Speculation: 2020-21 LA Kings News/Roster/Rumors Discussion Part VI

[SFKingshomer]

It's really quite simple. If he tells the STH this summer that the rebuild is behind schedule and explains why then the discussion about improving the roster for next year is over. He can set a new goal for making the playoffs and it can be 29-30 for all I care as long as he is honest. Then he can explain what the team is going to do with Kopitar and Doughty...trade them or make them suffer through the rest of the rebuild. All I'm doing is holding Blake accountable for his goal of returning to the playoffs in 21-22.

The irony is that if he says that he's going to make big changes this summer with the goal of returning to the playoffs next year as originally promised, this board is going to erupt in anger.

When did he say that was his goal?

 

[Schmooley]

It's really quite simple. If he tells the STH this summer that the rebuild is behind schedule and explains why then the discussion about improving the roster for next year is over. He can set a new goal for making the playoffs and it can be 29-30 for all I care as long as he is honest. Then he can explain what the team is going to do with Kopitar and Doughty...trade them or make them suffer through the rest of the rebuild. All I'm doing is holding Blake accountable for his goal of returning to the playoffs in 21-22.

The irony is that if he says that he's going to make big changes this summer with the goal of returning to the playoffs next year as originally promised, this board is going to erupt in anger.

What do you think they should do? Trade some of Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Vilardi, Bjornfot and a couple depth roster players to go all in the next 3 years?
Just curious what it is you have in mind.

 

[tomd]

What do you think they should do? Trade some of Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Vilardi, Bjornfot and a couple depth roster players to go all in the next 3 years?
Just curious what it is you have in mind.

I'll leave that up to Blake...that's his job. But if he reiterates that the goal for 21-22 is to make the playoffs then I assume he'll do what is necessary to try to make it happen. And if the team doesn't improve (or worse yet regresses) next year then AEG should seriously consider removing him. Five years of non-performance is enough at that point.

 

[SFKingshomer]

What do you think they should do? Trade some of Byfield, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Vilardi, Bjornfot and a couple depth roster players to go all in the next 3 years?
Just curious what it is you have in mind.

Trade all those guys for Chandler Stephenson and Sam Bennett.

 

[BigKing]

It's the ONLY relevant thing! It's what Blake's full intention was! If Blake had said this was going to be a 7 year rebuild then we'd be having a totally different conversation about the next couple of years. But he pointed to NEXT YEAR as the goal for returning to the playoffs. How is that irrelevant??

It's been mentioned before but, in regards to Blake's statement that the playoffs were the goal this year, of course he is going to say that at the start of the season since he isn't going to just let everyone know they can suck ass and it is fine. Realistically though, he did nothing to improve the team so it was going to take a giant leap from the kids on this team for that to happen. It didn't happen so here we are.

Now, with the actual goal being next season I think you just need to read the tea leaves. It's pretty much being said from Kings sources like it is a formality that next year's team is going to look a lot different.

Blake's got a 1st, 2 2nds and two 3rds in this draft. Prospects. Cap space. Let's see what happens. It's exciting and frightening at the same time, mostly the latter.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Anyone who took Blake’s words at face value has not been around the game long. It takes way longer than 2-3 years for a rebuild when your best prospects aren’t even on the team yet.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Okay, gonna say this one more time, really loudly for the folks trying to purge Kopitar and Doughty while being deliberately ignorant of this fact:

The Kings final salary cap this year was 72 million. That's with 48 contracts.

The salary floor is 60.2 million.

You remove both Kopitar and Doughty from this roster...and you're forced to spend 10 more million on schlubs just to fill in the blanks.

DOUGHTY AND KOPITARS CONTRACTS ARE NOT A PROBLEM AND THEY ARE NOT PREVENTING LITERALLY ANYTHING. Full stop.

There is not a currently better way to spend that money than to insulate the growing youth with an all-situations 1C and 1D until they are ready.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Okay, gonna say this one more time, really loudly for the folks trying to purge Kopitar and Doughty while being deliberately ignorant of this fact:

The Kings final salary cap this year was 72 million. That's with 48 contracts.

The salary floor is 60.2 million.

You remove both Kopitar and Doughty from this roster...and you're forced to spend 10 more million on schlubs just to fill in the blanks.

DOUGHTY AND KOPITARS CONTRACTS ARE NOT A PROBLEM AND THEY ARE NOT PREVENTING LITERALLY ANYTHING. Full stop.

There is not a currently better way to spend that money than to insulate the growing youth with an all-situations 1C and 1D until they are ready.

Not to mention that $9.25 million (in the form of Phaneuf's buyout and Kovalchuk's termination) comes off the books after this season is over. The Kings will be at $61 million (i.e., barely above the cap floor) this summer with Kopitar and Doughty on the books and only a few roster spots to fill.

 

[Schmooley]

Okay, gonna say this one more time, really loudly for the folks trying to purge Kopitar and Doughty while being deliberately ignorant of this fact:

The Kings final salary cap this year was 72 million. That's with 48 contracts.

The salary floor is 60.2 million.

You remove both Kopitar and Doughty from this roster...and you're forced to spend 10 more million on schlubs just to fill in the blanks.

DOUGHTY AND KOPITARS CONTRACTS ARE NOT A PROBLEM AND THEY ARE NOT PREVENTING LITERALLY ANYTHING. Full stop.

There is not a currently better way to spend that money than to insulate the growing youth with an all-situations 1C and 1D until they are ready.

I could see Drew asking for a trade if things dont improve in the next season or two.

 

[tomd]

Okay, gonna say this one more time, really loudly for the folks trying to purge Kopitar and Doughty while being deliberately ignorant of this fact:

The Kings final salary cap this year was 72 million. That's with 48 contracts.

The salary floor is 60.2 million.

You remove both Kopitar and Doughty from this roster...and you're forced to spend 10 more million on schlubs just to fill in the blanks.

DOUGHTY AND KOPITARS CONTRACTS ARE NOT A PROBLEM AND THEY ARE NOT PREVENTING LITERALLY ANYTHING. Full stop.

There is not a currently better way to spend that money than to insulate the growing youth with an all-situations 1C and 1D until they are ready.

Totally agree.

Hope you would also agree that when you have the rare luxury of a HOF 1c and a HOF 1D you should do your best to try to compete with them or trade them to get assets while they still have value. The worst option is keeping them around while doing a long rebuild.

 

[Docgonzo]

Okay, gonna say this one more time, really loudly for the folks trying to purge Kopitar and Doughty while being deliberately ignorant of this fact:

The Kings final salary cap this year was 72 million. That's with 48 contracts.

The salary floor is 60.2 million.

You remove both Kopitar and Doughty from this roster...and you're forced to spend 10 more million on schlubs just to fill in the blanks.

DOUGHTY AND KOPITARS CONTRACTS ARE NOT A PROBLEM AND THEY ARE NOT PREVENTING LITERALLY ANYTHING. Full stop.

There is not a currently better way to spend that money than to insulate the growing youth with an all-situations 1C and 1D until they are ready.

The funny part is, who could they have signed if they didn’t keep Kopitar and Doughty? Best UFA was Tavares and he wasn’t going to come to a bottom dweller. And what prospects did they have that they could trade and acquire someone.

People get so wrapped up in salary cap like it’s their money paying the contracts. If AEG didn’t want to pay them, they’d be gone.

 

[Statto]

It's been mentioned before but, in regards to Blake's statement that the playoffs were the goal this year, of course he is going to say that at the start of the season since he isn't going to just let everyone know they can suck ass and it is fine. Realistically though, he did nothing to improve the team so it was going to take a giant leap from the kids on this team for that to happen. It didn't happen so here we are.

Now, with the actual goal being next season I think you just need to read the tea leaves. It's pretty much being said from Kings sources like it is a formality that next year's team is going to look a lot different.

Blake's got a 1st, 2 2nds and two 3rds in this draft. Prospects. Cap space. Let's see what happens. It's exciting and frightening at the same time, mostly the latter.

The play-offs have to be the goal every year and to set anything else as the target for the team is unacceptable. I also think the context of the divisional set-up influenced making that statement public as it’s what gave us a chance. The talk about our chances hinging on our series against Minnesota and they have been far better than most people expected. Had they been at a level that people anticipated then we should been in the mix much later in the season. We then had some awful performances against the Ducks and San Jose and in those games I think we’d mostly agree the team underperformed (I’ll come back to this). Losing Roy and Walker together the way we did was also a blow where we didn’t have the depth or experience to cope. So thinking about all of that, I don’t think declaring the season goal as making the play-offs was ridiculous at all. Without the timing of those injuries and Minnesota being so much better than anticipated we could easily have been in the mix until the final couple of games, so I can see why they felt it was a sensible target. I say that even though I’ve maintained throughout the season that we’d ultimately fall short of that target and I’d bet they felt they had something like a 1 in 3 chance at best (that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be the aim).

The concern is the way we have lost some of the late season games and what seems to be some sort of ‘heart’ issue on the roster. That’s were the soul searching has to happen and the organisation has to make sure they have a clear understanding of what the problem actually was. Reports indicate that the culture down in Ontario has been pretty good, so whilst I’m not against bringing in a ‘glue guy’ from outside the solution may well exist from within. It will be an intriguing off season. Whatever happens a meaningful run at a play-off berth has to take place.

 

[DoktorJeep]

The more money you pay a player the larger the pressure on the Coach to maximize that resources usage. The Kings may have cap space, but there are built in blockers to ice time for every dollar of guaranteed money. It’s why Amadio was utilized to the max of his salary and prospects were sent to the reign to make $35k a year.

As for Eichel, I don’t see Buffalo moving him this offseason. I think they kiss and make up with the player, it’s the least risky move for a rookie GM who was trying to make the playoffs at the start of the season. He’s got time left for the NTC to kick in and making a trade while he’s hurt lowers the returns.

And if / when he gets traded, I think he moves for players who can help now versus futures. If Nashville offered Johansen and Ellis, they’d easily fit in Eichel. So the supposed advantage of cap space doesn’t apply to the Kings or other teams with low payrolls.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Totally agree.

Hope you would also agree that when you have the rare luxury of a HOF 1c and a HOF 1D you should do your best to try to compete with them or trade them to get assets while they still have value. The worst option is keeping them around while doing a long rebuild.

In your opinion.

In my opinion, there's no one I want Byfield to learn from more than Kopitar. There's no one I want Bjornfot to learn from more than Doughty.

The alternative is move them and try to meet the cap floor with some other jackass UFA merc who will moonlight as 1C and/or 1D to even more hilarious self destruction.

Trade Kopi and sign who, Stepan? Stastny? You want to talk about gutless that's a huge downgrade in every way.

Trade Doughty and sign who, Edler? Hjalmarsson? Goligoski? Hamilton would be great but he's not a replacement.

Cool, we saved a few million, barely met the cap floor, and now we have diet versions of Kopitar and Doughty around who couldn't even perform on or stick on their own basement teams.

 

[DoktorJeep]

In your opinion.

In my opinion, there's no one I want Byfield to learn from more than Kopitar. There's no one I want Bjornfot to learn from more than Doughty.

The alternative is move them and try to meet the cap floor with some other jackass UFA merc who will moonlight as 1C and/or 1D to even more hilarious self destruction.

Isn’t there another option available if you free up the ice time by moving your highest paid vets? You sign quality depth players who can round out the lines and also teach the kids who are given front line minutes. That’s literally what the Kings did with the previous batch of kids who turned into cup winners.

 

[tomd]

In your opinion.

In my opinion, there's no one I want Byfield to learn from more than Kopitar. There's no one I want Bjornfot to learn from more than Doughty.

The alternative is move them and try to meet the cap floor with some other jackass UFA merc who will moonlight as 1C and/or 1D to even more hilarious self destruction.

Trade Kopi and sign who, Stepan? Stastny? You want to talk about gutless that's a huge downgrade in every way.

Trade Doughty and sign who, Edler? Hjalmarsson? Goligoski? Hamilton would be great but he's not a replacement.

Cool, we saved a few million, barely met the cap floor, and now we have diet versions of Kopitar and Doughty around who couldn't even perform on or stick on their own basement teams.

$21 million per year to mentor two players? Are you serious??

And you think the best Blake can get for Doughty and Kopitar are scrubs? Or that Blake is so stupid that he won't spend the freed up dollars wisely? (You might be right about him being stupid I will admit).

Your whole post is defending the undefendable. If Blake is not planning to compete for the playoffs in the next 1-2 years he should be actively trying to trade both Doughty and Kopitar and get some solid assets in return. To not do so if the worst example of mismanaging assets that I can think of. Honestly, the arguments you guys are making to justify the current situation are becoming more and more outlandish daily.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Blake will go for Eichel, maybe Laine and try to improve the D but I doubt he lands anyone significant. Byfield is not going anywhere.

 

[SFKingshomer]

$21 million per year to mentor two players? Are you serious??

And you think the best Blake can get for Doughty and Kopitar are scrubs? Or that Blake is so stupid that he won't spend the freed up dollars wisely? (You might be right about him being stupid I will admit).

Your whole post is defending the undefendable. If Blake is not planning to compete for the playoffs in the next 1-2 years he should be actively trying to trade both Doughty and Kopitar and get some solid assets in return. To not do so if the worst example of mismanaging assets that I can think of. Honestly, the arguments you guys are making to justify the current situation are becoming more and more outlandish daily.

Yes like in Chicago because those 2 are tough to get value for due to their contracts. When was the last time someone making that much coin brought back a good return? No team has won a cup with multiple players making $10 plus and I think that will continue for awhile. Adding a 3rd seems stupid with where the Kings are at.

 

[tomd]

Yes like in Chicago because those 2 are tough to get value for due to their contracts. When was the last time someone making that much coin brought back a good return? No team has won a cup with multiple players making $10 plus and I think that will continue for awhile. Adding a 3rd seems stupid with where the Kings are at.

Chicago - unlike LA - has not been actively engaged in a slash and burn rebuild.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

$21 million per year to mentor two players? Are you serious??

And you think the best Blake can get for Doughty and Kopitar are scrubs? Or that Blake is so stupid that he won't spend the freed up dollars wisely? (You might be right about him being stupid I will admit).

Your whole post is defending the undefendable. If Blake is not planning to compete for the playoffs in the next 1-2 years he should be actively trying to trade both Doughty and Kopitar and get some solid assets in return. To not do so if the worst example of mismanaging assets that I can think of. Honestly, the arguments you guys are making to justify the current situation are becoming more and more outlandish daily.

How does trading Kopitar and Doughty solve the current situation? I'm not justifying it. You're just proposing a solution that doesn't solve any problem.

But Blake is planning to compete whether I agree with it or not.

And it's not just mentorship. I'm sure they've got ROI on merchandise. At least, more than they would if they signed Paul f***ing Stastny to replace Kopitar.

Let me know who you plan to use the replacement money on. As usual, you propose a problem but no solution. If Doughty and Kopitar are gone--who's 1C and 1D? you basically have unlimited money and assets. Go.

Chicago - unlike LA - has not been actively engaged in a slash and burn rebuild.

Yet--they still have Kane and Toews, right?

 

[Rusty Batch]

It's not just 21 mil to mentor young players. It's also 21 mil to fill the #1C and #1D role.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Isn’t there another option available if you free up the ice time by moving your highest paid vets? You sign quality depth players who can round out the lines and also teach the kids who are given front line minutes. That’s literally what the Kings did with the previous batch of kids who turned into cup winners.

I disagree with this approach but it makes more sense than burning it all to the ground.

I just don't want to throw Byfield into 1C and...who, Anderson? Into 1D minutes. Who are the quality depth players? That seems to be an issue too.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's not just 21 mil to mentor young players. It's also 21 mil to fill the #1C and #1D role.

Exactly.

Cool, we trade them for...more assets. Then we sign replacements to save 8 million. Cap isn't a problem. The 'slot' is. What's the point? I don't get it. More assets? Is that really a problem?

I'd much prefer Kopitar and Doughty to whatever bullshit UFA mercs are out there. Look at the list. It isn't pretty.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Chicago - unlike LA - has not been actively engaged in a slash and burn rebuild.

They didn’t have much talent to trade off. They tried a hockey deal and prospect deal that hasn’t panned out and did some minor moves. They haven’t made a major splash to go for a cup with Kane and Toews in their prime. Why? Because they didn’t have assets much like LA until now. Hawks have drafted well...

 

[tomd]

How does trading Kopitar and Doughty solve the current situation? I'm not justifying it. You're just proposing a solution that doesn't solve any problem.

But Blake is planning to compete whether I agree with it or not.

And it's not just mentorship. I'm sure they've got ROI on merchandise. At least, more than they would if they signed Paul f***ing Stastny to replace Kopitar.

Let me know who you plan to use the replacement money on. As usual, you propose a problem but no solution. If Doughty and Kopitar are gone--who's 1C and 1D? you basically have unlimited money and assets. Go.




Yet--they still have Kane and Toews, right?

Maybe we're agreeing more than we think we are...let's find out!

If Blake's goal is to make a playoff run in 21-22 then absolutely keep 11 and 8. But that also requires making some big and necessary improvements which will make some fans very unhappy.

If Blake says that realistically the team cannot compete for a playoff spot for another 2-3 years then the best option is to go all in for the future and get a boatload of assets for 11 and 8...or at least one of them. Imagine the assets Doughty could return...it would be a tanksters dream! Kopitar would return less but still would provide assets that could pay off down the road.

So to me it is one direction or the other...going the middle ground (keep 11 and 8 but don't try to make big improvements for the playoffs for another 2-3 years) is just the worst possible course. You aren't helping the present and you're taking away from the future. And worst of all, you've got the risk that 11 and 8 just emotionally give up and are actually a negative influence on the very kids they are being kept around to mentor.

I don't see how any of that is controversial but...