Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Rumors/Roster Discussion Part II

[King'sPawn]

Without percentages, I see the likeliness as:
- Don’t care
- Don’t care
- Don’t care
- Don’t care
- Don’t care
- Everyone else

Elaborate way to say you don't care. Good for you to have other interests, and I encourage you to pursue them.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Vegas made it to the finals their first year. Just saying.

If LA had any kind of of power play I still think they could have won that series.

Big part why I think they signed Kovy.

Still think Blake is looking for that shot on the PP.

 

[bland]

Putting MacD second and citing the connection Francis has to his father along with the "entertainment value" seems like a real stretch. If this was the late 90's expansion era then, sure, get yourself a legit HW enforcer but that doesn't seem necessary for fan support now.

As a Wagner apologist, it wouldn't be shocking to see him be the pick. He is one of the fastest skaters in the league, has size and will hit. He will generate breakaways and could possibly score more frequently on them like he did in 2018.

Vegas drafted Thorburn and Engelland.

Every expansion team takes a tough guy.

The thing that pisses me off is that the Mayor mentioned it. I thought I had an exclusive "I told ya so" all lined up.

 

[Reclamation Project]

Engelland was also a Vegas resident too.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Only thing I really remember from that series was that I went into it surprised that Vegas's first line had finished the season as the most dominant line in the NHL that year and I was curious to see if Kopitar could shut them down. Well the two lines pretty much cancelled each other out. But the Kings just couldn't score. Vegas was the better team.

Yeah that whole season, short playoffs included, were the Kopitar, Doughty, and Quick show. They nullified the hottest line in the NHL until Toby mother f***ing Reider had to play with them for 5 seconds. Doughty in particular was near 60% CF for the series when, in his absence, the top pairing was 25% and 33%. Kopitar had what would have been the highlight reel goal of his career stopped by Fleury after dancing every VGK player on the ice, often fighting through several checks. obviously results matter, but I cannot get on board with the idea that Kopitar and Doughty were 'invisible' in that series, they were just about the only competent, competitive players on the ice, and not just in a 'big fish in a small pond' way relative to a shitty team, but legitimately elite vs. a Cup finalist.

 

[BigKing]

Vegas drafted Thorburn and Engelland.

Every expansion team takes a tough guy.

The thing that pisses me off is that the Mayor mentioned it. I thought I had an exclusive "I told ya so" all lined up.

Feel like Engelland was a better player though. I don't recall Francis rolling with an enforcer in Carolina.

Kings aren't offering much though so it makes sense if Francis is determined to have a HW. Rough tape last season though.

 

[kingsfan28]

To be clear, despite his many mistakes, I love Lombardi and one day I hope he does get another chance - even if it's with us. But, this is Blake's team and he deserves the same opportunities/patience that Lombardi got. And don't tell me Blake is waaaay worse so far, because he isn't. His Kovalchuck is Deano's Cloutier, his Stevens is Lombardi's Crawford. If anything I'd say up to this point Blake has done a better job (especially if his draft picks turn out as projected) BUT the next step is where most GM's fail and where Lombardi excelled, putting it all together into a winning team. I just get tired of the Blake bashing, over the past three years he has done everything the way I would have wanted a GM to handle this team. I think our two worst years behind us and they were boring pandemic years anyway.

For now, DL is the best we ever had (despite the end), but if you're a real fan of this team you should want Blake to eclipse that, not fail because you're still butt hurt he took off the "C' for a couple of days or whatever the hell it was we were all mad about.

Solid take, but I will disagree that Kovalchuck was a mistake. All it cost us was cash and cap space, nothing else. no 2nd round picks or a 4 yr extension coming off major knee surgery, just dollars. Coming off a playoff round where we scored 4 goals , he was worth the shot. Nobody could've predicted our inability to pass the puck to him, [which still exist today] or the fraud coach willy d would bench him with no real explanation.

 

[kingsfan28]

Really? I remember it as Fleur just shutting us down and us shutting them down slightly less. Obviously, more offense was needed. Maybe I'm just remembering it from a homer-ish pov. We were swept after all.

One team scored 7 goals in 4 games, the other scored 4 and was swept. It also didn't help that the league was doing everything they could to keep their shinny new, feel good team going. Worst officiated series i've ever seen. Doughty suspended, yeah, ok.

 

[Reclamation Project]

I like it, I love it, the Kings need more of it!

 

[kingsfan28]

Hoven has the two likeliest picks being Wagner, then MacDermid:

Prediction: Which Player Will the Seattle Kraken Select From LA Kings

That would be worth 5 more wins if mcD wasn't on the ice and the odds of a skating chimp scoring on a breakaway are about the same as Wagner.

 

[BigKing]

Solid take, but I will disagree that Kovalchuck was a mistake. All it cost us was cash and cap space, nothing else. no 2nd round picks or a 4 yr extension coming off major knee surgery, just dollars. Coming off a playoff round where we scored 4 goals , he was worth the shot. Nobody could've predicted our inability to pass the puck to him, [which still exist today] or the fraud coach willy d would bench him with no real explanation.

Interesting take that it wasn't a mistake.

 

[kingsfan28]

Interesting take that it wasn't a mistake.

Like i said, I've never saw it as one. We needed a scorer, he could still score, all it cost was some cap space and cash. He didn't steal anyones spot, and it should've worked. It sucked it didn't but thats the way the season went. The toughest part was our inability to get him the puck on the pp. kopitar>doughty>kovi>>>>>one-timer. That's how it should've gone. What we got was Kopi and Doughty playing hand grenade hockey puck, fumbling passes back and forth, and when they final did make a clean pass, it took so long the lane was closed and no shots! Stamkos, and Ovi set up at the exact same spot, waiting for the pass, the entire league knows its coming and they get them the puck without issues time after time. Watching the Kings pass the puck on the pp was just embarrassing at times.

 

[illegal_stick]

Solid take, but I will disagree that Kovalchuck was a mistake. All it cost us was cash and cap space, nothing else. no 2nd round picks or a 4 yr extension coming off major knee surgery, just dollars. Coming off a playoff round where we scored 4 goals , he was worth the shot. Nobody could've predicted our inability to pass the puck to him, [which still exist today] or the fraud coach willy d would bench him with no real explanation.

Very true. A DL move (near the end) would've been to get a player like Kovalchuck who was actually playing and give up whatever was necessary. Blake is much more protective of our draft picks and prospects. As others have stated, Blake was with DL for a lot of it, so while I won't go as far as others and blame him for it (DL was GM - they were his final calls), he did have the benefit (as all of us do) of watching DL's mistakes and learning from them,

 

[KingsFan7824]

3 reasons they signed Kovalchuk; Kopitar played at an actual league MVP level, Doughty was great, and Quick did have a solid season + playoff.

Had the 17-18 team collapsed, which knowing this roster it should have with no Carter for 50 games, then there's no Kovalchuk. But, as was so often the case after June 2014, any bit of hope the team gave either DL or Blake, was quickly dashed the moment either of them even slightly invested in the team. They were this close to doing that in 2012 too, which also would've meant no 2014.

The Kings glory days were nothing like TB or Chi. The Kings constantly lived on the razor's edge. Even going up 3-0 in every series, many of those games could've gone either way.

 

[kingsfan28]

3 reasons they signed Kovalchuk; Kopitar played at an actual league MVP level, Doughty was great, and Quick did have a solid season + playoff.

Had the 17-18 team collapsed, which knowing this roster it should have with no Carter for 50 games, then there's no Kovalchuk. But, as was so often the case after June 2014, any bit of hope the team gave either DL or Blake, was quickly dashed the moment either of them even slightly invested in the team. They were this close to doing that in 2012 too, which also would've meant no 2014.

The Kings glory days were nothing like TB or Chi. The Kings constantly lived on the razor's edge. Even going up 3-0 in every series, many of those games could've gone either way.

You could say the same for any team in any series. A bounce here, an injured goalie or star player goes out and Tampa doesn't have their run in 2020 or get past the 2nd round this year. I think all teams that have successful runs play on the razors edge to win championships, just some are deeper and it isn't as glaring.

 

[BigKing]

Like i said, I've never saw it as one. We needed a scorer, he could still score, all it cost was some cap space and cash. He didn't steal anyones spot, and it should've worked. It sucked it didn't but thats the way the season went. The toughest part was our inability to get him the puck on the pp. kopitar>doughty>kovi>>>>>one-timer. That's how it should've gone. What we got was Kopi and Doughty playing hand grenade hockey puck, fumbling passes back and forth, and when they final did make a clean pass, it took so long the lane was closed and no shots! Stamkos, and Ovi set up at the exact same spot, waiting for the pass, the entire league knows its coming and they get them the puck without issues time after time. Watching the Kings pass the puck on the pp was just embarrassing at times.

Still an interesting take. Blake had to give him one more year because other teams were smarter so, right away, the guy is only coming here for the pay day. A guy that was old as shit already and hadn't been in the league for a few years. It was a desperate move and, no, it "shouldn't have worked" because the guy wasn't very good anymore and Management should have known that he wasn't a fit with Kopitar. Yes, the Kings had (have) a problem with scoring but part of the 2018 "success" was keeping the puck out of the net. Kovalchuk is a net minus so him scoring 20 doesn't help if the Kings give up 20 more than before.

As for "only cap space and cash", let's ask Blake's boss if it was a mistake. At the beginning of a rebuild, let's buy a 1st round pick from Toronto for a few million dollars...oh we can't because AEG is paying Kovalchuk to go away.

You can be fine with the reasoning behind it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake. The proof is in the pudding just like DL trading for Sekera. I understand the reasoning but it ultimately was a mistake due to the outcome.

Very true. A DL move (near the end) would've been to get a player like Kovalchuck who was actually playing and give up whatever was necessary. Blake is much more protective of our draft picks and prospects. As others have stated, Blake was with DL for a lot of it, so while I won't go as far as others and blame him for it (DL was GM - they were his final calls), he did have the benefit (as all of us do) of watching DL's mistakes and learning from them,

Except DL could have had him for free when he was a much better player but didn't want to do what was necessary to get him. As for Blake being much more protective of draft picks and prospects, that only happened once the team imploded. He was all set to move some of that before moving to Plan B in Kovalchuk. Blake is in the midst of a rebuild: Lombardi also hoarded picks and prospects during his rebuild. It's what you do in a rebuild. The only thing you can say about Blake is that he didn't add much at the TDL in 2018 but, if Carter isn't added off of IR then I think he dabbles much more.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Still an interesting take. Blake had to give him one more year because other teams were smarter so, right away, the guy is only coming here for the pay day.

You can be fine with the reasoning behind it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake. The proof is in the pudding just like DL trading for Sekera. I understand the reasoning but it ultimately was a mistake due to the outcome.

So when DL had to give Mitchell an extra year to get him here, was that a guy coming off a concussion looking for a pay day?

The outcome determines whether or not a move is good or bad? Basically, winning cures all.

In a classroom, everyone can get an A on the test if they study. In sports, you get one winner. So are moves made by non-winning teams inherently mistakes?

 

[DoktorJeep]

Still an interesting take. Blake had to give him one more year because other teams were smarter so, right away, the guy is only coming here for the pay day. A guy that was old as shit already and hadn't been in the league for a few years. It was a desperate move and, no, it "shouldn't have worked" because the guy wasn't very good anymore and Management should have known that he wasn't a fit with Kopitar. Yes, the Kings had (have) a problem with scoring but part of the 2018 "success" was keeping the puck out of the net. Kovalchuk is a net minus so him scoring 20 doesn't help if the Kings give up 20 more than before.

As for "only cap space and cash", let's ask Blake's boss if it was a mistake. At the beginning of a rebuild, let's buy a 1st round pick from Toronto for a few million dollars...oh we can't because AEG is paying Kovalchuk to go away.

You can be fine with the reasoning behind it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake. The proof is in the pudding just like DL trading for Sekera. I understand the reasoning but it ultimately was a mistake due to the outcome.



Except DL could have had him for free when he was a much better player but didn't want to do what was necessary to get him. As for Blake being much more protective of draft picks and prospects, that only happened once the team imploded. He was all set to move some of that before moving to Plan B in Kovalchuk. Blake is in the midst of a rebuild: Lombardi also hoarded picks and prospects during his rebuild. It's what you do in a rebuild. The only thing you can say about Blake is that he didn't add much at the TDL in 2018 but, if Carter isn't added off of IR then I think he dabbles much more.

That summer was a weak UFA crop at forward and especially left wing.

2018 NHL Free Agents Tracker

The only guy who is still good in hindsight is Duclair and that’s a stretch. JVR and Neil would have been worse contracts and it’s doubtful JVR would have signed here. So it would have been better to do nothing, but Blake decided he had to do something and went with a bad option as it turns out.

 

[BigKing]

So when DL had to give Mitchell an extra year to get him here, was that a guy coming off a concussion looking for a pay day?

The outcome determines whether or not a move is good or bad? Basically, winning cures all.

In a classroom, everyone can get an A on the test if they study. In sports, you get one winner. So are moves made by non-winning teams inherently mistakes?

Mitchell was a guy coming off a serious concussion so there were legit injury concerns: Kovalchuk had Kovalchuk concerns.

It is a results based business, is it not? Lombardi traded for Lucic and got a good season out of him and the team but it was a mistake because it got them nowhere and hurt the future. If they win the Cup, it was a great move, future be damned.

All teams make both good and bad moves. Kings trade for Laperriere and Norstrom. Great move. Never won anything but that is a great trade.

Regardless, the argument isn't whether it was "good or bad" but rather K28's assertion that it wasn't a mistake. The results say it was a mistake. I can sit here and tell you that the 2015 team missed the playoffs by one point after winning Cups two-out-of-three years so Lombardi went all in with the Lucic trade because the team's window was supposedly open. Good move because you've got to go for it while you still can but a giant mistake per the result. Most everyone will tell you that it was no a good move to begin with and it was a mistake. So, like, how ever you want to slice it when it comes to judging the thought process but the outcome does ultimately determine if it was a mistake or not.

 

[illegal_stick]

Still an interesting take. Blake had to give him one more year because other teams were smarter so, right away, the guy is only coming here for the pay day. A guy that was old as shit already and hadn't been in the league for a few years. It was a desperate move and, no, it "shouldn't have worked" because the guy wasn't very good anymore and Management should have known that he wasn't a fit with Kopitar. Yes, the Kings had (have) a problem with scoring but part of the 2018 "success" was keeping the puck out of the net. Kovalchuk is a net minus so him scoring 20 doesn't help if the Kings give up 20 more than before.

As for "only cap space and cash", let's ask Blake's boss if it was a mistake. At the beginning of a rebuild, let's buy a 1st round pick from Toronto for a few million dollars...oh we can't because AEG is paying Kovalchuk to go away.

You can be fine with the reasoning behind it, but it doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake. The proof is in the pudding just like DL trading for Sekera. I understand the reasoning but it ultimately was a mistake due to the outcome.



xcept DL could have had him for free when he was a much better player but didn't want to do what was necessary to get him. As for Blake being much more protective of draft picks and prospects, that only happened once the team imploded. He was all set to move some of that before moving to Plan B in Kovalchuk. Blake is in the midst of a rebuild: Lombardi also hoarded picks and prospects during his rebuild. It's what you do in a rebuild. The only thing you can say about Blake is that he didn't add much at the TDL in 2018 but, if Carter isn't added off of IR then I think he dabbles much more.

Seems like your only complaints about Blake are hypotheticals - things he might have done. He HAS hoarded the picks, so he gets credit for that. He DIDN'T do anything dumb at the 2018 TDL, so he gets credit for that.

That's no different than me saying Lombardi WOULDN'T have got Doughty, if he had hired a better coach or got a better goalie. And no Doughty likely means no cups. So, am I supposed to say DL is lucky he got the cups - NO. He gets the credit for the moves he made.

Not saying this about you specifically because I don't know how you feel about the guy, but it sure feels like people don't want Blake to succeed. He hasn't made any major errors yet, in my view. Now the easy part is over and we see how good he really is. I hope he proves to be great at this part of the job - why do I get the feeling I'm in the minority that want this?

 

[BigKing]

Seems like your only complaints about Blake are hypotheticals - things he might have done. He HAS hoarded the picks, so he gets credit for that. He DIDN'T do anything dumb at the 2018 TDL, so he gets credit for that.

That's no different than me saying Lombardi WOULDN'T have got Doughty, if he had hired a better coach or got a better goalie. And no Doughty likely means no cups. So, am I supposed to say DL is lucky he got the cups - NO. He gets the credit for the moves he made.

Not saying this about you specifically because I don't know how you feel about the guy, but it sure feels like people don't want Blake to succeed. He hasn't made any major errors yet, in my view. Now the easy part is over and we see how good he really is. I hope he proves to be great at this part of the job - why do I get the feeling I'm in the minority that want this?

I want Blake to succeed and I've said it a hundred times. My complaints about Blake are what he did do from Day 1 up until the Muzzin trade. During this rebuild, I am definitely concerned about T-Mac and even more concerned about what type of identity this team is supposed to have because it is the softest group of Kings players I've ever watched. I'm happy to have a top-flight prospect pool but I've also been here before and seen how many of the highly-touted guys flame out so I'm not coronating him yet.

As for hypotheticals, I believe you are the one saying that Lombardi would have traded good assets for a 37 year old Kovalchuk.

"Hasn't made any major errors" ignores his first year and a half on the job. He's getting every chance to have that be a footnote like DL's Crawford experience but ignoring it is willful blindness to support Blake. You can like what he's doing and still say he screwed up at the start: he'd probably tell you that himself if asked.

 

[bland]

Solid take, but I will disagree that Kovalchuck was a mistake. All it cost us was cash and cap space, nothing else. no 2nd round picks or a 4 yr extension coming off major knee surgery, just dollars. Coming off a playoff round where we scored 4 goals , he was worth the shot. Nobody could've predicted our inability to pass the puck to him, [which still exist today] or the fraud coach willy d would bench him with no real explanation.

Nobody?

It was the most predictable failure imaginable. It was discussed in dozens of threads and unfolded exactly as described.

 

[RaymondReddington]

I like it, I love it, the Kings need more of it!

Nice Tim McGraw reference! Kudos...

 

[illegal_stick]

I want Blake to succeed and I've said it a hundred times. My complaints about Blake are what he did do from Day 1 up until the Muzzin trade. During this rebuild, I am definitely concerned about T-Mac and even more concerned about what type of identity this team is supposed to have because it is the softest group of Kings players I've ever watched. I'm happy to have a top-flight prospect pool but I've also been here before and seen how many of the highly-touted guys flame out so I'm not coronating him yet.

As for hypotheticals, I believe you are the one saying that Lombardi would have traded good assets for a 37 year old Kovalchuk.

"Hasn't made any major errors" ignores his first year and a half on the job. He's getting every chance to have that be a footnote like DL's Crawford experience but ignoring it is willful blindness to support Blake. You can like what he's doing and still say he screwed up at the start: he'd probably tell you that himself if asked.

I'm a Lombardi guy first and foremost - he was the man, even with all his mess ups in the end, I'd happily take him back if Blake messed up.

As for Blake, I don't think that first year and a half is anything that has dearly cost the franchise. As I said, at this point, he's hoarded the picks and prospects and that really is the easy part (as long as ownership lets you lose a lot,) but credit where it is due. So if you're saying Blake doesn't deserve to be exalted at this point, no argument here. I just feel he rarely gets the benefit of the doubt around here and I wonder if it's because people don't like the job he's doing or people don't like Rob Blake (and I was squarely in that camp for many, many years.)

 

[BigKing]

I'm a Lombardi guy first and foremost - he was the man, even with all his mess ups in the end, I'd happily take him back if Blake messed up.

As for Blake, I don't think that first year and a half is anything that has dearly cost the franchise. As I said, at this point, he's hoarded the picks and prospects and that really is the easy part (as long as ownership lets you lose a lot,) but credit where it is due. So if you're saying Blake doesn't deserve to be exalted at this point, no argument here. I just feel he rarely gets the benefit of the doubt around here and I wonder if it's because people don't like the job he's doing or people don't like Rob Blake (and I was squarely in that camp for many, many years.)

Well, he has no history of being a GM so it is difficult to give him the benefit of the doubt. Tack on how easy it is to dislike him and you will have a lot of people not give him the benefit of the doubt.

Regardless of whether you do or don't, however, the fact remains that he thought this team was a contender and was obviously quite wrong. Kudos to reversing course quickly and blowing it up but it doesn't mean that he wasn't wrong to begin with. And you know...there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that.