2020/21 Roster Thread IV: A New Hope

[AbsolutelyNot]

lol Fletcher is almost perfect too

only one head-scratcher

he had no choice

it's Hextalls fault for bad drafting

what a world we live in

Correct.

Correct.

Semi-correct.

Above average drafting, lacking true star power

 

[Striiker]

 

[AbsolutelyNot]

Problem is 4-4 you expose one of Lindblom or Patrick, 7-3, you expose Myers or Sanheim. Ouch.
And the cap hit from COVID made it difficult to package JVR or Voracek in a trade.

Given this team has a wide open window, didn't make sense to roll the dice in a season when anything bad can happen.

Next year, after the ED, it makes more sense, package say Millman, a 1st and say Allison for a top D-man in his 20s, or depending who they lose in the ED (a big salary?) gamble on a free agent.

What planet are you living on where another team is going to give you a top Dman in his 20’s, for a package of a 1st round pick, Allison, and Millman? Lmao. Nobody wants this mid-level Hextall slop.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

"HE CAME IN LIKE A WRECKKKKKKKKKKING BALLLLLLLLLLLLLL
I NEVER SOMETHING SOMETHING SOMETHING
ALL HE WANTED WAS TO BREAKKKKKKKKKK SOME BALLSSSSSSSS
ALL I WANTED WAS SOME ... DRA-HA-HAFTING!"

 

[Curufinwe]

With what cap space? The Gus signing was probably Fletcher’s first and only real head-scratching move. Hagg is going nowhere, he’s cheap labor for a serviceable 6/7 Dman, and he was kind of backed into a corner with Braun due to the sudden Niskanen retirement. The bigger issue, when it comes to the defense, is the lack of high risk-high reward drafting during the Hextall era. This team has far too many safe picks for guys that can be classified as “good, solid NHLers”, and not nearly enough home runs. That’s ultimately what seperates them from their defense as is, vs that of a team like Tampa.

Tampa has a horrible record drafting dmen outside of the obvious choice of Hedman.

 

[Striiker]

He was clearly their 6th defenseman by ice time. Between Hägg and Bogosian, I’d easily choose the latter. Hägg’s not a serviceable defender in any role

Of 219 defensemen with 350+ min last year...

CF%rel
Bogosian: 133 of 219
Hagg: 219 of 219

xGF%rel
Bogosian: 201 of 219
Hagg: 215 of 219

HDCF%rel
Bogosian: 106 of 219
Hagg: 202 of 219

PDO
Bogosian: 134 of 219
Hagg: 1 of 219

It's good to remind people every once in a while that Hagg has an argument for worst D in the entire league. Especially when these stats are including the time he was getting hard carried by his second most common partner and they're significantly worse when away from him.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The Flyers are in deep shit with this D corps. It's clear that the trade market has been essentially stymied by the flat cap. Add that to the dearth of high-quality defensemen in the league and the additional need for defense depth during this condensed season, and I simply don't see how they're going to be able to trade for the type of Niskanen-level defender they need.

As it is, that trade was an anomaly -- you're almost never able to acquire a player of Niskanen's caliber for a 3rd-pairing guy like Gudas -- and only possible because of a different cap situation. I could perhaps see them trading Sanheim for a different style of top 4 defenseman, like a RH shot to play with Provorov, in the old "hockey trade" parlance, but that's about it.

 

[FLYguy3911]

We don't have 8 Provorov's but we can sure grind the piss out of the boys in practice to win more puck battles.

Pucks in deep. Pucks on net. Pigeons.

 

[ajgoal]

You're going to lose something good in the ED no matter what you do. You can only lose one player, so we're just talking about moving a single slider here. To me, your aggressiveness should be determined by whether you think you can be a contender. You don't punt those years by counting on Braun, Hagg, and Gustafsson all at once. Too hard to come by.

If it meant adding a quality Defenseman you could play for more than a year or two at a reasonable cost, I'd be more than happy to throw out an expansion list with all of Gostisbehere, JVR, Voracek, and NAK on it. There are plenty of other options on the roster that wouldn't bother me either. I'm going to keep all but one of them.

Exactly. Yes, you add a good player to the list of players you might lose, but you also add one to the list of players you will keep. I'd rather come out of the expansion draft with more good players than fewer.

 

[Tripod]

The Flyers are in deep shit with this D corps. It's clear that the trade market has been essentially stymied by the flat cap. Add that to the dearth of high-quality defensemen in the league and the additional need for defense depth during this condensed season, and I simply don't see how they're going to be able to trade for the type of Niskanen-level defender they need.

As it is, that trade was an anomaly -- you're almost never able to acquire a player of Niskanen's caliber for a 3rd-pairing guy like Gudas -- and only possible because of a different cap situation. I could perhaps see them trading Sanheim for a different style of top 4 defenseman, like a RH shot to play with Provorov, in the old "hockey trade" parlance, but that's about it.

You were praising Gus pre-season

 

[deadhead]

Add assets to get them to not pick one of them. Would you give up a 1st in the 20s and NAK for a 25 YO Lindblom for a contending team? I sure as shit would if he's healthy.

Those deals did not turn out well for the teams that made them with Vegas.

Sometimes patience is a virtue, Flyers should make the playoffs, and by May could have some additional options.
When does college hockey end this year? I think York could probably step in on a limited basis right out of college. Even better if he had a month in the AHL then joined the Flyers. Wylie and Hogberg will have half an AHL season under their belts.

I'd rather take that 1st, NAK and another asset and get a cornerstone player after the ED than overpay for a decent player this season (the tight cap would put the Flyers in a bad bargaining position this year, like how we got Farabee by taking on Lehtera to make the Schenn deal work for the Blues).

FA options:

Brodie 4yr, $20M
Tanev 4yr, $18M
Shattenkirk 3yr, $11.5M

Barrie 1 yr, $3.75M [his career is as spotty as Gus, some awful seasons, best year 2018-19]
Gudas 3yr, $7.5M (only 2 games, but 14:55)
Borowiecki 2yr, $4M
Schultz 2yr, $8M

Hamonic, 1yr, $1.25M
Ceci, 1yr, $1.25M
Bogosian 1yr, $1M
Forbort 1yr, $1M
Kulivkov 1yr, 1.25M
Greene, 1yr $700K
Chara, 1yr $800K

 

[AbsolutelyNot]

We don't have 8 Provorov's but we can sure grind the piss out of the boys in practice to win more puck battles.

Pucks in deep. Pucks on net. Pigeons.

Yes, winning puck battles is bad! Better to just have guys utilize that Crosby-esque level of skill to deke in and out of hits along the boards. Very realistic!

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You were praising Gus pre-season

What exactly did I say?

 

[Striiker]

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Those deals did not turn out well for the teams that made them with Vegas.

Because their talent evaluations were terrible, not because the idea is fundamentally wrong.

The bar for being worth an asset should absolutely be high, don't get me wrong. I'm not paying someone to leave me NAK.

 

[deadhead]

On one year deals, it was Gus or Barrie, and I don't think Barrie had any interest in the Flyers.

Outside of the three guys who got multi-year deals (not sure if Brodie and Tanev are ED protected, NTC), I'd take Braun over the rest. Gudas is slowing down, Harmonic is a shell, Schultz is broken down.

Hagg has two pluses over most of the bottom feeders, he's durable and young. Otherwise they all suck.

Who was available in trade?

 

[Tripod]

What exactly did I say?

You had him pegged for the top pair

His play on defense is what you actually think Ghost has been like the last few years.

But I should not have responded to you as I know how these discussions go and I don't want to waste my day. Have a good one.

 

[DancingPanther]

I miss Frost already

 

[Ghosts Beer]

You had him pegged for the top pair

His play on defense is what you actually think Ghost has been like the last few years.

I said he was the best of their options in a bad situation on a 1 year $3M deal. I said I thought his skillset would at least hopefully help the PP, where he has better vision than the other defensemen on the team. I said I'd give him first crack at being paired with Provorov; I wasn't anointing him as an ideal #2 or anything remotely close to that. Pretty damn faint "praise."

 

[deadhead]

I miss Couts and Myers, while Frost showed improvement, once Couts returns, shrug shoulders. Get healthy for the playoffs for depth, then work hard in the offseason to replace Laughton in 2021-22. If Laczynski gets healthy and has a couple good months in the AHL not sure Frost will come back at all this season.

 

[DancingPanther]

Why are you f***ing like this all the f***ing time. All I say is I miss Frost, and you immediately argue. You're f***ing relentless

 

[deadhead]

Gus was a gamble like Barrie, offensive skills with dreadful defense most seasons, but both showed that the right coach can get them to play defense, but it doesn't come naturally.

Ghost is simply a matter of finding out whether he can regain his mojo, his defense has always been solid but limited, that is, he's fine except in situations like protecting a lead late in the game where he can be forechecked off the puck when teams take chances in our D-zone.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Because their talent evaluations were terrible, not because the idea is fundamentally wrong.

The bar for being worth an asset should absolutely be high, don't get me wrong. I'm not paying someone to leave me NAK.

Perfect scenario would be paying Seattle to take JVR. Seems like a big win for them and us (if it can work that way).

 

[JojoTheWhale]

On one year deals, it was Gus or Barrie, and I don't think Barrie had any interest in the Flyers.

Who was available in trade?

Yeah, Barrie took a one year deal to cash in with absurd PP talent. That was the best possible move he could have made once a contract didn't materialize. No chance he prefers it here for 1 year.

You know my trade preference was MacKenzie Weegar. There were other too, but he was head and shoulders above the field. It's important to note that we don't know everyone who was available, so the conversation is unwieldy.

 

[Tripod]

Ghost is simply a matter of finding out whether he can regain his mojo, his defense has always been solid but limited, that is, he's fine except in situations like protecting a lead late in the game where he can be forechecked off the puck when teams take chances in our D-zone.