough to be anything other than a 4th line forward.

2) Not sure how I feel about using Timmins to get Seattle to buy out EJ and then bring EJ back. I loved what I saw from Timmins in the playoffs, and he showed this season he stayed mostly healthy but especially in the playoffs once the physical play ramped up. He seems more confident now, and with EJ all but certain to get injured again and again I'd rather have Timmins in the lineup on that 3rd pairing.

3) I'm still of the opinion that the Avs need to jettison Kadri and find a more reliable 2C. How that looks, I've got no idea but Kadri ain't it for me. 3 of 4 playoff series' he's ever been apart of he's been suspended while watching his team get eliminated, that ain't no coincidence anymore it's a standard. Don't want him.

The 4th line is something they can go into the season with and then made adjustments if they need to around the deadline. Jost could get less than $1.75M like I mentioned, but I don't think he's going to get under $1M.

Sucks to lose Timmins but I honestly don't feel he has a long term spot on this team with Barron and Helleson as rightys possibly a year or two away. If they have Makar and Jones in the top 4 they only need one more righty, and that can be EJ until Barron or Helleson are ready.

Also it's not just about bringing EJ back it's about clearing $4M to help re-sign Saad. It's gonna cost something decent to get a team to buyout EJ and this is much preferable to buying him out and then getting stuck with a $2M cap hit for 4 years or withholding $3M in dead cap space just to trade him somewhere he won't get bought out.

I can understand the desire to move on from Kadri but I think it's going to be real tough to find a better replacement and if they do he's probably going to cost a lot more than Kadri. Only spending $4.5M on the Avs 2C helps them spend more on other areas of the lineup.

 

[flyfysher]

How about...
Girard + Jost + Compher + Francouz + 1st for Jones (extended) + Merzlikins

Jump on that now!

 

[flyfysher]

The 4th line is something they can go into the season with and then made adjustments if they need to around the deadline. Jost could get less than $1.75M like I mentioned, but I don't think he's going to get under $1M.

Sucks to lose Timmins but I honestly don't feel he has a long term spot on this team with Barron and Helleson as rightys a year or so away. Also it's not just about bringing EJ back it's about clearing $4M to help re-sign Saad. It's gonna cost something decent to get a team to buyout EJ and this is much preferable to buying him out and then getting stuck with a $2M cap hit for 4 years or withholding $3M in dead cap space just to trade him somewhere he won't get bought out.

I can understand the desire to move on from Kadri but I think it's going to be real tough to find a better replacement and if they do he's probably going to cost a lot more than Kadri. Only spending $4.5M on the Avs 2C helps them spend more on other areas of the lineup.

It’s an imperative to dump Kadri before the next PO.

 

[dahrougem2]

The 4th line is something they can go into the season with and then made adjustments if they need to around the deadline. Jost could get less than $1.75M like I mentioned, but I don't think he's going to get under $1M.

Sucks to lose Timmins but I honestly don't feel he has a long term spot on this team with Barron and Helleson as righty's a year or so away. Also it's not just about bringing EJ back it's about clearing $4M to help re-sign Saad. It's gonna cost something decent to get a team to buyout EJ and this is much preferable to buying him out and then getting stuck with a $2M cap hit for 4 years or withholding $3M in dead cap space just to trade him somewhere he won't get bought out.

I can understand the desire to move on from Kadri but I think it's going to be real tough to find a better replacement and if they do he's probably going to cost a lot more than Kadri. Only spending $4.5M on the Avs 2C helps them spend more on other areas of the lineup.

I see your point on EJ. It's almost EJ retained + Saad for Timmins, so I'd be for it.

That 4th line though, I don't know. I think major, major upgrades are needed in the form of big bodies that can play. Thinking Derek Grant, Nicolas Deslauriers types of players. But I'm also bullish on Jost and don't want him anywhere near this team moving forward. Not good enough for the first three lines, too small for the 4th line.

With Kadri, I hope Sakic isn't putting all his eggs in that basket. Either he needs to upgrade that position and get rid of Kadri, or he needs to bring someone in that can play 3C that is on a similar level to Kadri (Danault/Gourde types) that can step in when Kadri inevitably does something idiotic again.

 

[Foppa2118]

Am I the only one that remembers the NHL saying they’d crack down the next time teams tried an Orpik—>Avs buyout—>Caps resign situation again?

That's what I thought too but when I went back and looked the NHL did a through investigation and cleared Washington of any circumvention. Washington claimed they asked a lot of tough questions and they answered them all honestly and that was it.

 

[Vaslof]

He will get injured without a doubt, possibly even multiple times. The man is a liability at this point for not being able to play games, everyone following the Avs should know this by now.

Games last 3 seasons before this one:
59 games, 9 in playoffs
80 games, 12 in playoffs
62 games, 0 in playoffs

 

[Foppa2118]

I'm very skeptical that Columbus is going to want to take on our cap dump (Compher) in a deal for Jones. We would probably either need to retain (if they like Compher's game), or change that to Jost. I bet they can get a better deal elsewhere in any case.

I'm also not sure about your contract signings. Saad at 5 x 3? That would be amazing, but I'm not sure how realistic it is.

Yeah like I mentioned they may have to tweak the deal. I'd be ok with adding Kaut too. I'm not sure he has a future on a Bednar coached team. He doesn't seem to play the way Bednar wants and as we've seen with Z and Greer, that's enough to keep him out of the lineup.

Columbus is 25th in their projected cap this year though and they'd be saving $400k by swapping Jones for Girard, so they should have plenty of cap space to fit Compher in for a couple more years.

Plus Girard will be a lot cheaper than Jones after next season when he gets his new deal. That cost certainty and long term deal with G might be a big bonus for a small market team like Columbus that doesn't always want to spend a lot, and has trouble drawing in talented UFA's.

I think the bigger hurdle is whether they think Girard will fit into how their team plays under Brad Larsen. I don't know enough about Larsen's philosophies away from Torts to comment on that. But if they're looking to improve their puck mobility then G is their guy.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Am I the only one that remembers the NHL saying they’d crack down the next time teams tried an Orpik—>Avs buyout—>Caps resign situation again?

Yeah, they gave a very strong warning to the Avs and Caps and basically told all other teams in the league not to try that again.


There's nothing in the CBA about it but there doesn't have to be. If the league believes a trade or teams are circumventing the cap they can choose to punish accordingly.

 

[MarkT]

Yeah like I mentioned they may have to tweak the deal. I'd be ok with adding Kaut too. I'm not sure he has a future on a Bednar coached team. He doesn't seem to play the way Bednar wants and as we've seen with Z and Greer, that's enough to keep him out of the lineup.

Columbus is 25th in their projected cap this year though and they'd be saving $400k by swapping Jones for Girard, so they should have plenty of cap space to fit Compher in for a couple more years.

Plus Girard will be a lot cheaper than Jones after next season when he gets his new deal. That cost certainty and long term deal with G might be a big bonus for a small market team like Columbus that doesn't always want to spend a lot, and has trouble drawing in talented UFA's.

I think the bigger hurdle is whether they think Girard will fit into how their team plays under Brad Larsen. I don't know enough about Larsen's philosophies away from Torts to comment on that. But if they're looking to improve their puck mobility then G is their guy.

I think it's more along the lines of Compher having essentially negative value at his cap hit. It's not about whether they can afford him - it's about whether they'd accept a deal where they're losing Jones and gaining another team's bad contract.

 

[Foppa2118]

If the NHL let Tampa keep Kucherov off the cap the entire season they should be able to let the Avs bring back EJ like they let Washington bring back Orpik.

If they wanted to set a precedent they should have done so by preventing the Orpik signing. I'm sure Colorado and Washington worked out a second deal to make in the Caps favor, if the NHL had rejected the Orpik signing.

The same way they could have set a precedent with the Kane and Kucherov LTIR loopholes, but they didn't. Not doing anything about Kane gave the green light to Tampa and not doing anything about Tampa has given the green light to everyone else.

It's kind of silly if the NHL wants to pick and choose which teams get to get away with cap circumvention. They either need to be strict in enforcing it or they need to let teams do what they've let other teams do in the past.

 

[Avsboy]

He will get injured without a doubt, possibly even multiple times. The man is a liability at this point for not being able to play games, everyone following the Avs should know this by now.

Only EJ’s body knows how badly he is injured and whether he will be injured in the future

 

[hughdreamz]

I'm very skeptical that Columbus is going to want to take on our cap dump (Compher) in a deal for Jones. We would probably either need to retain (if they like Compher's game), or change that to Jost. I bet they can get a better deal elsewhere in any case.

I'm also not sure about your contract signings. Saad at 5 x 3? That would be amazing, but I'm not sure how realistic it is.



How about...
Girard + Jost + Compher + Francouz + 1st for Jones (extended) + Merzlikins

I would NEVER do this. If we were to trade for Jones I would prefer to send a smaller package and receive him without the extension. Dude has been bad for 2 years. No way I’m moving Girard.

 

[Avaholic29]

I would NEVER do this. If we were to trade for Jones I would prefer to send a smaller package and receive him without the extension. Dude has been bad for 2 years. No way I’m moving Girard.

girard is a liability against contenders with any sort of size and forecheck. It’s a different game come summer time. Love the guy too but we have plenty of what he offers.

 

[hughdreamz]

girard is a liability against contenders with any sort of size and forecheck. It’s a different game come summer time. Love the guy too but we have plenty of what he offers.

He had one bad round and everyone is writing him off. He’s a top for 4 on a great contract long term. Jones has been bad for a while now. Rather sign Oleksiak than overspend on Jones.

 

[Avaholic29]

He had one bad round and everyone is writing him off. He’s a top for 4 on a great contract long term. Jones has been bad for a while now. Rather sign Oleksiak than overspend on Jones.

Girard has been bad 4 playoffs in a row. The first two were chalked up to him being young but after witnessing the slaughter Vegas put on him it’s pretty clear we are better off with a two way RHD and Injecting byram as another puck moving LHD. Jones is a casualty of his team he’s an absolute beast two way guy, blocks a ton and just a solid hockey IQ

 

[dahrougem2]

Yeah, they gave a very strong warning to the Avs and Caps and basically told all other teams in the league not to try that again.


There's nothing in the CBA about it but there doesn't have to be. If the league believes a trade or teams are circumventing the cap they can choose to punish accordingly.

I don't believe the NHL would do anything about it. If they cared, they would have stopped the Orpik buyout/re-signing from actually happening. Like you said, the NHL can choose to punish accordingly but they let that one slide. The Avs can use that as precedent.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

I don't believe the NHL would do anything about it. If they cared, they would have stopped the Orpik buyout/re-signing from actually happening. Like you said, the NHL can choose to punish accordingly but they let that one slide. The Avs can use that as precedent.

They came very close to doing just that.

Ultimately they allowed it because it was technically not a violation of any rules... But like I said, they made it very clear to all 31 teams in the league not to try that kind of move again.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

NHL clears Capitals on trading, signing Brooks Orpik after buyout - Sportsnet.ca

Here's an article about it.


You're not allowed to sign a player after buying him out. Washington skirted that rule by trading him to the Avs so we could buy him out and he signs back in Washington for less.


The league investigated and basically determined that the Caps intentions at the time of trading him to us for the sake of a buyout wasn't to resign him. But only layer on in the summer after things had unfolded did they decide to bring him back.

Again, the league warned all 31 teams about doing this in the future.

The Avs could try it, but it simply wouldn't work.