Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster Discussion Part II

[illegal_stick]

I know Dean was on the 2014 US Olympic selection committee, and he was one of the most vocal in criticizing guys who can score, like Phil Kessel and Bobby Ryan. Then he had full autonomy with the 2016 US World Cup team that got embarrassed and finished 7th out of 8 teams. Once again he left of Phil Kessel, but at least they had Justin Abdelkader!

That tournament is the one that really made me question his judgement in talent. He had a talent pool to pick the best players to represent the U.S. in tournaments, and he assembled a team that got shutout by a random mishmash of talent in Team Europe, and lost all three tournament games.

Two things for me: that tournament and the Gaborik contract. You trade for a guy, who is known as someone who is ALWAYS injured. He was no hot commodity. He kills it in the playoffs - great. Then offers him an insane contract, there was no way he was going to fulfill.

Also, I honestly think the one thing DL never learned was when to fire Daryl Sutter. I think this team would have more left in them if they would've kept the players he kept, but let go of the guy who had lost the room (including the fact he was locked out of it in 2015.) Sutter cost DL his job in SJ and I think he had a major hand in ending the cup window and eventually costing him the job again in LA.

 

[Vino]

I don’t have a complete picture with the current management group to answer your question because they needed to fix many issues, which didn’t start taking place until the rebuild. But thus far, they have significantly improved the two areas that Lombardi failed to address his last few years here, and that’s the cap space and prospect pool.

Lombardi/Kings were contender/contending 2010-2016, so in my mind it's unfair to say that Lombardi failed to address the cap space and prospect pool. As I wrote earlier "It's mission impossible to build a cup contender and keep your cap space or deep prospect pool same time." Lombardi's job was to win third Stanley Cup, not collect cap space or prospect pool. He failed to do it, so he was fired (rightfully so).

You do realize when the team is close to taking that next step to contend, those assets are used to acquire the likes of Richards and Carter, right? Because in 2017, Rob Blake didn’t have that luxury. Did you think the cap space and prospects were magically going to appear overnight?

I didn't say anything about Blake earlier. I don't like Blake because he thought that Kings were cup contenders 2017 (Kovalchuk signing, pure stupidity), his draft philosophy stinks and in my mind he is now making mistake, when he/Kings are trying to make playoffs (I didn't like Arvidsson trade at all).

It's too early, they should collect/draft more prospects (bigger dmen, grittier and meaner wingers) this and next summer. But NHL-hockey is also bisnes and they have to make some money. It's easier to sell a product, which is winning some games now, than a product, which is losing, but has a true potential to win Stanley Cup sometime in the future.

 

[BigBrown]

I'd take Lombardi back in a heartbeat. Not saying he didn't deserve to get canned at the time but I do have confidence in him being really smart, working really hard and most importantly, learning from his mistakes.

I can certainly understand those who want nothing to do with him, he had a couple of years towards the end that belong in the hall of fame of mismanagement.

 

[illegal_stick]

Lombardi/Kings were contender/contending 2010-2016, so in my mind it's unfair to say that Lombardi failed to address the cap space and prospect pool. As I wrote earlier "It's mission impossible to build a cup contender and keep your cap space or deep prospect pool same time." Lombardi's job was to win third Stanley Cup, not collect cap space or prospect pool. He failed to do it, so he was fired (rightfully so).



I didn't say anything about Blake earlier. I don't like Blake because he thought that Kings were cup contenders 2017 (Kovalchuk signing, pure stupidity), his draft philosophy stinks and in my mind he is now making mistake, when he/Kings are trying to make playoffs (I didn't like Arvidsson trade at all).

It's too early, they should collect/draft more prospects (bigger dmen, grittier and meaner wingers) this and next summer. But NHL-hockey is also bisnes and they have to make some money. It's easier to sell a product, which is winning some games now, than a product, which is losing, but has a true potential to win Stanley Cup sometime in the future.

Blake was WRONG to think they were contenders, but I can live with that mistake just as I lived with the mistakes of hiring Crawford, trading for Cloutier etc. DL made many mistakes on his way to making the right team. In terms of your issue with the Arviddson trade and wanting to collect more prospects, there's literally no more room for them. Blake needs bridge players to help bring in these prospects. In my mind, that's exactly what he's doing right now.

 

[Basilisk]

Who would you guys trade for Tarasenko?

Thanks!!!

 

[kinghock]

Who would you guys trade for Tarasenko?

Thanks!!!

I do not believe with his salary and health questions he attracted interest from LA.
If Kings really wanted him trade would be already completed with Saint Luis.

 

[kings11]

I do not believe with his salary and health questions he attracted interest from LA.
If Kings really wanted him trade would be already completed with Saint Luis.

That’s not true, the Kings should have lots of interest in him but why pay a tidy sum when the Blues had zero leverage. You could work out a deal with Seattle to get him cheaper or any other scorer that wasn’t protected.. JVR comes to mind, I would touch any TBL player yet as I think they need to desperately clear cap and if the Kraken select Cal Foote they will need to unload.. again, a team like the Mings has lots of leverage but Blake and the FO will do what’s best

 

[Basilisk]

.......a team like the Mings has lots of leverage.....

Now you've gone & done it. Now I have to start a Flash Gordon-themed NHL franchise!!!

 

[KINGS17]

Proof that Dean lost it is right there in the interview Bob Miller [coffee with Bob?] he did in 2015 or 16' . He was flat out denying the league was evolving right before his eyes, and that there were issues with Sutter and the players. We should've seen this coming when he built the 2014 Olympic team of all will and no skill.

You are talking about an interview in 2015. I am referring to a recent interview where Dean clearly recognizes he was mistaken in his approach after winning the second cup.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Two things for me: that tournament and the Gaborik contract. You trade for a guy, who is known as someone who is ALWAYS injured. He was no hot commodity. He kills it in the playoffs - great. Then offers him an insane contract, there was no way he was going to fulfill.

Also, I honestly think the one thing DL never learned was when to fire Daryl Sutter. I think this team would have more left in them if they would've kept the players he kept, but let go of the guy who had lost the room (including the fact he was locked out of it in 2015.) Sutter cost DL his job in SJ and I think he had a major hand in ending the cup window and eventually costing him the job again in LA.

Sutter did his job and didn’t cost DL his job.

It was the core that did Lombardi in, they cycle through coaches a lot. They are ready to throw Toddfather off the boat now too.

 

[kings11]

Now you've gone & done it. Now I have to start a Flash Gordon-themed NHL franchise!!!

I swear, one day soon I’m going to chuck my iphone into the freeway! Stupid autocorrect

 

[kings11]

Sutter did his job and didn’t cost DL his job.

It was the core that did Lombardi in, they cycle through coaches a lot. They are ready to throw Toddfather off the boat now too.

Somewhat correct..
Darryl’s style has an expiration date and he went stale. As for DL, his inability to adapt fast enough to a changing league and an outdated draft philosophy hurt him badly. With that said, both brought glory to LA and I wouldn’t trade those memories for anything and would pay the same price.
The core has a problem and who exactly is the lynchpin is anyone’s guess but at this point we need results. This needs to be Brown’s last year as a Kings player, the kids need to be weeded out from star, depth and trade bait and TMac needs to do a better job of utilizing the roster.

 

[BigKing]

The same guy who made it happen also make it disappear as fast as he won the cups. 2 cups in 3 years, one playoff win in 3 years after and counting...

I wish any other Kings GM got the chance to make it disappear too so we wouldn't have had to wait so long.

Remember when Kevin Lowe responded to critics by saying he’s won Stanley Cups before and he knows how to win when he was Oilers GM? This is what that sounds like.

Is anybody critiquing the Cup wins? Are Pens fans yearning for Shero or Rutherford to return? Are Hawks fans also clinging to the past and asking for Dale Tallon and Joel Quenneville to come back? I know many Hawks fans who also wish Stan Bowman was gone by now (and he should be for quite a few reasons).

I guess we should sweep the problems created and instead focus our ire on Rob Blake, because he’s the evil villain you guys still haven’t gotten over since 2001. And you’re telling others to get over it. That’s rather comical and hypocritical of you.

I'm not advocating for bringing DL back so I'm not clinging to the past although it seems like the Kings are with their hiring policies.

As for Blake, I hope he turns out to be awesome. The thing with the DL bashing is that some of you seem to really enjoy it, bashing a guy that put together pretty much the only bright spot in this team's history in favor of pumping up a guy that never won anything with the Kings and actually actively stopped them from winning. It's pretty wild to me. Like, it is easy to understand why someone doesn't like Rob Blake but it is strange to me that some Kings fans enjoy roasting Lombardi so much.

 

[unicornpig]

lombardi did himself in, no better evidence with watching one of his trades lift the cup twice.

 

[DoktorJeep]

At the end of the day, DL was fired due to 3 straight years with no playoff success. If the Kings made the playoffs all 3 years, or went on one deep run during that period, I think he would have kept his job longer. But I agree that what caused DL to make mistakes was not adjusting his roster construction philosophy enough to adapt to a changing style of game. So one way or another he was out the door.

I also think he lost a political battle with Luc in front of AEG. My guess is Beckerman decided to listen to the party telling him they could get back to contender status without significant change. Maybe Dan was fatigued from 3 straight years of not hitting his numbers with Uncle Phil, and he needed to make a change for the appearances of action. He probably was unprepared for making a sudden decision after the season, and hired the least risky option.

Every GM makes mistakes, but few win 2 cups in 3 years. As shown, that doesn’t make you untouchable. But to point at issues like bad contracts, trades, and player decisions is like pointing out venial sins for someone on the way to sainthood. In 100 years, no one is going to point out what a disaster the Lucic trade was, except maybe HF Boards.

Luc and Blake still have some road to run before we can write their history. The early chapters are inconsistent at best. Given their inexperience, that’s not unexpected. And the NHL is different nowadays. The league is getting younger and more competitive at the same time. It’s easier for kids to break in, but harder for them to stick because teams with an average age closer to 27 years old than 30 don’t mail in as many regular season shifts.

Maybe Blake being a young GM gives him fresh perspective on how to build a roster in today’s NHL. So far, all’s he’s done with the big club is take a lot of time making moves around the edges. He’s constructed a roster with a gaping hole in the middle of the age chart with respect to NHL quality players. And because he’s packed the roster with tweeners on one way deals he only has one or two spots available to fill with a quality acquisition. Maybe this is one cost of being patient and selecting high draft picks three years running.

He’s come out and said the Kings need to improve next year. And he outright agreed with Doughty carte blanche. So it’s fair to infer that Blake thinks he has two of the best players in the world who are being wasted by not being in the playoffs. I think we’ll be able to read more into his mindset based on his moves this summer. I think he’s smart enough to know that a swing for the fences move isn’t likely to work given the overall state of the roster. But I don’t think Luc is smart enough to figure out how to assuage AEG and sell them on a plan that covers missing the playoffs next year.

 

[kingsfan28]

Sutter did his job and didn’t cost DL his job.

It was the core that did Lombardi in, they cycle through coaches a lot. They are ready to throw Toddfather off the boat now too.

Sutter didn't do his job in 2015 and barely did it in 2016. Who blows a 15 point division lead with 2 weeks to go, then freaks out and pushes the guys so hard the final week that the team runs out of gas before the playoffs start? Instead of cruzing into the playoffs as division champs and playing the lowest seed, he found a way to lose the lead and face a highly motivated Sharks team , who kicked our our f-ing teeth in . So what did DL do, gave him everything he wanted , including changing captains and a new 4 year deal. I've never seen a coach more checked out during the playoffs than Sutter was in SJ as the Sharks just ran over the Kings, then back up over them 2 more time, just for fun.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

As for DL, his inability to adapt fast enough to a changing league and an outdated draft philosophy hurt him badly.

Did it hurt him or did other people’s ambitions hurt him in the end? DL’s predecessor largely retained the same people and signed/traded old slow guys. Nothing changed until it was clear this core gave up. Didn’t matter who the coach was, they wanted Stevens and he was gone after a year.

 

[DryIslandBartender]

Sutter didn't do his job in 2015 and barely did it in 2016. Who blows a 15 point division lead with 2 weeks to go, then freaks out and pushes the guys so hard the final week that the team runs out of gas before the playoffs start? Instead of cruzing into the playoffs as division champs and playing the lowest seed, he found a way to lose the lead and face a highly motivated Sharks team , who kicked our our f-ing teeth in . So what did DL do, gave him everything he wanted , including changing captains and a new 4 year deal. I've never seen a coach more checked out during the playoffs than Sutter was in SJ as the Sharks just ran over the Kings, then back up over them 2 more time, just for fun.

Tough ending, no doubt.

However, the Kings hired a coach that was more hands off and had a softer tone with the players. That was Stevens, and we all saw how that ended.

At some point you have you point the finger at the core, not 4-5 different coaches.

 

[kings11]

Did it hurt him or did other people’s ambitions hurt him in the end? DL’s predecessor largely retained the same people and signed/traded old slow guys. Nothing changed until it was clear this core gave up. Didn’t matter who the coach was, they wanted Stevens and he was gone after a year.

It obviously hurt him, he traded for power and grit as the league went with speed and skill. He unfortunately gave up a winning lottery ticket in the Lucic trade and Jones has absolutely owned us since. He wanted a tough guy after drafting Drew and went against the staffs desire for some PMD… we got Teubert rather than that guy. We traded for Sekera and that hurt..
As for Blake, yeah he signed Kovy but that was just money! He and staff have drafted more high skill and character players on offense than we’ve drafted in decades. One thing people overlook is that Blake moved guys like Marty, Muzzin, Toffoli and other pieces once it was clear change was needed and all we got were more building pieces and cap space. Whose off to a better start? I’m greatly leaning towards Blake at the moment

 

[Statto]

It is easy and Lombardi did it too. He also got tons of shit while he was doing it because it is so f***ing easy to lose on purpose.

DL made the right moves after the losing on purpose and brought this pathetic organization it's best moments. The fact that so many on this board continue to stone him for not winning a third title or some shit is f***ing insane.

We have three straight years of awesomeness in basically 40 years of darkness but some of you want to say a guy in Rob Blake is a better GM than the dude who made that happen. Just absolutely mind-blowing.

This isn't an argument for not firing DL but rather a pull your head out of your asses. Oh he traded for Lucic!! f***ing Christ. How about 2012 and '14 being the best times of your lives?

It's ungrateful trash behavior. He's dead, assholes. Hasn't been the GM for years. Yet your still roasting the only guy that made it ever happen for us. We don't even deserve to experience it again if this is how we treat the ones that make it happen.

I don’t think anyone with any objectivity can say Blake is better than DL. He may prove to be in the future but he’s still halfway through the cycle to judge.

I would agree that people underestimate that keeping picks is easy, because it’s not. The hard bit with the approach to a rebuild we are taking is staying patient and not pulling the trigger too early. That’s what gets lots of GM’s into trouble.

You can’t compare Blake to Lombardi at this time as the approach is so different. However Lombardi won 2 cups, so he got the important bit right. So to be better than Lombardi
Blake needs to win a cup or two, then retool and stay competitive. Quite frankly I’d take one cup and Blake also screwing up the retool.

 

[Mats26]

I don't believe right now that Blake has the vision to lead this team to a cup, regardless of the outcome I think he will leave the team in a much better state for the next GM to take it to contender status. If\when a new culture is formed that's when we'll see what he can do to get us back in contention. The hard part is ending the rebuilding and starting the build up phase to contender status. Can he do it without Kopi, Quick and Doughty in their prime years, going to be difficult for sure but not impossible

 

[bland]

Sutter did his job and didn’t cost DL his job.

It was the core that did Lombardi in, they cycle through coaches a lot. They are ready to throw Toddfather off the boat now too.

The veteran players Lombardi brought in were all willing to put up with, and thrive under Sutter. Once their influence and stability left, the core showed their soft underbellies and quit. Same thing they did under Murray, same thing they did under Stevens, and they never even bothered taking Desjardins seriously.

That being said, Terry Murray should have been let go after losing to San Jose. He had plateaued, and I suspect the only reason he was retained into the next year was that Sutter wasn't ready to get back into coaching yet.

Sutter had run his course as well, and a lot of players were unhappy under him. I don't know that keeping him around for another year would have been productive, but I suspect that Lombardi dug his heels in there not only for his friends sake, but also to keep the players in line. Meanwhile Robitaille was maneuvering behind him, negotiating an extension with Kopitar that Lombardi was hesitant to offer.

Quitting on Stevens is the one I really don't get. They got everything they wanted, but, just like it is easier to win once you have already won, its easier to quit once you have already quit without ramifications.

 

[LAKings88]

One thing I have learned is the it’s not a stagnant world in hockey. Players have shelf lives emotionally too. A gm needs to have a bit of ruthlessness too.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I think if Lombardi became GM of the Kings all of a sudden, he would do exactly what a lot of the people who are his biggest supporters, are vehemently opposed to. He would probably move a massive amount of futures to load up and try and make a cup run.

 

[BigKing]

It obviously hurt him, he traded for power and grit as the league went with speed and skill. He unfortunately gave up a winning lottery ticket in the Lucic trade and Jones has absolutely owned us since. He wanted a tough guy after drafting Drew and went against the staffs desire for some PMD… we got Teubert rather than that guy. We traded for Sekera and that hurt..
As for Blake, yeah he signed Kovy but that was just money! He and staff have drafted more high skill and character players on offense than we’ve drafted in decades. One thing people overlook is that Blake moved guys like Marty, Muzzin, Toffoli and other pieces once it was clear change was needed and all we got were more building pieces and cap space. Whose off to a better start? I’m greatly leaning towards Blake at the moment

Not sure how Blake has drafted more character guys when that is one of the biggest critiques of Lombardi's drafting: taking character over pure skill.

Who is overlooking that he blew the team up? The majority of people that don't like him are happy that he went with a rebuild so it isn't being overlooked at all.

As for who is off to a better start, Lombardi drafted Doughty in his 3rd draft so he kind of wins by default. Love the guy, but Mikey Anderson is probably Blake's most impactful draft pick so far. To say Blake is off to a better start is to buy completely in to the ceiling of the prospects while being able to actually look at the results of Lombardi's prospect pool, a pool that was also ranked Top 5. Regardless, they both purposely iced bad teams in order to draft high. The real comparisons are going to come when Blake starts to try to win games again and the moves he makes to do so.