Speculation: 2020-21 News/Rumors/Roster Thread

[Herby]

Turcotte's freshman numbers over an 82-game schedule would translate to 73.5 points. Better get rid of him for a shiny new toy.

Respect the hell out of your opinion, but have to disagree, he was a huge disappointment last year, both ends of the ice. He only had a 1+8 line in in 21 Big Ten games, that is disgusting for a Top 5 pick.

Not writing him off after a disappointing D+1 season, plenty of others have bounced back, certainly don't want to see him traded for a lesser D prospect. But he had a very disappointing season relative to what other higher end prospects have done in that conference. I think a Dylan Larkin type of freshman season (and similar NHL career) was fair to expect when the Kings took him with the #5 pick. I think it's fair to say he's way behind where Larkin was after D+1 season.

 

[Statto]

Respect the hell out of your opinion, but have to disagree, he was a huge disappointment last year, both ends of the ice. He only had a 1+8 line in in 21 Big Ten games.

Not writing him off after a disappointing D+1 season, plenty of others have bounced back, certainly don't want to see him traded for a lesser D prospect. But he had a very disappointing season relative to what other higher end prospects have done in that conference. I think a Dylan Larkin type of freshman season (and similar NHL career) was fair to expect when the Kings took him with the #5 pick. I think it's fair to say he's way behind where Larkin was after D+1 season.

I don’t think it was a great year but calling it a ‘huge’ disappointment is only remotely accurate if you just look at the top level numbers. You are not looking at context. He had an injury, was used badly and the team as a whole fell way short. All of those thing affect his numbers but I see a player that battled through, learned plenty and finished strongly. Seeing him learn to deal with a bit of adversity is good to see and he’s obviously realised he needed to work on his strength and has done so. He’s displaying the attributes and character we expected and I’m more than happy to see where it takes him.

 

[Herby]

I don’t think it was a great year but calling it a ‘huge’ disappointment is only remotely accurate if you just look at the top level numbers. You are not looking at context. He had an injury, was used badly and the team as a whole fell way short. All of those thing affect his numbers but I see a player that battled through, learned plenty and finished strongly. Seeing him learn to deal with a bit of adversity is good to see and he’s obviously realised he needed to work on his strength and has done so. He’s displaying the attributes and character we expected and I’m more than happy to see where it takes him.

What are top level numbers? Goals, Assists and Points? The same numbers we use to (IMO correctly) sing the praises of Kaliyev?, seems to be a bit of a double standard. Turcotte struggled offensively, especially against the best teams he faced on their schedule and struggled in the defensive zone (although this was true of the whole team)

If this were like the old days and NCAA players weren't drafted until after their freshman seasons where do you think he goes in this years draft? I think it's very likely a decent ways down from where he went last year, so that is why I use "Huge Disappointment" to describe his season. If someone is drafted Top 5 and a year later they are going in the second half of round 1 I would call it a huge disappointment, but I guess we can agree to disagree.

 

[Docgonzo]

Does it make people a little nervous that fans of previous teams don’t have very pleasant things to say about Edmundson? I don’t know if we should be spending cap or years on him.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

Does it make people a little nervous that fans of previous teams don’t have very pleasant things to say about Edmundson? I don’t know if we should be spending cap or years on him.

Nope. But I’ve had just just the opposite experience. Good buddy of mine is a Blues diehard with nothing but positives to say about him as a solid 3rd pairing dman.

 

[Token]

Does it make people a little nervous that fans of previous teams don’t have very pleasant things to say about Edmundson? I don’t know if we should be spending cap or years on him.

Don’t understand why some here like him.

Not as good as Rhegere was, marginally better than Greene was, slower than molasses, not much of an upgrade over MacDerminator.

Look at how many times he was the 7th D on the bench in the playoffs...

We can do way better in the UFA/Trade market.

 

[BigKing]

What are top level numbers? Goals, Assists and Points? The same numbers we use to (IMO correctly) sing the praises of Kaliyev?, seems to be a bit of a double standard. Turcotte struggled offensively, especially against the best teams he faced on their schedule and struggled in the defensive zone (although this was true of the whole team)

If this were like the old days and NCAA players weren't drafted until after their freshman seasons where do you think he goes in this years draft? I think it's very likely a decent ways down from where he went last year, so that is why I use "Huge Disappointment" to describe his season. If someone is drafted Top 5 and a year later they are going in the second half of round 1 I would call it a huge disappointment, but I guess we can agree to disagree.

I agree with you. Pretty much every prospect gets hyped to some level about how they are going to make it and generally don't get buried until it is blatantly obvious that it isn't going to work. The more important the prospect, the more excuses will be made for a poor season. Doesn't mean that some of the excuses aren't valid but it also doesn't mean it wasn't a poor season.

We love Kaliyev and Fagemo's WJC but brush aside Turcotte's. The Kings first four picks from 2019 all met or exceeded expectations except for Turcotte: that's a fact. It doesn't mean he's a bust but I just don't like how everyone feels better about the other three guys because they kept developing but aren't worried about Turcotte seemingly because he is supposed to be our best prospect and was taken 5th overall.

Hickey was routinely in the Kings Top 5 prospect list. Yes, he was a reach and Turcotte wasn't but guys get a bump in their rankings/expectations simply based on where they were drafted even if there are red flags afterwards. There are some valid excuses for Turcotte's season but it should be somewhat concerning to all of us: he's a very important piece to the puzzle be it in a Kings sweater or as a trade asset ala Schenn.

 

[Token]

I agree with you. Pretty much every prospect gets hyped to some level about how they are going to make it and generally don't get buried until it is blatantly obvious that it isn't going to work. The more important the prospect, the more excuses will be made for a poor season. Doesn't mean that some of the excuses aren't valid but it also doesn't mean it wasn't a poor season.

We love Kaliyev and Fagemo's WJC but brush aside Turcotte's. The Kings first four picks from 2019 all met or exceeded expectations except for Turcotte: that's a fact. It doesn't mean he's a bust but I just don't like how everyone feels better about the other three guys because they kept developing but aren't worried about Turcotte seemingly because he is supposed to be our best prospect and was taken 5th overall.

Hickey was routinely in the Kings Top 5 prospect list. Yes, he was a reach and Turcotte wasn't but guys get a bump in their rankings/expectations simply based on where they were drafted even if there are red flags afterwards. There are some valid excuses for Turcotte's season but it should be somewhat concerning to all of us: he's a very important piece to the puzzle be it in a Kings sweater or as a trade asset ala Schenn.

That’s a swell point about expectations being tied to the draft spot.

We are fans. We want our whole top-6 to be point-per-game superstars. We want every 1st round pick to be perennially in the hunt for the Heart and Rocket.

But when you look at the guys feeding their kids cereal from the Stanley Cup each year ... it’s the 70-point 1C that plays that 200-foot game

O’Reilly, Backstrom, Toewes, Kopi ... for the most part steady 70-point guys with flashes of more every now and again.

Pens are the only oddity by virtue of winning the lottery of the century and getting a true generational center in Crosby.

So as a fan, I want Turcotte to be a 80-90 point guy cuz I’m a fan dammit.

But then I stop myself and realize that a Turcotte that brings a reliable 50-70 points over a decade will give us a better chance at a parade. Screw the draft spot, we need that play-driving center that carries the team forward, not some stat sheet.

 

[BigKing]

That’s a swell point about expectations being tied to the draft spot.

We are fans. We want our whole top-6 to be point-per-game superstars. We want every 1st round pick to be perennially in the hunt for the Heart and Rocket.

But when you look at the guys feeding their kids cereal from the Stanley Cup each year ... it’s the 70-point 1C that plays that 200-foot game

O’Reilly, Backstrom, Toewes, Kopi ... for the most part steady 70-point guys with flashes of more every now and again.

Pens are the only oddity by virtue of winning the lottery of the century and getting a true generational center in Crosby.

So as a fan, I want Turcotte to be a 80-90 point guy cuz I’m a fan dammit.

But then I stop myself and realize that a Turcotte that brings a reliable 50-70 points over a decade will give us a better chance at a parade. Screw the draft spot, we need that play-driving center that carries the team forward, not some stat sheet.

Will he be a reliable 50-70 point, play-driving center though? That's the concern. Nobody expected 80-90 points when he was drafted but there are now genuine concerns in the scouting community that he is a 1C at the NHL level. He was drafted to be a 1C so this is my point: his season was underwhelming to the point that there is now reasonable doubt that he will be what he was projected to be when he was drafted.

That said, it is still early and this could all look stupid after his first season in Ontario. It's just silly to be j/o'ing over Fagemo, Vilardi et al because they had good seasons but then not worry at all about Turcotte when he had a poor season. Maybe it isn't that there isn't some worry but it is more the defensiveness that it wasn't a bad season or, at least, less-than-expected. The consensus should be we didn't get from him what we expected, that sucks, but we are still hopeful that it isn't a sign of things to come. It seems disingenuous to be high on every prospect that had a good season but then not be concerned about Turcotte.

 

[regulate]

 

[tbrown33]

#LeafsTemporarily

 

[Stimpythecat]

I only want Edmundson for a 2 year deal at a reasonable cap hit. That second year is for the expansion draft. The first year is because I don't expect all three of Clague, Anderson, and Björnfot to stick. I don't expect Edmunson to be a king for that second year. I don't want to have to play MacDermid for 25 games in a shortened season.

I'm fine with Hutton back on a 2 year deal instead.

 

[Stimpythecat]

I saw leaf fans saying to sign Clifford for a min. contract. I think they saw his leaf cap hit but didn't realize that was his cap hit for them after the kings picked up 50%.

No way was he going to take a 50+% reduction in salary to be a leaf.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

 

[kingsholygrail]

Do we try to grab Clifford back?

 

[Lt Dan]

Do we try to grab Clifford back?

We have too many bottom sixers but we also we need vets and positive influence guys.

 

[kilowatt]

We have too many bottom sixers but we also we need vets and positive influence guys.

Clifford - Lizotte - Lewis fourth line, here we come.

 

[ibleedkings]

Clifford - Lizotte - Lewis fourth line, here we come.

Barf

 

[Lt Dan]

Clifford - Lizotte - Lewis fourth line, here we come.

Sounds good! Minus Lewis. The future is now and I don't think he is a part of it on the ice

These were the lines from the GDT in the last game against Ottawa

Porkins is gone
Lewis is either going elsewhere or headed to player development
I don't see a reason for Moore to be on the team
and hopefully Amadio is either the 13th forward or gets bit by a radioactive spider before next season

 

[kilowatt]

Sounds good! Minus Lewis. The future is now and I don't think he is a part of it on the ice

These were the lines from the GDT in the last game against Ottawa

View attachment 366699

Porkins is gone
Lewis is either going elsewhere or headed to player development
I don't see a reason for Moore to be on the team
and hopefully Amadio is either the 13th forward or gets bit by a radioactive spider before next season

Iafallo - Kopitar - Brown
Kempe - Vilardi - Frk
Wagner - Lizotte - Carter

We basically don’t have a fourth (or third I guess) line at the moment.

 

[ibleedkings]

Sounds good! Minus Lewis. The future is now and I don't think he is a part of it on the ice

These were the lines from the GDT in the last game against Ottawa

View attachment 366699

Porkins is gone
Lewis is either going elsewhere or headed to player development
I don't see a reason for Moore to be on the team
and hopefully Amadio is either the 13th forward or gets bit by a radioactive spider before next season

I take Moore over Lewis or Clifford any day.

 

[Herby]

That’s a swell point about expectations being tied to the draft spot.

We are fans. We want our whole top-6 to be point-per-game superstars. We want every 1st round pick to be perennially in the hunt for the Heart and Rocket.

But when you look at the guys feeding their kids cereal from the Stanley Cup each year ... it’s the 70-point 1C that plays that 200-foot game

O’Reilly, Backstrom, Toewes, Kopi ... for the most part steady 70-point guys with flashes of more every now and again.

Pens are the only oddity by virtue of winning the lottery of the century and getting a true generational center in Crosby.

So as a fan, I want Turcotte to be a 80-90 point guy cuz I’m a fan dammit.

But then I stop myself and realize that a Turcotte that brings a reliable 50-70 points over a decade will give us a better chance at a parade. Screw the draft spot, we need that play-driving center that carries the team forward, not some stat sheet.

You talk about a 200 foot game, it's like you are conveniently forgetting that he was overpowered defensively last season in the Big Ten but are just confidently comparing him to multiple Selke winners.

And if you think taking a 50-70 point center with the #5 pick gives the team a better chance than an 80-90 point center with the same pick, I just don't know what to say, in 20+ years posting on this board that is one of the strangest takes I've ever heard.

 

[Herby]

I agree with you. Pretty much every prospect gets hyped to some level about how they are going to make it and generally don't get buried until it is blatantly obvious that it isn't going to work. The more important the prospect, the more excuses will be made for a poor season. Doesn't mean that some of the excuses aren't valid but it also doesn't mean it wasn't a poor season.

We love Kaliyev and Fagemo's WJC but brush aside Turcotte's. The Kings first four picks from 2019 all met or exceeded expectations except for Turcotte: that's a fact. It doesn't mean he's a bust but I just don't like how everyone feels better about the other three guys because they kept developing but aren't worried about Turcotte seemingly because he is supposed to be our best prospect and was taken 5th overall.

Hickey was routinely in the Kings Top 5 prospect list. Yes, he was a reach and Turcotte wasn't but guys get a bump in their rankings/expectations simply based on where they were drafted even if there are red flags afterwards. There are some valid excuses for Turcotte's season but it should be somewhat concerning to all of us: he's a very important piece to the puzzle be it in a Kings sweater or as a trade asset ala Schenn.

We saw this with Teubert on this board. In June 2008 Teubert was the next Scott Stevens, then in April 2009 when he was sent to the ECHL he was the next Adam Foote, then April 2010 when he was again sent to the ECHL it was "I have hope he can still be a Matt Greene or OD" . Just a bit of a tough pill to swallow when a guy is being compared one year to a prime Mike Richards or Jonathan Toews then the next year it's, "He will be a good 2nd line center" or "Maybe we can move him to wing"

I'm not writing him off and am not ready to label him a Teubert (who was officially a bust the second he stepped foot on ECHL ice), just dealing with facts, for a Top 5 pick to struggle that much in conference play + be invisible in the WJC is a red flag. I stand by my statement that he would be drafted significantly lower if he were eligible this year.

 

[redcard]

I don't see the harm in bringing Clifford back on a 1 year deal. Can always flip him again if we find ourselves needing the roster spot.

That being said I'm sure there's a competitive team out there willing to give him a 2 year deal and a better chance at another cup if he wants it.

 

[BigKing]

If they are deciding between Lewis/Clifford as a 4th line/scratch vet, give me Clifford all day.

The lineup posted earlier can add Carter for Porky. So now you've got that Lewis position available plus press box guys. If MacD isn't in, this team is maybe the softest in the league. Given the glowing praise we've heard that Management has for Clifford--and the fact he helps the softness issue--I can easily see them bringing him back.