2020/21 Roster Thread IV: A New Hope

[Beef Invictus]

I think it’s a pipe dream they get rid of Hagg before his contract is up anyways with his relationship with Lindblom and everything that happened. I think they will just let him walk after next year.

Hopefully he is the #7 next year but we all know how that works.

At this point we can never presume the team will muster the competency to see Hogg for what he is.

 

[Starat327]

Wait, I thought we didn't want to block our prospects?

The late start for the AHL is a problem, had they started in January we'd have a better read on Hogberg and Zamula, the two most likely callups. And whether that extra CHL season for Wylie has him closer to the NHL. But if we're going with prospects, doesn't it make sense to do what we did last year, rotate forwards through until NAK took the job?

Same with the TDL, if you think York is NHL ready after his second college season, do you want to trade for someone or just give York a couple weeks in the AHL then call him up - he won't be the first college player to go from college to a NHL playoff.

So unless someone makes "an offer he can't refuse" I'm hoping that Fletcher keeps his cool.

You are the king of "give them a year in the AHL" and continue to trot out this idea that Friedman hasn't done any better than Hagg (which isn't true, I digress) so he hasn't earned the spot.

You're doing it with Friedman. You did it with Frost last year in lieu of Stewart, Grant and Thompson, with the justification of "coaches wanted X player/role". The coach next year will presumably be the same, so if he still wants that Hagg 'role', it won't matter what any of them do in the AHL this year. Hes proven it time and time again. As "terrible" a year as Ghost had last year, he was still markedly better than Hagg, and yet, here we are. York would have to step into the NHL and play at a top 4 level in order to get a spot, which is an unrealistic expectation. So well continue to trot out Braun-Hagg because "experience/role", despite them being markedly worse now and in the future, than other players.

 

[renberg]

Any interest in the Sabres' Montour?

 

[mja]

I'd legit like to see Morin get a few games in at LD on the 3rd pair to see if he can hang. I don't have much hope but it can't be any worse than Hagg & Gus.

Provorov Ghost - I've only been begging for this pair to get reunited for literal YEARS.
Sanheim Braun
Morin Friedman - by the way, Friedman is the 5th best defenseman on the roster and should be ahead of Hagg, Gus, & Braun on the depth chart but won't be because he's not veterany enough.

When Myers comes back, Braun can become the 7. Fire Hagg and Gus off into outer space for all I care.

If we can acquire a guy to step into that bottom LD role and jettison off Hagg or Gus in exchange, I'd be more than happy to throw in an early-mid round pick to make that happen. It'd be worth it just to get them off the f***ing roster.

 

[deadhead]

You are the king of "give them a year in the AHL" and continue to trot out this idea that Friedman hasn't done any better than Hagg (which isn't true, I digress) so he hasn't earned the spot.

You're doing it with Friedman. You did it with Frost last year in lieu of Stewart, Grant and Thompson, with the justification of "coaches wanted X player/role". The coach next year will presumably be the same, so if he still wants that Hagg 'role', it won't matter what any of them do in the AHL this year. Hes proven it time and time again. As "terrible" a year as Ghost had last year, he was still markedly better than Hagg, and yet, here we are. York would have to step into the NHL and play at a top 4 level in order to get a spot, which is an unrealistic expectation. So well continue to trot out Braun-Hagg because "experience/role", despite them being markedly worse now and in the future, than other players.

Friedman showed nothing last season. He's starting to show more now, and that's why this two week stretch is so important to him, at 25 with an opportunity to win a job, well, win the job!

I mean the idea you give a job to a prospect is silly, you give an opportunity to a prospect, and AV certainly did that last season, injuries played a part, but Stewart and Andreoff played fewer minutes than Farabee, NAK, Frost, Vorobyev, Bunnaman and Twarynski, and you can make a strong case that Andreoff > Vorobyev and as good as Twarynski. Bunnaman stunk out the joint early in the season yet still got another shot.

Friedman got 6 games last year and was bad last season. He's going to get 10 or so games before Myers returns, it's up to him to earn the coach's confidence.

AV has no attachment to Hagg (other than the Lindblom situation), Braun was brought back as a 3rd pair patch due to Niskanen's retirement. Gus is gone after this season. A great opportunity for young players to step up and win a job.

York doesn't have to be top 4, he just has to show in April that he's NHL ready.
You can instantly plug him in with Friedman or Braun on the 3rd pair.
He'll play right away for the same reason Farabee did, high IQ.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Friedman showed nothing last season. He's starting to show more now, and that's why this two week stretch is so important to him, at 25 with an opportunity to win a job, well, win the job!

I mean the idea you give a job to a prospect is silly, you give an opportunity to a prospect, and AV certainly did that last season, injuries played a part, but Stewart and Andreoff played fewer minutes than Farabee, NAK, Frost, Vorobyev, Bunnaman and Twarynski, and you can make a strong case that Andreoff > Vorobyev and as good as Twarynski. Bunnaman stunk out the joint early in the season yet still got another shot.

Friedman got 6 games last year and was bad last season. He's going to get 10 or so games before Myers returns, it's up to him to earn the coach's confidence.

AV has no attachment to Hagg (other than the Lindblom situation), Braun was brought back as a 3rd pair patch due to Niskanen's retirement. Gus is gone after this season. A great opportunity for young players to step up and win a job.

York doesn't have to be top 4, he just has to show in April that he's NHL ready.
You can instantly plug him in with Friedman or Braun on the 3rd pair.
He'll play right away for the same reason Farabee did, high IQ.

AV obviously has an attachment to Hagg. He has repeatedly played him over superior players.

 

[Starat327]

Friedman showed nothing last season. He's starting to show more now, and that's why this two week stretch is so important to him, at 25 with an opportunity to win a job, well, win the job!

I mean the idea you give a job to a prospect is silly, you give an opportunity to a prospect, and AV certainly did that last season, injuries played a part, but Stewart and Andreoff played fewer minutes than Farabee, NAK, Frost, Vorobyev, Bunnaman and Twarynski, and you can make a strong case that Andreoff > Vorobyev and as good as Twarynski. Bunnaman stunk out the joint early in the season yet still got another shot.

Friedman got 6 games last year and was bad last season. He's going to get 10 or so games before Myers returns, it's up to him to earn the coach's confidence.

AV has no attachment to Hagg (other than the Lindblom situation), Braun was brought back as a 3rd pair patch due to Niskanen's retirement. Gus is gone after this season. A great opportunity for young players to step up and win a job.

York doesn't have to be top 4, he just has to show in April that he's NHL ready.
You can instantly plug him in with Friedman or Braun on the 3rd pair.
He'll play right away for the same reason Farabee did, high IQ.

Frost played better than all of the players you listed, and he wasn't played over them. He then sat for months on end not getting game time while we trotted out players who would not only not be with us in the future, but were active detriments to the team.

We continue to do the same with Hagg to this very date, so to say AV has no attachment is a blatant lie. Theres something there, to some degree that makes gim feel like he needs Hagg, and there's a failure to criticism him despite being the worst player on the ice in 99 out of 100 games he plays.

No one wants to gift a roster spot to a prospect, but we have several who demonstrated an ability to play above current roster players, and they disnt stick around. The idea of your play earning your spot coulsnt be any less true here.

 

[Rebels57]

Any interest in the Sabres' Montour?

Yes.

 

[freakydallas13]

Oh, Captain! My, Captain!

Hayes is the third best Flyers after G and Sanhiem, confirmed

 

[DancingPanther]

 

[Stizzle]

Oh, Captain! My, Captain!

Oh, look, Laughton stinks, and Sanheim rules. Big shock.

 

[deadhead]

Frost played better than all of the players you listed, and he wasn't played over them. He then sat for months on end not getting game time while we trotted out players who would not only not be with us in the future, but were active detriments to the team.

Frost struggled on defense, and did little offensively after a hot two games (0-4 4 in 18 games), then was sent back to the AHL where he had a good, but not great season, basically the same scoring and metrics as career AHL guy Criscuolo.
He looked stronger and more decisive this year before he got hurt. A shame, because it looked like he was more ready to play this season.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

This feels like a good time to remember Friedman's 6 Games last year were paired with Hagg and they spent that time playing overwhelmingly with the Bottom 6.

They also faced other Bottom 6s to be fair.

 

[deadhead]

This feels like a good time to remember Friedman's 6 Games last year were paired with Hagg and they spent that time playing overwhelmingly with the Bottom 6.

They also faced other Bottom 6s to be fair.

If Friedman was 20, you could blame Hagg for dragging him down. A young player needs his D-partner to guide him.

But we're talking a 24 year old with 3 years college, 3 years AHL, if Hagg played worse with him than with other partners, Friedman has to take part of the blame last year.

He's playing better so far, though he's not as stout as I would have hoped, but only 3 games. We'll see.

Too often people here confuse hope with reality, that is, we hope a young player will step up and take the job, but that doesn't mean there's a guarantee, lots of prospects can't make the jump from AHL to NHL, or need a few tries.

We're seeing this with Bunnaman, putrid his first try, much better when he returned but his offensive skills were MIA, this year he's a stride faster but still struggling with finishing and board battles. Progress, but maybe another year away from starting at 4C.

The one strong bias I see on this board is toward players who skate well in open ice, but probably 80% of the NHL game is played in "traffic," whether tight spaces in the O and D zones or neutral ice defenders taking away skating lanes. Which is why so many fast skaters have "meh" careers, and guys like Couts and Stone can excel. Skating fast is often the road to nowhere.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Friedman not being able to carry Hagg as effectively as good NHL players is expected and holding it against him is insane.

All that matters is that Friedman pretty much always outplays Hagg, and should never sit in favor of Hagg.

 

[flyersnorth]

Are you seriously?

Do you know we have Hagg-Braun in 3rd pair?

Very serious.

Admittedly I know nothing about him except what people here say, and what Blues fans say. Unsurprisingly, they are opposite opinions.

I mean, if it were a Gus for Dunn swap, sure, sign me up. I've seen enough of Gus to know I don't like his game.

Not really into giving up draft picks for mediocrity right now. Grant, Thompson, and Braun siphoned off a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and an AHL player.

SSDP.

 

[flyersnorth]

At this point we can never presume the team will muster the competency to see Hogg for what he is.

Surely they do see him for what he is, and they're ok with that.

 

[mja]

Friedman not being able to carry Hagg as effectively as good NHL players is expected and holding it against him is insane.

All that matters is that Friedman pretty much always outplays Hagg, and should never sit in favor of Hagg.

Right? I will never for the life of me understand why the same logic isn't applied to Hagg as it is to others. Hagg's literally the worst regular defenseman in the NHL. He's simply not nor has ever been a serviceable NHL player. Friedman's a much better player. Anything more than a 6/7 at the NHL level? No idea. But a much better player than Hagg? Absolutely.

 

[DancingPanther]

Oh, look, Laughton stinks, and Sanheim rules. Big shock.

Don't jump out of your chair now

 

[DancingPanther]

What people aren't fully grasping is it's basically 5 v 4.5 at best, and straight shorthanded at worst, with Hagg on the ice. Possession goes straight to the other team.

This fact is lost on those who criticize players who routinely don't play as well as they could (should?) with Hagg on the ice.

This is not to say playing with Hagg is a get out of criticisms free card, and to just blame everything on Bobert. Not the point. The point is to a) lower the expectations of players chained to the anchor or b) realize the situation and adjust expectations accordingly

 

[mja]

What people around fully grasping is it's basically 5 v 4.5 at best, and straight shorthanded at worst, with Hagg on the ice. Possession goes straight to the other team.

Exactly, he's a black hole in the same way that Chris Vande Velde was a black hole up front. He can't keep up mentally with the game and you're basically PKing with him on the ice, hence why we get pinned in our end when he's on the ice. But he tries really hard, and that's all that matters, right?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

defending Hogg being in the lineup is literaly Meatpig V2.0 all over again..

or VDV... exact same situations, same as it ever was...

 

[BringBackHakstol]

The hoops jumped through to defend hagg being on this roster is nauseating. It isn't that complicated

 

[deadhead]

Hagg keeps getting pushed down the lineup and people obsess on him.
I mean did he ask Niskanen to retire, Ghost to get COVID and Myers to get hurt?
Is he the reason the AHL starts a month after the NHL so no prospects could get a chance to jump ahead of him?
Did he cause TC to be limited to one week so Gus couldn't master the Flyers defensive scheme?

It's pretty obvious that when you look at the 2021-22 depth chart he's going to struggle to make the top six.
York would have to flop, and Hogberg, Zamula and Wylie show nothing in the AHL this spring.
You start with Provorov, Myers, Sanheim, maybe Friedman/Ghost depending on the ED.
And there's a good chance Fletcher will trade for a RHD.

The reason they want Hagg/Braun around is when you're talking #7 D-man or #13 forward in normal seasons, you want a veteran with NHL experience who can step in for a game or two - and keep your top prospects playing on a regular basis in the AHL. If there's a serious injury you can recall a prospect, but you don't want to mess with their development by parking them in the press box.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Hagg keeps getting pushed down the lineup and people obsess on him.
I mean did he ask Niskanen to retire, Ghost to get COVID and Myers to get hurt?
Is he the reason the AHL starts a month after the NHL so no prospects could get a chance to jump ahead of him?
Did he cause TC to be limited to one week so Gus couldn't master the Flyers defensive scheme?

It's pretty obvious that when you look at the 2021-22 depth chart he's going to struggle to make the top six.
York would have to flop, and Hogberg, Zamula and Wylie show nothing in the AHL this spring.
You start with Provorov, Myers, Sanheim, maybe Friedman/Ghost depending on the ED.
And there's a good chance Fletcher will trade for a RHD.

The reason they want Hagg/Braun around is when you're talking #7 D-man or #13 forward in normal seasons, you want a veteran with NHL experience who can step in for a game or two - and keep your top prospects playing on a regular basis in the AHL. If there's a serious injury you can recall a prospect, but you don't want to mess with their development by parking them in the press box.

He isn't pushed down the lineup, he's right where he's always been. The only difference is that the crowd of players behind him is getting both larger and higher quality.