Speculation: 2020-21 News/Rumors/Roster Thread Part IV

[SFKingshomer]

Sabres need to keep Hall for his draft lottery skills.

 

[Lt Dan]

The Kings have trouble signing UFAs as it is. No one of Kopitar's level would be coming to LA as a UFA. We have to overpay or add extra year(s) like with Mitchell. And trading for potential is no certain thing. Kopitar is the certain production.

This x 81

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

Like to see the Los Angeles Kings make a play for Dominik Kubalik! The player is a Star and would look fantastic on Kopi's RWing/LWing! And if we can't trade for him we Offer Sheet him!

 

[Ray Martyniuk]

thanks! Fingers cross. I would do Turcotte/Byfield, 2021 1st, and Akil Thomas.

No thanks too steep

 

[Schmooley]

Saw Jake Gardiner is on waivers. Would be a good pickup for the Kings. Not sure they are ready to scratch Maatta the rest of the year though.

 

[KINGS17]

Because people see the Kings roster and the huge void of talent in the age group that Eichel is at plus huge contracts to 30+ players, if the Kings are going to try and win another cup with Doughty and Kopitar it makes sense, especially since Byfield and Turcotte don't seem to be beating down the doors to being impact players at the NHL level anytime soon.

Blake can deny it all he wants but its something that he has to address, whether it is Eichel or someone else. If Byfield and Turcotte are 2 years away from being impact players that leaves Kopitar at 35/36 and Doughty at 33/34.

Its not Blake's fault because he inherited a team with almost nothing in the farm system due to bad trades, and has done a nice job rebuilding it, but the elephant in the room in this rebuild is the age of DD and AK. Trading Byfield and some other assets for Eichel addresses that in a pretty big way, plus you get a decade of a star 1C. It may not happen this season, but in the offseason I think it'll be a different story (if Buffalo chooses to go that route).

Hmm, I am surprised no one has seen this before.

 

[Herby]

Hmm, I am surprised no one has seen this before.

I am a little surprised how much the "stay the course" fail to realize it or acknowledge it.

They say to be patient with a guy like Byfield and that he may be years away, well how does that help if the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup. So Byfield (hopefully) becomes an impact player in 2023 or 2024, when Kopitar is the same age as Carter and Getzlaf are now? Who are the really good impact veteran players on the team? Do we expect AK to be Patrice Bergeron and be ageless? I mean I guess it's possible but if you look at the 03 draft he is the only one left who is still a really good player in the league, seems a bit risky to expect Kopitar to defy father time. And Kopi would be Bergeron's age just as QB starts to be a star, what about beyond that?

 

[KINGS17]

I am a little surprised how much the "stay the course" fail to realize it or acknowledge it.

They say to be patient with a guy like Byfield and that he may be years away, well how does that help if the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup. So Byfield (hopefully) becomes an impact player in 2023 or 2024, when Kopitar is the same age as Carter and Getzlaf are now? Who are the really good impact veteran players on the team? Do we expect AK to be Patrice Bergeron and be ageless? I mean I guess it's possible but if you look at the 03 draft he is the only one left who is still a really good player in the league, seems a bit risky to expect Kopitar to defy father time. And Kopi would be Bergeron's age just as QB starts to be a star, what about beyond that?

I think the Kings should stay the course, and I don't think Kopitar will be around to see the Kings become contenders again, and Doughty is a long shot in my mind to see it.

I think it is going to take just a bit longer than three more seasons after this one.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Kopitar is the surest player to get in the Hall on the Kings.

I think by virtue of being the first Slovenian player in the league he will get in, yes.

Even if he wasn’t, though, he does have a strong case. He’s basically Diet Mats Sundin, if not outright Mats Sundin Jr, and Mats got in during his first year of eligibility, I think.

Edit: also obligatory the NHL Hall of Fame is probably the most difficult HoF to get into just by how many players make important contributions to a team.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I am a little surprised how much the "stay the course" fail to realize it or acknowledge it.

They say to be patient with a guy like Byfield and that he may be years away, well how does that help if the ultimate goal is to win the Stanley Cup. So Byfield (hopefully) becomes an impact player in 2023 or 2024, when Kopitar is the same age as Carter and Getzlaf are now? Who are the really good impact veteran players on the team? Do we expect AK to be Patrice Bergeron and be ageless? I mean I guess it's possible but if you look at the 03 draft he is the only one left who is still a really good player in the league, seems a bit risky to expect Kopitar to defy father time. And Kopi would be Bergeron's age just as QB starts to be a star, what about beyond that?

If Byfield is an impact player in 2024, I don't expect Anze Kopitar to be today's Anze, but I also don't expect him to fall completely off the map. If none of Byfield, Turcotte, Vilardi take the reins, then the problem isn't Anze's age. And if none of the infinity 2nd tier prospects snag the bottom six C jobs, that's not Anze's fault, either.

I don't see any way he can't be Bergeron, and by the way, Re: Bergeron--they're surrounding him with better, younger players, no? As well as giving him fewer minutes and much softer deployment.

I know I'm the one that always says hope isn't a strategy, but I think the 'risk' of Anze's age is being oversold a little. I'm with K17 that I'm more worried about Drew's effect and the defense.

 

[johnjm22]

And Kopi would be Bergeron's age just as QB starts to be a star, what about beyond that?

Kopitar only has 3 years left on his contract. By the time QB is ready to be a star, Kopitar's contract will be done.

If AK is still a serviceable player you can re-sign him to 1 or 2 year deal to be the 3rd line center. If not, he will retire or walk.

What's the problem? If anything it seems like the ideal situation.

 

[Sparky206]

If you could have hypothetically in hindsight signed anybody out of the 06 draft class to a 20 year contract your going Crosby and then Kopitar. He's not a savage regression type player like Skinner or Mike Richards, we'll get every last ounce of value out of that $10mil a year contract and theres no combination of available players at the time he signed that would have provided more value.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The issue isn’t with keeping Kopitar alone, it’s hanging onto too many of the 2012/14 cup vets too long. They got paid and this team has proceeded to miss the playoffs the majority of the time.

They were paid big money to stay contenders, not put up good individual seasons once every 2-3 years.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The issue isn’t with keeping Kopitar alone, it’s hanging onto too many of the 2012/14 cup vets too long. They got paid and this team has proceeded to miss the playoffs the majority of the time.

They were paid big money to stay contenders, not put up good individual seasons once every 2-3 years.

If the guy has an MVP caliber year and it takes a Norris caliber year from the #1 dman and a hell of a year by the goalie to scrape into the playoffs the problem isn't your Hart-trophy caliber player.

 

[johnjm22]

Moving forward, the thing to be worried about isn't Kopitar/Brown/Carter/Quick/Doughty. With the exception of Doughty all their contracts are ending soon.

The concern is Byfield/Turcotte/Vilardi/Kaliyev/Bjornfot/Kupari/Madden ect. Will a few of these guys actually turn out to be GREAT players? Because that's what you need to contend for a SC. If a couple of our really highly prospects turn out to be just "okay" or "pretty good", then our lauded prospect won't end up mattering all that much.

 

[DoktorJeep]

If the guy has an MVP caliber year and it takes a Norris caliber year from the #1 dman and a hell of a year by the goalie to scrape into the playoffs the problem isn't your Hart-trophy caliber player.

No the problem is poor overall depth, which the overpaid players exacerbate with a lack of difference making production and the constraints on making improvements to the roster.

 

[KINGS17]

Moving forward, the thing to be worried about isn't Kopitar/Brown/Carter/Quick/Doughty. With the exception of Doughty all their contracts are ending soon.

The concern is Byfield/Turcotte/Vilardi/Kaliyev/Bjornfot/Kupari/Madden ect. Will a few of these guys actually turn out to be GREAT players? Because that's what you need to contend for a SC. If a couple of our really highly prospects turn out to be just "okay" or "pretty good", then our lauded prospect won't end up mattering all that much.

I give it less than 10% chance in it happening in the next three years.

 

[driller1]

No the problem is poor overall depth, which the overpaid players exacerbate with a lack of difference making production and the constraints on making improvements to the roster.

I would argue that Kopi, brown, and doughty are definitely earning their keep. It’s not as important with quick since we have cal.

However, I don’t believe they are constraining anything in terms of salary cap. We have salary cap flexibility for days and even more when our dead cap space comes off after this year.

 

[KINGS17]

No the problem is poor overall depth, which the overpaid players exacerbate with a lack of difference making production and the constraints on making improvements to the roster.

You better be careful with this kind of talk. Too much truth and logic behind it.

 

[bland]

Moving forward, the thing to be worried about isn't Kopitar/Brown/Carter/Quick/Doughty. With the exception of Doughty all their contracts are ending soon.

The concern is Byfield/Turcotte/Vilardi/Kaliyev/Bjornfot/Kupari/Madden ect. Will a few of these guys actually turn out to be GREAT players? Because that's what you need to contend for a SC. If a couple of our really highly prospects turn out to be just "okay" or "pretty good", then our lauded prospect won't end up mattering all that much.

Which is exactly why it is too early to trade any of them. You simply don't know what you have yet.

And it just boils down to one thing, the Kings best chance of success isn't by augmenting the old core, its developing the prospects earned through struggling while failing to succeed with that core.

Its not a sure thing at all, but its the most manageable path. Brown, Quick and Carter most definitely won't be part of that success, but Doughty and Kopitar could be, in supporting roles.

Trading for Eichel moves both needles backwards. It chases success that can't be had now, and reduces the talent pool of unknown prospects by at least three. It boosts the interim in-between the two eras so to speak, but that cannot be Blake's concern unless he badly misreads the terrain.

 

[King'sPawn]

The issue isn’t with keeping Kopitar alone, it’s hanging onto too many of the 2012/14 cup vets too long. They got paid and this team has proceeded to miss the playoffs the majority of the time.

They were paid big money to stay contenders, not put up good individual seasons once every 2-3 years.

Kopitar
Carter
Quick
Doughty
Brown

Is too many of the cup winning vets?

Plus, let's not rewrite history. The arguments have always been about trading vets of value to get younger and push for a cup sooner.

The typical critics:
- has never wanted the Kings to keep Kopitar after his latest contract. The "suggested route" wanted the Kings to offer him 5 years max and trade him if he balked
- never wanted to trade Doughty because "he was too good" and "worth his contract"
- always wanted to trade Carter as soon as it was in question the Kings were missing the playoffs
- was ambivalent of Brown because he wouldn't return a shiny prospect, so might as well keep him
- understand goalies have shit for trade value, so no sense trading Quick. And he'll break down soon anyway.

It's never been about getting too many vets. It's about not trading every vet with value and a pulse to get prospects sooner, and replacing the vets with unqualified scrubs in the process.

 

[KINGS17]

I would argue that Kopi, brown, and doughty are definitely earning their keep. It’s not as important with quick since we have cal.

However, I don’t believe they are constraining anything in terms of salary cap. We have salary cap flexibility for days and even more when our dead cap space comes off after this year.

So, which is it? Are the Kings paying Kopitar and Doughty to contend for championships, or to mentor prospects? In my mind it was made quite clear they were given these contracts to continue to contend for Stanley Cups.

 

[DoktorJeep]

You better be careful with this kind of talk. Too much truth and logic behind it.

It’s fine, I’m bullish on the Kings overall and I love watching our stars put up great performances. I just expect this franchise to be and act like winners. That’s what the money’s for, not to stroke cheap sentiments. We pay top dollar to go to Staples and have more options for entertainment than anywhere on the planet. Decades of fan apathy and mismanagement had made LA Kings hockey a joke in the NHL. I don’t want to go back, even if that means getting rid of players I love.

 

[KINGS17]

It’s fine, I’m bullish on the Kings overall and I love watching our stars put up great performances. I just expect this franchise to be and act like winners. That’s what the money’s for, not to stroke cheap sentiments. We pay top dollar to go to Staples and have more options for entertainment than anywhere on the planet. Decades of fan apathy and mismanagement had made LA Kings hockey a joke in the NHL. I don’t want to go back, even if that means getting rid of players I love.

You mean you can still like Kopitar and Doughty, and also think hanging onto them might not be the best idea.

BTW, I think it's too late for Kopitar and especially Carter to be going anywhere. Supposedly, after signing Kopitar and the Kings deciding to keep him, trading Carter would have been like getting rid of every vet who has won a Stanley Cup with the Kings.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

No the problem is poor overall depth, which the overpaid players exacerbate with a lack of difference making production and the constraints on making improvements to the roster.

Even if they were overpaid--the Kings have, and have had, some of the most cap space in the league. This is the argument I've had for years with K17--none of those contracts have prevented the Kings from anything (except maybe tanking in full...which as we see with Buffalo and Edmonton...).

So, which is it? Are the Kings paying Kopitar and Doughty to contend for championships, or to mentor prospects? In my mind it was made quite clear they were given these contracts to continue to contend for Stanley Cups.

Why not both?

Whether you're competing, rebuilding, retooling on the fly, or whatever euphemism, I don't think you'll find many who will agree that multiple-championship winning vets are a detriment.