2020/21 Roster Thread IV: A New Hope

[deadhead]

It's not about having 6 provorovs. It's about having 7 NHL defensemen with a modern game skillset. Hagg is a total liability due to his skillset, not because of his "overall quality"

Sounds great in theory, doesn't Pouliot have that skill set in theory. Of course, being able to skate and pass on empty ice isn't quite the same as doing it when there's someone forechecking you, or see Gus in action.

I mean how did 35 year old Bouwmeester play 20+ minutes a night for a SC winning Blues team?
You could probably review the roster of every SC winning team the last decade and find a couple stiffs at the back of their defense.

What a lot of teams do is pair a stiff who provides some defense and physical presence with a puck moving defenseman. Almost no team has a perfect roster, so you do your best to cover your flaws.

There's luck and timing as well, if we had these injuries in March, guys like Hogberg and Wylie would have been playing for a month and they'd have some idea if they were NHL ready.

 

[deadhead]

Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Shattenkirk, Bogosian all had at least 20 playoff appearances last season. That group shits all over whatever pairings the Flyers could assemble.

Bogosian? Imagine if the Flyers had signed him this offseason. Yeah, that would have garnered Fletcher a lot of praise.
He was sheltered in TB, he's being exposed in Toronto.

TB had probably the deepest defense of any top playoff team in a decade.
This year they have Rutta, Foote and L Schenn as their 5th to 7th D-men so far.

 

[AbsolutelyNot]

Hedman, McDonagh, Sergachev, Cernak, Shattenkirk, Bogosian all had at least 20 playoff appearances last season. That group shits all over whatever pairings the Flyers could assemble.

Correct, so what’s your solution? All I see on this board is a lot of bitching about what’s wrong and no ideas on how to realistically fix it? As mentioned by another poster above, teams that have good cheap legit NHL depth players aren’t getting rid of them. If the Flyers are going to improve their NHL roster, they’re going to have to either overpay via free agency (can’t, not enough cap space), or overpay in a trade, which shouldn’t be difficult given the amount of budding Gretzkys and Orrs they have in their system. If they opt to go that route, good luck trying to create cap space by unloading dead weight like JVR, or orher bloated contracts like Voracek.

 

[Cootsfanclub]

 

[BringBackHakstol]

You can go through a list of d signed in the last 2 years that would have been infinitely better than hagg, and some that would have been better than braun as well.

You can also start using your homegrown guys with a better skill set like Friedman.

Always excuses to ice the worst player in the NHL. Find another way

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Correct, so what’s your solution? All I see on this board is a lot of bitching about what’s wrong and no ideas on how to realistically fix it?

Then you weren't here in the offseason when many were talking about the Defensemen they wanted to add who either were available or were rumored to be. They chose the path of least resistance with Hagg, Braun, and Gustafsson. Thankfully the latter was only one year, which is I'm sure part of why Fletcher made that call.

I'm more than fine giving up prospects and/or picks. I just want to get good players back instead of bodies.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Jeez, I wonder why we don't have any cap space? I repeat: Jeez!

 

[tictactoe]

No reason not to win this game if we play decent two way hockey and capitalize on our chances.

 

[Starat327]

I liked it better here when COVID cancelled the season and we didnt have to deal with these types.

 

[Appleyard]

 

[deadhead]

Then you weren't here in the offseason when many were talking about the Defensemen they wanted to add who either were available or were rumored to be. They chose the path of least resistance with Hagg, Braun, and Gustafsson. Thankfully the latter was only one year, which is I'm sure part of why Fletcher made that call.

I'm more than fine giving up prospects and/or picks. I just want to get good players back instead of bodies.

Yeah, well there's this thing called the ED that counseled against making a major deal this past off-season.
Given COVID, and the potential for a clusterf-- this season (look at the NBA!) it was not a good time to roll the dice on a major acquisition, especially if it would force you to lose a better asset in the ED - you'd be paying twice.

I also remember that the only players we liked got 4 year deals.

I'm betting on a major trade or two after the ED, bringing in that 4th D-man so you don't have to give York or Zamula too much responsibility as rookies.

 

[Jettany]

I took it as not until the isle series. Because next 2 sets are on the road. Which made me think he had Covid. But you might be right because of jerseys proximity.

 

[Appleyard]

I took it as not until the isle series. Because next 2 sets are on the road. Which made me think he had Covid. But you might be right because of jerseys proximity.

They will practice in Philly between Bruins and Devils due to the gap I guess.

 

[Striiker]

 

[deadhead]

So we're talking 2-3 games we have to limp through?
We'll see if Friedman is ready to push someone out of the lineup. He wasn't last year.

 

[Jettany]

They will practice in Philly between Bruins and Devils due to the gap I guess.

Didn’t realize 2 days off. So should be back for devils. Need a split here. Get coots and Myers back in 2 weeks. See what Friedman has and forget about frost for a while.

 

[Striiker]

Ghost coming back is obviously huge but we just have to pray that the coaches realize that Friedman is clearly a better option than multiple D who were gifted unearned spots.

Then we just need Couturier and Myers back and we'll be looking pretty good. Just have to survive until then.

 

[Tripod]

except we also know that play on the ice means little when a coach has his favorites

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Yeah, well there's this thing called the ED that counseled against making a major deal this past off-season.
Given COVID, and the potential for a clusterf-- this season (look at the NBA!) it was not a good time to roll the dice on a major acquisition, especially if it would force you to lose a better asset in the ED - you'd be paying twice.

I also remember that the only players we liked got 4 year deals.

I'm betting on a major trade or two after the ED, bringing in that 4th D-man so you don't have to give York or Zamula too much responsibility as rookies.

You're going to lose something good in the ED no matter what you do. You can only lose one player, so we're just talking about moving a single slider here. To me, your aggressiveness should be determined by whether you think you can be a contender. You don't punt those years by counting on Braun, Hagg, and Gustafsson all at once. Too hard to come by.

If it meant adding a quality Defenseman you could play for more than a year or two at a reasonable cost, I'd be more than happy to throw out an expansion list with all of Gostisbehere, JVR, Voracek, and NAK on it. There are plenty of other options on the roster that wouldn't bother me either. I'm going to keep all but one of them.

 

[AbsolutelyNot]

Then you weren't here in the offseason when many were talking about the Defensemen they wanted to add who either were available or were rumored to be. They chose the path of least resistance with Hagg, Braun, and Gustafsson. Thankfully the latter was only one year, which is I'm sure part of why Fletcher made that call.

I'm more than fine giving up prospects and/or picks. I just want to get good players back instead of bodies.

With what cap space? The Gus signing was probably Fletcher’s first and only real head-scratching move. Hagg is going nowhere, he’s cheap labor for a serviceable 6/7 Dman, and he was kind of backed into a corner with Braun due to the sudden Niskanen retirement. The bigger issue, when it comes to the defense, is the lack of high risk-high reward drafting during the Hextall era. This team has far too many safe picks for guys that can be classified as “good, solid NHLers”, and not nearly enough home runs. That’s ultimately what seperates them from their defense as is, vs that of a team like Tampa.

 

[Striiker]

lol Fletcher is almost perfect too

only one head-scratcher

he had no choice

it's Hextalls fault for bad drafting

what a world we live in

 

[wankstifier]

Bogosian? Imagine if the Flyers had signed him this offseason. Yeah, that would have garnered Fletcher a lot of praise.
He was sheltered in TB, he's being exposed in Toronto.

TB had probably the deepest defense of any top playoff team in a decade.
This year they have Rutta, Foote and L Schenn as their 5th to 7th D-men so far.

He was clearly their 6th defenseman by ice time. Between Hägg and Bogosian, I’d easily choose the latter. Hägg’s not a serviceable defender in any role

 

[deadhead]

Problem is 4-4 you expose one of Lindblom or Patrick, 7-3, you expose Myers or Sanheim. Ouch.
And the cap hit from COVID made it difficult to package JVR or Voracek in a trade.

Given this team has a wide open window, didn't make sense to roll the dice in a season when anything bad can happen.

Next year, after the ED, it makes more sense, package say Millman, a 1st and say Allison for a top D-man in his 20s, or depending who they lose in the ED (a big salary?) gamble on a free agent.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

With what cap space? The Gus signing was probably Fletcher’s first and only real head-scratching move. Hagg is going nowhere, he’s cheap labor for a serviceable 6/7 Dman, and he was kind of backed into a corner with Braun due to the sudden Niskanen retirement. The bigger issue, when it comes to the defense, is the lack of high risk-high reward drafting during the Hextall era. This team has far too many safe picks for guys that can be classified as “good, solid NHLers”, and not nearly enough home runs. That’s ultimately what seperates them from their defense as is, vs that of a team like Tampa.

Fletcher signed all three of those Defensemen and you're well actuallying them all as if the only choices were them or nothing. There's nothing to respond to here.

What separates Tampa from the Flyers defensively is having 1OA in Victor Hedman's draft year and making an extremely smart investment in a low-cost, poorly-utilized post-hype mega UFA signing. One of those the Flyers had chances to do. They've largely failed miserably at it under two regimes so far. The other they've convinced themselves is Ivan Provorov. I would call that another failure.

Problem is 4-4 you expose one of Lindblom or Patrick, 7-3, you expose Myers or Sanheim. Ouch.

Add assets to get them to not pick one of them. Would you give up a 1st in the 20s and NAK for a 25 YO Lindblom for a contending team? I sure as shit would if he's healthy.